So this fella comes in last night with a 10string bazouki/citern thing. He sits for a while listening, then comes over and asks if he can sit in - we have no other strummers in. We say hello, where you from?, how you doin'? etc. Check he's in tune and start some reels.
Have to stop a few bars in as he's just strumming the wrong chords. He says he's really a guitar player and he's just borrowed the ten string thing for the evening, it's a reasonable instrument. He demonstrates that he does know G, D, and C so I says OK then, I'll play a tune that just got those chords in it. So off we go again. And off we stop again.
"I was playing the right chords though" he says.
"Yeah, but in the wrong order. You don't know these tunes do you?"
"No ... But I can just improvise yeah?"
"Yeah, you can improvise, but you have to know the tune. Do you know any Irish tunes?"
"No."
"What tunes do you know?"
"I don't know any."
"Sure you do, everyone knows some tunes. How about I play a tune you know, in G?"
So I play Somewhere Over the Rainbow, in G. Everybody knows that tune yeah? Everybody in the world. He knows it.
Except he doesn't. So we ask him to stop playing and the poor fella is really upset. I felt bad, he was actually quite a nice bloke, but what can you do eh? But then the annoying thing happens that so often happens in this oft happening scenario. He packs up and leaves.
I told you, llig, it fits with my theory that these people aren't interested in the music at all. They're interested in the social aspect of it. When they get rejected from the music they assume you must be rejecting them socially. It's difficult to know how not to upset people. Maybe you could say something like "if you're genuinely interested in playing this music, usually what we do in this situation is get you to stay nearby and have a drink with us and listen to the tunes when we're playing and do that for a few weeks or months or years or however long it takes until you have a number of tunes in your head". Then explain that you've spent years picking up tunes and that people who play instruments like guitars also have to go through the same process _because we like everyone to participate as equals and as musicians, not just as background noise_. Explain that guitarists aren't to fiddlers what ballboys are to tennis players. Guitarists and fiddlers should both be tennis players. Pretty much anyone could do the job of a ballboy but it takes time to learn how to play tennis. Maybe some kind of positive spin on it could have made this person see that it wasn't outright social rejection but his misunderstanding of the situation.
We were approached by a Guitar player recently, at our local session, who had spotted that we had no guitar that night, so he kindly suggested that he could go & get his own guitar, which wasn't too far away & then he could join us.
So we asked him what he usually played on the guitar & he told us that he usually just backed songs, so then we asked him if he knew any Irish Tunes, but of course he said no. Then he was visibly rather upset when we said well in that case no, please don't get your guitar, it would not be a good idea.
Sometimes you just gotta be cruel, to be kind.
So luckily, we were able to head him off at the pass, before he made a total eejit of himself ...... & spoiled our session into the bargain.
However, I wouldn't go so far as to call people like this names though, for often they are well meaning, but they just haven't thought it through.
I liken it to me going along to a local Hurling practice & spotting that one side was short of a player. Would I really ever consider for one second, that I could go & get a Hurley & join in, given the fact that I've never ever played that sport before & know absolutely nothing about the sport, nor the rules .... never mind how to stay safe!
I wish some of you were at my local session... I actually stopped going because of this but I would have gladly taken a guitarist who didn't know the tunes than the flute (Boehm system) player who was at my session. Didn't know any of the tunes and just played random notes along with the session. No one was cruel enough to tell her to stop and unfortunately it was actually the reason I stopped attending the session.
bizzare
I was worried about the story until I read that " I am really a guitarist but I have borrowed this for the night "
I think you were correct Llig
Although not sure if he had a guitar it would have been different ending .
A few years back, at a session in South London we had a very nice woman fiddle player, she knows a fair few tunes, has nice tone etc. She seems kind of an earthy, green, right-on, neo-hippy type.
One night in walks an Afro-Carribean guy sporting a clarinet. (There is a reason, to be revealed shortly, why I am mentioning his ethnic origin.) He starts "joining in", in the wrong key, improvising, but way out. He was stood behind a former session stalwart, who was getting all this dystonia right in the ear and putting him off his own playing. After a couple of sets he turns round to the clarinetist and asks, "Do you actually know any Irish tunes?" The guy says no, and shortly after a brief exchange, conducted quite diplomatically, he packs up, then soon after that he slinks away.
