The Session >> Discussions >> Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
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Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Is é an séisiúin rud iontach ón dtír seo nach bhfuil ag mórán tíortha eile. Ceapaimse gur cheart dúinn níos mó a rá ar an suíomh trí mhean an ghaeilge, ár dteanga dúchais. Ceard a cheapann sibh?
For probably the majority here i.e. non Irish speakers, this is the Google Translate version.
Why are not more Irish Shares on this site?
Sessions is a great thing from this country are not many other countries. I think that we should have more to say on the site through the language, our native tongue. What do you think?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Cúpla bliain ó shin, chuir duine teachtaireacht i nGaeilge ar bord fógraí eile den sórt sin. Bhí raic an-mhór! Cheap roinnt daoine go raibh sé drochbhéasach seo a dhéanamh. Níor thuig mé cén fáth. Beidh sé suimiúil a fheiceáil cad a tharlaíonn anseo. Tá brón orm más rud é nach bhfuil mo chuid Gaeilge an-mhaith. Níl mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge ach cúig bliana anuas. Ba bhreá liom níos mó teachtaireachtaí a fheiceáil anseo i nGaeilge!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I'll use English, so as not to butcher gaelige. Google has Irish on its translator. So, technically everyone will be able to translate posts in gaelige.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
What I think is that since most players of music that originated in Ireland that I have met don’t speak the Irish language, you best conduct any discussions in a more generally understood lingo such as English.
And to save having to cut & paste all afternoon why not use ...
Irish to English Google translation
A few years ago, the Irish people on board a further such announcements. The wreckage was great! Some people thought it was rude to do this. I did not understand why. Will be interesting to see what happens here. Sorry if my Irish is not very good. I'm learning Irish, but the last five years. I'd love to see more messages here
pkerns
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Aontaím go hiomlán libh agus tá sé go deas go bhfuil suim ann anseo. I cant see any major problem with threads in our language. There are many threads here that I cant join or add to because I have no knowledge of the subject so I just join in the ones in which I have an interest. This could apply to the Irish language posts for those that dont understand. Those that love the language would really appreciate the chance to discuss the music through Irish. I dont think there would any large amount of posts as the important discussions would be all inclusive. Is é Seachtain na Gaeilge anseo in Eireann. Nach mbéadh sé go deas da mbéadh muid in ann bheith anseo as gaeilge uaireanta..
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Yhaalhouse.. Bhí raic an mhóir does not mean "the wreckage was great" It doesn't translate well into English but it lets us know that when this was suggested before" there was big problems"
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
If one decided, on a forum about, say curries, to only discuss stuff in Hindi, most people in the world who have an intrest in Indian food would be phlumoxed, n'est ce pas?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I meant by "Bhi raic an-mhor" to say "There was a big uproar," or words to that effect. I actually love translating things back and forth several times in google translate (you can use any language you want), sometimes I change my mind about what I meant when I get five translations down the road.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
É sin ráíte agat, yhaalhouse, agus tuigim cad atá tú ag iarradh a rá, ach níl a lán áiteanna ar an tidirlíon atá cainteoirí an teanga ábalta teachtaireacht a scríobh trí mhean an ghaeilge. Tá breis is 250,000 daoine a úsáídeann an teanga go laethiúil sa Phoblacht, gan fiú amháím tagairt ar an mhéad cainteoirí sa dTuaisceart, agus gan tagairt ar na daoine nach fhaigheann mórán seans an Ghaeilge a labhairt go laethiúil. . .
Cad a cheapann sibh faoi lá trí ghaeilge amháin? Bheadh seans ag chuile duine gaeilge a chleactadh ar an suíomh, agus seans do dhaoine gan gaeilge a scilleanna ag úsáid "Google Transalate" a thaispeáint freisin!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
It is an international forum, as well as an Irish music forum, & since non english speaking members have posted here there is a good case for having posts in more than one language. The board will always have it's lingua franca. There will simply be more grammatical, punctuation, & spelling errors ... with its accompanying corrections.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Cad a cheapann sibh faoi lá trí ghaeilge amháin? Bheadh seans ag chuile duine gaeilge a chleactadh ar an suíomh, agus seans do dhaoine gan gaeilge a scilleanna ag úsáid "Google Transalate" a thaispeáint freisin!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
fluther said (via our old friend Mr Google):
That said, you yhaalhouse, and I understand what you are trying to say, but not many places on the internet that the language speakers able to write a message through the language. There are over 250,000 people use the language daily in the Republic, without even referring to the much amháím speakers in the northeast, and without reference to those who do not get much chance to speak the language daily. . .
What do you think about day one in Irish? Would likely have to practice every Irish person on the site, and a chance for people without using irish Skills "Google Transalate" show too!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
fluther: as you know I don't understand the language and we've established how dodgy Mr Google is, so is it not a bit rude to post something that plainly refers to me in that language knowing I can't understand or via a 'translation' misinterpret?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ós rud é nach bhfuil go leor de na comhaltaí i coilíneachtaí a dhéanamh comprehend WIT scéal é go bhfuil sé pointe moot mar a roghnófar an teanga nuair a fhoilsiú a comment.
Buidéil Uisce & hotw ainneoin wig gliú.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ná bí buartha, bhfuair tú an chuid ba mhó don sliocht ó do chara Mr Google. Ar aon nós, thosaigh mé comhrá as Gaeilge, agus bhí sé ar intinn agam chaint as Gaeilge amháin anseo. Ní raibh a fios agam nach raibh Gaeilge agat, ba cheart fhios a bheith agam, b'fheidir, agus tá brón orm go bhfuil tú curtha amach. Ach, níl bheidh brón orm RIABH faoi úsáid a bhaint as mo theanga dúchais.
. . .for yhaahouse's benefit. . .
(Don't worry, you got the gist of it from Mr Google. Anyway, I started a conversation in Irish and intended to speak only Irish here. I didn't know that you cannot speak Irish, maybe I should've guessed, but I'm sorry you feel offended. However, I will NEVER apologise for using my native language)
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
This website is presented in English, and only English - the decision of its owner, who is of course himself Irish. On the other hand, there is no specific rule forbidding the use of other languages.
I'm torn between feeling it is devisive to use a language which some/many/all of the contributors here don't understand, with all the huge potential for suspicion and duplicity that that implies - and on the other hand feeling it would be utter, bare-faced cheek to object to the native language of the country whose music we all subscribe to...
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
It's a tough one to call. It is a bit exclusive, as most posters here don't have Irish. But some do.
I remember visiting a friend at Sabhal Mor Ostaig, the Gaelic college on Skye, as they had some material I needed for my research, and sitting at a table with girls nattering away in Gaelic. It's great to hear the native language being preserved, but I felt a bit like a numpty. And admitting that you didn't have Gaelic, not a word, was a bit socially awkward, like admitting you're pregnant in high school. People feel a bit sorry for you and a bit dismissive, as they also figure, well, it's your own fault.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
>>as they also figure, well, it's your own fault.
Hardly, if you didn't grow up within several thousand miles (in your case) of a Gaelic-speaking area. Yes, you can learn it - I have started a couple of times, but to be brutal, my scarce time soon went into other more directly useful applications.
It's a lovely language to hear, and I completely back its use and advancement, but let's face it, you can only use it with a minute percentage of the population even of Europe, and then only in very geographically specific places. So unless you live in those places, or have plenty of time for very pointless academic exercises...
Only 1% of even the Scottish population speaks their version, after all...
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Aye, Ian. Sabhal Mor does great work, no doubt, and it's great to see the language being preserved and used so whole-heartedly. I looked into learning Gaelic at one point, as it would be a little bit useful for my research, but like learning any language proficiently, it takes epic amount of time and energy and I decided I'd rather be playing in the music or climbing mountains in my free time than cramming a language into my head. So I suppose it *is* my fault. The least forgiving people were not so much the Scots I met there, but the folks from other countries, including the US, who had become fluent.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"Rules? What rules?
Be civil. It's as simple as that.
Foul language or aggressive behaviour will not be tolerated.
This may sound a bit strict in comparison to a "real" session in a pub setting, but try to remember that the online Irish music community consists of people of all ages and cultural backgrounds."
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Dia daiobh a chairde Gael.
Ba brea liom níos mó gaeilge a leamh ar an clar seo, agus aontaim libh sa doigh is go mbeadh sé go hionteach ma bhí nasc níos laidre idir an teanga agus an ceol.
An bhfuil moran "websites" ar fail amuigh ansin do daione atá ag eiri a gcuid gaeilge a usaid?
Is mise le meas,
Cian
p.s. If all this Irish is annoying people, it's Seachtain na Gaeilge (irish week) this week and if we can't indulge now when can we?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ba mhaith liom an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim. Tá sé an-deacair. Níl aon duine a labhraíonn Gaeilge anseo sa tSualainn. Tá sé deacair go leor tryin a imirt ar na píopaí uilleann
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Je serais très heureux d'apprendre un peu d'irlandais, particulièrement si je pouvais me référer à une véritable traduction, plutot que google translate, dont le résultat est plus qu'approximatif.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
An interest in Irish language and trad music CAN go together but it ain't NECESSARILY so. Neither is it necessarily offensive to those who don't understand the language. Tá suim agamsa sa theanga ach ní raibh a fhios agam gurbh Seachtain na Gaeilge a bhí ann.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Yep Rudall.. Imagine speaking up for workers rights in this day and age where its sneered upon. This man manages to annoy all the people we should annoy and therefore is ,to my mind, a good guy.Maith an fear Micheál Ó Mordha..
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Just out of curiosity, as we're talking about minority languages and workers' rights, will Polish also be accepted? I would venture a wild guess that there at least as many Polish speakers as Gaelic speakers in Ireland nowadays (or at least were before the crunch), most of them blue collars.
