No worries. Your advice is sound--that's exactly what I did: listened to a lot of really good players and sorted out where the emphasis always falls and that this is also where all the articulation happens. At first, I just felt it. But then, to help others understand it, I figured out where in the count the beats land, for every tune form.
Part of the beauty of this music is that the pulse is steady even as it moves around. Not just always a downbeat or always a backbeat (as in some genres), but moving from downbeat to backbeat and back again, and sometimes all of the above. So the pulse is fluid, not static. Yet there is a form to it--always on the 1s and 3s, never the 2s and (in 4/4 tunes) 4s.
You might hear a 2 or a 4 swell in a 1-2-3-4 phrase, but that's only leading onto the next 3 or 4 beat, where the emphasis actually lands.
Thank you Will, (I joined number 5532) I really value this place, but tend to just pick posts that are interesting and then slide down the list of speakers till find the ones that have helped me learn - Mr W Harmon and Mr M Gill - thank you.
Yes Ben that's where the pearl is found, but after hours and hours and hours and hours of reading the stuff about;
what to do when someone turns up that does not play how yuo want to play,
whats your favorite note,
what to do when the spoons go crazy
what to do with the beer when it goes flat
what to do when your girl finds out you love your fiddle more
what to do when twelve guitar players turn up at your session
what to do when twelve guitar players don't turn up at your session
etc etc etc
I just thought when a real bit of solid gold turns up would highlight.
not stealing any thunder, Will won't mind. He sits quietly in Montana dispensing gold to all those who wont listen.
Hey Ben - well, this place is a mine of info, and if you troll through all the mud there is gold and diamonds. Just thought would hold up a diamond. Thats all
Jon - Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon - how can we ever hope to keep this all traditional and cosy if young upstarts keep wandering away from the cornerstones of tradition that are holy.
Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe in the library is fine
Colonel Mustard with the revolver in the lounge is good
Colonel Mustard with the rope in the billiard room is inspired....
but - snug? and bicycle? its just not trad!!! ;)
(Except that when ever I see "never" and "always", as in "never the 2s" and "always on the 1s" I have to think about it and go ... hang on a mo, I like banging the pulse on the 2 and not the one, now and again.)
Yes Micheal - we understand the need that you have to non confirm - even if its going to cost you everything. But - reckon you will only tarry for a while on the 2 and then return to the 1 and 3, just cos it makes it better. Like sitting with Barbara Good for a while, then banging head on table and returning to Mrs Good. just cos it will feel better.
Honestly, I'm just happy to be able to pass along what I've learned from so many great players. Mustardville seems like a good place to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
Michael, yeah, once in a blue moon it's fun to pounce on a 2, and a few new-age syncopated tunes do that on a regular basis. So my "never" and "always" were shorthand for "Do it this way, except when you don't."
"You might hear a 2 or a 4 swell in a 1-2-3-4 phrase, but that's only leading onto the next 3 or 4 beat, where the emphasis actually lands." Did you write that the way you intended, Will? Just asking because I'm sure I understand it so well.
Ben, what I'm trying to get at in that paragraph is that it's common in this music to slur onto the strong beats (1s and 3s), and as a fiddler, I tend to start the swell of emphasis in the slur from the note/beat before (so either a 4 onto a 1 or a 2 onto a 3).
Some people hear that as emphasis on the 2s and 4s, but it's really just building to the true emphasis on the 1 or 3.
I just wanted to know it is a 4 onto a one. Not nit picking, just thought maybe I was missing something. Thanks for listening to all those great players. Although it sounds more like fun than a chore.
Yep, the last beat of 1-2-3-4 slurs onto the next 1.
Of course, in jigs (of all kinds), it's the 3 that slurs onto the next 1, but the idea is much the same.
Re: listening to all those great players. "It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it."
read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
No worries. Your advice is sound--that's exactly what I did: listened to a lot of really good players and sorted out where the emphasis always falls and that this is also where all the articulation happens. At first, I just felt it. But then, to help others understand it, I figured out where in the count the beats land, for every tune form.
Part of the beauty of this music is that the pulse is steady even as it moves around. Not just always a downbeat or always a backbeat (as in some genres), but moving from downbeat to backbeat and back again, and sometimes all of the above. So the pulse is fluid, not static. Yet there is a form to it--always on the 1s and 3s, never the 2s and (in 4/4 tunes) 4s.
You might hear a 2 or a 4 swell in a 1-2-3-4 phrase, but that's only leading onto the next 3 or 4 beat, where the emphasis actually lands.
# Posted on April 2nd 2011 by Will Harmon
# Posted on April 3rd 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Thank you Will, (I joined number 5532) I really value this place, but tend to just pick posts that are interesting and then slide down the list of speakers till find the ones that have helped me learn - Mr W Harmon and Mr M Gill - thank you.
