Hello! So I play [clarinet] in a contra dance band [so I'm relatively new at this] and my fiddler and I are trying to come up with a set of smooth reels. But everything I suggest gets shot down! ;) Soo I'm just curious if it is just that I don't know what the heck a smooth reel sounds like, or if he's just crazy. What do you all like to play for a smooth contra dance?
Thanks!!
PS this may already be a discussion topic somewhere...I did look a bit to see if I could find an old thread but wasn't successful, but definitely feel free to direct me if this is the case!
hahaha yeah! well! exactly...*I* think it really depends a lot on how you play it...like for example I think "The Volunteer" could be very nice to play for a smooth dance. In fact I have never heard it played anything but smoothly! But I am met with disagreement on this one...
let me see maybe as opposed to.....(trying to think of a tune most people would know) ok, "Belle Catherine" is a pretty bouncy tune! Not something you would play for a smooth dance, right?
Do you mean less notey reels? Like Rolling in the Barrel/In the Tap room or Egans/Lafferty's kinds of sets? Check out the Paddy Canny/PJ Hayes recording for lots of these kinds of sets....but not sure if this is what you mean....
(I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the fiddler is crazy - and actually, it is not him, it's that a few months ago we played for a dance with a caller who wanted smooth major reels. And we were like "uuuuh" and kind of came up blank. It went pretty unsuccessfully. We are playing with this caller again, so are trying to be better prepared this time)
I'm not sure that these will be what he's looking for - based on things I've already suggested, BUT am loving these tunes regardless soooo definitely keep the suggestions coming haha
It would be helpful to know at what tempo you want to play these reels.
There are slow reels, and there are reels that are better for non-balance dances (sorry for the contra terminology), but if you're playing at normal tempo there are reels that don't encourage 'bouncy-ness' and those that do.
So, what are you trying to accomplish?
I did a little web surfing to help you out, because I don't think
session.org is the place to find out about Contra tunes. Contra
is a different animal; I've dabbled in it myself. It's a french/american
thing, not Irish.
Have a look here - looks like lots of useful info linked from it:
What dance or dances did the caller want "smooth major" reels for - do you remember the particular dance? In my experience, marches work really well when the caller describes the dance as "smooth". Farewell to Whiskey and The Dark Girl make a nice set. Meeting of the Waters is another very nice march that works well for some contras. Good idea to find out more from the caller what they think they have in mind. It may turn out that they don't really know and what you play will be just fine.
"The majority of standard contra tunes are of Irish origin."
Not where I've played for contra dances, not even in New England. Lots of specifically contra dance tunes, like many of Bob McQuillen's compositions, and old tunes from American fiddle music, and French-Canadian. And tunes like Rory O'More (written by an Englishman), the Dominion Reel, Batchelder's, Magpie Reel, Road to California....
Sure, you *can* play a lot of Irish tunes for contra dances, but they aren't a staple of the music for many contra bands.
Hi Will,
I've played contra every week since 1980 when I started a weekly dance in Spokane, WA - now I live in PA. Multiple times I've toured east coast US and west coast US, southern states, and yes, in Montana, and played with every major band in the US at dance camps and in all of the major US folk festivals.
I've also played with Bob McQuillen, who's goal (early on) was to write 1000 tunes for contra. Some survive, and many not so much. He tends to play only his tunes.
With confidence, I can tell you that the majority of repertoire comes from the Irish tradition. Sure, there is plenty of other music, New England based tunes, and a few English tunes, French Can tunes, and certainly many excellent and exciting tunes that are from the modern dance tradition - coming from Jeremiah McLane, Keith Murphy, the Miller brothers, and even one from yourself that I play…to name a few.
I think that if you went to NEFFA or the Seattle Folklife Festival and listed the repertoire, there would be little doubt that the root of contra music in the US is in the Irish tradition.
As for smooth reels - well, that's a matter of how you play, what the dancers are doing, and whether they are slow or fast (at least in my experience).
PS Hi John Culhane - I haven't seen you for a long time. I think your comment is right on the mark.
Interesting. You've certainly played contra longer and more widely than I have, so no doubt your take on this is more informed than mine.
Makes me wonder how off-the-wall my contra experience has been.
Can't say I care much for the way most Irish tunes sound when played by contra dance bands. Usually far bouncier than as played within the Irish tradition. We do plenty of them in our local contra band, but to make them fit the dance, I feel like I'm giving them a different personality.
I look at the tracks of many of the contra cds out there and the Irish tunes are few and far between. "New England Chestnuts," "Flying on Home," "Evergreen," etc. Even bands like Syncopaths, who advertise themselves as "Celtic contra," tend to play more Scottish, Canadian, and American fiddle music.