If so, and if you need help in mastering the new Mustardia language, my rates are competitive.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
i think it's great. talk in irish all you want, and those who don't want to read it won't! just like i chose not click on ANY tune request or "what's the name of this one" threads, and how many people refuse to respond to those topics that have been discussed to no end.
i think it is perfectly natural for people who share a language to use it on a website that is about the music they also share. it's not rude in the least, any more than it is rude to talk to someone in chinese when you are in the same room as english speakers. anyone who thinks it is rude is making a clear statement: irish should be kept in the home. irish needs to be spoken in public, and never apologized for, or it will be gone soon enough.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
'any more than it is rude to talk to someone in chinese when you are in the same room as english speakers. anyone who thinks it is rude is making a clear statement'
The clear statement they are making is not the one you have up there. The clear statement they are making it is polite to use a common language in the company of others so they can feel included. It would not occur to me to carry on a conversation in a language other than the one shared by all in the company. It's only good manners and has nothing to do with Irish in particular, it applies to all languages.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Unfortunately Irish is doomed. So I like to hear it spoken and see it written. Use it all you like. In the bigger picture, you're the last speakers. In years to come, academics will probably come back to this thread and do studies of everyone's comments.
(Hello Academic of the Future - I predicted you would read this)
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
How in the name of Jaysus can you say Irish is doomed? We are thelast speakers? There are hundreds of Irish language schools all over the country where thousands of children have a complete understanding of both languages. It is no more doomed than this music. There are however an equal number of gobdaws that for some reason of colonial shame would like it to be doomed. Dr Dow your academic friend of the future will be laughing at you as gaeilge!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
big_tab, unfortunately language education in schools does not equal language maintenance. I understand your wish to be optimistic, but sorry to have to tell you that you're wrong. I sincerely wish you weren't.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Dr... Since the formation of the State there have been huge amounts of the anti Irish language brigade telling us the language is dead. They are often the same shower of f(ckers who hate this music referring to it as diddley aye. They have been wrong now for 90 years and they will be wrong in another 90. There are too many people enjoying the language for it to die. So when you tell me I am wrong and the language is doomed I smile and then turn on Radio na Gaeltachta.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I'm not anti Irish language, I'm pro Irish language. I would dearly like the language to live and thrive. Unfortunately, it's going to die. But if you say that explicitly then you're instantly labeled as anti-Irish language. This is a problem because it means that a general consensus forms that the language is in good health. This then becomes self-perpetuating until nobody questions that accepted "truth". This means that people on the ground become blind to what is actually happening to the structure of the language itself as it breaks down and how it comes to be used in fewer and fewer social situations as you go down through the generations.
You're right that the language isn't dead yet. And I think it'll probably survive another 90 years, as you said. But in 90 years time, it won't be the same as it is now.
So you can smile and turn on Radio na Gaeltachta, or you can turn off the radio and go and speak to your kids in Irish instead. Your choice.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Its not a choice. You can do both. The language is in better health because now peopla are choosing to speak it and have their children speak it . We have a television Station and a wonderful radio station. Of course it will be different in 90 years and so will this music but it will still be enjoyed and spoken.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"The language is in better health because now people are choosing to speak it and have their children speak it"
The people who choose to speak the language at home as a 1st language with their children are in a very small minority.
Others don't bother speaking it at home because their kids don't want to and they're learning it at school anyway, so the parents figure they don't need to help by reinforcing it at home.
Others just don't give a damn and have what they see as more important things in their lives to be getting on with.
Bottom line is, kids get a few lessons at school - enough to have a reasonable conversation maybe. Then what? Where are all the highly paid jobs out there which are only available to Irish speakers?
Put the promise of money into the equation and young people will be falling over themselves to become competent Irish speakers.
But do you really think that's what happening now? I think most students leave school and never need to (or want to) speak Irish again, apart from the odd drunken conversation in the pub for the craic.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Dr..The Irish language is in imminent danger from this new Fine Gael government. Wait till they try to enforce their promised anti language changes and if there is not a massive outcry in support of Irish forcing a climb down from Enda Kenny I promise I will get back to you and say you might be right. I believe the anti Irish crowd are way more vociferous than those of us that love the language and it might need a little fight to show you and others how strong this language is here. A new kind of strong.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I really hope so. Unfortunately it'll need more than just a fight and a climb down from Enda Kenny. Your movement needs to be armed with education as to the real facts and also needs to be organised enough to tackle the problem from the bottom up (home/family/neighbourhood) as well as top down (government, radio etc), in all levels of society. I wish you luck.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Thanks Dr.. But we dont need any facts at all. We just need to continue to love this language for its beauty rather than the need to hold it as a cultural weapon which has p*ssed people off for decades. Beir bua a Dochtúir!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Loving the language for its beauty is not enough. You can love a museum piece for its beauty. That kind of lazy thinking leads to the symbolic and tokenistic use of language, which amounts to preservation like a piece of art, not nurturing like a living, breathing thing. You're burying your head in the sand, big_tab. Wake up before it's too late and educate yourself about what you and others in your community can do. You DO need facts and you need them quickly because if you hang around, the language will progress to the next stage, and it's one of those things like tooth decay - the longer you leave it the worse it gets. Best to go to the dentist and get it fixed up early before you feel the pain...
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
My head is not in the sand . I can engage through Irish very easily if i wish. At sessions or in homes or i can choose to go where Irish is spoken in clubs all over the country. I can watch TG4 or listen to R na G any time I want. Unlike you Dr I have no fear for the language. Like this music it can be found everywhere. If I go to Chicago I can meet thousands of native speakers. I can gop into the Abbey pub any friday and half of Conamara is there yapping away in their own tongue. I am quite happy with the Irish language situation around the country and the world. If I want to speak it I can. Thats great because it wasn't as easy 30 years ago so my head is out of the sand and enjoying the language daily. Rónan beo is starting in a few minutes on R na G and I am looking forward to it. Check it out Dr and hear the language being enjoyed. Museum piece me arse!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
The real issue *on this board* may be:
Just WHY would people choose to speak a language that only a proportion of the participants understand when they clearly all share a perfectly workable alternative. What are they out to prove, or achieve, such that it needs to be inaccessible to some?
That is nothing to do with prejudice towards Irish.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
well, for one reason, ian stock, there would be a lot to be said for the proposition that learning Irish would actually improve your playing (and hearing) of this music. It is Irish music after all, and no doubt has strong connections to the language. Sometimes it might be easier to hear if you slow down the hearing and tune into some sean nos - and listen for the musical timing and rhythm as it compares to the language - that's what, I think, sean nos is actually about.
I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the Irish culture to preserve the language...by all accounts this language might have been extinct hundreds of years ago, given what is now euphemistically called "affirmative action" policies to ban it, punish the speakers of it by social and professional and education exclusion, by poll taxes, and penal laws, etc etc.
But it's still here isn't it...and it seems to be getting stronger, and 'cool' to speak. And it sounds great!
Sure, I have heard over the years people emigrating from Ireland and hearing them say they have no interest in the music or the language, etc, ...then when I have been to Ireland, I see many people who choose not to leave, of all ages, actually love the language and music and the rest.
Maybe we should judge the future of a language simply through academic analysis or through the prism of another culture.
It's great, keep it up, more the better.
And, finally - yer man who said Irish is pronounced exactly as written would be exactly right. The language in the world that is the most notorious for *not* being pronounced the way it is spelled is actually English, much to the frustration of those around the world who try to learn it from another language.
Never mind, English will probably end up quite phonetic soon as well, and in the future be totally unrecognisable by English speakers of today - much like most of us have little chance of really understanding the language of Shakespeare, let alone Chaucer.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
go back far enough historically with English and you'll end up speaking some dialect of German.
go back far enough historically with Irish and you'll end up speaking Irish.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
A very good and believable article Prof.. Similiarities between this music and the language are obvious. The difference between Gerdie Commane and Niall Vallely. Both are good but Gerdies neighbours and friends might not recognise Niall at his most inventive as the music they were reared on and fans of Niall might not understand that Gerdie rocked in his own way. Its all good and its all music . Its the same with the language. I love the conamara mans Irish. I hope Dr Dow reads the last paragraph of that excellent article. You could also compare it to the way lovers of good English abhor text English.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ultimately, both the Irish language and Irish music are in the same state - no longer relevant to society or community as a whole, the preserve of a few people who choose to practice it in the same way that other people choose to climb mountains, ride horses or learn knitting.
While you might argue that both are in a healthy state, there is no getting away from the fact that once upon a time, both were ubiquitous, in the same way that TV, pop music, and English are ubiquitous now (TV is a poor example as I happen to never switch mine on). And that it is no longer the case today.
Music can certainly survive as a "hobby", so long as there are people to play it. Language? I would be as pessimistic as Dr Dow. It's the story of minority languages across europe: forced eradication (and re-introduction) by the state is only a drop in the ocean compared to the choice of parents not to speak a useless language with their children.
But of course it's so much easier to ignore the facts and say "living tradition", "living language" when the very fact that nobody ponces about talking about the "living tradition" of football or the "alive and well"ness of English points to a rather paradoxical definition of "living".
Still there, because some people have fought/are fighting very hard to keep it there is more like.
Here's to that fight, long may it go on. And maybe both language and music will survive long enough to be once again relevant to a community some day...
