In the last bar of either part of the tune known as Auchadon House, Auchdon House, Auchdon House March, Haughton House, Joe Ryan, Joe Ryan's, Joe Ryan's Barn Dance, or the Kilnamona, do you play an open E or use the little finger on the A string?
It seems that this tune is called Haughton House, though I've been playing it for well over 30 years as Auchdon House, and I got it from a Glaswegian who was, at the time, living in the Faroe Islands (now lives in Sweden).
I was at Haughton House only this morning (pron. "Hochton" locally - could explain the "Auchdon").
I would use the pinky as well. If there is only one quick 'e' without another note following on the same string, or preceding it, I try to avoid the open string as it tends to ring.
As a comment on the general question (as per the title of the thread) the rule of thumb I use is, if the E is not a rhythmically or melodically important note, or an open E is too obtrusive in context, then I _might_ play it as a fingered note on the A-string, but not necessarily so. It all depends, wll.
The choice of whether to play the open string or use pinky should be based on what sound you want to express, not what your technical limitations are. Learn to do it both ways.
It depends on how you want the note to sound, which in turn depends on whether you're using that note to emphasize the pulse. In other words, is the "e" on a strong beat, or is it in a spot that doesn't want any emphasis? Do you want it to pop? Do you want it to ring? Can you leave it out without derailing the phrase? Do you want to slur onto it, or off from it?
So it's not a matter of whether one way (open string vs. pinky) is "easier" than the other, but which will be the most effective for the sound you're after. And as the sound you're after changes (the next time around that same phrase), then you'll change how you get that note.
In the case of Auchadon House, that "e" falls on the 4th beat of the first group of 1-2-3-4. So it's not a beat you'd normally emphasize in this music. But it's also the highest note in that ending phrase and it sets up the "d" that the ending resolves to. So it's wide open for your interpretation.
You can grab it with the open string, just grazing the note. (You can let it ring, or you can let your ring finger on the "d" touch the e string to stop the note.) Or you can play it with your pinky and then slur and swell onto the following downbeat "d" that starts the next group of 1-2-3-4. Or (trust me, there are more options here than you want to know) slur from the open "e" onto the following "d." Or you could even slur three notes on one bow, starting with that "e," into the "d" and down to the low "F#." In that case, playing the "e" with the pinky will give you a smoother slur (one less string crossing) across the three notes.
To me, the main question to ask here is what's you're overall take on the tune. Is it crisp and bouncy, with a bit of an almost staccato feel? Or do you want it more legato? Personally, I tend to play this with some bounce, with distinct micro-pauses around certain notes. Those crisp notes like to be set off against little slur combinations though, so it doesn't sound all samey. So sometimes I'll pop that open e string, but keep the note short. And sometimes I'll slur down from the pinky onto the "d" for a smearier sound.
I prefer playing an open string. It seems to give the note a little something that you wouldn't get by playing it with the fourth finger. Feels like it gives more lift to the tune.
Unless I have a very good reason for wanting to make that single note stand out, I would always use my pinky rather than change strings for a single open note.
"The choice of whether to play the open string or use pinky should be based on what sound you want to express, not what your technical limitations are. Learn to do it both ways.
...So it's not a matter of whether one way (open string vs. pinky) is "easier" than the other, but which will be the most effective for the sound you're after. And as the sound you're after changes (the next time around that same phrase), then you'll change how you get that note."
I find I always want to play this particular phrase the same way, and I can't get it to sound that way using the little finger. The little finger version sounds "softer", the open string sounds "crisper". And as violamike says, the open string version gives a certain lift.
I'm not sure if this represents a technical limitation on my part or not.
Years ago on this website I read a comment where somebody said how relieved he was to discover that famous fiddler X also used an open string in tune Y. I'd really like to read that thread again, but I don't have enough information to find it. If any member with a remarkably good memory can point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful and impressed.
Being almost entirely self-taught I know I have some bad habits, and the reason for this question was to identify if the open string in this particular context is one of those. From what's been said here, I'm content to carry on playing it the way I had been.
@ John Culhane, re "rule of thumb"
Well, I've been a cellist for most of my life and the left thumb is the cellist's invaluable and completely portable capo. Pity it can't be done on the violin (with standard hold, at any rate).
Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
In the last bar of either part of the tune known as Auchadon House, Auchdon House, Auchdon House March, Haughton House, Joe Ryan, Joe Ryan's, Joe Ryan's Barn Dance, or the Kilnamona, do you play an open E or use the little finger on the A string?
# Posted on April 16th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
Personally, I prefer to use the pinky.