Fair enough. Surely, it's a scattered lot. I tend to lean on ITM as the substance of the music is more interesting, and useable for variation, dynamics, and connection with the standard dance rhythms.
I hear your take on how Irish tunes typically sound when played for Contra. As with any music, it's about the execution and the interpretation of the phrases. A simple example to meet your point, I've always found it challenging to try to record ITM on a Contra CD. While you can play Irish tunes to suit the rhythms of the dances, the translation often loses the craic of the tune, and renders them sub-standard from a rendition by session players.
Incidentally, the tune we use by you is something to do with a frog, that I've renamed Willie's Hornpipe (not that it's a hornpipe, or that we play it that way, it's just a habit of mine to rename things.)
Toppish - where I am, there are few Irish tunes on the menu.
It's Scottish, French Canadian and 'purpose-built' Contra. A
whole bunch of these tunes are ragtime. The people who run
the show in the local Contra club have spent a lot of time in France
and New England respectively. It's risky to say "wrong"
in the world of the arts Toppish - it's a big world out there.
I suppose it is the beauty of Contra music - that nearly anything can be adapted to work in the form. A band here recently did a version of 'Bring the Funk'
When I've played contra dances, we played mostly Irish tunes, but that may have just been what most of the musicians in the hastily-thrown-together-because-someone-else-bailed band knew.
"I'm a Contra.... You're a Contra..." I have memories of my 10th grade American history teacher dancing about the classroom singing this when discussing that particular incident in Reagan's presidency.
The caller asked for major keys, yes?
Dominion Reel, Convenience Reel, Swinging on a Gate, Whiskey Before Breakfast and others of that ilk make for smooth reels
...as opposed to those which have a built-in balance at some point in the dance:
Miss McCleods, Kitchen Girl, Old Grey Cat, Big John McNeil, Joys of Quebec....etc.
YES I love the playing any instrument under the sun bit!! Big thumbs up!! Because I'm just so miserably in love with this stuff but I play lowly clarinet ;) - I have a hard time explaining to my classical teachers and friends at school what the heck I'm playing though
Oh and thank you for the tune suggestions vonnieestes - I will play with these today
@Will Harmon - oh my! thank you for that contracast link, tunestunestunes!
and I have discovered a reel that everyone I've talked to so far agrees is smooth - even mr. fiddler! which is "Arizona" (one of my favorites - especially smooth on clarinet)
I think I play in that band you referenced with "Bring the Funk". I think the name of that tune is actually "We Got the Funk", and we also include the Bee Gees "Stayin' Alive" in that set. Hey, you guys are a great sounding band. Say "Hi" to Mike from me, we sometimes cross paths at feisianna.
You play clarinet? Listen to Big Bandemonium for jazzy contra tune sets. I had the privilege of sharing the stage with them (along with some other local musicians) during a Dance Flurry finale a few years ago. Fun!!!
I figured you'd know of them after I looked at your profile.(chuckles) If you danced at the Saratoga Springs, NY Flurry festival Sunday afternoon Farewell contra in 2008, I was playing keyboard with them for a few sets (Peter Barnes was playing whistle for that dance). That WAS FUN! I could try to send you pictures and low quality sound files to spark your memory (chuckles)...
Oooh I would love some sound bits
Let's seeeee...yes I was there in 2008! That was my first year - I wonder if I stayed until the end, I believe I did !
willow129@gmail.com
Smooth reels
Smooth reels
Hello! So I play [clarinet] in a contra dance band [so I'm relatively new at this] and my fiddler and I are trying to come up with a set of smooth reels. But everything I suggest gets shot down! ;) Soo I'm just curious if it is just that I don't know what the heck a smooth reel sounds like, or if he's just crazy. What do you all like to play for a smooth contra dance?
Thanks!!
PS this may already be a discussion topic somewhere...I did look a bit to see if I could find an old thread but wasn't successful, but definitely feel free to direct me if this is the case!
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by willow129
Re: Smooth reels
I don't know what a smooth reel sounds like, either. As opposed to what?
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Smooth reels
hahaha yeah! well! exactly...*I* think it really depends a lot on how you play it...like for example I think "The Volunteer" could be very nice to play for a smooth dance. In fact I have never heard it played anything but smoothly! But I am met with disagreement on this one...
let me see maybe as opposed to.....(trying to think of a tune most people would know) ok, "Belle Catherine" is a pretty bouncy tune! Not something you would play for a smooth dance, right?
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by willow129
Re: Smooth reels
Not sure what you mean either, by Smooth Reel's. But this playing of them sounds pretty Smooth to me : )
jim,,,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YLo3wH8dsk
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: Smooth reels
Do you mean less notey reels? Like Rolling in the Barrel/In the Tap room or Egans/Lafferty's kinds of sets? Check out the Paddy Canny/PJ Hayes recording for lots of these kinds of sets....but not sure if this is what you mean....