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
C'est important de faire des efforts pour préserver les langues qui sont moins couramment parlées. Un gros problème viens du fait que les personnes ayant l'anglais comme langue maternelle n'ont pas besoins de faire d'efforts pour apprendre d'autres langues. Partout ou ils vont, ils peuvent trouver quelqu'un qui la comprends. Certains ont admis dans cette discussion qu'ils ne veulent pas perdre de temps a apprendre une autre langue, qu'ils ont d'autres prioritées... Je suppose qu'ils n'ont pas été souvent dans une situation ou ils ne comprennent rien. En tout cas, ici en Amérique du Nord, si plusieurs personnes parlant le francais se réunissent avec une seule personne qui parle anglais, c'est souvent l'anglais que nous allons parlé. Dommage. Cependant, dans un forum comme celui ci, ben j'imagine que la pluspart du monde sont capable d'écrire et de lire l'anglais (il n'est ici pas question de parler). J'ai souvent vu des passages en irlandais ou gaelic sur le site.
Pour revenir à la question, j'encourage de tout coeur les irlandais qui veulent échanger dans leur langues. Je promets de faire un effort pour essayer de comprendre. Mais j'avoue aussi que si la majorité de ce site est en irlandais, je le fréquenterai moins parce je ne comprends pas l'irlandais.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"go back far enough historically with English and you'll end up speaking some dialect of German.
go back far enough historically with Irish and you'll end up speaking Irish."
What a load of rubbish! And even if it were true... so what?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
No, Prof, I am not sure about it...it is, as I said, what I think.
I was actually thinking that, government spelling and grammar changes undertaken in the 1940s(?) in Ireland aside, if you were to read an old text in Irish, my feeling is that you would understand it, much more likely than a contemporary English speaker trying to understand an English text of the same age.
I would feel pretty sure too, that a shakespearean English speaker would find today's version of spoken English fairly lumpen and boring and decidedly undescriptive. It sound to me pretty much what that article is describing as the differences between Gaeltacht and "urban" Irish.
As it says:
"this suggests, perhaps, that some (but not all) urban speakers are occasionally thinking partially in English, and translating what comes to mind on an ad-hoc basis."
Yes, the poetry would be missing, I would imagine...and what happens, in the same way, with "English thinkers" playing Irish music? I would think in the very same way you will get a completely different "style" than you might hear "Gaeltacht" music.
That's something that's good for an article. It'd be high time.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
@ tirno: "What a load of rubbish! And even if it were true... so what?"
that is precisely the problem that I see time and time again.
so what? - it means that learning Irish can likely help with your playing of it in an Irish style. That's what.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
the fact (assuming it's true) that the Irish of today is closer to the Irish of 500 years ago than the English of today to the English of 500 years ago means that learning Irish can likely help with playing Irish music?
Sorry, I fail to see the relationship.
Just to clarify: I'm perfectly happy to go with the idea that speaking Irish can help playing and understanding Irish music. I just don't get the relationship to any purported "unchangeness" of Irish.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
If I wanted to learn the didj, for example, if I learned it in an culturally and lingistically indigenous part of Australia I would learn it in a particular style, because that is what I hear, regardless of whether I spoke the language.
If I learned it in England or Ireland, in isolation, it would sound completely different...and believe me, you can definitely tell the difference. Steve Cooney is a good example, he learned it in its native context, he may or may not speak Australian indigenous languages, I don't know, I suspect he probably does have a good smattering of some.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I do, and for all the non Irish speakers who express pure poetry in their music I know as many who are clueless at it despite having their cúpla focal.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
You can always see the people who have not much of a cogent counter argument...they usually say things like people are talking out of their holes. Why wear out your keyboard saying that?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
back down prof its pointless. you cant out waffle a waffler like Mr Skull. who at this point is spouting nonsense. the idea that you can tell who speaks Irish and who doesnt by listening to their music. utter ballz
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
it is not a *given*, Prof, it is a *likelihood*. There is apparently a point of difference stylistically in the language, as your article points out, so how much of the same affect influences the playing of the music, or more to the point, the *learning* of it in one cultural milieu as against another? There are certainly quite marked differences in the way the music is played between certain places, as far as I can hear it. That is what generally determines where I go to listen to it, and what recordings I like to listen to.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
skull, are you now saying its not possible to be intellectual yet foul mouthed at the same time? my goodness fella you seem to really have people summed up
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Assuming that phrasing in jigs and reels is related to phrasing in sean nos - and that phrasing in sean nos is related to understanding and speaking irish, the link is not as tenuous as all that. Just in the same way as already having 10 years experience playing classical music has to help to play jigs and reels. On the other hand, it isn't a free pass either - and mistakenly thinking it is can be a huge obstacle to ever getting anywhere.
On the other hand:
"I would feel pretty sure too, that a shakespearean English speaker would find today's version of spoken English fairly lumpen and boring and decidedly undescriptive."
Is just romantic nonsense. I'm not saying it because I don't have a counter argument - I'm saying it because it's so plainly ridiculous that no counter argument is needed.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Oh... and the reason that "urban irish" is "stylistically different" is the same reason that sessions played by people who haven't got a clue what Irish music is about are different (or deficient). It's that they are non-native speakers (I don't mean that in an "Irish suprematist" way, just as a point of fact that they are clearly not fluent), just in the same way that I am a second language speaker of German and will never naturally use correct syntax and pronunciation.
Linguistically, of course, it's fascinating, in a "what you going to do about it" way. Much the same as the most common language in the world right now is "deficient" English. English used as a lingua franca amongst millions of people who don't share a common first language. How is that going to shape the evolution of English? Stay tuned and find out.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
@ tirno: "and the reason that "urban irish" is "stylistically different" is the same reason that sessions played by people who haven't got a clue what Irish music is about are different (or deficient). It's that they are non-native speakers."
but, tirno, the "urban Irish" speakers may well be native speakers...if you are referring to the article posted above, which you seem to be, the author is suggesting that the 'urban Irish' speakers may well be thinking in English and then constructing their Irish speech...maybe not consciously all the time, but that is how they have learned it.
I don't think anyone is suggesting any "Irish supremacist" way.
It is interesting how any time the notion of a musical link or influence between Irish language and Irish music, generates such strong reactions on this board (probably elsewhere as well). I don't see the problem frankly, the music was no doubt being played in Ireland long before English was spoken by a significant proportion of the population. Sorry.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Yeah... I can just imagine peasants in Shakespeare's day
"what ho mate, how ya doin'? bit of the nighted colour today what?"
"Oh that this too solid flesh would melt!.... I find myself battling against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. I had some stillborn calves last night, there's the rub"
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Shakespearean plays were a bit like the soap operas of today...made for the masses. No radio, no television, no internet, no comics...just language, that's all you had and you had to use it, not just listen to it. It was a grand competition. Now people watch tele, and have problems with writing English. Never mind there's always a google translator and a spell checker I suppose.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm.
So you think that Shakespeare's plays were only for the upper classes? Why do you think they had a peanut gallery?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
All of them? So what? When speaking French I don't think in English and translate into French - and vice versa (or very rarely if suddenly discussing something which I usually discuss in the other language).
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I would think that peasants of Shakespeare's day would have had a much more descriptive way of speaking English than most middle class English speakers today (or possibly any English speakers)...not because of education, but because that's the way they learned it. Much the same, reading the article above, I believe, as the Gaeltacht Irish speakers are finding the urban Irish speech "awkward".
I come back to the same point, I think the same differences exist in the playing of this music for the very same reasons.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
You speak French?
Your syntax and stylistic approach formed by English (as your first language) could very likely influence your style of communication in French, I would have thought.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Its not neccessary to understand Irish to play superb traditional music. having said that Timo s counter argument is even more wrong going as far to imply that being Irish is neccessaryy to be good. If you love the music enough to immerse yourself completely in it and listen properly you have every chance to be a top player. It is the same with the language. It is as alive as the music. That means it is very alive. There is always somewhere to go if you wish to converse . Like the music and sometimes along with the music(the Oireachtas ) there are festivals and gigs thriugh Irish. It is no surprise that there are those who are not sympathetic to the language here on session.org just like there would be in every session of music. However , many of us enjoy Irish and many who dont speak it are supportive. There is no fear of us going away!
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
That's the point. I'm fluent in both. I don't speak "awkward" French because of influence from English. (At least I don't as a rule - one in every 1000 sentences, maybe has some kind of crossover effect).
I'm not going to press the point because I have no evidence beyond that article (and some knowledge of similar things happening e.g. in breton media, where some of the speakers are painfully disfluent) but I believe that the urban irish speech is awkward because it isn't fluent.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Timo.. I might be wrong and I would prefer if I was but I dont think you know much about the state of the Irish language or its influence ,or lack of influence , on the tunes.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm."
I've heard this claim all my life. Is there any basis for it at all?
It's certainly not supported by observation of the English language in use, and there's nothing about the sound pattern of English that suggests the language favors either iambs versus other feet or five-beat patterns.
Is it just something people say because we all like Shakespeare?
(I'm staying out of the rest of the argument, for obvious reasons, but this has always piqued my interest)
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Shakespeare like it, no doubt, seems like it is a ready resource in the English language, if you rearrange your syntax appropriately to take advantage of it. Can you do it as easily in other languages?
The reasons you are staying out of the rest of the argument aren't that obvious.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Excuse me Emily I just said:
"Ba mhaith liom an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim. Tá sé an-deacair. Níl aon duine a labhraíonn Gaeilge anseo sa tSualainn. Tá sé deacair go leor tryin a imirt ar na píopaí uilleann"
Translation:
I want to learn Irish. It is very difficult. Nobody speaks Irish here in Sweden. It's hard enough tryin to play the uilleann pipes
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Prof. Prlwytzkofsky: well, what about if you step into another room, then? if you noticed... every thread in a forum is a separate conversation, as separate from one another as any room is from the next. it is unreasonable to think that a thread started in irish must be stopped.
i have never been offended while hanging out with my friends and a few of them legitimately talk in their shared language for a brief moment. nor do i care if i go to someone's house in they speak in their "home language" while i am there. and no, they don't always translate. i have spent so much time in america around people from other countries WHO ALL SPEAK ENGLISH that it doesn't phase me or offend me to see an at-risk language being openly spoken in the presence of *gasp* people who don't speak it.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Good on ya, Daiv.
