Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Is anyone interested in starting a beginner's session in West LA or Santa Monica? I've always wanted to play in a session and have been trying to get my friends together for one, but they're always scared of performing because none of us have been playing for very long (we're still in our mid teens). I was wondering if there's anyone else who would be interested in starting a session in LA or Santa Monica for beginners. If so, please respond to this discussion.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
That sounds really good, especially since pubs are off limits for me for about 5 more years. I live in Yorba Linda (about 15 minutes north of Disneyland) and would like to get together with people who are into ITM also. I'm up for a trek of about an hour, but if it's over that, then hmmm...This would have to be on the weekend anyways. I'd really like to meet you guys, Ian and Max and company!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Weekends would be the only thing that would work for me too. And I'd only be able to come if I can get my parents to drive me. Sounds like fun though, so lets not let this slip through our fingers.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Yes this sounds like fun ^_^
Thank you for replying. I can only do it on weekends too, so it's ok. We could probably do it at my house or someplace else. I can't really think of anything.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
hey this is Seán. I'm an 18 year old fiddler from Long Beach. I've been playing for eight years and love it more and more each day. Anyways, If you guys don't mind, i'd like to join in on this. I play professionally with a band of middle aged guys from Costa Mesa, so I've got some connections if you want a place to play. Also, pubs are the place to do it. I know you guys keep saying you're not old enough, but my experience has been that when they have sessions they let you in anyways. Just try walking in, see if the bouncer (if there is one) says anything. Anyways, please keep in touch. You can reach me at irishfiddler1@msn.com
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Can I offer to set things in stone? I know I'm being a little bold, so if anyone has any objections or better ideas, please post them.
Date: Saturday, 31st of January, 4:00 pm
Place: Ian's house?
Bring: Your instrument(s), friends, and a potluck dish or drinks (non-alcoholic, that's our dilemma in the first place, isn't it?)
So there, all you sessionless folk! We now have a session!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, I do want it to happen, but I don't know if it's wise to jump so soon. My parents would not like the idea of me going to someone's house they didn't know. "I play professionally with a band of middle aged guys from Costa Mesa, so I've got some connections if you want a place to play" It would probably be better to take Sean up on that, Emmaline. Do you think you could find a place, Sean? That would really great, if you could. It seems that if you are from Long Beach, Ian and Emmaline are from LA, I am from Santa Paula and there folks interested in Brea/Fullerton, it would be best to find a somewhat central location. Of couse, this might not be possible, and some people will obviously end up driving farther than others. And Ian, you were thinking of a begginer's session, not just a young folk's session, right? So someone like Felinoba, or other middle-aged folks, would be more than welcome to participate, right? In fact, it would probably better to let someone who has a little more experience than us (like Sean or Felinoba) to take control of things, sort of. They would certainly be able to handle things better than we could, having had some experience with this sort of thing. Thanks for offering your help and participation, Sean and Felinoba. I would love to get this started. BTW -- I have ITM playing freinds in Ojai that would probably love to join us as well. I will talk to them about it as soon as I can.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Give some thought to where you house the session--a private house is good for avoiding the scrutiny of an audience, but there are significant safety concerns (especially when mixing kids and grown ups having met only over the net), plus, it can get ugly inviting strangers to someone else's house. Suddenly you're responsible for the behavior of someone you've never met, in the living room of yet another stranger.
A public place makes the session generally more accessible, open to the serendipity factor (players stumbling across it), and helps to foster a sense of committment among the players. It also helps to stick to a regular schedule, weekly or monthly or whatever, at the same venue. Just so word of mouth can get around that "there's usually Irish music going down at the Fast Twitch Cafe the first Saturday of every month."
Of course, if it were easy to find an appropriate quasi-public place for your session, you'd already be there, right? So other than bars, here are a few possibilities that have worked for sessions I've attended:
Churches (meeting room, basement, sunday school classroom, etc.)
