Setting chords is something of an art, because not only do you need to consider the bar covered by the chord(s), but also the notes and chords of the preceding and following bars.
In other words, it's contextual.
You also need to be able to identify the tonal centre and key/mode of the tune.
I've tested quite a lot of music software applications that claimed to be able to set chords automatically.
None of them worked properly.
I sure that it must be possible to write software that could generate suitable chords automatically.
It's just that no-one's done it yet. Or if they have, I haven't seen it.
The underlying algorithm would be quite complex ...
Chord suggestions are a slippery subject.
There are a limited number of tune submissions which provide chords. As an example I typed "Am" into the advanced search. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/index.php/advanced?notation=%22Am%22
The results should include all the transcriptions which have an Am chord in the abcs.
YMMV
As a casual guitar accompanist I too find it frustrating. But you have to remember that there are more variations on chords for a tune than there are alternate ABC notations.
There is not always a 'right' chord. A tune's feel can be completely changed by substituting chords, for example a major chord for something that gives it a more modal, ancient sound. This is especially true for something like bouzouki, where descending diad patterns, for example, may not really be proper chords at all.
So it's a bit of a slippery slope. I would hate for guitarists to suddenly feel compelled to use a set of chords for a tune that was somehow considered 'gospel'.
Don't try to memorize chord charts. Period. Learn the tunes - if not how to pick them, which would be good, at least learn the sound of them. Or, better still, learn to sing them, so you can try guitar chords under them at home, and see what works.
The important thing is to know what the tune's going to do next. If you know where the tune is going, you can find the right chord. If all you know is that some yob somewhere on the internet says it's an F here, you know nothing.
Don't waste your time with any chord charts you get from a web site. If you're playing in a band with orchestrations, and you've got a band leader who hands you a chord chart, play that. If you're playing in a session, put your ears on, and stop playing if you're not hearing it.
Peter, Click on my user name, and in my profile you will see an article that will give you ideas on the harmonic structure of The Music. Although, many make a good case that this is a melodic tradition, and any harmonies are an artificial addition.
I am not sure how your robot accompanist works, but I think that if you really want to pursue this tradition, doing it with other humans would be far preferable.
But however you pursue it, enjoy your musical journey.
I'll echo Chris, Jon, and Mix, and perhaps add that you should learn the notes in each chord so you can identify possibilities just by reading the standard or abc notation. Each sequence of three or more melody notes can be accompanied by at least two different major/minor triads.
I'm liking this "Band in a Box" thing. How clever it is. You give it a chord sequence and you chooses your genre, your speed, your key, and it provides you with an instant band. I bet it's pretty authentic sounding too, I bet it sounds indistinguishable from all the "Western popular music" it purports to mimic.
What better way to keep all those who like that sort of thing barricaded in their bedrooms.
Yes, it's a box full of evils, but it's the containment I like. The band in the box is opened and out pour the evils, but it's the bedroom that then becomes the containment. Self barricaded for all eternity by user.
All good answers so far. There is nothing in this website's guidelines or FAQs that prohibits or discourages including chords in tune submissions. But the fact is, most tune players do not learn tunes with a set of chords alongside them; many players (even some of the finest) could not add chords to a tune if they tried. It is simply not in the nature of this music to follow rigid chord structures - any good backer has the capacity to spontaneously find a set of chords that will fit the tune, and any number of variations upon them. It would not do the tunes any justice to 'straitjacket' them into fixed chord sequences - besides, since any member can submit tunes, the chords could easily be wrong.
The best place, in my opinion, for chord *suggestions*, is in the comments to the tunes - you will find suggested chords there for some tunes, at least .
As a sometime chord abuser myself, I agree with Llig 110%.
Choosing what chords to play (if any). and when ,and for how long, is not a logical process. Software does logic and nothing else: "if A happens, do B except if X or Y or Z". It's very useful for certain tasks. But music is a human thing.
I do find ABC format useful. If you want tunes in ABC format with chords, save copies and edit them yourself. Or to put it more bluntly, of you want to uss chords and ABC files, learn how to make chords and learn how to make ABC files...
There will be a number of good chords for a particuar bar, and a number of bad ones.
If you are not a musician and use the bad ones (or the correct chords in the wrong order), it will stand out a mile.