@ big_tab: " I can engage through Irish very easily if i wish. At sessions or in homes or i can choose to go where Irish is spoken in clubs all over the country. I can watch TG4 or listen to R na G any time I want. Unlike you Dr I have no fear for the language."
You've nailed your own problem on the head. This isn't about you. Of course you can engage through Irish very easily if you wish, and you can watch TG4 etc. But think about babies being born now, even in the Gaeltacht. Do you think that when they grow up they'll be as confident with the language as you are?
I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you because I only see this as engaging in an interesting discussion, not a personal attack or an attack on any culture. I think I'm probably as passionate about language as you are. However, from what I've read, a large part of the problem with receding languages is that competent speakers wrongly assume that their language is healthy because people of their own age group are using it and it's being learnt by kids in schools and there are radio/TV channels that use the language as a medium. Unfortunately this is like a smokescreen hiding what's really going on behind the scenes in people's private homes. Irish language activists have their hearts in the right place and are making a valiant effort to revitalise the language, but linguists well versed in cases of language shift throughout the world are watching Irish now and they're seeing the same pattern of loss as has been occurring across the globe. Now those linguists have written and published their papers (actually between the 1960s/70s and more intensively in the 1990s) and have come to the conclusion that the language has got to the stage where its death is inevitable unless some kind of major cultural movement happens in a critical mass of Irish people. That has not been forthcoming and, as you pointed out yourself, politically things seem to be taking a turn for the worse. The linguists' problem is that most of them aren't Irish and they know that if they barge in there and start telling the Irish about the state of their own language and telling them what action should be taken, they'll only be met with indignant cries of "what would you know? You're not even Irish! You lot are just cultural imperialists! Our language is just fine thank you very much --- eff off!!". Your reaction in this thread is a prime example of this and it's understandable because you obviously care deeply and that's commendable. But the linguists are watching people like you and wringing their lily white hands willing you to mobilise people and do something, like doctors and nurses watching a patient in a coma, knowing they can do nothing but wait and see if the person wakes up. I just hope that the giant wakes and people start taking action that will actually work. Suggestions as to appropriate strategies and methodology have already been suggested in the literature of the 1990s and the last decade. All people have to do is read this, take it on board, and go: "right, this is a long shot and it's going to take a lot of effort on everybody's part, but LET'S DO THIS!! Our language is WORTH IT!"
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I have found that staunch proponents of dying, minority languages have the "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude which seems to result in them becoming an even smaller, more insular group. That doesn't help preserve the language.
I don't know what can be done for Scots Gaelic, at this point, but arguing about road signs isn't it. The Gaelic road signs are nice but they're not going to preserve it as a viable language. But you can't even say that to Gaelic activists -- they'll get defensive and assume you're saying you don't support their valiant efforts to save their language. Lots of good things have happened -- Radio na Gael, BBC Alba, a handful of Gaelic medium schools in the Highlands, Sabhal Mor Ostaig, but will those bring it back from the brink? As Dow says, the real discussion of the issues just doesn't happen.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Rereading that, the road sign thing looks like a bit of a non-sequiter. A few years ago, there were arguments about Gaelic road signs in the Highlands. Whether we should have them, where they should be, the spelling, whether they distracted drivers.
'"English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm."
I've heard this claim all my life. Is there any basis for it at all?'
Hi Jon,
I think it is the case that English is relatively easily fitted into verse in iambic pentameter, but as you realise, natural language isn't regular in that way. So this claim is putting the cart before the horse.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
My experience in the highlands has been that where gaelic is spoken by the majority then you'll find things are really quite laid back regarding the presence of non speakers. Sure there will be a few jokes at your expense but they'll be presented in a warm and welcoming way and usually to signal to others in the company that you have no gaelic on you and therefore the conversation should be conducted accordingly, ie in the common language of the company.
BTW, the answer to the standard gaelic question to a non speaker on the west here, is; "well I don't know the vicar's name", try to stay dead pan when you deliver the line, when everybody is done laughing your status in the company will have been raised immeasurably.
Evangelical gaels are a pain in the arse and should be ignored, they're just outwardly projecting their own insecurities.
The relationship between gaelic and the landscape is really quite something to behold and gaelic place names usually convey practical information or commemorate people both historical (although just locally) mythical pertinent to that place. Hence why I'm in favour of gaelic road signs.
When I was a youth I was on hand to help move a few highland ponies from their home estate to better spring grazing on the other side of the glen, a piece of ground where my pal was (and still is) keeper. Anyway, it was a dirty day and as we sat in the larder having a brew (thats tea) or should I say, strupoch, the old boy who had brought the ponies over from their home ground asked me if I knew where Corrie Each was located. No idea I told him, I was sent out to look. On the hill opposite the ponies had all gathered in a concave bowl on the hill some distance from where they had been put through the gate. That was the horse corrie. The horses didn't need asking as that place, although not noted on the map, was the most sheltered spot on that hill side.
FWIW, my daughter and ex are both fluent I'm not, but I at east know the vicar's name ; )
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Aontaim leis an phointe faoi na Gaeltachtaí, agus na Gaeltactaí Albanach. . .Níl mórán fadhb ag aon duine faoi theangacha eile, ach táímíd, na gaeilgeoirí, ach ag lorg an chead ár dteanga dúchais a úsaid . . .tá na péíndlíthe imithe, nach bhfuil?
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
There is only one gaeltacht fluther, takes more than a bunch of planters in kintyre & ulster to break a culture, although their still at it big time in h'alba. For me and mine no permission is required, but for me you'll have to accept that I'm not that good at it.
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm."
I think this has it backwards. My understanding was that iambic pentameter is the poetic meter that "best approaches" casual spoken English (ie: if you're going to commit to a poetic meter, then iambic pentameter is the one that will sound most normal).
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
(need to clarify that last post)
My understanding was that iambic pentameter approximates spoken English better (and feels closer to natural) than other strict meters. I don't recall hearing anybody suggest that English had any subtle tendency to adhere to that meter... Just that iambic pentameter seemed to sound less contrived than other common meters..
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
caithfaidh muid a chonail a usaid gaeilge s'againn mar ma deanann muid dearmuid ta muid ag glacadh muid s'againn sios is fuath liom an fhac nach usaidann muid e mar ta cuid mhor charaí agam o aitanna mar an pholann agus lithuanana agus bionn said ag caint ina teanga agus is fuath liom an fhac nach bhfuil gaeilge ag duine ar bith silim go bionn se i chuir an chiall orainn go bhfuil muid lach chulture agus is fuath liom e is gra liom mo teanga agus is gra liom mo tir le do thoil mo chara an dtig liabh foilim an gaeilge do na duine agus na pasiti as an tir seo agus lig do feicann cad e mar ata a fior chulture agus a fior tir
Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Is é an séisiúin rud iontach ón dtír seo nach bhfuil ag mórán tíortha eile. Ceapaimse gur cheart dúinn níos mó a rá ar an suíomh trí mhean an ghaeilge, ár dteanga dúchais. Ceard a cheapann sibh?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by fluther
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Fair play, I might not know what you're saying but I don't understand some of the posts as it is now.
Sláinte
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Bheinn fhéin go hiomlán ina leith sin, ach an mbeadh mórán leitheoirí againn?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by amhrán
For probably the majority here i.e. non Irish speakers, this is the Google Translate version.
Why are not more Irish Shares on this site?
Sessions is a great thing from this country are not many other countries. I think that we should have more to say on the site through the language, our native tongue. What do you think?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Cúpla bliain ó shin, chuir duine teachtaireacht i nGaeilge ar bord fógraí eile den sórt sin. Bhí raic an-mhór! Cheap roinnt daoine go raibh sé drochbhéasach seo a dhéanamh. Níor thuig mé cén fáth. Beidh sé suimiúil a fheiceáil cad a tharlaíonn anseo. Tá brón orm más rud é nach bhfuil mo chuid Gaeilge an-mhaith. Níl mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge ach cúig bliana anuas. Ba bhreá liom níos mó teachtaireachtaí a fheiceáil anseo i nGaeilge!
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by pkerns
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I'll use English, so as not to butcher gaelige. Google has Irish on its translator. So, technically everyone will be able to translate posts in gaelige.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
What I think is that since most players of music that originated in Ireland that I have met don’t speak the Irish language, you best conduct any discussions in a more generally understood lingo such as English.
And to save having to cut & paste all afternoon why not use ...
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
One more time!
Irish to English Google translation
A few years ago, the Irish people on board a further such announcements. The wreckage was great! Some people thought it was rude to do this. I did not understand why. Will be interesting to see what happens here. Sorry if my Irish is not very good. I'm learning Irish, but the last five years. I'd love to see more messages here
pkerns
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Aontaím go hiomlán libh agus tá sé go deas go bhfuil suim ann anseo. I cant see any major problem with threads in our language. There are many threads here that I cant join or add to because I have no knowledge of the subject so I just join in the ones in which I have an interest. This could apply to the Irish language posts for those that dont understand. Those that love the language would really appreciate the chance to discuss the music through Irish. I dont think there would any large amount of posts as the important discussions would be all inclusive. Is é Seachtain na Gaeilge anseo in Eireann. Nach mbéadh sé go deas da mbéadh muid in ann bheith anseo as gaeilge uaireanta..
