I never see any reference to a Conamara fiddle style, either, or to an Aran fiddle style, or to a Mayo fiddle style. I'm pretty sure they play fiddle in those places.
Perhaps the reason may be that players from those parts of Ireland aren't well represented in recordings and so are virtually unknown outside their respective regions?
There are plenty of places in Ireland that have wonderful communities of musicians, great characters and stories that would add greatly to our understanding and enjoyment of the music but we seem to be exploring very slowly. South Sligo was out of the traps early but that seems to have become north Connacht; Clare assumes a position of 'home of traditional music' with varying degrees of authority, not to mention the grand canyon that divides east and west running somewhere near the Ennis Ennistymon superhighway; Donegal seems even more fragmented but celebrated by many; Sliabh Luachra was discovered between 1969 (Star above the Garter) and 1977 (Music from Sliabh Luachra series) but not in time for Ó Riada's Our Musical Heritage in 1962; and Fermanagh seemed to appear just in time for the series Caniuntí Cheoil a few years ago. Just imagine, the great Séamus Creagh was from Westmeath...whoever heard of a musician from Westmeath!
Well précis-ed, Dceol. Don't forget Kerry & Cork for slides and polkas, or the Roscommon/North Connaught flute style; or indeed that places like Cavan and Wexford are starting to show up on the trad map again. But as I say what would I know?
When a young greenhorn in Ireland, I met someone in O'Donahue's who told me Connemara might be a disappointing place for trad: "There'll be ceilidhs which aren't ceilidhs, and the main thing's Country and Western..." My visits to Ireland have been short, and I've never got to Connemara.
Maybe Connemara and its tradition were particularly badly affected by the Famine and the need to emigrate.
>but who cares how it's spelled in English?
Like as if Irish is your native tongue? the Pacific Northwest of America dialect to be sure.
Gawd I love this site at times like this. Maybe I should grow up but there is so much fun to be had watching the bears dance while you poke them.
I have a mate from Ireland - he was my best man when I got married. He also used to frighten me with the same gory tales about the all invasive popularity of Country and Western. He originated from Mayo.
Presumably this explains why he moved close (ish) to Listowel when he went back to re-settle in his homeland.
I bet the old Irish Folklore Commission recorded some samples of music, including fiddle, from West Galway and other areas not well known. through the 20th century recording era. I have some contacts there, and will ask about.
Come to think of it, I have a CD called "The Gaelic Heritage: Traditional Music of Connemara," put out by Radio France, and which has a fiddle or two on it, along with pipes, flute, tin whistle, and other instruments, and a couple songs and sean nós pieces.
I don't know much about it or the circumstances of recording. I think it was recorded, or at least produced, in the 19702, and it is apparently a field recording; on one song you can hear the peat fire crackling in the background. I'm sure some others here have heard it.
How much this recording might reflect any older Conamara styles of playing I don't know. I'll have to give it a listen again. It's been a while since I heard it.
There are few fiddlers from Conamara. The Gaeltacht area is really a singing heartland. Box players are well represented and sean nós dancers keep them busy. If one was to include North Conamara(non gaeltacht) the village of Letterfrack boasts proudly of the home of Liz and Yvonne Keane . I think their grandfather was a fiddler.
Rudall--"Gawd I love this site at times like this. Maybe I should grow up but there is so much fun to be had watching the bears dance while you poke them".
One more time and I 'm calling PETA! Bear baiting's been outlawed in most civilised areas.
Shanty - you call this place a civilised area? BTW I did say shortly afterwards I was only joking. Sometimes you have to say so as it's difficult for readers to tell.
I would agree with Georgi, Connemara would be more renowned for its melodeon playing with the likes of Johnny Connolly and his son. If I recall when playing out there with Anders one of the biggest requests by Connemara folk was the Mrs McCloud reel played out on either the accordion and melodeon, along with sean nos singing and dancing.
However he knows that it is completely true Bernie. In fact all you have to do is refer to the above mentioned Kane Sisters. Wonderful musicians from North Conamara who specialise in the music of Paddy Fahey from East Galway.
But how do you know Paddy Fahey's style is typical of East Galway, Tab? I mean, just that someone is from somewhere doesn't mean they have a style typical to the area.
Well, if you have a bit of knowledge of regional styles and players it's not all that hard to determine who fits into the local styles and who is playing more generic styles, or styles from a different area than the one they're from themselves. It's not rocketscience although there are ofcourse plenty of grey areas.
You know damn well how it works but I'll go along with the wind up.
Let's stick to the example: that the Kane sisters are from Connemara doesn't mean they necessarily play Connemara music.
I am sure you can agree with that.
I think you'll also be able to work out how you go about determining what the traits of a local style are, who in an area fit in to it and which players play a more generic style.
I had an interesting talk with Mick O Connor one nice summer's day (on the Promenade in Lahinch, he was minding the grand-children) about flute styles in North Clare. Mick could point to all sorts of pockets of local style and repertoire that used to exist into the latter half of the last century. Some as small as maybe two or three townlands.