But then very soon after that the fiddle player makes a show of putting her fiddle away and marches out. She has, to my knowledge, never been back. Apparently she claims the complainant was being racist. I know the said complainant and he is definitely not a racist.
There ye go.
Never heard of that definition, theirlandais. Racism commonly refers to antipathy towards a particular ethnic group, usually defined by skin colour, which is inherited. Using that sense of the word "racism" (not "race", I didn't mention "race"), my complaining friend is not racist. Numptyist he may be, and that is fair enough.
I was going to add this to the previous discussion on group/sessionistas - but it seems equally relevant here...
The phenomenon of people only in it for the social aspect is not unique to ITM. It is common, in my experience, to all activities which people undertake for pleasure. There will always be a group who get their kicks out of pushing themselves and 'developing personally' through achieving the highest standards they can - and there will be the many others who simply want a little light relaxation, without having to think too hard. Who is wrong?
The problem comes when the two groups try or need to collaborate. At least in this scene, people who are good at what they do normally seem to be respected for that - music almost by definition is a self-improving kind of activity, and I suspect that the socialites, too, are actually improving even without meaning to.
On the other hand, the scene in my oft-mentioned 'other hobby' is quite the opposite - if you stick your head above the parapet of mediocrity, you immediately get shouted at for being 'elitist'. People with high level skills have actually walked out of mainstream participation in that hobby because they didn't like the sarcasm and inverted snobbery that went in the direction of so-called perfectionists.
You may find it hard to believe, but there are hobbies which almost delight in the cussed pursuit of low standards. Start counting blessings!
I come at this from the guitarist perspective and to be fair it is not quite as black and white. Whilst I agree it doesn't work if you don't know any of the tunes, I have been to many a session where an accomplished guitar player who does know the tune will go all free-jazz and go right off-key and back on again, which makes it hard to join in.
I have been playing guitar for 30 years, but am still very wary of banging all over a tune I don't know, so will normally stop if it's something new, then go home and listen to a couple of versions before playing it in a session.
The danger is that you get too cliquey and exclude the very people who would benefit from sitting in on the sessions. You've got to start somewhere.
G D/F# C G
ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo
C Bm7 Em C
ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo
G D/F# C/B Em7/D
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
C G/B D/A Em C
And the dreams that you dream of once in a lullaby______
G D/F# C/B Em7/D
Oh somewhere over the rainbow, blue birds fly
C G/B D/A Em C
And the dreams that you dream of, dreams really do come true_
Not an easy tune. In fact not a helpful response.
It would have been better just to explain you can't just join in ITM without having some prior knowledge of the tunes.
Ian's take on the situation is pretty accurate. People naturally want to join in. Do you think that this tendency is amplified in pursuits that are a bit outside of the mainstream?
Numpty magnets: traditional music, caving, poetry slams, fly fishing, recumbent bicycles.....eh. You can go on, I'm sure.
Traditional music SEEMS numpty-friendly, but we all know not to tread that path lightly.
I'm impressed and surprised by Michael's story. After having read several year's worth of his past posts, I would have assumed the man would have been drawn and quartered the moment he wiggled loose his first batch of uncertain chord progressions. Instead Llig gave him several chances to redeem himself. Once exposed as a clueless twit, he willingly extracted himself from the situation. However, I must point out a true numpty would have laboured on oblivious to the chaos they were causing, until violent protests forced them to stop. Therefore your poor citern strummer does not qualify as a true numpty.
The grim visage of llig, like that of a sea-eagle bearing down on a pet bunny that had inadvisably escaped its place of safety, must have exacerbated the poor chap's shyness and nervous disposition.
Not having seen the visage of llig, I feel free to imagine it.
Well, instead of starting some reels you could ask him what tunes he knows. Isn't that the typical second question for drop-ins? The lad in question seemed happy enough to admit he didn't know any tunes so around here someone would typically quickly explain tune structure and repeats, scribble out a chord chart for a jig set (checking that he knows the chords), suggest a DUD DUD right hand, start the set slow and nod the changes. From then on you invite him in to some sets (or perhaps the just the first or last tune) and encourage him to listen on others. It's what? 10-15 minutes at the start (everyone else is playing a set in the meanwhile), perhaps another 20 minutes across the evening scribbling out charts and you've given the lad a taster, and everyone's happy.