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
pkerns: 'The wreckage was great!' is that what you really said or is it a quirky Google Translate gem?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
This entire page may be translated into english by opening the address http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/26978 in the Google translator. It saves on some of the copy & paste routine.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Yhaalhouse.. Bhí raic an mhóir does not mean "the wreckage was great" It doesn't translate well into English but it lets us know that when this was suggested before" there was big problems"
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
On second thoughts maybe the wreckage was great!
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
If one decided, on a forum about, say curries, to only discuss stuff in Hindi, most people in the world who have an intrest in Indian food would be phlumoxed, n'est ce pas?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I meant by "Bhi raic an-mhor" to say "There was a big uproar," or words to that effect. I actually love translating things back and forth several times in google translate (you can use any language you want), sometimes I change my mind about what I meant when I get five translations down the road.
And yes, the wreckage was great!
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by pkerns
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
É sin ráíte agat, yhaalhouse, agus tuigim cad atá tú ag iarradh a rá, ach níl a lán áiteanna ar an tidirlíon atá cainteoirí an teanga ábalta teachtaireacht a scríobh trí mhean an ghaeilge. Tá breis is 250,000 daoine a úsáídeann an teanga go laethiúil sa Phoblacht, gan fiú amháím tagairt ar an mhéad cainteoirí sa dTuaisceart, agus gan tagairt ar na daoine nach fhaigheann mórán seans an Ghaeilge a labhairt go laethiúil. . .
Cad a cheapann sibh faoi lá trí ghaeilge amháin? Bheadh seans ag chuile duine gaeilge a chleactadh ar an suíomh, agus seans do dhaoine gan gaeilge a scilleanna ag úsáid "Google Transalate" a thaispeáint freisin!
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by fluther
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
It is an international forum, as well as an Irish music forum, & since non english speaking members have posted here there is a good case for having posts in more than one language. The board will always have it's lingua franca. There will simply be more grammatical, punctuation, & spelling errors ... with its accompanying corrections.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Cad a cheapann sibh faoi lá trí ghaeilge amháin? Bheadh seans ag chuile duine gaeilge a chleactadh ar an suíomh, agus seans do dhaoine gan gaeilge a scilleanna ag úsáid "Google Transalate" a thaispeáint freisin!
I like that! Which day?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
fluther said (via our old friend Mr Google):
That said, you yhaalhouse, and I understand what you are trying to say, but not many places on the internet that the language speakers able to write a message through the language. There are over 250,000 people use the language daily in the Republic, without even referring to the much amháím speakers in the northeast, and without reference to those who do not get much chance to speak the language daily. . .
What do you think about day one in Irish? Would likely have to practice every Irish person on the site, and a chance for people without using irish Skills "Google Transalate" show too!
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
fluther: as you know I don't understand the language and we've established how dodgy Mr Google is, so is it not a bit rude to post something that plainly refers to me in that language knowing I can't understand or via a 'translation' misinterpret?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ós rud é nach bhfuil go leor de na comhaltaí i coilíneachtaí a dhéanamh comprehend WIT scéal é go bhfuil sé pointe moot mar a roghnófar an teanga nuair a fhoilsiú a comment.
Buidéil Uisce & hotw ainneoin wig gliú.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ná bí buartha, bhfuair tú an chuid ba mhó don sliocht ó do chara Mr Google. Ar aon nós, thosaigh mé comhrá as Gaeilge, agus bhí sé ar intinn agam chaint as Gaeilge amháin anseo. Ní raibh a fios agam nach raibh Gaeilge agat, ba cheart fhios a bheith agam, b'fheidir, agus tá brón orm go bhfuil tú curtha amach. Ach, níl bheidh brón orm RIABH faoi úsáid a bhaint as mo theanga dúchais.
. . .for yhaahouse's benefit. . .
(Don't worry, you got the gist of it from Mr Google. Anyway, I started a conversation in Irish and intended to speak only Irish here. I didn't know that you cannot speak Irish, maybe I should've guessed, but I'm sorry you feel offended. However, I will NEVER apologise for using my native language)
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by fluther
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
This website is presented in English, and only English - the decision of its owner, who is of course himself Irish. On the other hand, there is no specific rule forbidding the use of other languages.
I'm torn between feeling it is devisive to use a language which some/many/all of the contributors here don't understand, with all the huge potential for suspicion and duplicity that that implies - and on the other hand feeling it would be utter, bare-faced cheek to object to the native language of the country whose music we all subscribe to...
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by ian stock
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
It's a tough one to call. It is a bit exclusive, as most posters here don't have Irish. But some do.
I remember visiting a friend at Sabhal Mor Ostaig, the Gaelic college on Skye, as they had some material I needed for my research, and sitting at a table with girls nattering away in Gaelic. It's great to hear the native language being preserved, but I felt a bit like a numpty. And admitting that you didn't have Gaelic, not a word, was a bit socially awkward, like admitting you're pregnant in high school. People feel a bit sorry for you and a bit dismissive, as they also figure, well, it's your own fault.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
>>as they also figure, well, it's your own fault.
Hardly, if you didn't grow up within several thousand miles (in your case) of a Gaelic-speaking area. Yes, you can learn it - I have started a couple of times, but to be brutal, my scarce time soon went into other more directly useful applications.
It's a lovely language to hear, and I completely back its use and advancement, but let's face it, you can only use it with a minute percentage of the population even of Europe, and then only in very geographically specific places. So unless you live in those places, or have plenty of time for very pointless academic exercises...
Only 1% of even the Scottish population speaks their version, after all...
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by ian stock
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Aye, Ian. Sabhal Mor does great work, no doubt, and it's great to see the language being preserved and used so whole-heartedly. I looked into learning Gaelic at one point, as it would be a little bit useful for my research, but like learning any language proficiently, it takes epic amount of time and energy and I decided I'd rather be playing in the music or climbing mountains in my free time than cramming a language into my head. So I suppose it *is* my fault. The least forgiving people were not so much the Scots I met there, but the folks from other countries, including the US, who had become fluent.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"Rules? What rules?
Be civil. It's as simple as that.
Foul language or aggressive behaviour will not be tolerated.
This may sound a bit strict in comparison to a "real" session in a pub setting, but try to remember that the online Irish music community consists of people of all ages and cultural backgrounds."
And that's a FAQ.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by gam
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Hmmmmmm,
A close friend of mine tried to teach me Irish. I remember his best line was.
"It's easy, everything is pronounced just like its written"
Hmmmmmmmmm,
More chance catching smoke in a net I'm afraid.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by ormepipes
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Dia daiobh a chairde Gael.
Ba brea liom níos mó gaeilge a leamh ar an clar seo, agus aontaim libh sa doigh is go mbeadh sé go hionteach ma bhí nasc níos laidre idir an teanga agus an ceol.
An bhfuil moran "websites" ar fail amuigh ansin do daione atá ag eiri a gcuid gaeilge a usaid?
Is mise le meas,
Cian
p.s. If all this Irish is annoying people, it's Seachtain na Gaeilge (irish week) this week and if we can't indulge now when can we?
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Cian O Gallchobhair
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ba mhaith liom an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim. Tá sé an-deacair. Níl aon duine a labhraíonn Gaeilge anseo sa tSualainn. Tá sé deacair go leor tryin a imirt ar na píopaí uilleann
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Steamwilkes
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Maybe you can just add a wee translation.
I like to know what people are writing.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Je serais très heureux d'apprendre un peu d'irlandais, particulièrement si je pouvais me référer à une véritable traduction, plutot que google translate, dont le résultat est plus qu'approximatif.
In other words, I agree with TSS (as usual).
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Pas d'elle yeux Rhone que nous.
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by gam
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
C'est fantastique pour voir loads of languages ar suíómh iditrlíon amháin. . .
# Posted on March 7th 2011 by fluther
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
An interest in Irish language and trad music CAN go together but it ain't NECESSARILY so. Neither is it necessarily offensive to those who don't understand the language. Tá suim agamsa sa theanga ach ní raibh a fhios agam gurbh Seachtain na Gaeilge a bhí ann.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by harmonic miner
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Coiméad go shimplí e, le bhur dtoil.
I can't get the bloody sineadh fada working properly!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by RockyRoader
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
A good site for learning/discussion of Irish isis http://www.daltai.com/home.htm
They have an Irish-Only forum and an Irish/English forum, and are very helpful with any queries you have.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by harmonic miner
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Illigitimes non carborundum, n'est-ce pas?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Steve Shaw
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I am up to discuss curries in Hindi, haha :D
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by tradguy
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
this is th e language I speak:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgNuSEZ8CDw&feature=player_detailpage
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Yep Rudall.. Imagine speaking up for workers rights in this day and age where its sneered upon. This man manages to annoy all the people we should annoy and therefore is ,to my mind, a good guy.Maith an fear Micheál Ó Mordha..
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Just out of curiosity, as we're talking about minority languages and workers' rights, will Polish also be accepted? I would venture a wild guess that there at least as many Polish speakers as Gaelic speakers in Ireland nowadays (or at least were before the crunch), most of them blue collars.
If so, and if you need help in mastering the new Mustardia language, my rates are competitive.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Janek
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
i think it's great. talk in irish all you want, and those who don't want to read it won't! just like i chose not click on ANY tune request or "what's the name of this one" threads, and how many people refuse to respond to those topics that have been discussed to no end.
i think it is perfectly natural for people who share a language to use it on a website that is about the music they also share. it's not rude in the least, any more than it is rude to talk to someone in chinese when you are in the same room as english speakers. anyone who thinks it is rude is making a clear statement: irish should be kept in the home. irish needs to be spoken in public, and never apologized for, or it will be gone soon enough.