Mick went out, talked to people and recorded them over a lengthy period of time. He worked it out.
If you know and the Prof knows and maybe even I know why are you posting these questions when you could be out voting for Enda Kenny and deteriorating even further our bit of culture!
On an individual level it all depends on how a player acquires his music. If you live in an area but never learn from or play much with practitioners of the local style (for whatever reason. you may prefer to play like music you hear on radio or recordings or play a lot with people with an altogether different style. Or any amount of other reasons) you're not going to become a player in the local style, or will be considered as one.
On the other thing: some areas just don't have any strong (surviving) local style (or local style for a particular instrument) the locals can draw from.
Why not west Galway?
Why not west Galway?
I keep seeing references to the east Galway fiddle style, but nobody ever seems to mention west Galway. Is there any explanation for that?
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Why not west Galway?
Becase the western part of Galway is known as the Conamara.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Why not west Galway?
"Won't you come, come back to West Galway" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by leoj
Re: Why not west Galway?
I never see any reference to a Conamara fiddle style, either, or to an Aran fiddle style, or to a Mayo fiddle style. I'm pretty sure they play fiddle in those places.
Perhaps the reason may be that players from those parts of Ireland aren't well represented in recordings and so are virtually unknown outside their respective regions?
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Séamas Breathnach
Re: Why not west Galway?
Oh. And there was me thinking all that time that it was spelled Connemara, and the general area is Iar Chonnachta. But what would I know.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Why not west Galway?
Wait a minute. Are we referring only to fiddle styles or does the discussion stoop to include other instruments?
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Why not west Galway?
There are plenty of places in Ireland that have wonderful communities of musicians, great characters and stories that would add greatly to our understanding and enjoyment of the music but we seem to be exploring very slowly. South Sligo was out of the traps early but that seems to have become north Connacht; Clare assumes a position of 'home of traditional music' with varying degrees of authority, not to mention the grand canyon that divides east and west running somewhere near the Ennis Ennistymon superhighway; Donegal seems even more fragmented but celebrated by many; Sliabh Luachra was discovered between 1969 (Star above the Garter) and 1977 (Music from Sliabh Luachra series) but not in time for Ó Riada's Our Musical Heritage in 1962; and Fermanagh seemed to appear just in time for the series Caniuntí Cheoil a few years ago. Just imagine, the great Séamus Creagh was from Westmeath...whoever heard of a musician from Westmeath!
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Dceol
Re: Why not west Galway?
In Irish it's spelled Conamara. In English it's spelled Connemara, but who cares how it's spelled in English?
But yes, Conamara only forms only a part of Western Galway; the peninsula between Killary harbor and Kilkieran bay.
Connacht is the entire Western province of Ireland, and includes all of Galway, Mayo, Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Séamas Breathnach
Re: Why not west Galway?
Well précis-ed, Dceol. Don't forget Kerry & Cork for slides and polkas, or the Roscommon/North Connaught flute style; or indeed that places like Cavan and Wexford are starting to show up on the trad map again. But as I say what would I know?
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Why not west Galway?
When a young greenhorn in Ireland, I met someone in O'Donahue's who told me Connemara might be a disappointing place for trad: "There'll be ceilidhs which aren't ceilidhs, and the main thing's Country and Western..." My visits to Ireland have been short, and I've never got to Connemara.
Maybe Connemara and its tradition were particularly badly affected by the Famine and the need to emigrate.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by nicholas
Re: Why not west Galway?
>but who cares how it's spelled in English?
Like as if Irish is your native tongue? the Pacific Northwest of America dialect to be sure.
Gawd I love this site at times like this. Maybe I should grow up but there is so much fun to be had watching the bears dance while you poke them.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Why not west Galway?
Nicholas,
I have a mate from Ireland - he was my best man when I got married. He also used to frighten me with the same gory tales about the all invasive popularity of Country and Western. He originated from Mayo.
Presumably this explains why he moved close (ish) to Listowel when he went back to re-settle in his homeland.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by ormepipes
Re: Why not west Galway?
I bet the old Irish Folklore Commission recorded some samples of music, including fiddle, from West Galway and other areas not well known. through the 20th century recording era. I have some contacts there, and will ask about.
Come to think of it, I have a CD called "The Gaelic Heritage: Traditional Music of Connemara," put out by Radio France, and which has a fiddle or two on it, along with pipes, flute, tin whistle, and other instruments, and a couple songs and sean nós pieces.
I don't know much about it or the circumstances of recording. I think it was recorded, or at least produced, in the 19702, and it is apparently a field recording; on one song you can hear the peat fire crackling in the background. I'm sure some others here have heard it.
How much this recording might reflect any older Conamara styles of playing I don't know. I'll have to give it a listen again. It's been a while since I heard it.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Séamas Breathnach
Re: Why not west Galway?