Schools (clear it with the janitor)
Student Union buildings on college campuses
Coffee houses (except it can start to feel like a performance if it's crowded with non-players)
Public libraries (some have community rooms well insulated so sound doesn't carry to the library itself)
Music stores
YMCA or YWCA
Irish-themed stores (some restaurants, but also woolen/linen shops)
Also, now that a bunch of you have connected online, you might consider swapping tune lists by email so you know what tunes you have in common. At least you'll be able to play right off, rather than spending an hour going, "Does anybody know this one?"
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Thanks Will! Maybe we could find some church to play at. Good idea about the tune list. Do you think you, or someone else who knows, could give us a list of not to hard or obscure session tunes to learn so we could have some tunes in common?
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
LOL Maybe I should have said "small" list, Will.
Thanks for helping us there, Will and Jeremy. I am going to go through that list and create a smaller one, now. I am thinking that we should start out with not too many, and not too hard tunes. If anyone else has any changes that they think should be made to it, let me know. Here it is:
Reels:
The Abbey Reel
Brenda Stubbert's
Cooley's Reel
The Cup of Tea
The Dunmore Lasses
The Foxhunter's Reel
The High Road to Linton
Jackie Coleman's
Maid Behind the Bar
The Morning Dew
The Musical Priest
The Otter's Holt
Saint Anne's Reel
Toss the Feathers
Jigs:
Banish Misfortune
Coleraine
The Connaughtman's Rambles
Geese in the Bog
Kesh Jig
Morrison's Jig
Scatter the Mud
Swallowtail Jig
The Tenpenny Bit
OK. Let me know what you think. Most of these tunes I don't know, or at least not very well, so I would have a lot of learning to do.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, that's a great start. Those are all tunes that should eventually be under your fingers, and you've done a good job of choosing ones that shouldn't prove too tricky in the beginning.
Bear in mind: some people will browbeat you for playing these "old warhorses." But the same people would likely browbeat you for *not* knowing these same tunes. So learn 'em and play 'em and use 'em to kick start your session.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I kind of tried to pick "old warhorses" simply because they are tunes we all should know, and they usually aren't that dificult to play. Thanks for adding those two reels. Anybody else have any changes?
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, starting off with those will do you guys just fine. I think your best bet after that would be to check in with local musicians rather than us and find out what tunes they tend to play at their sessions at the fast sessions in your area. That way you guys will be learning tunes that will be played in your area. We can give you *our* lists, but for instance the three major sessions around here all play different tunes, so much so that you can end up only having about 10 tunes in common between the three on any given night...
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I don't know if anybody has it, but one of the essentials for all Irish musicians is the tune book "O'Neill's Music of Ireland" which contains over a thousand "fiddle" tunes with the suggested ornamentation written in. I don't know where I would be without it today. So if you don't have it already, GET IT!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
A word of warning regarding O'Neill. Although the "1001" and "1850" are without doubt invaluable reference resources, and we shall always be grateful to the O'Neills for what they've done, imo the collections should be treated with a little caution, especially by beginners.
The transcriptions were probably not always 100% accurate, and O'Neill's "suggested" ornaments are sometimes inappropriate. It can also be anyone's guess whether a particular note should be a F# or a Fnat, especially if it was played as a "trick" F - between Fnat and F# (in other words a "supernatural" F) - which cannot be notated without using special notation.
Don't forget that in those days recording equipment wasn't around; a tune would be played through a number of times until the transcriber thought he "had" it, but each play-through would probably have been slightly different (as would be expected from an aural tradition). There are believed to be some instances where the transcriber couldn't remember part of a tune and made it up!
I also got the impression from O'Neill that the transcribers may not have always been quite on the ball when it came to the modal aspects of Irish music, and it seems in some cases that tunes were forced into the strait-jackets of major/minor keys.