所以，当你在用一个爱尔兰音乐的网站，别高速一个爱尔兰人“别用你的语言！”
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by daiv
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
'any more than it is rude to talk to someone in chinese when you are in the same room as english speakers. anyone who thinks it is rude is making a clear statement'
The clear statement they are making is not the one you have up there. The clear statement they are making it is polite to use a common language in the company of others so they can feel included. It would not occur to me to carry on a conversation in a language other than the one shared by all in the company. It's only good manners and has nothing to do with Irish in particular, it applies to all languages.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Unfortunately Irish is doomed. So I like to hear it spoken and see it written. Use it all you like. In the bigger picture, you're the last speakers. In years to come, academics will probably come back to this thread and do studies of everyone's comments.
(Hello Academic of the Future - I predicted you would read this)
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Teehee, Dow.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
How in the name of Jaysus can you say Irish is doomed? We are thelast speakers? There are hundreds of Irish language schools all over the country where thousands of children have a complete understanding of both languages. It is no more doomed than this music. There are however an equal number of gobdaws that for some reason of colonial shame would like it to be doomed. Dr Dow your academic friend of the future will be laughing at you as gaeilge!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
In fact, lets help the future academic with some tags...
Tags: IRISH GAELIC LANGUAGE DEATH SHIFT ATTITUDES LAST SPEAKERS PRESERVATION TRIED HARD MAINTENANCE LINGUA FRANCA MINORITY EXTINCTION FECKED
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
¡Hola! Nosotros practicamos español en mi colegio, es muy bien, creo que es muy fantástico. ¡Nosotros viaje el Bilbao!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by mandolinist
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
big_tab, unfortunately language education in schools does not equal language maintenance. I understand your wish to be optimistic, but sorry to have to tell you that you're wrong. I sincerely wish you weren't.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Dr... Since the formation of the State there have been huge amounts of the anti Irish language brigade telling us the language is dead. They are often the same shower of f(ckers who hate this music referring to it as diddley aye. They have been wrong now for 90 years and they will be wrong in another 90. There are too many people enjoying the language for it to die. So when you tell me I am wrong and the language is doomed I smile and then turn on Radio na Gaeltachta.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I'm not anti Irish language, I'm pro Irish language. I would dearly like the language to live and thrive. Unfortunately, it's going to die. But if you say that explicitly then you're instantly labeled as anti-Irish language. This is a problem because it means that a general consensus forms that the language is in good health. This then becomes self-perpetuating until nobody questions that accepted "truth". This means that people on the ground become blind to what is actually happening to the structure of the language itself as it breaks down and how it comes to be used in fewer and fewer social situations as you go down through the generations.
You're right that the language isn't dead yet. And I think it'll probably survive another 90 years, as you said. But in 90 years time, it won't be the same as it is now.
So you can smile and turn on Radio na Gaeltachta, or you can turn off the radio and go and speak to your kids in Irish instead. Your choice.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
@mandolinist: ¿Vienes a Bilbao? ¿de verdad?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by murfbox
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Its not a choice. You can do both. The language is in better health because now peopla are choosing to speak it and have their children speak it . We have a television Station and a wonderful radio station. Of course it will be different in 90 years and so will this music but it will still be enjoyed and spoken.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"The language is in better health because now people are choosing to speak it and have their children speak it"
The people who choose to speak the language at home as a 1st language with their children are in a very small minority.
Others don't bother speaking it at home because their kids don't want to and they're learning it at school anyway, so the parents figure they don't need to help by reinforcing it at home.
Others just don't give a damn and have what they see as more important things in their lives to be getting on with.
Bottom line is, kids get a few lessons at school - enough to have a reasonable conversation maybe. Then what? Where are all the highly paid jobs out there which are only available to Irish speakers?
Put the promise of money into the equation and young people will be falling over themselves to become competent Irish speakers.
But do you really think that's what happening now? I think most students leave school and never need to (or want to) speak Irish again, apart from the odd drunken conversation in the pub for the craic.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Dr..The Irish language is in imminent danger from this new Fine Gael government. Wait till they try to enforce their promised anti language changes and if there is not a massive outcry in support of Irish forcing a climb down from Enda Kenny I promise I will get back to you and say you might be right. I believe the anti Irish crowd are way more vociferous than those of us that love the language and it might need a little fight to show you and others how strong this language is here. A new kind of strong.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I really hope so. Unfortunately it'll need more than just a fight and a climb down from Enda Kenny. Your movement needs to be armed with education as to the real facts and also needs to be organised enough to tackle the problem from the bottom up (home/family/neighbourhood) as well as top down (government, radio etc), in all levels of society. I wish you luck.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Thanks Dr.. But we dont need any facts at all. We just need to continue to love this language for its beauty rather than the need to hold it as a cultural weapon which has p*ssed people off for decades. Beir bua a Dochtúir!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Loving the language for its beauty is not enough. You can love a museum piece for its beauty. That kind of lazy thinking leads to the symbolic and tokenistic use of language, which amounts to preservation like a piece of art, not nurturing like a living, breathing thing. You're burying your head in the sand, big_tab. Wake up before it's too late and educate yourself about what you and others in your community can do. You DO need facts and you need them quickly because if you hang around, the language will progress to the next stage, and it's one of those things like tooth decay - the longer you leave it the worse it gets. Best to go to the dentist and get it fixed up early before you feel the pain...
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
My head is not in the sand . I can engage through Irish very easily if i wish. At sessions or in homes or i can choose to go where Irish is spoken in clubs all over the country. I can watch TG4 or listen to R na G any time I want. Unlike you Dr I have no fear for the language. Like this music it can be found everywhere. If I go to Chicago I can meet thousands of native speakers. I can gop into the Abbey pub any friday and half of Conamara is there yapping away in their own tongue. I am quite happy with the Irish language situation around the country and the world. If I want to speak it I can. Thats great because it wasn't as easy 30 years ago so my head is out of the sand and enjoying the language daily. Rónan beo is starting in a few minutes on R na G and I am looking forward to it. Check it out Dr and hear the language being enjoyed. Museum piece me arse!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
The real issue *on this board* may be:
Just WHY would people choose to speak a language that only a proportion of the participants understand when they clearly all share a perfectly workable alternative. What are they out to prove, or achieve, such that it needs to be inaccessible to some?
That is nothing to do with prejudice towards Irish.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by ian stock
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
well, for one reason, ian stock, there would be a lot to be said for the proposition that learning Irish would actually improve your playing (and hearing) of this music. It is Irish music after all, and no doubt has strong connections to the language. Sometimes it might be easier to hear if you slow down the hearing and tune into some sean nos - and listen for the musical timing and rhythm as it compares to the language - that's what, I think, sean nos is actually about.
I wouldn't underestimate the ability of the Irish culture to preserve the language...by all accounts this language might have been extinct hundreds of years ago, given what is now euphemistically called "affirmative action" policies to ban it, punish the speakers of it by social and professional and education exclusion, by poll taxes, and penal laws, etc etc.
But it's still here isn't it...and it seems to be getting stronger, and 'cool' to speak. And it sounds great!
Sure, I have heard over the years people emigrating from Ireland and hearing them say they have no interest in the music or the language, etc, ...then when I have been to Ireland, I see many people who choose not to leave, of all ages, actually love the language and music and the rest.
Maybe we should judge the future of a language simply through academic analysis or through the prism of another culture.
It's great, keep it up, more the better.
And, finally - yer man who said Irish is pronounced exactly as written would be exactly right. The language in the world that is the most notorious for *not* being pronounced the way it is spelled is actually English, much to the frustration of those around the world who try to learn it from another language.
Never mind, English will probably end up quite phonetic soon as well, and in the future be totally unrecognisable by English speakers of today - much like most of us have little chance of really understanding the language of Shakespeare, let alone Chaucer.
I don't think Irish suffers from that!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
go back far enough historically with English and you'll end up speaking some dialect of German.
go back far enough historically with Irish and you'll end up speaking Irish.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
'I don't think Irish suffers from that!'
Are you sure about that?
http://www.gaelport.com/sonrai-nuachta?NewsItemID=3726
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
A very good and believable article Prof.. Similiarities between this music and the language are obvious. The difference between Gerdie Commane and Niall Vallely. Both are good but Gerdies neighbours and friends might not recognise Niall at his most inventive as the music they were reared on and fans of Niall might not understand that Gerdie rocked in his own way. Its all good and its all music . Its the same with the language. I love the conamara mans Irish. I hope Dr Dow reads the last paragraph of that excellent article. You could also compare it to the way lovers of good English abhor text English.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Ultimately, both the Irish language and Irish music are in the same state - no longer relevant to society or community as a whole, the preserve of a few people who choose to practice it in the same way that other people choose to climb mountains, ride horses or learn knitting.
While you might argue that both are in a healthy state, there is no getting away from the fact that once upon a time, both were ubiquitous, in the same way that TV, pop music, and English are ubiquitous now (TV is a poor example as I happen to never switch mine on). And that it is no longer the case today.
Music can certainly survive as a "hobby", so long as there are people to play it. Language? I would be as pessimistic as Dr Dow. It's the story of minority languages across europe: forced eradication (and re-introduction) by the state is only a drop in the ocean compared to the choice of parents not to speak a useless language with their children.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2007/jan/05/ireland.features
But of course it's so much easier to ignore the facts and say "living tradition", "living language" when the very fact that nobody ponces about talking about the "living tradition" of football or the "alive and well"ness of English points to a rather paradoxical definition of "living".
Still there, because some people have fought/are fighting very hard to keep it there is more like.
Here's to that fight, long may it go on. And maybe both language and music will survive long enough to be once again relevant to a community some day...
