I play tenor banjo on melody in our local ITM session, and for melody OR chords in the local Old Time music band which plays Old Time, or traditional American music, for Contra dancers.
Many of the Old Time tunes are Irish, or heavily influenced by Irish (and Scottish) music, and sound very nice with chord accompaniment from the tenor banjo (e.g., listen to Clyde Curley - Portland Collection). However, I don't think I've ever heard a tenor banjo used for accompaniment in a Irish session, and it doesn't seem to be widely accepted for this use.
It might be interesting, but it would probably get pretty loud. You couldn't do a lot of Alec Finn style playing, that's for sure, but maybe going back to an old-school dancehall thing with a really square beat might work.
Brian McGrath can do this style of banjo, and has recorded some stuff with John Carty in this vein. But I think it only works for certain arrangements where you're after a specific retro feel.
In a typical session of Irish music it would get in the way, annoy players of quieter instruments and generally go down like a lead balloon.
I have to confess that, as a banjo player myself, the very thought of a tenor 'vamping' away in a session would drive me up the walls. The main problem with a banjo is its lack of sustain so the only way to get a constant accompaniment is to strike the strings more often. An example from the solo picker's bag of tricks is a roll or a triple play on a single note - done purely to elongate the note or as an added dash of colour. Therefore if you extrapolate that to chord playing you get the 'vamp, vamp, vamp' of the jazz banjo. While this is attractive and perfectly normal in that particular setting, in my opinion, it does not belong in an ITM session.
However, if a chord is thrown in occasionally for effect, in the middle of a tune, say, I have no objection to this as a means of decoration. As a matter of fact, it can give the tune a little added pizzaz. But, as AlBrown above implies, too much of anything palls the palate.
All banjo players are aware of the antipathy their instrument can generate among certain 'other' instrumentalists. God Almighty, think of the street cred the little tenor would have, if a bevy of lump-hammer accompanists settled in for the night! Doesn't even bear thinking about!!
The tenor banjo was originally conceived as a chord instrument. It had it's place in dance bands of the 20s and 30s, where it was difficult for a guitar to compete for volume with brass and woodwind. But strummed chords on a tenor banjo in an Irish session, I think, would be overpowering. Furthermore, you have to remember that the tenor banjo was not originally tuned GDAE, but a 4th higher at CGDA ('jazz' tuning), or possibly other tunings more suited to chord playing; to my ear, chords played in 'Irish' tuning sound muddy and with more 'thunk' than tone.
Of course, if you are playing in a performing or recording band, you can choose your instrument combinations, and balance the volume levels as you please, so you might be able to use banjo chords to good effect. But I agree with Jon Kiparsky that, in general, an Alec Finn 'less is more' approach would probably work better - arpeggios, countermelody and occasional I + V diads (i.e. two note 'chords' containing only the root and 5th - G+D, A+E etc.).
It is a good idea, from the point of view of getting to know your instrument better, to learn to bridge the gap between chords and melody and, as Gerry McCartney says, you can use the occasional chord (or partial chord) as an embellishment when playing a tune. But, in general, a banjo is loud enough played one string at a time - it doesn't need to be 4 times louder.
I like Al's salt analogy. I have been around players that do it, but only rarely. It can add a new dynamic to the sound. But it quickly becomes distracting and annoying.
I do use a lot of double stops when I'm playing, and an occasional chord. But only as part of my expression of a tune. Never as "accompaniment", per se.
Definitely, banjo chords can add a lot. It depends on the musicians your playing with. There are many different ways to accompany tunes on the banjo which cater for different playing styles. Check out Paddy Carty's "Traditional Music of Ireland" LP with Mick O'Connor on accompaniment banjo. This is a taste of some simple, non-intrusive banjo accompaniment. Of course, there is also the heavier, swing-influenced style from the 1920s used by Brian McGrath and other to good effect when backing barndances etc.
Never be limited by your instrument. I, for one, like to push the boundaries of what the banjo can do. Hell, I like playing slow airs on it.
Thats the problem dfost, people automatically think "this one goes up to 11" and that it doesn't have any other setting. Burger them.