In summary, use O'Neill by all means for reference, but when it comes to ornaments and tonality use as your guide what you hear today from good players, in sessions, live on stage, and on cd, and, of course, what you read on this website. When in doubt, have a word with your teacher or another experienced player.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Personally, a public venue is the better way to do it. A pub, veterans hall et al would be the better place. I am on travel for business, but there may be a place: Sundays, 3 to 4 ish ???-I'll check when I get back, somewhere around 1/25 or so. If there are others with ideas, email me through the session
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Thanks for that great advice Trevor, I agree with you entirely. While O'neill's is a definitive source, there's no way for beginners to truly learn how to play the unique ornamentation characterized by irish music without first hearing it performed. This holds true for all musicians, beginning and advanced, who have no experience in irish music. I got interested in irish fiddling after taking four years of classical violin lessons. I played the tunes like a violinist would and didn't know any better. And when I became aware of my incorrect style after listening to my first irish music CD, I had a tremendous ammount of difficulty making the transition from violinist to fiddler. (Of course, you're not required to choose one or the other; that's just the decision that I made and found that it made it easier for me to devote more time to fiddling without the distraction of classical music and it's many "proprieties"). I believe that the two most important and effective things a beginning irish intrumentalist can do is to listen to as much traditional irish music as possible and to play all the time. Let your irish music collection grow, and you'll find it is easier to listen to the music without growing tired of listening to the same three CDs over and over again. (I, personally, listen almost exclusively to irish music and I listen to it all the time. In fact, I listen to it so much that my sister has actually threatened to snap every one of my irish CDs in half!). The more you listen, the more you'll begin to feel the music instead of just hearing it. Also, when I say play all the time, I mean play ALL the time. Some people think this means "leave your instrument at home and only play it if you can afford to miss "Xena" 'cause it's a re-run". NO! Take it with you places. Play whenever you're not working or if you're walking someplace. I take my fiddle to school every day and play whenever I have the chance, including during class when we're not working on anything. In doing this, you're not only significantly improving by playing so much, you're also getting used to playing in front of people. My general experience has been that almost all people like Irish music (in moderation, of course) and will want you to keep playing after you finnish the first tune! Anyways, I just wanted to share these things with you guys (and write a book in the process) and thought that maybe you might find them helpful. Dia dhuit!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Sorry to take up so much room guys, but I just wanted to know if you'd heard about the revised edition of O'neills Music of Ireland? It kinda sounded like you had the old version that the Chief put together back in the early 1900s. Incorrect notes have been corrected and duplicate tunes removed. Just wanted to know.
Also, I wanted to tell you guys about the session up at Finn McCool's pub in Santa Monica. They have it every Sunday at 4pm and minors can join in. I've heard it's an absolutely awesome session, so you should check it out. I'm going for the first time this coming Sunday, so if anyone wants to join me just let me know! It is not a beginner's session, but it's still good to come and see how it's done.
IMPORTANT:
For those of you who have never participated in a session
before, you should know that they are generally not "anything
goes" sessions and that session etiquette should be followed
so that you don't piss off the old dudes who forgot to take their
prozak. Nothing seriously bad will happen, but it's always good
to be polite when you're the newbie!!! If you don't know what
session etiquette you can find
out by going to this site:
This is important, so please take it seriously, but don't
let it freak you out. It's really not all that bad 'cause there's
usually somebody more experienced there that will mentor
you. Just don't piss off the old guys!!!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I suggest we remove The High Road to Linton from the tune list. It seems to me like an obscure tune that most musicians won't know, but that's just my opinion. Every session has it's own "set" (not actually a set, just a compilation of tunes) of tunes it will play, depending on the most experienced musician there. So that's just my opinion.