If you are a musician and know your harmony, you will try to use the bad chords (and smirk knowingly).
I like what Sean B. was saying, but I think any two notes can be used to signify four different diatonic triads in their own right; first triad with the note above and the second one with the note below, and then the first two likely inversions and then any possible or likely diatonic modifications. So if I play F# and A in sequence it could fit an F# diminished chord ( F#,A,c nat)
or a D major chord ( D,F#,A), or you could look at the first triad in a different way and call it a D Major minor 7th in second inversion. The second chord could be an expression of b minor minor 7th in second inversion. On the other hand the first possibility could be F#, A, and c#, in which case you're probably looking at F# minor or D Major Major 7th (not likely, this chord is dangerous.) It's easy to see that the only ambiguous note here is the c, we cannot tell if it is natural or sharp without some sort of information from surrounding notes. such as a d# in the same measure, which would by default (99% of the time) suggest a c#. The next most ambiguous note is the D, it could be sharp which would make a diatonic chord with the two considered notes and the third below a diminished chord, [D#, F# (minor third) and A (another minor third)] and thus E would be the Major tonic. If the tune doesn't resolve to E, it's modal. I think a computer could consider all these instances and make a judgement based on context, but it would be limited in skill to the the programmer. Find a programmer who is very good at both programming and music.
Julian Cope's work on computer music composition might be worth looking at in this regard - he claims that his skill as a composer is only of limited application in his work as a programmer of composers. I don't know if he's the best judge of this, but it's interesting stuff anyway.
My mother in law, now sadly passed wrote poetry and once sent me this when she learned I was heavily involved in music and computing.
Computer Rhetoric
Now hear ye, rally ‘round, and hark:
Composer, author, bard.....
Your crafts abide in jeopardy --
Take heed and be on guard!
That electronic genius
Encroaches on your field.
No mortal corrival can match
The largesse of its yield!
One thought persists, however, --
I wonder if It knows
That poems are wrought from spider webs,
And love, and joy, and woes.
To which I can only add, "so's music." I spent lots of time as a writer of music software and a student of what others were doing. We've come a long way in the area of fuzzy logic, but as far as I know no one's yet really come up with a good harmonizer for any kind of music. You can base things on probability, but the real genius is know when to "break the rules." It is that which makes the programming so hard. Trite but Bach like chords , or Irish Trad chords are easy. Good ones no so very. Much easier really to get a computer to win a quiz game....
Basically, you need to use your ears and your brain. Even if you know the chords that fit one version of a tune, someone may come along and play a different version, that may indicate a different chording.
The only reason you need to know definitive chords for a tune is if you are playing them in a band, and you need to have a non-clashing arrangement between the musicians.
On the other hand, you shouldn't have two chordsmiths in a band, let alone 3. I did work with one ( barndance ) band that had three guitarists, and couldn't see why, except they must have all been mates. If one had gone on to bass, and one to mandolin or something, it would have been fine.
Chords for Tunes
Chords for Tunes
Is there a reason why chords are not shown in the ABC section for a tune?
I would find this very helpful as I use "Band in a Box" music software to set up accompaniments for practising on my own.
To date I have constructed chord sequences, knowing the key, but sometimes an obscure or unusual chord could fit better.
# Posted on March 13th 2011 by Peter Lane
Re: Chords for Tunes
ABC notation does support chord names:
Within the code, you can place a chord by inserting the chord name within double quotation marks:
e.g, The chord of A Minor would be entered as "Am"
Most members who submit tunes don't do that though - they just submit the ABC code for the melody.
# Posted on March 13th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Chords for Tunes
Setting chords is something of an art, because not only do you need to consider the bar covered by the chord(s), but also the notes and chords of the preceding and following bars.
In other words, it's contextual.
You also need to be able to identify the tonal centre and key/mode of the tune.
I've tested quite a lot of music software applications that claimed to be able to set chords automatically.
None of them worked properly.
I sure that it must be possible to write software that could generate suitable chords automatically.
It's just that no-one's done it yet. Or if they have, I haven't seen it.
The underlying algorithm would be quite complex ...
# Posted on March 13th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Chords for Tunes
Chord suggestions are a slippery subject.
There are a limited number of tune submissions which provide chords. As an example I typed "Am" into the advanced search. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/index.php/advanced?notation=%22Am%22
The results should include all the transcriptions which have an Am chord in the abcs.