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by thejigisup
Re: Smooth reels
It's like whiskey as opposed to whisky ~ the first one's smoother.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Smooth reels
haha!
soooo definitely keep the suggestions coming haha
(I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the fiddler is crazy - and actually, it is not him, it's that a few months ago we played for a dance with a caller who wanted smooth major reels. And we were like "uuuuh" and kind of came up blank. It went pretty unsuccessfully. We are playing with this caller again, so are trying to be better prepared this time)
I'm not sure that these will be what he's looking for - based on things I've already suggested, BUT am loving these tunes regardless
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by willow129
Re: Smooth reels
Why don't you just ask the caller what he considers a smooth reel to be? or for a list of tunes ..
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by jardineromi
Re: Smooth reels
It would be helpful to know at what tempo you want to play these reels.
There are slow reels, and there are reels that are better for non-balance dances (sorry for the contra terminology), but if you're playing at normal tempo there are reels that don't encourage 'bouncy-ness' and those that do.
So, what are you trying to accomplish?
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Toppish
Re: Smooth reels
I did a little web surfing to help you out, because I don't think
session.org is the place to find out about Contra tunes. Contra
is a different animal; I've dabbled in it myself. It's a french/american
thing, not Irish.
Have a look here - looks like lots of useful info linked from it:
http://www.biteyourownelbow.com/contramu.htm
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Hup
Re: Smooth reels
Hup - wrong
The majority of standard contra tunes are of Irish origin.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Toppish
Re: Smooth reels
What dance or dances did the caller want "smooth major" reels for - do you remember the particular dance? In my experience, marches work really well when the caller describes the dance as "smooth". Farewell to Whiskey and The Dark Girl make a nice set. Meeting of the Waters is another very nice march that works well for some contras. Good idea to find out more from the caller what they think they have in mind. It may turn out that they don't really know and what you play will be just fine.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by John Culhane
Re: Smooth reels
"The majority of standard contra tunes are of Irish origin."
Not where I've played for contra dances, not even in New England. Lots of specifically contra dance tunes, like many of Bob McQuillen's compositions, and old tunes from American fiddle music, and French-Canadian. And tunes like Rory O'More (written by an Englishman), the Dominion Reel, Batchelder's, Magpie Reel, Road to California....
Sure, you *can* play a lot of Irish tunes for contra dances, but they aren't a staple of the music for many contra bands.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Smooth reels
Hi Will,
I've played contra every week since 1980 when I started a weekly dance in Spokane, WA - now I live in PA. Multiple times I've toured east coast US and west coast US, southern states, and yes, in Montana, and played with every major band in the US at dance camps and in all of the major US folk festivals.
I've also played with Bob McQuillen, who's goal (early on) was to write 1000 tunes for contra. Some survive, and many not so much. He tends to play only his tunes.
With confidence, I can tell you that the majority of repertoire comes from the Irish tradition. Sure, there is plenty of other music, New England based tunes, and a few English tunes, French Can tunes, and certainly many excellent and exciting tunes that are from the modern dance tradition - coming from Jeremiah McLane, Keith Murphy, the Miller brothers, and even one from yourself that I play…to name a few.
I think that if you went to NEFFA or the Seattle Folklife Festival and listed the repertoire, there would be little doubt that the root of contra music in the US is in the Irish tradition.
As for smooth reels - well, that's a matter of how you play, what the dancers are doing, and whether they are slow or fast (at least in my experience).
PS Hi John Culhane - I haven't seen you for a long time. I think your comment is right on the mark.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Toppish
Re: Smooth reels
Interesting. You've certainly played contra longer and more widely than I have, so no doubt your take on this is more informed than mine.
Makes me wonder how off-the-wall my contra experience has been.
Can't say I care much for the way most Irish tunes sound when played by contra dance bands. Usually far bouncier than as played within the Irish tradition. We do plenty of them in our local contra band, but to make them fit the dance, I feel like I'm giving them a different personality.
I look at the tracks of many of the contra cds out there and the Irish tunes are few and far between. "New England Chestnuts," "Flying on Home," "Evergreen," etc. Even bands like Syncopaths, who advertise themselves as "Celtic contra," tend to play more Scottish, Canadian, and American fiddle music.
Interestingly, too, the playlist for "contracast" isn't predominantly Irish. Lots of other stuff in there. http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/08/cbr/news/2010-11-03.html
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: Smooth reels
Fair enough. Surely, it's a scattered lot. I tend to lean on ITM as the substance of the music is more interesting, and useable for variation, dynamics, and connection with the standard dance rhythms.