I also suggest that we add LAINGTON'S REEL to the list. It's a great tune, but (no offense to the builder of the site), I don't really like the arrangement on this site. Listen to Kevin Burke's recording of the tune on his album "Sweeney's Dream". It's an awesome arrangement. Dia dhuit!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
OK. So the updated list is:
Reels:
The Abbey Reel
Brenda Stubbert's
Cooley's Reel
The Cup of Tea
The Dunmore Lasses
The Foxhunter's Reel
Laington's Reel
Sligo Maids
Bank of Ireland
Jackie Coleman's
Maid Behind the Bar
The Morning Dew
The Musical Priest
The Otter's Holt
Saint Anne's Reel
Toss the Feathers
Jigs:
Banish Misfortune
Coleraine
The Connaughtman's Rambles
Geese in the Bog
Kesh Jig
Morrison's Jig
Scatter the Mud
Swallowtail Jig
The Tenpenny Bit
Sean, would you or felinoba be willing to sort of take charge of this thing and guide us through it? I'm afraid that unless someone older, and with more experience takes control, this will never get off the ground. Of course, that could be asking too much of you, so let me know if it is. Don't want to impose. I just don't think that one of us younger folk would be capable of pulling something like this together. Thanks!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, I think you're about as capable of pulling something together as anybody would be...! A session is made up of players, and those players decide what the session is going to be like, what it's etiquette will be, and it evolves and changes and grows along with the players in it. While Phil's list of etiquette tips is good (I have his tunebook, as a matter of fact), remember that each session is different in it's collective expectations of it's members, and that you can always decide ahead of time what you want the session to be and control how it changes and grows. I highly suggest that you guys find an experienced player willing to attend at least every now and again to shepherd you guys along -- someone who gets out to a lot of the local sessions (and, importantly, is welcome at them all) would be ideal, and maybe asking different musos along to visit would be great. That way you can be sure of finding out about how the local sessions run, who the guiding lights of your communities are, and have someone at those session who knows you when you finally show up ready to play at the fast sessions.
BTW, I personally rarely use O'Neill's -- usually to check for how old a tune is, frankly, or very rarely to find alternate settings.
Max, did you ever get together with Rebecca Cirdon? Give us a report if you did!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, I'm sure I could help pull it together, but I thought it would be good to have someone more expereinced, like Sean, to kind of take control. I mean, someone has to do that, right? If that was me, I would have to find a place for us to meet. I woudn't be able to look that far from where I live, because I can't drive yet. :( I also woudn't be able to come all the time, unless it was rather close to where I live, for the same reason. Also, places where we could play, like churches and schools, more readily listen to older people than kids like me.
What I'm trying to say is that someone has to get the thing started keep it going, and arrange times and stuff like that. I would be more than happy to do that, although it would mean holding the session rather close to me, like in Santa Paula, Filmore or Ventura. I have several begining-to-play-ITM freinds down here, and a couple that have been playing longer, so they would be able to come too. And then there would probably be some students from Thomas Aquinas College that would like to come too. Of course, I will have to clear the whole thing with my parents, but they probably woudn't mind. So, Ian, Sean and Emmaline, if you don't mind driving a ways to get to the session, I would be happy to make it happen. Otherwise, I'm afraid it will have to be someone else. Let me know what you all think.
I haven't gotten together with Becca yet. She just got back on campus on Sunday, and sent me an email asking if I was still up for some tunes. I said yes, but I haven't gotten a reply back yet. Hopefully soon though!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, dear, old people like us used to be kids like you, although I suspect I wasn't quite as lovable as yourself. *grin* Never underestimate the power of the "aw, how cute" factor in getting what you want. Don't ask me how I know this. Please. ;)
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, the irish session is a cherished tradition that musicians have been passing down for hundreds of years. I know some people don't share my opinion, but personally, I see it as respectful and essential that we maintain that tradition along with it's etiquette and customs. I've found it to be much more fun playing in pubs rather than in churches or schools because of the feel of the environment. When playing in pubs, there's a much more relaxed, fun feeling. This is due to several things. First, just the appearance of the pub, with it's dark wood and low lighting is just fun to be in and just makes it feel more traditional. Second, the social environment is different in a crowded and noisy pub than it is in an empty, silent church or school room. It's like when you're not having fun playing, you're just absorbing the fun through being in a social setting. Thirdly, in a quiet church room or school room there are going to be a lot of empty, awkward silences in between tunes, and just breaks the general flow of a session (the flow is a large part in making an irish session fun). So in conclusion, I feel that doing things the way they've always been traditionally done is the best way to do it. To be honest, I wouldn't really be interested in attending a session if it was at someone's house (no offense, it was a good idea nonetheless). And lastly, as much as I am flattered by your request that I lead the session, I feel that the session is a group activity. I can and will be pleased to arrange a session, but beyond that, it's up to the musicians to make it a good one. So let's talk and we'll arrange something. Dia dhuit!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Er, not to be ornery or anything, but house sessions can be heaven. Full of flow and nyah and crack and toonage and pints and everything that puts steam in a session. Pubs are great fun, and I agree with if1985's basic assessment of them, but the right people can make a house session crank. Besides, most historians agree the "tradition" of pub sessions isn't very old--certainly no more than 60 or 70 years. No doubt people have been sitting in their neighbor's kitchens swapping tunes at least that far back....