YMMV
# Posted on March 13th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Chords for Tunes
Thanks all for replies
# Posted on March 13th 2011 by Peter Lane
Re: Chords for Tunes
Try this site/page. Plenty to chew on if you wnt more than just a tune.
http://www.lesession.co.uk/abc/abc_notation_part2.htm
Chris B.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by Ebor_fiddler
Re: Chords for Tunes
As a casual guitar accompanist I too find it frustrating. But you have to remember that there are more variations on chords for a tune than there are alternate ABC notations.
There is not always a 'right' chord. A tune's feel can be completely changed by substituting chords, for example a major chord for something that gives it a more modal, ancient sound. This is especially true for something like bouzouki, where descending diad patterns, for example, may not really be proper chords at all.
So it's a bit of a slippery slope. I would hate for guitarists to suddenly feel compelled to use a set of chords for a tune that was somehow considered 'gospel'.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by Moondyne Fiddler
Re: Chords for Tunes
Don't try to memorize chord charts. Period. Learn the tunes - if not how to pick them, which would be good, at least learn the sound of them. Or, better still, learn to sing them, so you can try guitar chords under them at home, and see what works.
The important thing is to know what the tune's going to do next. If you know where the tune is going, you can find the right chord. If all you know is that some yob somewhere on the internet says it's an F here, you know nothing.
Don't waste your time with any chord charts you get from a web site. If you're playing in a band with orchestrations, and you've got a band leader who hands you a chord chart, play that. If you're playing in a session, put your ears on, and stop playing if you're not hearing it.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Chords for Tunes
Peter, Click on my user name, and in my profile you will see an article that will give you ideas on the harmonic structure of The Music. Although, many make a good case that this is a melodic tradition, and any harmonies are an artificial addition.
I am not sure how your robot accompanist works, but I think that if you really want to pursue this tradition, doing it with other humans would be far preferable.
But however you pursue it, enjoy your musical journey.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Chords for Tunes
I'll echo Chris, Jon, and Mix, and perhaps add that you should learn the notes in each chord so you can identify possibilities just by reading the standard or abc notation. Each sequence of three or more melody notes can be accompanied by at least two different major/minor triads.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by Sean B.
Re: Chords for Tunes
I'm liking this "Band in a Box" thing. How clever it is. You give it a chord sequence and you chooses your genre, your speed, your key, and it provides you with an instant band. I bet it's pretty authentic sounding too, I bet it sounds indistinguishable from all the "Western popular music" it purports to mimic.
What better way to keep all those who like that sort of thing barricaded in their bedrooms.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by ...
Re: Chords for Tunes
Nah, your wrong, llig. Not "Band in a Box" - Pandora's Box ...
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Chords for Tunes
Yes, it's a box full of evils, but it's the containment I like. The band in the box is opened and out pour the evils, but it's the bedroom that then becomes the containment. Self barricaded for all eternity by user.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by ...
Re: Chords for Tunes
Indeed - according to the myth, the one thing that didn't escape from the box was hope ...
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Chords for Tunes
... and there was me a-thinking that a "Band in a Box" was a piano accordian ...
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Chords for Tunes
All good answers so far. There is nothing in this website's guidelines or FAQs that prohibits or discourages including chords in tune submissions. But the fact is, most tune players do not learn tunes with a set of chords alongside them; many players (even some of the finest) could not add chords to a tune if they tried. It is simply not in the nature of this music to follow rigid chord structures - any good backer has the capacity to spontaneously find a set of chords that will fit the tune, and any number of variations upon them. It would not do the tunes any justice to 'straitjacket' them into fixed chord sequences - besides, since any member can submit tunes, the chords could easily be wrong.
The best place, in my opinion, for chord *suggestions*, is in the comments to the tunes - you will find suggested chords there for some tunes, at least .
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Chords for Tunes
As a sometime chord abuser myself, I agree with Llig 110%.
Choosing what chords to play (if any). and when ,and for how long, is not a logical process. Software does logic and nothing else: "if A happens, do B except if X or Y or Z". It's very useful for certain tasks. But music is a human thing.
I do find ABC format useful. If you want tunes in ABC format with chords, save copies and edit them yourself. Or to put it more bluntly, of you want to uss chords and ABC files, learn how to make chords and learn how to make ABC files...