On the tourist trail in the west this sort of scenario plays out perhaps a handful of times every summer. It's not a big deal if you think of sessions as social events lubricated by music.
Someone comes to a session, does not know his instrument, does not know the tunes, recognizes his mistake, then packs up his instrument. This is not a problem.
Unfortunately he left rather than staying & listening to a few tunes.
At a now-defunct session I used to attend in W. London, there was a Lebanese (or was he Jordanian? Either way, I mention his origins because of their relevance) gentleman who showed up a few times with a pair of hand drums. He was an accomplished drummer, no question about it. But he clearly had no familiarity with Irish music - his musical background was playing for bellydancers, which he did professionallly. Now, I'm not averse to a bit of mixing of styles now and again, with mutual consent - better, sometimes, I think, to make use of the available talent than to floccipaucinihilipilficate it. But the problem with this gent was (he was probably just accustomed to playing solo) that he seemed to have no concept of regulating the volume of his playing to suit the situation.
One night, after the session, I approached him, in a friendly manner, to 'have a word'. Unfortunately, before I had managed to broach the subject, he was gushing with delight and appreciation at being made so welcome and being allowed to play despite not knowing any tunes; I don't know whether anyone *actively* welcomed him or invited him to join in, or he just assumed he was welcome because nobody told him he wasn't. When I tried to put a few ideas his way about the overriding importance of melody in this music, balancing his volume with the other instruments and allowing himself to be guided by the inherent rhythm in the tunes, he just carried on beaming. Perhaps it was too much to take in in a first lesson.
I assume somebody else must have subsequently had harsher words with him, as he stopped turning up after a few weeks. It was a pity as the idea of playing music as a social activity was clearly a delightful revelation to him and, in another situation, I would gladly have played and talked music with him. But in this situation he was actually *hurting* the music.
I once told a gob iron player to sick his iron in his gob, but he was smaller than me and I was suffering from gout, this berk was playing random notes on his gob iron, and I had asked him politely to desist and he continued, so I was rude.
Sometimes you get support from the bar. A spoons player was once making a nuisance of himself in a session and the barman came down and put 2 bowls of soup in front of him. Thankfully, he took the hint.
You have to be extra diplomatic these days. You could get a glass
shoved in your face - happens regularly in Aussie pubs. In
the USA -- get shot or taken to court sued for millions for emotional
distress or some such thing. What happens in UK or Ireland,
I don't know -- head butting or knee capping maybe?
A person who shows up to play music in a public place with an instrument he only knows three chords on deserves anything he gets, especially when he puts those chords in the wrong places. To give them credit, at least shakey egg players don't muck up the harmonies!
Although, giving him a show tune like Somewhere Over The Rainbow to accompany may not have been really fair. Many people who have a good feel for accompanying The Music find musical theater tunes a whole different kettle of fish and vice versa. But in this guy's case, I doubt it would have made a difference.
Some people show up because they want to join in on the music. Some show up because they want to be one of the cool people. The first put some work into it. The latter are the problem.
We had a bodhranist (or bohdran carrier I should say) show up once
wearing a really sharp folky kind of outfit. There was lots of
suede and fringes. He kept squinting at people trying to work out
if there were any 'hot chicks' around the place. He left after about
20 minutes.
I like playing musical theatre tunes. After the bloke left we'd got inspired by Over the Rainbow and dragged up a rake of others from the likes of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, Calamity Jane, Singin in the Rain, etc, all tunes everybody in the world knows, great tunes.
I do "Singin' in the Rain" on a Sunday night now at our session since I saw it (again) at Christmas. as II usually start the night with "Blue Moon" it fits in well.
Must think of a tune to tack on to the end of it.....
numpties
numpties
So this fella comes in last night with a 10string bazouki/citern thing. He sits for a while listening, then comes over and asks if he can sit in - we have no other strummers in. We say hello, where you from?, how you doin'? etc. Check he's in tune and start some reels.
Have to stop a few bars in as he's just strumming the wrong chords. He says he's really a guitar player and he's just borrowed the ten string thing for the evening, it's a reasonable instrument. He demonstrates that he does know G, D, and C so I says OK then, I'll play a tune that just got those chords in it. So off we go again. And off we stop again.
"I was playing the right chords though" he says.
