I'm new to border piping and want to get an instrument with nice dynamics and good response to cross fingerings and chromatics. I'm sure "it depends on what I want to get out of it", but what would you recommend??
I'm thinking about Morrison's Reelpipes, a set by Garvie or Hamish & Fin Moore. What do you think?
Many thanks for your advise, may life pay it back with a nice set of border pipes
I have read and heard good things about all those pipes and makers. But, since you ask:
I would say, as I do with any instrument purchase -
I would first try to check out as many different instruments as possible. There are a fair number of people out there making good Border pipes, depending on what the piper likes. If you have listened to any pipers whose playing you like on Borders, find out what they are playing.
It should not be difficult to ask any piper worth his/her salt about their ax. Who knows, they might even let you have a look at them.
The first set I ever saw, the man graciously let me give them a blow, with a few instructions first, natch.
Very generous, indeed.
Good luck to you,
may it be as good
as mine has been.
I played a set of Morrison's I had on loan while deciding on a maker. In the end I went with Garvie.
I liked the turning and the tuning of the Morrisons however a couple of little things put me off like the quality of the "silver" -- it looked like it came out of a gumball machine and almost all of it had come unglued from the wood. Also, the bag was stiff as a board which made it difficult to play (although you could change the bag). Also, the drone switch was hard to move and at times would bend a little.
I'm very happy with my Mopane Garvies with boxwood mounts. Drone switch slides easily and I'm overall more fond of the more antique style of drones. The Mopane has a lovely warm sound to it too.
I agree with Piece... try to get your hands on a few sets and try before you buy.
I've owned three so-called "border" chanters, none of them called by that name by their makers:
-a Hamish Moore "reel" chanter, boxwood
-a Nigel Richard "session" chanter, blackwood, w/ high B key
-a Jon Swayne "Lowland" chanter, ebony, w/high B key
All three were basically the same beast, key of A, volume halfway between Highland pipes and smallpipes, very low pressure, chromatic.
The Moore and Richard chanters played very much alike, in fact the reeds could be switched between them (the scale adjusted with some tape).
The Moore and the Richard could be played with shaved-down GHB reeds though some of the chromatics were lost.
The Swayne was a somewhat different beast, rather more quiet than the others, with the narrowest bore of the three, and a plastic Swayne reed.
I'm not sure what you mean about "dynamics", as these chanters only play at one volume level. Blowing harder or softer just makes them go out of tune or squeal. Using different fingerings just makes them play out of tune.
They're very finicky about using the exact fingerings for each note, much more so than GHB chanters. On my 482 GHB band chanter with a fairly strong reed I can finger E with any or all of the lower-hand fingers off and the note is still pretty much in tune, whereas if you change any of the lowerhand fingers on a border/reel/session/Lowland chanter the E will drop in pitch to D#, which of course it needs to do to play chromatically.
These chanters would play a full chromatic scale, including Bb
x xxx xxox
I played all of these chanters in a 19th century Halfsize Highland Pipe, the pipes that today are mistakenly called 3/4 pipes. (Despite these names, the pipes themselves are 7/8 the size of the GHB.)
Here's a video of Fin playing a sweet sounding set of BP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pvy9qu6JxI
Something to consider is that the Moores and Richard make their pipes while, iirc, MacCallum makes Morrison's pipes. If you want wee Highland pipes look no further. I play in a session with a BPiper who plays a Garvie chanter and it is nearly as loud as a Highland pipe chanter. It's very loud. Did I mention it's loud.
Nate Banton (www.elbowmusic.com) makes beautiful Border pipes. He backs his sets up 100% and he's very easy to work with. His BP chanter is interchangable with his SSP and just about as loud. It's great for sessions.
Also, Richard and Anita Evans make very nice soundling BP. I had one for a while, but it was made out of muhuhu, which, I discovered, I am allergic to. It was a real sweet chanter, very similar to a Colin Ross BP chanter I heard next to it.
And then there's Ian Corrigan of Deerness who makes BP in A and G, bellows and mouth blown. They have a Continental sound that I like very much. He made Paul Martin's pipes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyYtjPCLB9A
I feel fortunate to have a set of Ray Sloan's BP. He doesn't make them any longer. They are not too loud for a session, but they have a big sound similar in volume and tone to a concert pitch uilleann pipe in D. Many people compliment the drone sound. Ray is a fantastic craftsman. His pipes are incredibly well made and finished. I've had these pipes for over ten years and I'm still playing the same chanter reeds (some are good for the winter and others for the summer). Another thing I appreciate about Ray is that he is very responsive to questions and emails. IMHO, Rays pipes are the only BP that approaches the UP sound. That figures, becuase he makes UP full time.