I use a few chords myself, as discussed by gerry & the rev above. In fact I actually look for double stop & chord opportunities when I'm learning a tune or reworking an old one. Not to splatter all over it but rather to sound less like a machine gun.
Chordal accompaniment would only really work in certain circumstances, as mentioned by others; you need to keep it moving and it can be done, just not by me.
I've done a bit of backing on my banjolele. Where as the tenor could be loud the banjolele is shrill!
It's tuned re-entrant gcea and despite the highness of the tuning is packs quite a chunky chord punch.
I hasten to add I've only used it for real on about four sets ever but it was an interesting experiment.
Strumming a backing on the tenor is rather in the same category of debate as strumming a mandolin for the same purpose. Although strumming the 'zouk/ Octave mandolin/ mandola, of course, is completely non-controversial.
And as ever with everything it's not the instrument or the technique adopted, it's the the noise the person makes with the instrument!
Interesting clip Hugo. Thanks. Have heard a bit about both these lads. I cant make up my mind if I like it or not and that is rare for me. I know they are good.
I usually take a tenor banjo to sessions, but it only comes out if I am up against something monsterously loud like a piano accordian, otherwise I stick to my trusty octave mandolin. Horses for courses.
Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
I play tenor banjo on melody in our local ITM session, and for melody OR chords in the local Old Time music band which plays Old Time, or traditional American music, for Contra dancers.
Many of the Old Time tunes are Irish, or heavily influenced by Irish (and Scottish) music, and sound very nice with chord accompaniment from the tenor banjo (e.g., listen to Clyde Curley - Portland Collection). However, I don't think I've ever heard a tenor banjo used for accompaniment in a Irish session, and it doesn't seem to be widely accepted for this use.
What's your opinion? Thanks.
# Posted on February 19th 2011 by dfost
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
It might be interesting, but it would probably get pretty loud. You couldn't do a lot of Alec Finn style playing, that's for sure, but maybe going back to an old-school dancehall thing with a really square beat might work.
# Posted on February 19th 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Brian McGrath can do this style of banjo, and has recorded some stuff with John Carty in this vein. But I think it only works for certain arrangements where you're after a specific retro feel.
In a typical session of Irish music it would get in the way, annoy players of quieter instruments and generally go down like a lead balloon.
# Posted on February 19th 2011 by DaveL35
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
I have heard it done tastefully, it depends on how good the player is with chords.
The Banjo can be played quietly.
# Posted on February 19th 2011 by Nicholas Jelinek
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
These's a guy plays chords at our session in Ramsbottom. I don't know if he makes a concious effort to play quietly but it never sems annoying
# Posted on February 19th 2011 by riggers
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Well Barney McKenna has been using this technique for at least the past 30 years, so it's nothing new.
Here's a young fella, Josh O Loughlin, doing a very tasteful job of this, too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUj33lE3wvY
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on February 19th 2011 by Ptarmigan
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Like salt on your breakfast eggs, a little of it goes a long way, and too much will spoil your appetite!
# Posted on February 20th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
I have to confess that, as a banjo player myself, the very thought of a tenor 'vamping' away in a session would drive me up the walls. The main problem with a banjo is its lack of sustain so the only way to get a constant accompaniment is to strike the strings more often. An example from the solo picker's bag of tricks is a roll or a triple play on a single note - done purely to elongate the note or as an added dash of colour. Therefore if you extrapolate that to chord playing you get the 'vamp, vamp, vamp' of the jazz banjo. While this is attractive and perfectly normal in that particular setting, in my opinion, it does not belong in an ITM session.
However, if a chord is thrown in occasionally for effect, in the middle of a tune, say, I have no objection to this as a means of decoration. As a matter of fact, it can give the tune a little added pizzaz. But, as AlBrown above implies, too much of anything palls the palate.
All banjo players are aware of the antipathy their instrument can generate among certain 'other' instrumentalists. God Almighty, think of the street cred the little tenor would have, if a bevy of lump-hammer accompanists settled in for the night! Doesn't even bear thinking about!!