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
C'est important de faire des efforts pour préserver les langues qui sont moins couramment parlées. Un gros problème viens du fait que les personnes ayant l'anglais comme langue maternelle n'ont pas besoins de faire d'efforts pour apprendre d'autres langues. Partout ou ils vont, ils peuvent trouver quelqu'un qui la comprends. Certains ont admis dans cette discussion qu'ils ne veulent pas perdre de temps a apprendre une autre langue, qu'ils ont d'autres prioritées... Je suppose qu'ils n'ont pas été souvent dans une situation ou ils ne comprennent rien. En tout cas, ici en Amérique du Nord, si plusieurs personnes parlant le francais se réunissent avec une seule personne qui parle anglais, c'est souvent l'anglais que nous allons parlé. Dommage. Cependant, dans un forum comme celui ci, ben j'imagine que la pluspart du monde sont capable d'écrire et de lire l'anglais (il n'est ici pas question de parler). J'ai souvent vu des passages en irlandais ou gaelic sur le site.
Pour revenir à la question, j'encourage de tout coeur les irlandais qui veulent échanger dans leur langues. Je promets de faire un effort pour essayer de comprendre. Mais j'avoue aussi que si la majorité de ce site est en irlandais, je le fréquenterai moins parce je ne comprends pas l'irlandais.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Dr.Carabus
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"go back far enough historically with English and you'll end up speaking some dialect of German.
go back far enough historically with Irish and you'll end up speaking Irish."
What a load of rubbish! And even if it were true... so what?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
No, Prof, I am not sure about it...it is, as I said, what I think.
I was actually thinking that, government spelling and grammar changes undertaken in the 1940s(?) in Ireland aside, if you were to read an old text in Irish, my feeling is that you would understand it, much more likely than a contemporary English speaker trying to understand an English text of the same age.
I would feel pretty sure too, that a shakespearean English speaker would find today's version of spoken English fairly lumpen and boring and decidedly undescriptive. It sound to me pretty much what that article is describing as the differences between Gaeltacht and "urban" Irish.
As it says:
"this suggests, perhaps, that some (but not all) urban speakers are occasionally thinking partially in English, and translating what comes to mind on an ad-hoc basis."
Yes, the poetry would be missing, I would imagine...and what happens, in the same way, with "English thinkers" playing Irish music? I would think in the very same way you will get a completely different "style" than you might hear "Gaeltacht" music.
That's something that's good for an article. It'd be high time.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
@ tirno: "What a load of rubbish! And even if it were true... so what?"
that is precisely the problem that I see time and time again.
so what? - it means that learning Irish can likely help with your playing of it in an Irish style. That's what.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
As Jackie Daly would say, look at the back of the man's pants moving: he's talking out of his hole.
I play music all the time with people who do not have any Irish and their music is not lacking in poetry.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Yes, and you play the music in Ireland don't you.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
the fact (assuming it's true) that the Irish of today is closer to the Irish of 500 years ago than the English of today to the English of 500 years ago means that learning Irish can likely help with playing Irish music?
Sorry, I fail to see the relationship.
Just to clarify: I'm perfectly happy to go with the idea that speaking Irish can help playing and understanding Irish music. I just don't get the relationship to any purported "unchangeness" of Irish.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
look at the back of the man's pants moving: he's talking out of his hole.
..
well said.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
If I wanted to learn the didj, for example, if I learned it in an culturally and lingistically indigenous part of Australia I would learn it in a particular style, because that is what I hear, regardless of whether I spoke the language.
If I learned it in England or Ireland, in isolation, it would sound completely different...and believe me, you can definitely tell the difference. Steve Cooney is a good example, he learned it in its native context, he may or may not speak Australian indigenous languages, I don't know, I suspect he probably does have a good smattering of some.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I do, and for all the non Irish speakers who express pure poetry in their music I know as many who are clueless at it despite having their cúpla focal.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
You can always see the people who have not much of a cogent counter argument...they usually say things like people are talking out of their holes. Why wear out your keyboard saying that?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
back down prof its pointless. you cant out waffle a waffler like Mr Skull. who at this point is spouting nonsense. the idea that you can tell who speaks Irish and who doesnt by listening to their music. utter ballz
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
it is not a *given*, Prof, it is a *likelihood*. There is apparently a point of difference stylistically in the language, as your article points out, so how much of the same affect influences the playing of the music, or more to the point, the *learning* of it in one cultural milieu as against another? There are certainly quite marked differences in the way the music is played between certain places, as far as I can hear it. That is what generally determines where I go to listen to it, and what recordings I like to listen to.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
skull, are you now saying its not possible to be intellectual yet foul mouthed at the same time? my goodness fella you seem to really have people summed up
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
that's not what was said Miss Mulligan. Read it again, getting it that wrong is very superficial.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I think your pants might be moving, Mullo.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Calm yourself. i just liked the quote ..
As Jackie Daly would say, look at the back of the man's pants moving: he's talking out of his hole ..
.. classic
you are still a waffler. do continue though its quite interesting in a funny sort of way
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Assuming that phrasing in jigs and reels is related to phrasing in sean nos - and that phrasing in sean nos is related to understanding and speaking irish, the link is not as tenuous as all that. Just in the same way as already having 10 years experience playing classical music has to help to play jigs and reels. On the other hand, it isn't a free pass either - and mistakenly thinking it is can be a huge obstacle to ever getting anywhere.
On the other hand:
"I would feel pretty sure too, that a shakespearean English speaker would find today's version of spoken English fairly lumpen and boring and decidedly undescriptive."
Is just romantic nonsense. I'm not saying it because I don't have a counter argument - I'm saying it because it's so plainly ridiculous that no counter argument is needed.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
its all there for you to digest, Mullo...but you have to read it first (and not miss the point.)
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
how very subjective, tirno.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Il pass. If I wanted to digest verbose waffle, I would just strike up a conversation with myself.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
don't do it, you'll end up misinterpreting each other.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
haha.. touche
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Oh... and the reason that "urban irish" is "stylistically different" is the same reason that sessions played by people who haven't got a clue what Irish music is about are different (or deficient). It's that they are non-native speakers (I don't mean that in an "Irish suprematist" way, just as a point of fact that they are clearly not fluent), just in the same way that I am a second language speaker of German and will never naturally use correct syntax and pronunciation.
Linguistically, of course, it's fascinating, in a "what you going to do about it" way. Much the same as the most common language in the world right now is "deficient" English. English used as a lingua franca amongst millions of people who don't share a common first language. How is that going to shape the evolution of English? Stay tuned and find out.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
@ tirno: "and the reason that "urban irish" is "stylistically different" is the same reason that sessions played by people who haven't got a clue what Irish music is about are different (or deficient). It's that they are non-native speakers."
but, tirno, the "urban Irish" speakers may well be native speakers...if you are referring to the article posted above, which you seem to be, the author is suggesting that the 'urban Irish' speakers may well be thinking in English and then constructing their Irish speech...maybe not consciously all the time, but that is how they have learned it.
I don't think anyone is suggesting any "Irish supremacist" way.
It is interesting how any time the notion of a musical link or influence between Irish language and Irish music, generates such strong reactions on this board (probably elsewhere as well). I don't see the problem frankly, the music was no doubt being played in Ireland long before English was spoken by a significant proportion of the population. Sorry.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Yeah... I can just imagine peasants in Shakespeare's day
"what ho mate, how ya doin'? bit of the nighted colour today what?"
"Oh that this too solid flesh would melt!.... I find myself battling against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. I had some stillborn calves last night, there's the rub"
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"the author is suggesting that the 'urban Irish' speakers may well be thinking in English and then constructing their Irish speech..."
Pretty much the definition of "second language" right there.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Shakespearean plays were a bit like the soap operas of today...made for the masses. No radio, no television, no internet, no comics...just language, that's all you had and you had to use it, not just listen to it. It was a grand competition. Now people watch tele, and have problems with writing English. Never mind there's always a google translator and a spell checker I suppose.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
tirno, how many of the Gaeltacht Irish speakers know English do you think?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Of course, the masses in Shakespeare's time had the money and spare time to go to the theatre. Not to mention they always spoke in iambic pentametre.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm.
So you think that Shakespeare's plays were only for the upper classes? Why do you think they had a peanut gallery?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
All of them? So what? When speaking French I don't think in English and translate into French - and vice versa (or very rarely if suddenly discussing something which I usually discuss in the other language).
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I would think that peasants of Shakespeare's day would have had a much more descriptive way of speaking English than most middle class English speakers today (or possibly any English speakers)...not because of education, but because that's the way they learned it. Much the same, reading the article above, I believe, as the Gaeltacht Irish speakers are finding the urban Irish speech "awkward".
I come back to the same point, I think the same differences exist in the playing of this music for the very same reasons.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
You speak French?
Your syntax and stylistic approach formed by English (as your first language) could very likely influence your style of communication in French, I would have thought.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Its not neccessary to understand Irish to play superb traditional music. having said that Timo s counter argument is even more wrong going as far to imply that being Irish is neccessaryy to be good. If you love the music enough to immerse yourself completely in it and listen properly you have every chance to be a top player. It is the same with the language. It is as alive as the music. That means it is very alive. There is always somewhere to go if you wish to converse . Like the music and sometimes along with the music(the Oireachtas ) there are festivals and gigs thriugh Irish. It is no surprise that there are those who are not sympathetic to the language here on session.org just like there would be in every session of music. However , many of us enjoy Irish and many who dont speak it are supportive. There is no fear of us going away!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
That's the point. I'm fluent in both. I don't speak "awkward" French because of influence from English. (At least I don't as a rule - one in every 1000 sentences, maybe has some kind of crossover effect).