It seems that this tune is called Haughton House, though I've been playing it for well over 30 years as Auchdon House, and I got it from a Glaswegian who was, at the time, living in the Faroe Islands (now lives in Sweden).
I was at Haughton House only this morning (pron. "Hochton" locally - could explain the "Auchdon").
Small world.
# Posted on April 16th 2011 by Weejie
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
I would use the pinky as well. If there is only one quick 'e' without another note following on the same string, or preceding it, I try to avoid the open string as it tends to ring.
# Posted on April 16th 2011 by gam
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
As a comment on the general question (as per the title of the thread) the rule of thumb I use is, if the E is not a rhythmically or melodically important note, or an open E is too obtrusive in context, then I _might_ play it as a fingered note on the A-string, but not necessarily so. It all depends, wll.
# Posted on April 16th 2011 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
(That's good, Trevor -- a "rule of thumb" about using the fourth finger.
)
I would use the pinky most of the time in this tune, I think. I might play it open sometime too, though. As Trevor says, it all depends.
# Posted on April 16th 2011 by John Culhane
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
The choice of whether to play the open string or use pinky should be based on what sound you want to express, not what your technical limitations are. Learn to do it both ways.
It depends on how you want the note to sound, which in turn depends on whether you're using that note to emphasize the pulse. In other words, is the "e" on a strong beat, or is it in a spot that doesn't want any emphasis? Do you want it to pop? Do you want it to ring? Can you leave it out without derailing the phrase? Do you want to slur onto it, or off from it?
So it's not a matter of whether one way (open string vs. pinky) is "easier" than the other, but which will be the most effective for the sound you're after. And as the sound you're after changes (the next time around that same phrase), then you'll change how you get that note.
In the case of Auchadon House, that "e" falls on the 4th beat of the first group of 1-2-3-4. So it's not a beat you'd normally emphasize in this music. But it's also the highest note in that ending phrase and it sets up the "d" that the ending resolves to. So it's wide open for your interpretation.
You can grab it with the open string, just grazing the note. (You can let it ring, or you can let your ring finger on the "d" touch the e string to stop the note.) Or you can play it with your pinky and then slur and swell onto the following downbeat "d" that starts the next group of 1-2-3-4. Or (trust me, there are more options here than you want to know) slur from the open "e" onto the following "d." Or you could even slur three notes on one bow, starting with that "e," into the "d" and down to the low "F#." In that case, playing the "e" with the pinky will give you a smoother slur (one less string crossing) across the three notes.
To me, the main question to ask here is what's you're overall take on the tune. Is it crisp and bouncy, with a bit of an almost staccato feel? Or do you want it more legato? Personally, I tend to play this with some bounce, with distinct micro-pauses around certain notes. Those crisp notes like to be set off against little slur combinations though, so it doesn't sound all samey. So sometimes I'll pop that open e string, but keep the note short. And sometimes I'll slur down from the pinky onto the "d" for a smearier sound.
# Posted on April 16th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
I prefer playing an open string. It seems to give the note a little something that you wouldn't get by playing it with the fourth finger. Feels like it gives more lift to the tune.
# Posted on April 16th 2011 by banshee misfortune
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
Unless I have a very good reason for wanting to make that single note stand out, I would always use my pinky rather than change strings for a single open note.
But maybe I'm just lazy.
# Posted on April 17th 2011 by skreech
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
Thanks everyone.
"The choice of whether to play the open string or use pinky should be based on what sound you want to express, not what your technical limitations are. Learn to do it both ways.
...So it's not a matter of whether one way (open string vs. pinky) is "easier" than the other, but which will be the most effective for the sound you're after. And as the sound you're after changes (the next time around that same phrase), then you'll change how you get that note."
I find I always want to play this particular phrase the same way, and I can't get it to sound that way using the little finger. The little finger version sounds "softer", the open string sounds "crisper". And as violamike says, the open string version gives a certain lift.
I'm not sure if this represents a technical limitation on my part or not.
Years ago on this website I read a comment where somebody said how relieved he was to discover that famous fiddler X also used an open string in tune Y. I'd really like to read that thread again, but I don't have enough information to find it. If any member with a remarkably good memory can point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful and impressed.
Being almost entirely self-taught I know I have some bad habits, and the reason for this question was to identify if the open string in this particular context is one of those. From what's been said here, I'm content to carry on playing it the way I had been.
# Posted on April 17th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
@ John Culhane, re "rule of thumb"
Well, I've been a cellist for most of my life and the left thumb is the cellist's invaluable and completely portable capo. Pity it can't be done on the violin (with standard hold, at any rate).
# Posted on April 17th 2011 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Open E or fingered (fiddle question)?
both, mix it up. It's what choices are for
# Posted on April 17th 2011 by ...