"Yeah, but in the wrong order. You don't know these tunes do you?"
"No ... But I can just improvise yeah?"
"Yeah, you can improvise, but you have to know the tune. Do you know any Irish tunes?"
"No."
"What tunes do you know?"
"I don't know any."
"Sure you do, everyone knows some tunes. How about I play a tune you know, in G?"
So I play Somewhere Over the Rainbow, in G. Everybody knows that tune yeah? Everybody in the world. He knows it.
Except he doesn't. So we ask him to stop playing and the poor fella is really upset. I felt bad, he was actually quite a nice bloke, but what can you do eh? But then the annoying thing happens that so often happens in this oft happening scenario. He packs up and leaves.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
I told you, llig, it fits with my theory that these people aren't interested in the music at all. They're interested in the social aspect of it. When they get rejected from the music they assume you must be rejecting them socially. It's difficult to know how not to upset people. Maybe you could say something like "if you're genuinely interested in playing this music, usually what we do in this situation is get you to stay nearby and have a drink with us and listen to the tunes when we're playing and do that for a few weeks or months or years or however long it takes until you have a number of tunes in your head". Then explain that you've spent years picking up tunes and that people who play instruments like guitars also have to go through the same process _because we like everyone to participate as equals and as musicians, not just as background noise_. Explain that guitarists aren't to fiddlers what ballboys are to tennis players. Guitarists and fiddlers should both be tennis players. Pretty much anyone could do the job of a ballboy but it takes time to learn how to play tennis. Maybe some kind of positive spin on it could have made this person see that it wasn't outright social rejection but his misunderstanding of the situation.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: numpties
So many people are too proud to learn huh? I think it's a form of arrogance.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by shanty
Re: numpties
Dr, I'd have gladly had that conversation (though anyone with half a brain should be able to work it out for themselves), but he's already left.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
We were approached by a Guitar player recently, at our local session, who had spotted that we had no guitar that night, so he kindly suggested that he could go & get his own guitar, which wasn't too far away & then he could join us.
So we asked him what he usually played on the guitar & he told us that he usually just backed songs, so then we asked him if he knew any Irish Tunes, but of course he said no. Then he was visibly rather upset when we said well in that case no, please don't get your guitar, it would not be a good idea.
Sometimes you just gotta be cruel, to be kind.
So luckily, we were able to head him off at the pass, before he made a total eejit of himself ...... & spoiled our session into the bargain.
However, I wouldn't go so far as to call people like this names though, for often they are well meaning, but they just haven't thought it through.
I liken it to me going along to a local Hurling practice & spotting that one side was short of a player. Would I really ever consider for one second, that I could go & get a Hurley & join in, given the fact that I've never ever played that sport before & know absolutely nothing about the sport, nor the rules .... never mind how to stay safe!
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: numpties
Would you not consider yourself a numpty if you did go and get your stick?
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
I wish some of you were at my local session... I actually stopped going because of this but I would have gladly taken a guitarist who didn't know the tunes than the flute (Boehm system) player who was at my session. Didn't know any of the tunes and just played random notes along with the session. No one was cruel enough to tell her to stop and unfortunately it was actually the reason I stopped attending the session.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by deltasalmon
Re: numpties
A session will never get anywhere uless you practice zero tollerance.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
bizzare
I was worried about the story until I read that " I am really a guitarist but I have borrowed this for the night "
I think you were correct Llig
Although not sure if he had a guitar it would have been different ending .
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by bazouki dave
Re: numpties
A few years back, at a session in South London we had a very nice woman fiddle player, she knows a fair few tunes, has nice tone etc. She seems kind of an earthy, green, right-on, neo-hippy type.
One night in walks an Afro-Carribean guy sporting a clarinet. (There is a reason, to be revealed shortly, why I am mentioning his ethnic origin.) He starts "joining in", in the wrong key, improvising, but way out. He was stood behind a former session stalwart, who was getting all this dystonia right in the ear and putting him off his own playing. After a couple of sets he turns round to the clarinetist and asks, "Do you actually know any Irish tunes?" The guy says no, and shortly after a brief exchange, conducted quite diplomatically, he packs up, then soon after that he slinks away.
But then very soon after that the fiddle player makes a show of putting her fiddle away and marches out. She has, to my knowledge, never been back. Apparently she claims the complainant was being racist. I know the said complainant and he is definitely not a racist.