I'm not going to press the point because I have no evidence beyond that article (and some knowledge of similar things happening e.g. in breton media, where some of the speakers are painfully disfluent) but I believe that the urban irish speech is awkward because it isn't fluent.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"having said that Timo s counter argument is even more wrong going as far to imply that being Irish is neccessaryy to be good"
crap. I never said anything of the sort.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Tirno
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
...and what does the author think is the reason?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I don't think he said you 'said' it, I think he said you 'implied' it.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Timo.. I might be wrong and I would prefer if I was but I dont think you know much about the state of the Irish language or its influence ,or lack of influence , on the tunes.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
gearr agus curlies, tirno, gearr agus curlies!
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm."
I've heard this claim all my life. Is there any basis for it at all?
It's certainly not supported by observation of the English language in use, and there's nothing about the sound pattern of English that suggests the language favors either iambs versus other feet or five-beat patterns.
Is it just something people say because we all like Shakespeare?
(I'm staying out of the rest of the argument, for obvious reasons, but this has always piqued my interest)
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Fascinating that the vast majority of posting on this thread have been in English afterall.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Shakespeare like it, no doubt, seems like it is a ready resource in the English language, if you rearrange your syntax appropriately to take advantage of it. Can you do it as easily in other languages?
The reasons you are staying out of the rest of the argument aren't that obvious.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Oh, it's just that I've got a background in linguistics.
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
You are in now kip..
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Excuse me Emily I just said:
"Ba mhaith liom an Ghaeilge a fhoghlaim. Tá sé an-deacair. Níl aon duine a labhraíonn Gaeilge anseo sa tSualainn. Tá sé deacair go leor tryin a imirt ar na píopaí uilleann"
Translation:
I want to learn Irish. It is very difficult. Nobody speaks Irish here in Sweden. It's hard enough tryin to play the uilleann pipes
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by Steamwilkes
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
How do you spell pentameter?
# Posted on March 8th 2011 by gam
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Aye, Tom. I couldn't get that when sober, much less now.
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
As I am struggling with English. Hownthe feck do you type this sh*te?
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Prof. Prlwytzkofsky: well, what about if you step into another room, then? if you noticed... every thread in a forum is a separate conversation, as separate from one another as any room is from the next. it is unreasonable to think that a thread started in irish must be stopped.
i have never been offended while hanging out with my friends and a few of them legitimately talk in their shared language for a brief moment. nor do i care if i go to someone's house in they speak in their "home language" while i am there. and no, they don't always translate. i have spent so much time in america around people from other countries WHO ALL SPEAK ENGLISH that it doesn't phase me or offend me to see an at-risk language being openly spoken in the presence of *gasp* people who don't speak it.
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by daiv
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Good on ya, Daiv.
@ big_tab: " I can engage through Irish very easily if i wish. At sessions or in homes or i can choose to go where Irish is spoken in clubs all over the country. I can watch TG4 or listen to R na G any time I want. Unlike you Dr I have no fear for the language."
You've nailed your own problem on the head. This isn't about you. Of course you can engage through Irish very easily if you wish, and you can watch TG4 etc. But think about babies being born now, even in the Gaeltacht. Do you think that when they grow up they'll be as confident with the language as you are?
I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you because I only see this as engaging in an interesting discussion, not a personal attack or an attack on any culture. I think I'm probably as passionate about language as you are. However, from what I've read, a large part of the problem with receding languages is that competent speakers wrongly assume that their language is healthy because people of their own age group are using it and it's being learnt by kids in schools and there are radio/TV channels that use the language as a medium. Unfortunately this is like a smokescreen hiding what's really going on behind the scenes in people's private homes. Irish language activists have their hearts in the right place and are making a valiant effort to revitalise the language, but linguists well versed in cases of language shift throughout the world are watching Irish now and they're seeing the same pattern of loss as has been occurring across the globe. Now those linguists have written and published their papers (actually between the 1960s/70s and more intensively in the 1990s) and have come to the conclusion that the language has got to the stage where its death is inevitable unless some kind of major cultural movement happens in a critical mass of Irish people. That has not been forthcoming and, as you pointed out yourself, politically things seem to be taking a turn for the worse. The linguists' problem is that most of them aren't Irish and they know that if they barge in there and start telling the Irish about the state of their own language and telling them what action should be taken, they'll only be met with indignant cries of "what would you know? You're not even Irish! You lot are just cultural imperialists! Our language is just fine thank you very much --- eff off!!". Your reaction in this thread is a prime example of this and it's understandable because you obviously care deeply and that's commendable. But the linguists are watching people like you and wringing their lily white hands willing you to mobilise people and do something, like doctors and nurses watching a patient in a coma, knowing they can do nothing but wait and see if the person wakes up. I just hope that the giant wakes and people start taking action that will actually work. Suggestions as to appropriate strategies and methodology have already been suggested in the literature of the 1990s and the last decade. All people have to do is read this, take it on board, and go: "right, this is a long shot and it's going to take a lot of effort on everybody's part, but LET'S DO THIS!! Our language is WORTH IT!"
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by Dr. Dow
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
I have found that staunch proponents of dying, minority languages have the "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude which seems to result in them becoming an even smaller, more insular group. That doesn't help preserve the language.
I don't know what can be done for Scots Gaelic, at this point, but arguing about road signs isn't it. The Gaelic road signs are nice but they're not going to preserve it as a viable language. But you can't even say that to Gaelic activists -- they'll get defensive and assume you're saying you don't support their valiant efforts to save their language. Lots of good things have happened -- Radio na Gael, BBC Alba, a handful of Gaelic medium schools in the Highlands, Sabhal Mor Ostaig, but will those bring it back from the brink? As Dow says, the real discussion of the issues just doesn't happen.
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Rereading that, the road sign thing looks like a bit of a non-sequiter. A few years ago, there were arguments about Gaelic road signs in the Highlands. Whether we should have them, where they should be, the spelling, whether they distracted drivers.
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Iambic pentameter
'"English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm."
I've heard this claim all my life. Is there any basis for it at all?'
Hi Jon,
I think it is the case that English is relatively easily fitted into verse in iambic pentameter, but as you realise, natural language isn't regular in that way. So this claim is putting the cart before the horse.
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
My experience in the highlands has been that where gaelic is spoken by the majority then you'll find things are really quite laid back regarding the presence of non speakers. Sure there will be a few jokes at your expense but they'll be presented in a warm and welcoming way and usually to signal to others in the company that you have no gaelic on you and therefore the conversation should be conducted accordingly, ie in the common language of the company.
BTW, the answer to the standard gaelic question to a non speaker on the west here, is; "well I don't know the vicar's name", try to stay dead pan when you deliver the line, when everybody is done laughing your status in the company will have been raised immeasurably.
Evangelical gaels are a pain in the arse and should be ignored, they're just outwardly projecting their own insecurities.
The relationship between gaelic and the landscape is really quite something to behold and gaelic place names usually convey practical information or commemorate people both historical (although just locally) mythical pertinent to that place. Hence why I'm in favour of gaelic road signs.
When I was a youth I was on hand to help move a few highland ponies from their home estate to better spring grazing on the other side of the glen, a piece of ground where my pal was (and still is) keeper. Anyway, it was a dirty day and as we sat in the larder having a brew (thats tea) or should I say, strupoch, the old boy who had brought the ponies over from their home ground asked me if I knew where Corrie Each was located. No idea I told him, I was sent out to look. On the hill opposite the ponies had all gathered in a concave bowl on the hill some distance from where they had been put through the gate. That was the horse corrie. The horses didn't need asking as that place, although not noted on the map, was the most sheltered spot on that hill side.
FWIW, my daughter and ex are both fluent I'm not, but I at east know the vicar's name ; )
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
Aontaim leis an phointe faoi na Gaeltachtaí, agus na Gaeltactaí Albanach. . .Níl mórán fadhb ag aon duine faoi theangacha eile, ach táímíd, na gaeilgeoirí, ach ag lorg an chead ár dteanga dúchais a úsaid . . .tá na péíndlíthe imithe, nach bhfuil?
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by fluther
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
There is only one gaeltacht fluther, takes more than a bunch of planters in kintyre & ulster to break a culture, although their still at it big time in h'alba. For me and mine no permission is required, but for me you'll have to accept that I'm not that good at it.
# Posted on March 9th 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
"English is iambic pentametre, that's it's native rhythm."
I think this has it backwards. My understanding was that iambic pentameter is the poetic meter that "best approaches" casual spoken English (ie: if you're going to commit to a poetic meter, then iambic pentameter is the one that will sound most normal).
# Posted on March 10th 2011 by Georgi
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
(need to clarify that last post)
My understanding was that iambic pentameter approximates spoken English better (and feels closer to natural) than other strict meters. I don't recall hearing anybody suggest that English had any subtle tendency to adhere to that meter... Just that iambic pentameter seemed to sound less contrived than other common meters..
# Posted on March 10th 2011 by Georgi
Re: LET'S DO THIS!! Our language is WORTH IT!"
Dr. Dow
I'm sure this will not be the first time you've been noted for eloquence, but you hit a high note with that last post.
# Posted on March 10th 2011 by Twisty
Re: Cén fáth nach bhfuil níos mó comhránna as Gaeilge ar an suíomh seo?
caithfaidh muid a chonail a usaid gaeilge s'againn mar ma deanann muid dearmuid ta muid ag glacadh muid s'againn sios is fuath liom an fhac nach usaidann muid e mar ta cuid mhor charaí agam o aitanna mar an pholann agus lithuanana agus bionn said ag caint ina teanga agus is fuath liom an fhac nach bhfuil gaeilge ag duine ar bith silim go bionn se i chuir an chiall orainn go bhfuil muid lach chulture agus is fuath liom e is gra liom mo teanga agus is gra liom mo tir le do thoil mo chara an dtig liabh foilim an gaeilge do na duine agus na pasiti as an tir seo agus lig do feicann cad e mar ata a fior chulture agus a fior tir
# Posted on April 20th 2011 by mocharamochroi