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Sean (and anyone else who wants to read)- Thanks for sending the recommendation for the Harp. I actually sent the owner an email asking whether he lets ankle-biters like me into the pub to play music, and his single word reply was: YES (I had to make sure that you weren't sneaking in through the back door!). I'll probably be there the next second Sunday of the month, thanks a lot! Note: I tried sending you an email saying pretty much the same thing. Either you didn't get it at all, or you got two emails. Something went a little funky.
Question to my teenage (and teenage at heart) comrades: Since I just discovered that the owner of the harp will let us in, what d'you reckon that all of us teenagers go to the Harp Inn in Costa Mesa all at the same time instead of braving it alone with scary old drunk accordion players? (No offense meant if you are scary, old, or like to get drunk) Or instead of trying to set up our own session? We could raid the old fogies all at once! It would be an invasion! It would be really, really fun! Then after we meet each other in public, we can swap numbers and such to plan our own session if we want to.Three cheers for Emmaline's Safety in Numbers Plan! Will we try it at least once?
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Um. What Will said. Sessions aren't all that old, and they aren't all that traditional. "Awkward" pauses between tunes are generally filled with non-awkward talking between friends who happen to play music when they get together, no matter what room they happen to be in...some of the best sessions I've ever been to have been in people's houses, usually in the largest room that'll seat the most, but occasionally in someone's kitchen at the table with three or four of us.
(One of my fondest memories is of sitting around the table of a friend's house in Ireland, digressing from tunes into Beth Leachman singing every Simon and Garfunkel song she could think of and Matt Heaton grabbing my fiddle and "playing" the string parts to Eleanor Rigby (which was hilarious because at the time he didn't really play the fiddle...) and us laughing ourselves sick because there we were deep in County Galway with a kitchen stocked full of our friends' favorite beer -- Miller and Bud, which none of us drink at home.)
Everybody plays the music for different reasons, though, and if you feel that being in a pub is part of that, fair play to you, I'm the last to say it's not fun. But you might not want to call hoary headed Tradition into it all...
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I would agree with you Zina, that awkward silences wouldn't occur between friends. But (no offense to anyone) we're not really friends. We don't even know eachother, and for all of us to get together in a quiet room (especially since some of the people are just beginning and don't know many tunes) I feel might put a damper on the hopes of some of the more inexperienced musicians. All I know is that I've tried doing both, playing in sessions at pubs and playing in sessions at people's (friends and strangers) homes, and it's just my preference to play in a pub. Like I said in my previous post: "I know some people don't share my opinion, but personally..." As for the part about it being traditional, I know sessions haven't ALWAYS been occuring in pubs and I know that a lot of sessions are just at houses and such, but nonetheless it is a tradition, and one that I have found more suitable for newbies. My first session was at a pub, (the Harp, actually), and I found it much more comfortable to be in an environment that is busy (and easier to keep a low profile). Now granted it just depends on the kind of people at the session. I've been to sessions where the host has been very kind to beginners and has mentored them along (The Harp was like that) and I've been to sessions where all they want to do is to play well without the distraction of a beginner. I just believe that for Max and the other beginners that it would be best to try it in a pub rather than an empty room. Especially if the session (like we're planning) is just starting out and nobody knows anyone.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
HEY GUYS:
THIS SUNDAY, THE 18TH THERE'S A SESSION AT FINN McCOOL'S IN SANTA MONICA AT 4PM. DOES ANYONE WANT TO GO? *it occurs every sunday at the same time
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Points well taken. Sounds like the Harp is a friendly place.