There ye go.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: numpties
for once llig i agree with you and people who are offended by the word numpty should get a reality check
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by I ♥ Dow
Re: numpties
Rudall,
Race can be defined "any number of entities (members) considered as a unit" In that sense I guess he was being racist.....
but I know what you mean....
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Theirlandais
Re: numpties
What?
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
I'll see that "what?" and raise you a "come again?".
What are you talking about, theirlandais?
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: numpties
I'll just plump for a Dundee:
"Eh"?!!
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Jamie
Re: numpties
Theirlandais ~ lolwut?!!??!
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by I ♥ Dow
Re: numpties
Never heard of that definition, theirlandais. Racism commonly refers to antipathy towards a particular ethnic group, usually defined by skin colour, which is inherited. Using that sense of the word "racism" (not "race", I didn't mention "race"), my complaining friend is not racist. Numptyist he may be, and that is fair enough.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: numpties
And don't think bad of the woman with the fiddle, that's deafist.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
I don't. Just a shame she misinterpreted my friends motives.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: numpties
I was going to add this to the previous discussion on group/sessionistas - but it seems equally relevant here...
The phenomenon of people only in it for the social aspect is not unique to ITM. It is common, in my experience, to all activities which people undertake for pleasure. There will always be a group who get their kicks out of pushing themselves and 'developing personally' through achieving the highest standards they can - and there will be the many others who simply want a little light relaxation, without having to think too hard. Who is wrong?
The problem comes when the two groups try or need to collaborate. At least in this scene, people who are good at what they do normally seem to be respected for that - music almost by definition is a self-improving kind of activity, and I suspect that the socialites, too, are actually improving even without meaning to.
On the other hand, the scene in my oft-mentioned 'other hobby' is quite the opposite - if you stick your head above the parapet of mediocrity, you immediately get shouted at for being 'elitist'. People with high level skills have actually walked out of mainstream participation in that hobby because they didn't like the sarcasm and inverted snobbery that went in the direction of so-called perfectionists.
You may find it hard to believe, but there are hobbies which almost delight in the cussed pursuit of low standards. Start counting blessings!
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by ian stock
Re: numpties
Which other hobby is that, then? I've managed to miss these references, I guess.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: numpties
I come at this from the guitarist perspective and to be fair it is not quite as black and white. Whilst I agree it doesn't work if you don't know any of the tunes, I have been to many a session where an accomplished guitar player who does know the tune will go all free-jazz and go right off-key and back on again, which makes it hard to join in.
I have been playing guitar for 30 years, but am still very wary of banging all over a tune I don't know, so will normally stop if it's something new, then go home and listen to a couple of versions before playing it in a session.
The danger is that you get too cliquey and exclude the very people who would benefit from sitting in on the sessions. You've got to start somewhere.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by mattfromnotts
Re: numpties
"So I play Somewhere Over the Rainbow, in G. Everybody knows that tune yeah? Everybody in the world he knows it."
Got curious about a tune that everybody in the world but me knows, may be to learn it (just in case) but... isn't even included in the session tunes.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by fiddlemax
Re: numpties
|G D |Em* C |G D |
|Em* |C |
G D/F# C G
ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo
C Bm7 Em C
ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo ooo-ooo
G D/F# C/B Em7/D
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
C G/B D/A Em C
And the dreams that you dream of once in a lullaby______
G D/F# C/B Em7/D
Oh somewhere over the rainbow, blue birds fly
C G/B D/A Em C
And the dreams that you dream of, dreams really do come true_
Not an easy tune. In fact not a helpful response.
It would have been better just to explain you can't just join in ITM without having some prior knowledge of the tunes.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: numpties
should've done this one, everyone over 60 knows this one...what could be more reasonable:
G Em G Em C G
There'll be bluebirds over the white cliffs of dover ....
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: numpties
Numpty Dumpty might have been a better choice of tune, Michael.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: numpties
Ian's take on the situation is pretty accurate. People naturally want to join in. Do you think that this tendency is amplified in pursuits that are a bit outside of the mainstream?
Numpty magnets: traditional music, caving, poetry slams, fly fishing, recumbent bicycles.....eh. You can go on, I'm sure.