I meant to say "1972" btw.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Séamas Breathnach
Re: Why not west Galway?
Interesting, SB. just kidding BTW.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Why not west Galway?
I once knew a fiddle player from West Waterford. Where does he fit in?
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Free Reed
Re: Why not west Galway?
I once knew a fiddler from west Watford. Where does she fit in?
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Why not west Galway?
There are few fiddlers from Conamara. The Gaeltacht area is really a singing heartland. Box players are well represented and sean nós dancers keep them busy. If one was to include North Conamara(non gaeltacht) the village of Letterfrack boasts proudly of the home of Liz and Yvonne Keane . I think their grandfather was a fiddler.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Why not west Galway?
Maybe there aren't enough trees to make a fiddle.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by GaryAMartin
Re: Why not west Galway?
Rudall--"Gawd I love this site at times like this. Maybe I should grow up but there is so much fun to be had watching the bears dance while you poke them".
One more time and I 'm calling PETA! Bear baiting's been outlawed in most civilised areas.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by shanty
Re: Why not west Galway?
Shanty - you call this place a civilised area? BTW I did say shortly afterwards I was only joking. Sometimes you have to say so as it's difficult for readers to tell.
# Posted on February 24th 2011 by Rudall the time
Re: Why not west Galway?
I always figured the Connemara music was known/driven more by accordion/melodeon playing and sean nos singing than by fiddle playing.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Georgi
Re: Why not west Galway?
I would agree with Georgi, Connemara would be more renowned for its melodeon playing with the likes of Johnny Connolly and his son. If I recall when playing out there with Anders one of the biggest requests by Connemara folk was the Mrs McCloud reel played out on either the accordion and melodeon, along with sean nos singing and dancing.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Scots_Niall
Re: Why not west Galway?
Forgot about the Keane sisters, both fiddlers, they are from Connemara I think.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Scots_Niall
Re: Why not west Galway?
Feck got that wrong the Kane sisters, why isnt there an editing facility in this forum?
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Scots_Niall
Re: Why not west Galway?
Just that someone is from somewhere doesn't mean they have a style typical to the area.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Why not west Galway?
"Just that someone is from somewhere doesn't mean they have a style typical to the area."
And how do you know that?
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Why not west Galway?
However he knows that it is completely true Bernie. In fact all you have to do is refer to the above mentioned Kane Sisters. Wonderful musicians from North Conamara who specialise in the music of Paddy Fahey from East Galway.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Why not west Galway?
But how do you know Paddy Fahey's style is typical of East Galway, Tab? I mean, just that someone is from somewhere doesn't mean they have a style typical to the area.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Why not west Galway?
Brilliant Bernie! You have just nailed The Profs point perfactly. You see,stick with the programme.. You are making progress!
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Why not west Galway?
What do you mean "nailed"? I thought I had just shown that what he said doesn't stand up.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Why not west Galway?
Well, if you have a bit of knowledge of regional styles and players it's not all that hard to determine who fits into the local styles and who is playing more generic styles, or styles from a different area than the one they're from themselves. It's not rocketscience although there are ofcourse plenty of grey areas.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Why not west Galway?
But that's what I was asking you. How do you develop a knowledge of local styles, if local people don't play in a local style?
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Why not west Galway?
You know damn well how it works but I'll go along with the wind up.
Let's stick to the example: that the Kane sisters are from Connemara doesn't mean they necessarily play Connemara music.
I am sure you can agree with that.
I think you'll also be able to work out how you go about determining what the traits of a local style are, who in an area fit in to it and which players play a more generic style.
I had an interesting talk with Mick O Connor one nice summer's day (on the Promenade in Lahinch, he was minding the grand-children) about flute styles in North Clare. Mick could point to all sorts of pockets of local style and repertoire that used to exist into the latter half of the last century. Some as small as maybe two or three townlands.
Mick went out, talked to people and recorded them over a lengthy period of time. He worked it out.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Why not west Galway?
I don't know it works Prof! Big Tabitha understands apparently, but that may be more troubling than encouraging.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: Why not west Galway?
If you know and the Prof knows and maybe even I know why are you posting these questions when you could be out voting for Enda Kenny and deteriorating even further our bit of culture!
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Why not west Galway?
Oh I misread. . You dont know how regional styles work. Time is needed here and I'm worried you might miss the voting opportunity.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by big_tab
Re: Why not west Galway?
On an individual level it all depends on how a player acquires his music. If you live in an area but never learn from or play much with practitioners of the local style (for whatever reason. you may prefer to play like music you hear on radio or recordings or play a lot with people with an altogether different style. Or any amount of other reasons) you're not going to become a player in the local style, or will be considered as one.
On the other thing: some areas just don't have any strong (surviving) local style (or local style for a particular instrument) the locals can draw from.
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Why not west Galway?
And why shouldn't people play 'country and western' in Galway or Mayo? If they can play Irish Trad in Birmingham, Alabama...
# Posted on February 25th 2011 by harmonic miner