Max, let us know if an email petition from responsible (ahem), mature (i.e., old), good-hearted (I've yet to ever punch a man when he's drunk) session players from around the globe might help persuade your parents that a field trip to the Harp would not permanently fray your moral fiber....
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, frankly, Sean, it's not that I have a problem with you wanting to play at the Harp -- I had more of a problem with the whole "it's the hundreds-of-years-old-Tradition" speech. Don't go passing around erroneous info, okay? Anyway, you're much more likely to *become* friends when you can hear each other, was the other point, and actually talk. I lead a tune learning session and work with a lot of beginners. Quiet places work better for sessions than I think you might guess, but fair play, do what you think you'll enjoy as a group.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I'm getting the impression that you guys think anyone over the age of 16 is 'old'. Last time I checked there were no 'old, drunk accordian players' in any of our sessions. The main age groups being in the 20's-30's. But still getting the distinct impression that you'd find this old ...*sigh*.
Just for the record I'm happy playing whereever they serve beer.....'drunk' mebee but not 'old'!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Ahh 'tis myself, the self proclaimed fountain of information. From what I understand the "Pub Sessions" we know today started in London in the 50's. Michael Gorman, Bobby Casey & other big names around London were paid to "lead the music" I think the pub was the Herschel Arms (or some such) I'm thinking around Camdentown. I got this (possibly mis-)information from the liner notes of Magaret Barry's "Her Mantle so Green" but the cd's on loan (for about 10 bloody months now) so I can't check the details But that's the meat of it & I'm sticking to it.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
LOL -- Bridie, don't you remember being in your teens? Of *course* they think anyone over the age of, well, maybe not over 16, but certainly 30 is old to them.
I remember once doing an acting workshop with a bunch of middle school kids. We were doing an age walk, where they all walk around in a circle and you ask them to walk at different ages, like toddlers, and years 6, 15, 18, 25, and so on. I got to 35 and they all started hobbling around like old men and women with walkers. I started laughing and asked them how old their parents were and whether they walked like that, which got me sheepish smiles and a more normal walk...
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
weeeelllll - when I was 16 I remember thinking 28 was really, really old and was wondering why a friend who was 28 at the time wasnt married - I thought she was just plain weird. Strange - after about 22 it seems like everyone is the same age
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
It does, doesn't it? You wait. After a while, it'll be the other way around. After a while, they all start looking young.
Last Halloween there was a perfectly hilarious scene when Pete and I, Pete's stepbrother Dan, and one of Pete's friends from college days, Jim, and I all decided it would be fun to take the fireworks that we got up in WY over to the high school campus a couple of blocks from us and set them off. (We decided that would be the safest place, somewhere on miles of blacktop parking lot. For those of you who don't know, fireworks that leave the ground are illegal in many cities due to safety and fire hazards, but only to set off -- you can still own them, you see.) We started walking around to the back of the high school and spotted a cop car patrolling the high school. "Oh well," we thought, "maybe we can set them off in the street in front of our house." So we started back.