Traditional music SEEMS numpty-friendly, but we all know not to tread that path lightly.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Michele Sims
Re: numpties
You are too polite, Michael, why not tell them to p#ss off.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: numpties
Never, ever, tell Michael that he's been too polite...
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: numpties
I'm impressed and surprised by Michael's story. After having read several year's worth of his past posts, I would have assumed the man would have been drawn and quartered the moment he wiggled loose his first batch of uncertain chord progressions. Instead Llig gave him several chances to redeem himself. Once exposed as a clueless twit, he willingly extracted himself from the situation. However, I must point out a true numpty would have laboured on oblivious to the chaos they were causing, until violent protests forced them to stop. Therefore your poor citern strummer does not qualify as a true numpty.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: numpties
why post this at all? Curious.
attention where attention is due:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjhQubdPRh8&feature=related
flyin' it., have fun.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: numpties
"Jusa" - if yer man had carried on, and not "extracted himself", he might well have qualified as a "crippled numpty".
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Kenny
Re: numpties
My point exactly Kenny - a Numpty carries on until potentially assaulted - a normal person does not.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: numpties
The grim visage of llig, like that of a sea-eagle bearing down on a pet bunny that had inadvisably escaped its place of safety, must have exacerbated the poor chap's shyness and nervous disposition.
Not having seen the visage of llig, I feel free to imagine it.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by nicholas
Re: numpties
"but what can you do eh?"
Well, instead of starting some reels you could ask him what tunes he knows. Isn't that the typical second question for drop-ins? The lad in question seemed happy enough to admit he didn't know any tunes so around here someone would typically quickly explain tune structure and repeats, scribble out a chord chart for a jig set (checking that he knows the chords), suggest a DUD DUD right hand, start the set slow and nod the changes. From then on you invite him in to some sets (or perhaps the just the first or last tune) and encourage him to listen on others. It's what? 10-15 minutes at the start (everyone else is playing a set in the meanwhile), perhaps another 20 minutes across the evening scribbling out charts and you've given the lad a taster, and everyone's happy.
On the tourist trail in the west this sort of scenario plays out perhaps a handful of times every summer. It's not a big deal if you think of sessions as social events lubricated by music.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by The Hurler on the Ditch
Re: numpties
it isn't about llig. why even worry.
if this is a class system, this is musical royalty (link above):
listen and learn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjhQubdPRh8&feature=related
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: numpties
That's a classic! The right chords - but in the wrong order!
Could have been worse though - a melody player at llig's sesh playing the right notes, but in the wrong order! As in this classic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7yb-JncKow
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: numpties
Someone comes to a session, does not know his instrument, does not know the tunes, recognizes his mistake, then packs up his instrument. This is not a problem.
Unfortunately he left rather than staying & listening to a few tunes.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: numpties
At a now-defunct session I used to attend in W. London, there was a Lebanese (or was he Jordanian? Either way, I mention his origins because of their relevance) gentleman who showed up a few times with a pair of hand drums. He was an accomplished drummer, no question about it. But he clearly had no familiarity with Irish music - his musical background was playing for bellydancers, which he did professionallly. Now, I'm not averse to a bit of mixing of styles now and again, with mutual consent - better, sometimes, I think, to make use of the available talent than to floccipaucinihilipilficate it. But the problem with this gent was (he was probably just accustomed to playing solo) that he seemed to have no concept of regulating the volume of his playing to suit the situation.
One night, after the session, I approached him, in a friendly manner, to 'have a word'. Unfortunately, before I had managed to broach the subject, he was gushing with delight and appreciation at being made so welcome and being allowed to play despite not knowing any tunes; I don't know whether anyone *actively* welcomed him or invited him to join in, or he just assumed he was welcome because nobody told him he wasn't. When I tried to put a few ideas his way about the overriding importance of melody in this music, balancing his volume with the other instruments and allowing himself to be guided by the inherent rhythm in the tunes, he just carried on beaming. Perhaps it was too much to take in in a first lesson.