Thanks bellowsboy. I'm looking for a bp set that stands ok against an accordion, to set a standard. I usually play smallpipes with the accordion and it sounds very nice, but the pipes get overwhelmed easily, specially when the other guy's having a lot of fun, playing forte and playing lots of chords and stuff.
I'm also looking to good response to chromatics. I live in Mexico City, a very high place with thin air, and it's very hard to get Cs and Fs flats on the GBP due to the hight and I'm afraid I'll have the same problem with the bp.
In the first video feat. Fin Moore they sound quite nice and a little bit louder than the fiddle, just a little bit -or maybe is it that both sounds blend into one, or the mic catches bp better?- which might be ok. Chromatics also sound fantastic there.
There's a opportunity of getting a Moore bp set from a friend that is selling them but I still haven't discarded the option by Fred Morrison. What would you say?
Well firstly I would consider an old set of 7/8th GHB with a border chanter, this is what I play , a lot cheaper ! Even for classic Hendersons in Cocus!
At the moment im using a H moore chanter. The last yr or two has been on a MacHarg chanter. I recently picked up a Morrison chanter and its the quietest of the three by far.The MacHarg is not technically a border chanter but its smaller than a standard GHB chanter.
As regards your altitude, well the Border chanter is more finnicky than a wider bore GHB chanter. In this case id maybe recommend a MacClaren synthetic reed .
If you can try the H Moore's then id def try that first. BB makes some great suggestions . but realistically try befor you buy!
good luck.
PS consider Jon Swayne set , but the waiting list!..
Border pipes
Border pipes
I'm new to border piping and want to get an instrument with nice dynamics and good response to cross fingerings and chromatics. I'm sure "it depends on what I want to get out of it", but what would you recommend??
I'm thinking about Morrison's Reelpipes, a set by Garvie or Hamish & Fin Moore. What do you think?
Many thanks for your advise, may life pay it back with a nice set of border pipes
# Posted on March 29th 2011 by eto8216
Re: Border pipes
I know folk who play Fred's and Garvies- both good pipes. I think the Garvies are maybe slighly easier to cross finfger
# Posted on March 29th 2011 by Alasdair Paul
Re: Border pipes
I have read and heard good things about all those pipes and makers. But, since you ask:
I would say, as I do with any instrument purchase -
I would first try to check out as many different instruments as possible. There are a fair number of people out there making good Border pipes, depending on what the piper likes. If you have listened to any pipers whose playing you like on Borders, find out what they are playing.
It should not be difficult to ask any piper worth his/her salt about their ax. Who knows, they might even let you have a look at them.
The first set I ever saw, the man graciously let me give them a blow, with a few instructions first, natch.
Very generous, indeed.
Good luck to you,
may it be as good
as mine has been.
# Posted on March 30th 2011 by Piece
Re: Border pipes
I played a set of Morrison's I had on loan while deciding on a maker. In the end I went with Garvie.
I liked the turning and the tuning of the Morrisons however a couple of little things put me off like the quality of the "silver" -- it looked like it came out of a gumball machine and almost all of it had come unglued from the wood. Also, the bag was stiff as a board which made it difficult to play (although you could change the bag). Also, the drone switch was hard to move and at times would bend a little.
I'm very happy with my Mopane Garvies with boxwood mounts. Drone switch slides easily and I'm overall more fond of the more antique style of drones. The Mopane has a lovely warm sound to it too.
I agree with Piece... try to get your hands on a few sets and try before you buy.
cheers
# Posted on March 30th 2011 by rgriffiths
Re: Border pipes
Nigel (Garvie's his grandma's maiden name) is one of life's great inovators and an obsesive perfectionist.
# Posted on March 30th 2011 by ...
Re: Border pipes
I've owned three so-called "border" chanters, none of them called by that name by their makers:
-a Hamish Moore "reel" chanter, boxwood
-a Nigel Richard "session" chanter, blackwood, w/ high B key
-a Jon Swayne "Lowland" chanter, ebony, w/high B key
All three were basically the same beast, key of A, volume halfway between Highland pipes and smallpipes, very low pressure, chromatic.
The Moore and Richard chanters played very much alike, in fact the reeds could be switched between them (the scale adjusted with some tape).