Well, we got stopped by six, count them, six cops, all of whom looked like they were barely old enough to have drivers licenses, much less carry a gun. All of us are over the age of 36, and we're getting stopped by KIDS in cop uniforms! LOL We're sort of hiding the fireworks behind our backs, and once the cops figured out that we weren't the domestic dispute they were looking for, all of us were trying not to laugh. *snort*
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Brad, I've heard an alternate theory that pub sessions first started in the States in the early 1900s--all the immigrants looking for friends and finding them in the pubs, and in the music. And the idea traveled back to Ireland in letters home. Can't recall where I heard this though--was it Mick Moloney? Ah me, senior moment. I'm 'ancient' at 45, smiling (no, not toothless yet over Bridie at twenty-something telling off teenagers about what "old" means, heh.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hey Zina: I don't pass out erroneous information, and what gives you the right anyway to make an accusation like that? It was rude and I was offended. Sessions began occuring in the mid 18th century due to changing patterns in Irish society, the harsh laws meant to stamp out gaelic culture (causing the decline of the harp and ushering in the instruments used in Irish music today) and the touring of modern day "Bards" through small villages, such as Turlough O'Carolan (which made music accessible to the masses). Though the sessions we play at today are different (though not completely different) than they were 250 years ago, they are sessions nonetheless.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Only cause my 15 year old cousin ask me what it was like to be old the other day....and then she was trying not to laugh when I was telling her I wasnt actually considered old! Sigh....I'm sure I was 15 like....a couple of years ago!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hmm - before you start a fight with Zina irishfiddler1985 - could you PLEASE put something in your bio! I'm assuming your 19 please correct me if I'm wrong!
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
OK folks. Sorry I took so long to reply, but I was gone all afternoon.
Maybe it would be a good idea to go to an already-going session and meet each other before we start something on our own. It would be a lot easier to work something out if we could actually talk to each other. Sean, I will beg and plead my parents to take me down to Finn McCool's, but I can't be sure that they will be willing. After all, it is a long drive, like an hour and 15 minutes or something. Whichever one took me would have to then stay at the pub with me and then drive me home. And they are already driving me to see Martin Hayes on Tuesday. I know they will take me eventually, but probably not this Sunday. I hope I'm not making it sound like my parents are grumpy and unwilling. They aren't at all. They are very generous and helpful and encouraging, but they do have full lives, and can't be taking me everywhere. They don't share my great love for ITM, so they just see it as another something that I like to do. If I can't make it down this Sunday, will you be there other Sundays too? And what about you, Ian and Emmaline? Will you be able to make it? It would be awesome if we could all be there at the same time, so we could talk about this together.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I heard about that too, so I'm not sure. As far as my house, it's probably off. Sorry about that. I bet we could use some space at my school. They are very community friendly, so it wouldn't be a problem.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, It seems like irish pub/restaurants are everywhere these days, (they morph into a pub when they stop serving food about 9:30 or 10:00 at night). I've been in 3 of them in the Pasadena area in the last two weeks. A large percentage of them have outdoor seating areas. You might have a good shot at convincing one of them to let ya'll do an ongoing session (as long as it doen't get in the way of the sporting events on the TV). Can't hurt to ask. Could be good for pulling patrons in the front door. If you snag a place, they are going to want one person to be a contact. And they are going to expect to see that person at the session (at least for a period of time).
Ran-
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Will, you've got something there - I had a friend who was lucky enough to take lessons from James Morrison when she was a young girl. She told me that she learned in the backrooms of pubs before Morrison would go & have a session of music. This was probably in New York area & could have been no later than the mid 40's. I don't know the exact year he died, but I think it was the mid-40's. As a cute sidenote, he would also have her bring her homework with her & would help her with her studies before the lesson. I asked her what she called him & she looked at me as if I was crazy & said "Mr. Morrison, of course!"
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
LOL Brad -- of course! I've heard similar stories from old dancers about dance masters and teachers.
I've also heard of sessions in the early 1900's (and almost always in the US), but generally not before then. I had asked around Ireland and amongst the ethnomusicologists, being curious about it, and it's considered pretty certain that before the 1900's, it's likely that there wasn't a great deal of group playing. (The guitar, of course, was pretty much unheard of in this music until the 60s, and Kevin Burke told me about the older folk complaining about the new fangled accompaniment instruments, the bodhran and guitar, as late as 1974. He recalled one old gent who would get up, put away his instrument and stalk out if a guitarist had the temerity to appear in the circle.)