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by harmonic miner
Re: Chords for Tunes
There will be a number of good chords for a particuar bar, and a number of bad ones.
If you are not a musician and use the bad ones (or the correct chords in the wrong order), it will stand out a mile.
If you are a musician and know your harmony, you will try to use the bad chords (and smirk knowingly).
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by geoffwright
Re: Chords for Tunes
particular!
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by geoffwright
Re: Chords for Tunes
Chords/accompaniment etc is a hot topic here = 3 new topics (including this one).in 4 days. Even I''m getting sick of it now
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/27010
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/27019
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by harmonic miner
Re: Chords for Tunes
Having said that, I think I've contributed to all of them and have started similar ones in the past. But its interesting how often it comes up.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by harmonic miner
Re: Chords for Tunes
We can't even get people to submit tunes in the right key or transcribe them without mistakes, let alone add reasonable-sounding chords.
# Posted on March 14th 2011 by ElaineT
Re: Chords for Tunes
To quote a friend of mine, "Music comes in keys?"
# Posted on March 15th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Chords for Tunes
I like what Sean B. was saying, but I think any two notes can be used to signify four different diatonic triads in their own right; first triad with the note above and the second one with the note below, and then the first two likely inversions and then any possible or likely diatonic modifications. So if I play F# and A in sequence it could fit an F# diminished chord ( F#,A,c nat)
or a D major chord ( D,F#,A), or you could look at the first triad in a different way and call it a D Major minor 7th in second inversion. The second chord could be an expression of b minor minor 7th in second inversion. On the other hand the first possibility could be F#, A, and c#, in which case you're probably looking at F# minor or D Major Major 7th (not likely, this chord is dangerous.) It's easy to see that the only ambiguous note here is the c, we cannot tell if it is natural or sharp without some sort of information from surrounding notes. such as a d# in the same measure, which would by default (99% of the time) suggest a c#. The next most ambiguous note is the D, it could be sharp which would make a diatonic chord with the two considered notes and the third below a diminished chord, [D#, F# (minor third) and A (another minor third)] and thus E would be the Major tonic. If the tune doesn't resolve to E, it's modal. I think a computer could consider all these instances and make a judgement based on context, but it would be limited in skill to the the programmer. Find a programmer who is very good at both programming and music.
# Posted on March 17th 2011 by Earl Cameron
Re: Chords for Tunes
Julian Cope's work on computer music composition might be worth looking at in this regard - he claims that his skill as a composer is only of limited application in his work as a programmer of composers. I don't know if he's the best judge of this, but it's interesting stuff anyway.
# Posted on March 17th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Chords for Tunes
My mother in law, now sadly passed wrote poetry and once sent me this when she learned I was heavily involved in music and computing.
Computer Rhetoric
Now hear ye, rally ‘round, and hark:
Composer, author, bard.....
Your crafts abide in jeopardy --
Take heed and be on guard!
That electronic genius
Encroaches on your field.
No mortal corrival can match
The largesse of its yield!
One thought persists, however, --
I wonder if It knows
That poems are wrought from spider webs,
And love, and joy, and woes.
To which I can only add, "so's music." I spent lots of time as a writer of music software and a student of what others were doing. We've come a long way in the area of fuzzy logic, but as far as I know no one's yet really come up with a good harmonizer for any kind of music. You can base things on probability, but the real genius is know when to "break the rules." It is that which makes the programming so hard. Trite but Bach like chords , or Irish Trad chords are easy. Good ones no so very. Much easier really to get a computer to win a quiz game....
# Posted on March 17th 2011 by cboody
Re: Chords for Tunes
"not so very"
# Posted on March 17th 2011 by cboody
Re: Chords for Tunes
Basically, you need to use your ears and your brain. Even if you know the chords that fit one version of a tune, someone may come along and play a different version, that may indicate a different chording.
The only reason you need to know definitive chords for a tune is if you are playing them in a band, and you need to have a non-clashing arrangement between the musicians.
On the other hand, you shouldn't have two chordsmiths in a band, let alone 3. I did work with one ( barndance ) band that had three guitarists, and couldn't see why, except they must have all been mates. If one had gone on to bass, and one to mandolin or something, it would have been fine.
# Posted on March 18th 2011 by Guernsey Pete