# Posted on April 3rd 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/27201#comment576623
# Posted on April 3rd 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Yes Ben that's where the pearl is found, but after hours and hours and hours and hours of reading the stuff about;
what to do when someone turns up that does not play how yuo want to play,
whats your favorite note,
what to do when the spoons go crazy
what to do with the beer when it goes flat
what to do when your girl finds out you love your fiddle more
what to do when twelve guitar players turn up at your session
what to do when twelve guitar players don't turn up at your session
etc etc etc
I just thought when a real bit of solid gold turns up would highlight.
not stealing any thunder, Will won't mind. He sits quietly in Montana dispensing gold to all those who wont listen.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
OK! But have you ever considered collecting hot water bottles or xmas tree light sets instead?
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
should have spent more time in English wondering why Mrs Good wasn't and more time pondering the difference between hear and here.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
You must be reading more threads than the Web Master. Go play.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Sorry! I meant to address that previous posting to 'Clunky-Baby'...
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Hey Ben - well, this place is a mine of info, and if you troll through all the mud there is gold and diamonds. Just thought would hold up a diamond. Thats all
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
'Troll' is an interesting word in this forum-like context.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Ironic, isn't it?
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Troll.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Sorry! I'm cofused as to who the troll is: I suspect yhaalhouse.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
or is it Kkrick Stahlschwanx?
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Clunk, I recognized the earlier post by Will. It's grand! I thought the link would be appropriate.
Cheers,
Ben
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
yhaalhouse how are you confused? You brought it up. If you don't know we are dead in the water.
Cheers,
Ben
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Colonel Mustard. In the snug. With a bicycle.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
we need sticky's
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Sunnybear
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Jon - Jon, Jon, Jon, Jon - how can we ever hope to keep this all traditional and cosy if young upstarts keep wandering away from the cornerstones of tradition that are holy.
Colonel Mustard with the lead pipe in the library is fine
Colonel Mustard with the revolver in the lounge is good
Colonel Mustard with the rope in the billiard room is inspired....
but - snug? and bicycle? its just not trad!!! ;)
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
(Except that when ever I see "never" and "always", as in "never the 2s" and "always on the 1s" I have to think about it and go ... hang on a mo, I like banging the pulse on the 2 and not the one, now and again.)
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by ...
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
spice of life
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Think there might be some confusion between "troll" and "trawl" here.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by fen slodger
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Yes Micheal - we understand the need that you have to non confirm - even if its going to cost you everything. But - reckon you will only tarry for a while on the 2 and then return to the 1 and 3, just cos it makes it better. Like sitting with Barbara Good for a while, then banging head on table and returning to Mrs Good. just cos it will feel better.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by clunk999
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Perfectly traditional. Doctor Black was a cutlery clatterer, it was only fair to send him out trick riding.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
aww, shucks, <blush, blush>
Honestly, I'm just happy to be able to pass along what I've learned from so many great players. Mustardville seems like a good place to throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
Michael, yeah, once in a blue moon it's fun to pounce on a 2, and a few new-age syncopated tunes do that on a regular basis. So my "never" and "always" were shorthand for "Do it this way, except when you don't."
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
"You might hear a 2 or a 4 swell in a 1-2-3-4 phrase, but that's only leading onto the next 3 or 4 beat, where the emphasis actually lands." Did you write that the way you intended, Will? Just asking because I'm sure I understand it so well.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
I'm *not* sure ...
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Ben, what I'm trying to get at in that paragraph is that it's common in this music to slur onto the strong beats (1s and 3s), and as a fiddler, I tend to start the swell of emphasis in the slur from the note/beat before (so either a 4 onto a 1 or a 2 onto a 3).
Some people hear that as emphasis on the 2s and 4s, but it's really just building to the true emphasis on the 1 or 3.
Is that any clearer?
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
I just wanted to know it is a 4 onto a one. Not nit picking, just thought maybe I was missing something. Thanks for listening to all those great players. Although it sounds more like fun than a chore.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Yep, the last beat of 1-2-3-4 slurs onto the next 1.
Of course, in jigs (of all kinds), it's the 3 that slurs onto the next 1, but the idea is much the same.
Re: listening to all those great players. "It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it."
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
You forgot to mention that in between Will's pearls of wisdom you have to listen to him churn out a bunch of useless sh*te for a few years
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Jigs, pearls - don't miss the clip Prof P just posted on the phrasing discussion.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by David50
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
Let us not forget those who make their contribution in the form of silence.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
@CMO "Let us not forget those who make their contribution in the form of silence."
...in itself, a pearl, too!
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by trad2nz
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
"@CMO "Let us not forget those who make their contribution in the form of silence."
...in itself, a pearl, too! "
...Except I'd have made my point better had I not said anything.
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: read this site for years - hear is a pearl.
That's what i thought it was when I first
read it. Pearl. But thanks for naming it.
# Posted on April 5th 2011 by dogmageek