# Posted on February 20th 2011 by Gerry_McCartney
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
The tenor banjo was originally conceived as a chord instrument. It had it's place in dance bands of the 20s and 30s, where it was difficult for a guitar to compete for volume with brass and woodwind. But strummed chords on a tenor banjo in an Irish session, I think, would be overpowering. Furthermore, you have to remember that the tenor banjo was not originally tuned GDAE, but a 4th higher at CGDA ('jazz' tuning), or possibly other tunings more suited to chord playing; to my ear, chords played in 'Irish' tuning sound muddy and with more 'thunk' than tone.
Of course, if you are playing in a performing or recording band, you can choose your instrument combinations, and balance the volume levels as you please, so you might be able to use banjo chords to good effect. But I agree with Jon Kiparsky that, in general, an Alec Finn 'less is more' approach would probably work better - arpeggios, countermelody and occasional I + V diads (i.e. two note 'chords' containing only the root and 5th - G+D, A+E etc.).
It is a good idea, from the point of view of getting to know your instrument better, to learn to bridge the gap between chords and melody and, as Gerry McCartney says, you can use the occasional chord (or partial chord) as an embellishment when playing a tune. But, in general, a banjo is loud enough played one string at a time - it doesn't need to be 4 times louder.
# Posted on February 20th 2011 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
I like Al's salt analogy. I have been around players that do it, but only rarely. It can add a new dynamic to the sound. But it quickly becomes distracting and annoying.
I do use a lot of double stops when I'm playing, and an occasional chord. But only as part of my expression of a tune. Never as "accompaniment", per se.
# Posted on February 20th 2011 by Reverend
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Definitely, banjo chords can add a lot. It depends on the musicians your playing with. There are many different ways to accompany tunes on the banjo which cater for different playing styles. Check out Paddy Carty's "Traditional Music of Ireland" LP with Mick O'Connor on accompaniment banjo. This is a taste of some simple, non-intrusive banjo accompaniment. Of course, there is also the heavier, swing-influenced style from the 1920s used by Brian McGrath and other to good effect when backing barndances etc.
Never be limited by your instrument. I, for one, like to push the boundaries of what the banjo can do. Hell, I like playing slow airs on it.
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by 52Paddy
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I had no idea that so many people believe that the banjo can be played at only one volume: LOUD!
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by dfost
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Thats the problem dfost, people automatically think "this one goes up to 11" and that it doesn't have any other setting. Burger them.
I use a few chords myself, as discussed by gerry & the rev above. In fact I actually look for double stop & chord opportunities when I'm learning a tune or reworking an old one. Not to splatter all over it but rather to sound less like a machine gun.
Chordal accompaniment would only really work in certain circumstances, as mentioned by others; you need to keep it moving and it can be done, just not by me.
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by Solidmahog
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
I've done a bit of backing on my banjolele. Where as the tenor could be loud the banjolele is shrill!
It's tuned re-entrant gcea and despite the highness of the tuning is packs quite a chunky chord punch.
I hasten to add I've only used it for real on about four sets ever but it was an interesting experiment.
Strumming a backing on the tenor is rather in the same category of debate as strumming a mandolin for the same purpose. Although strumming the 'zouk/ Octave mandolin/ mandola, of course, is completely non-controversial.
And as ever with everything it's not the instrument or the technique adopted, it's the the noise the person makes with the instrument!
# Posted on February 21st 2011 by yhaalhouse
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
This guy is pretty handy at the old tenor banjo chords.
Not everyones cup o' tea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0rIs61jgsY
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
Interesting clip Hugo. Thanks. Have heard a bit about both these lads. I cant make up my mind if I like it or not and that is rare for me. I know they are good.
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by big_tab
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
It's different eh?
Different is good tho I suppose.
Both hard working muso's.
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Playing chords on a tenor banjo for ITM?
I usually take a tenor banjo to sessions, but it only comes out if I am up against something monsterously loud like a piano accordian, otherwise I stick to my trusty octave mandolin. Horses for courses.
# Posted on February 22nd 2011 by SamHall