I hear your take on how Irish tunes typically sound when played for Contra. As with any music, it's about the execution and the interpretation of the phrases. A simple example to meet your point, I've always found it challenging to try to record ITM on a Contra CD. While you can play Irish tunes to suit the rhythms of the dances, the translation often loses the craic of the tune, and renders them sub-standard from a rendition by session players.
Incidentally, the tune we use by you is something to do with a frog, that I've renamed Willie's Hornpipe (not that it's a hornpipe, or that we play it that way, it's just a habit of mine to rename things.)
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Toppish
Re: Smooth reels
Toppish - where I am, there are few Irish tunes on the menu.
It's Scottish, French Canadian and 'purpose-built' Contra. A
whole bunch of these tunes are ragtime. The people who run
the show in the local Contra club have spent a lot of time in France
and New England respectively. It's risky to say "wrong"
in the world of the arts Toppish - it's a big world out there.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Hup
Re: Smooth reels
Mouth of the Tobique
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Smooth reels
Hup - So it is. Thrubbing accepted.
I suppose it is the beauty of Contra music - that nearly anything can be adapted to work in the form. A band here recently did a version of 'Bring the Funk'
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Toppish
Re: Smooth reels
When I've played contra dances, we played mostly Irish tunes, but that may have just been what most of the musicians in the hastily-thrown-together-because-someone-else-bailed band knew.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Smooth reels
Of course it's all Irish in origin. Who do you think invented music.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Smooth reels
Didn't President Reagan get in some hot water about funding Contras in the 80's?
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Smooth reels
Check out Nightingale CDs for smooth, yet driving music
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by Gary Blankenship
Re: Smooth reels
"I'm a Contra.... You're a Contra..." I have memories of my 10th grade American history teacher dancing about the classroom singing this when discussing that particular incident in Reagan's presidency.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Smooth reels
The caller asked for major keys, yes?
Dominion Reel, Convenience Reel, Swinging on a Gate, Whiskey Before Breakfast and others of that ilk make for smooth reels
...as opposed to those which have a built-in balance at some point in the dance:
Miss McCleods, Kitchen Girl, Old Grey Cat, Big John McNeil, Joys of Quebec....etc.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by vonnieestes
Re: Smooth reels
Another great thing about Contra - you can play any instrument
under the sun. But I'd rather be in the Irish Trad camp.
# Posted on April 6th 2011 by Hup
Re: Smooth reels
YES I love the playing any instrument under the sun bit!! Big thumbs up!! Because I'm just so miserably in love with this stuff but I play lowly clarinet ;) - I have a hard time explaining to my classical teachers and friends at school what the heck I'm playing though
# Posted on April 6th 2011 by willow129
Re: Smooth reels
Oh and thank you for the tune suggestions vonnieestes - I will play with these today
@Will Harmon - oh my! thank you for that contracast link, tunestunestunes!
and I have discovered a reel that everyone I've talked to so far agrees is smooth - even mr. fiddler! which is "Arizona" (one of my favorites - especially smooth on clarinet)
# Posted on April 6th 2011 by willow129
Re: Smooth reels
Hi there Top,
I think I play in that band you referenced with "Bring the Funk". I think the name of that tune is actually "We Got the Funk", and we also include the Bee Gees "Stayin' Alive" in that set. Hey, you guys are a great sounding band. Say "Hi" to Mike from me, we sometimes cross paths at feisianna.
Dave Yates
# Posted on April 6th 2011 by pbassnote
Re: Smooth reels
You play clarinet? Listen to Big Bandemonium for jazzy contra tune sets. I had the privilege of sharing the stage with them (along with some other local musicians) during a Dance Flurry finale a few years ago. Fun!!!
# Posted on April 6th 2011 by vonnieestes
Re: Smooth reels
I do have a Big Bandemonium CD
I wonder when you played with them and if I danced to you there! haha
# Posted on April 6th 2011 by willow129
Re: Smooth reels
I figured you'd know of them after I looked at your profile.(chuckles) If you danced at the Saratoga Springs, NY Flurry festival Sunday afternoon Farewell contra in 2008, I was playing keyboard with them for a few sets (Peter Barnes was playing whistle for that dance). That WAS FUN! I could try to send you pictures and low quality sound files to spark your memory (chuckles)...
# Posted on April 8th 2011 by vonnieestes
Re: Smooth reels
Oooh I would love some sound bits
Let's seeeee...yes I was there in 2008! That was my first year - I wonder if I stayed until the end, I believe I did !
willow129@gmail.com
# Posted on April 10th 2011 by willow129
Re: Smooth reels
I'll try to send a couple to you. They might be too large....long sets of dancers made for long sets of tunes...
# Posted on April 18th 2011 by vonnieestes