what do you mean?
you use the terminology" Rolls", do you mean fiddle type rolls, whistle rolls, or some other exotic perversion, ornamentation or deviation.
He means accordion-type rolls, of course, CL. The difficulty is that (on the B/C box) F# is on the outer row, meaning that the normal method of executing rolls won't work.
I've nothing to suggest because I'm a C#/D player and don't use rolls very much anyway. It's easy enough to do a roll on the outer row, however, if the notes fit. For example, on C#/D box, a roll on C-natural is possible using E and B from the inner row. Using the same buttons would give you a nice Bb roll on the B/C
It doesn't work quite so well on F# though because you'd end up with a "tap" (final grace) that was too low.
Does it matter really if the note is "too low" or "off key" if you do a "note-cut-note-tap-note" kind of roll where the grace notes are mere "blubs" anyway?
I started B/C box myself and I am trying to learn rolls at the moment. What I try currently is:
roll = f#, cut on the outer row, f#, tap on the inner row (=e), f#
kind of roll: play f# twice, tap on the inner row, f# again
banjo thingy: same note a couple of times - trying different fingers/ "rollin- off movements"
Depending on the tune and wether I think on-beat or off-beat accents are nicer one or the other fits better. And - very much depending on the tune - one or the other is the only one I can do decently without completely wrecking the tune....
« Does it matter really if the note is "too low" or "off key" »
Matter of personal taste. In nearly all the classic rolls played by B/C box players, the lower grace is out of key, so obviously they don't think it's a problem. Mostly I do, however, because often you can clearly distinguish the pitch of that note and it jars.
i play b/c box....i do not do a full five-note roll on the f#, though of course, i don't do them at all because i loathe the way they sound on accordion, which is like a cell phone ringing or a car alarm going off in contrast to the little ripples they give off on the fiddle. accordion-player-inferiority-complex has given rise to a number of aural horrors in terms of fiddle-wannabe ornaments, imho....
i do a triplet or a half-roll cutting the f# with the f# an octave above, or the "b" above the f# for a b-minor-ish half-roll. i also often just do a cut preceding a slap roll on the f#. if your box is responsive, this sounds great. if you like that same-note roll that sounds like a pellet gun, (it is a box equivalent of a fiddle bowed triplet, but again, sounds nothing like a bowed triplet sounds on the fiddle, instead sounding like a gatling gun).... you can do that too....
If the tempo isn't too fast, I don't seem to have much trouble getting the cut and the tap from the C row (though that may be from 40 years of playing the piano). If it's too fast, I'll try a triplet or leave it out entirely.
I play fairly fast tunes on B/C for dancers and I generally avoid ornaments preferring to get a good pulse into a plain melody line. That way I make fewer mistakes and never break time
if I'm messing about I might try using triple notes occassionally
if you want real rolls, perhaps try playing the fiddle
BTW, nothing wrong with playing the F# (or any other note) three times, without any graces, instead of using a roll.
I don't mean a triplet or treble, just three eighth notes (quavers) instead of a dotted quarter (dotted crotchet).
With subtle control of your fingers (you can use the same finger, or alternate two fingers) and of the bellows, this can sound just lovely - like a single, pulsing note.
F# rolls on the box
F# rolls on the box
Anyone have any suggestions as to what is the best way of doing these???
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by cristoir95
Re: F# rolls on the box
You mean "on the B/C box."
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by Jeeves Tones
Re: F# rolls on the box
what do you mean?
you use the terminology" Rolls", do you mean fiddle type rolls, whistle rolls, or some other exotic perversion, ornamentation or deviation.
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by Joseph Tailyour
Re: F# rolls on the box
He means accordion-type rolls, of course, CL. The difficulty is that (on the B/C box) F# is on the outer row, meaning that the normal method of executing rolls won't work.
I've nothing to suggest because I'm a C#/D player and don't use rolls very much anyway. It's easy enough to do a roll on the outer row, however, if the notes fit. For example, on C#/D box, a roll on C-natural is possible using E and B from the inner row. Using the same buttons would give you a nice Bb roll on the B/C
It doesn't work quite so well on F# though because you'd end up with a "tap" (final grace) that was too low.
Doing a quick search I see this has been discussed before, actually: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/4305
There is another reference to the problem in the last comment on this page: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/9439
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by Jeeves Tones
Re: F# rolls on the box
Does it matter really if the note is "too low" or "off key" if you do a "note-cut-note-tap-note" kind of roll where the grace notes are mere "blubs" anyway?
I started B/C box myself and I am trying to learn rolls at the moment. What I try currently is:
roll = f#, cut on the outer row, f#, tap on the inner row (=e), f#
kind of roll: play f# twice, tap on the inner row, f# again
banjo thingy: same note a couple of times - trying different fingers/ "rollin- off movements"
Depending on the tune and wether I think on-beat or off-beat accents are nicer one or the other fits better. And - very much depending on the tune - one or the other is the only one I can do decently without completely wrecking the tune....
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by Irina
Re: F# rolls on the box
Have you tried.. grace note[or tap] F# grace note [or tap] F#, just a thought.
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by Joseph Tailyour
Re: F# rolls on the box
« Does it matter really if the note is "too low" or "off key" »
Matter of personal taste. In nearly all the classic rolls played by B/C box players, the lower grace is out of key, so obviously they don't think it's a problem. Mostly I do, however, because often you can clearly distinguish the pitch of that note and it jars.
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by Jeeves Tones
Re: F# rolls on the box
I play a B/C box, and although the other rolls might not be technically right the F# roll is clearly wrong, Thanks for all the great suggestions!!
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by cristoir95
Re: F# rolls on the box
I play a B/C box, and although the other rolls might not be technically right the F# roll is just clearly wrong, Thanks for the great suggestions!
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by cristoir95
Re: F# rolls on the box
i play b/c box....i do not do a full five-note roll on the f#, though of course, i don't do them at all because i loathe the way they sound on accordion, which is like a cell phone ringing or a car alarm going off in contrast to the little ripples they give off on the fiddle. accordion-player-inferiority-complex has given rise to a number of aural horrors in terms of fiddle-wannabe ornaments, imho....
i do a triplet or a half-roll cutting the f# with the f# an octave above, or the "b" above the f# for a b-minor-ish half-roll. i also often just do a cut preceding a slap roll on the f#. if your box is responsive, this sounds great. if you like that same-note roll that sounds like a pellet gun, (it is a box equivalent of a fiddle bowed triplet, but again, sounds nothing like a bowed triplet sounds on the fiddle, instead sounding like a gatling gun).... you can do that too....
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by ceemonster
Re: F# rolls on the box
If the tempo isn't too fast, I don't seem to have much trouble getting the cut and the tap from the C row (though that may be from 40 years of playing the piano). If it's too fast, I'll try a triplet or leave it out entirely.
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by GaryAMartin
Re: F# rolls on the box
I play fairly fast tunes on B/C for dancers and I generally avoid ornaments preferring to get a good pulse into a plain melody line. That way I make fewer mistakes and never break time
if I'm messing about I might try using triple notes occassionally
if you want real rolls, perhaps try playing the fiddle
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by millionyears_bc
Re: F# rolls on the box
BTW, nothing wrong with playing the F# (or any other note) three times, without any graces, instead of using a roll.
I don't mean a triplet or treble, just three eighth notes (quavers) instead of a dotted quarter (dotted crotchet).
With subtle control of your fingers (you can use the same finger, or alternate two fingers) and of the bellows, this can sound just lovely - like a single, pulsing note.
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by Jeeves Tones