I assume somebody else must have subsequently had harsher words with him, as he stopped turning up after a few weeks. It was a pity as the idea of playing music as a social activity was clearly a delightful revelation to him and, in another situation, I would gladly have played and talked music with him. But in this situation he was actually *hurting* the music.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: numpties
maybe he preferred bellydancing. Can't blame him.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: numpties
Depends on the bellydancers.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Resodan
Re: numpties
I wood prefe beli dancin 2 bein in a sesh wiv lig
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Oeidipus
"I wood prefe beli dancin 2 bein in a sesh wiv lig"
This too is not a problem, Mr. Pandy.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: numpties
Like Ben said: 'Unfortunately he left rather than staying & listening to a few tunes.'
THAT was this dude's problem. If you go out to a pub to enjoy some tunes, go enjoy some tunes.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: numpties
I once told a gob iron player to sick his iron in his gob, but he was smaller than me and I was suffering from gout, this berk was playing random notes on his gob iron, and I had asked him politely to desist and he continued, so I was rude.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by Joseph Tailyour
Re: numpties
I'm sure that both Andypandy and bushes would be happy to accompany this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzl7TCpSQ9E.
# Posted on March 23rd 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: numpties
Sometimes you get support from the bar. A spoons player was once making a nuisance of himself in a session and the barman came down and put 2 bowls of soup in front of him. Thankfully, he took the hint.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by tradshark
Re: numpties
You have to be extra diplomatic these days. You could get a glass
shoved in your face - happens regularly in Aussie pubs. In
the USA -- get shot or taken to court sued for millions for emotional
distress or some such thing. What happens in UK or Ireland,
I don't know -- head butting or knee capping maybe?
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by Hup
Re: numpties
"At a now-defunct session I used to attend in W. London, there was a Lebanese (or was he Jordanian?...)
Maybe his playing the drums too loud and without reference to the tunes was because:
(1) All the tunes were undifferentiated cat noises to him, as Arab tunes can be to us if we're not very interested in them;
(2) He was high, and actually playing to a phantasmogoric troop of belly-dancers;
(3) Other.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by nicholas
Re: numpties
I'm going to build a bigger bodhran.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by mcknowall
Re: numpties
With us it was a lad with Uilleann Pipes.
I am not joking.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: numpties
A person who shows up to play music in a public place with an instrument he only knows three chords on deserves anything he gets, especially when he puts those chords in the wrong places. To give them credit, at least shakey egg players don't muck up the harmonies!
Although, giving him a show tune like Somewhere Over The Rainbow to accompany may not have been really fair. Many people who have a good feel for accompanying The Music find musical theater tunes a whole different kettle of fish and vice versa. But in this guy's case, I doubt it would have made a difference.
Some people show up because they want to join in on the music. Some show up because they want to be one of the cool people. The first put some work into it. The latter are the problem.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: numpties
We had a bodhranist (or bohdran carrier I should say) show up once
wearing a really sharp folky kind of outfit. There was lots of
suede and fringes. He kept squinting at people trying to work out
if there were any 'hot chicks' around the place. He left after about
20 minutes.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by Hup
Re: numpties
I like playing musical theatre tunes. After the bloke left we'd got inspired by Over the Rainbow and dragged up a rake of others from the likes of Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, Calamity Jane, Singin in the Rain, etc, all tunes everybody in the world knows, great tunes.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
.. and of course most of these potential stars do not care or realise, and never will, how seriously the session musicians take ITM.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by overbeyond
Re: numpties
Uh - my spider sense detects a windup ...
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by Hup
Re: numpties
I'm with Al on this one; show tunes do not always have an obvious chordal backing, so it's not so easy.
LIkewise the carols at Christmastime.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: numpties
A chord chart for "Over the Rainbow" is at
http://www.jumbojimbo.com/lyrics.php?songid=148&type=chords
I don't have the original to hand, but it was in an extreme flat key as well as having the same sort of changes.
It looks like llig was extracting the leahcim.
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by Jack Campin
Re: numpties
I do "Singin' in the Rain" on a Sunday night now at our session since I saw it (again) at Christmas. as II usually start the night with "Blue Moon" it fits in well.
Must think of a tune to tack on to the end of it.....
# Posted on March 24th 2011 by bodhran bliss
Re: numpties
Do you do Gene's marvellously subtle tap shuffles as rim shots? If you can do those sexy polyrhythms it would be great.
(and it doesn't take much of an imagination to play Christmas Eve after it)
# Posted on March 25th 2011 by ...
Re: numpties
Now, there is a set to sink your teeth into!
# Posted on March 25th 2011 by AlBrown