The Moore and the Richard could be played with shaved-down GHB reeds though some of the chromatics were lost.
The Swayne was a somewhat different beast, rather more quiet than the others, with the narrowest bore of the three, and a plastic Swayne reed.
I'm not sure what you mean about "dynamics", as these chanters only play at one volume level. Blowing harder or softer just makes them go out of tune or squeal. Using different fingerings just makes them play out of tune.
They're very finicky about using the exact fingerings for each note, much more so than GHB chanters. On my 482 GHB band chanter with a fairly strong reed I can finger E with any or all of the lower-hand fingers off and the note is still pretty much in tune, whereas if you change any of the lowerhand fingers on a border/reel/session/Lowland chanter the E will drop in pitch to D#, which of course it needs to do to play chromatically.
These chanters would play a full chromatic scale, including Bb
x xxx xxox
I played all of these chanters in a 19th century Halfsize Highland Pipe, the pipes that today are mistakenly called 3/4 pipes. (Despite these names, the pipes themselves are 7/8 the size of the GHB.)
# Posted on March 30th 2011 by Richard D Cook
Re: Border pipes
Thanks to all of you!
# Posted on April 1st 2011 by eto8216
Re: Border pipes
Here's a video of Fin playing a sweet sounding set of BP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pvy9qu6JxI
Something to consider is that the Moores and Richard make their pipes while, iirc, MacCallum makes Morrison's pipes. If you want wee Highland pipes look no further. I play in a session with a BPiper who plays a Garvie chanter and it is nearly as loud as a Highland pipe chanter. It's very loud. Did I mention it's loud.
Nate Banton (www.elbowmusic.com) makes beautiful Border pipes. He backs his sets up 100% and he's very easy to work with. His BP chanter is interchangable with his SSP and just about as loud. It's great for sessions.
Also, Richard and Anita Evans make very nice soundling BP. I had one for a while, but it was made out of muhuhu, which, I discovered, I am allergic to. It was a real sweet chanter, very similar to a Colin Ross BP chanter I heard next to it.
And then there's Ian Corrigan of Deerness who makes BP in A and G, bellows and mouth blown. They have a Continental sound that I like very much. He made Paul Martin's pipes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyYtjPCLB9A
I feel fortunate to have a set of Ray Sloan's BP. He doesn't make them any longer. They are not too loud for a session, but they have a big sound similar in volume and tone to a concert pitch uilleann pipe in D. Many people compliment the drone sound. Ray is a fantastic craftsman. His pipes are incredibly well made and finished. I've had these pipes for over ten years and I'm still playing the same chanter reeds (some are good for the winter and others for the summer). Another thing I appreciate about Ray is that he is very responsive to questions and emails. IMHO, Rays pipes are the only BP that approaches the UP sound. That figures, becuase he makes UP full time.
I hope this helps.
# Posted on April 2nd 2011 by bellowsboy
Re: Border pipes
Thanks bellowsboy. I'm looking for a bp set that stands ok against an accordion, to set a standard. I usually play smallpipes with the accordion and it sounds very nice, but the pipes get overwhelmed easily, specially when the other guy's having a lot of fun, playing forte and playing lots of chords and stuff.
I'm also looking to good response to chromatics. I live in Mexico City, a very high place with thin air, and it's very hard to get Cs and Fs flats on the GBP due to the hight and I'm afraid I'll have the same problem with the bp.
In the first video feat. Fin Moore they sound quite nice and a little bit louder than the fiddle, just a little bit -or maybe is it that both sounds blend into one, or the mic catches bp better?- which might be ok. Chromatics also sound fantastic there.
There's a opportunity of getting a Moore bp set from a friend that is selling them but I still haven't discarded the option by Fred Morrison. What would you say?
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by eto8216
Re: Border pipes
Well firstly I would consider an old set of 7/8th GHB with a border chanter, this is what I play , a lot cheaper ! Even for classic Hendersons in Cocus!
At the moment im using a H moore chanter. The last yr or two has been on a MacHarg chanter. I recently picked up a Morrison chanter and its the quietest of the three by far.The MacHarg is not technically a border chanter but its smaller than a standard GHB chanter.
As regards your altitude, well the Border chanter is more finnicky than a wider bore GHB chanter. In this case id maybe recommend a MacClaren synthetic reed .
If you can try the H Moore's then id def try that first. BB makes some great suggestions . but realistically try befor you buy!
good luck.
PS consider Jon Swayne set , but the waiting list!..
# Posted on April 4th 2011 by piobagusfidil