The teach cuirt and making ceilis at other folks' places seems to have mainly been reserved for talking, and largely for menfolk. The Travellers and the dance masters (among the few who traveled fairly widely around Ireland) often times were the musicians for the dances, and people chipped in a certain amount to pay the fiddler or piper, singular.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hello
James Morrison is my great grandfather. His youngest daughter Theresa is my paternal grandmother. I was wondering if anyone has heard of the book about him called the professor and where I could find it. It would mean the world to my family
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, I still can't find the verbatim quote, but it was Hammy Hamilton who said that the evidence suggests that sessions started in the US in the late 1800s as ex-pats went looking for each other. Hammy's Masters degree, btw, is in ethnomusicology--his thesis was on the history of Irish sessions. He's since completed a Ph.D.(on the role of commerical recordings in Irish trad music). And of course he's a stellar flute player and maker, not just an ivory tower wonk. Sounds like a well-informed source to me....
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
From what I've heard and read, though, Will, the sessions then didn't much resemble what we call sessions now -- much less ensemble playing and much more solo playing, or perhaps sometimes duets and smaller groupings of melody instruments. (I've seen plenty of ethnomusicologists come to verbal abuse over this same issue, though, with some on the pre-1900's side and some on the post 1800's side, so I'd say that the safest to say is, "it's up in the air and no one really knows for sure because they're all dead now".)
Is there anything in O'Neill's forwards that talk about something like sessions? That would be a good placer.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Aha. Here's what Hammy has to say in Fintan Vallely's "Companion to Irish Traditional Music" (New York University Press, 1999), p. 345:
"It is almost impossible to give a precise date of birth for the pub session. In some areas, notably the Sliabh Lucra region of the Cork/Kerry border, there was traditional music in some pubs by the late 1930s, but within the country as a whole, this seems to have been ahead of its time by several decades.... An input from returning emigrants, particularly from England where sessions were a feature in Irish pubs from the late 1940s, also had a role to play. The fleadh cheoil from the early 1950s also helped to reinforce the importance of the session as musicians from different parts of the country met and swapped tunes. Thus the sessions is essentially a phenomenon of the revivial."
Perhaps the mid-Twentieth century seems like 250 years ago to a 19 year old, but Hammy's research indicates that sessions are a relatively recent addition to the tradition.
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hi all,
I know this is an old post but do you all know about the beginners sessions at the Celtic Arts Center on Sundays?
Just noticed this thread 6 months late.
Steve Shapiro
Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Is anyone interested in starting a beginner's session in West LA or Santa Monica? I've always wanted to play in a session and have been trying to get my friends together for one, but they're always scared of performing because none of us have been playing for very long (we're still in our mid teens). I was wondering if there's anyone else who would be interested in starting a session in LA or Santa Monica for beginners. If so, please respond to this discussion.
Thank you,
Ian Martyn
# Posted on January 11th 2004 by MooglePower
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I'm all for it, being a mid-teen beginner myself. I'm not exactly in LA but I'm not too far away.
-Max
# Posted on January 11th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
That sounds really good, especially since pubs are off limits for me for about 5 more years. I live in Yorba Linda (about 15 minutes north of Disneyland) and would like to get together with people who are into ITM also. I'm up for a trek of about an hour, but if it's over that, then hmmm...This would have to be on the weekend anyways. I'd really like to meet you guys, Ian and Max and company!
# Posted on January 11th 2004 by Emmaline
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Weekends would be the only thing that would work for me too. And I'd only be able to come if I can get my parents to drive me. Sounds like fun though, so lets not let this slip through our fingers.
-Max
# Posted on January 11th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Yes this sounds like fun ^_^
Thank you for replying. I can only do it on weekends too, so it's ok. We could probably do it at my house or someplace else. I can't really think of anything.
# Posted on January 11th 2004 by MooglePower
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
there are folks in brea/fullerton that wouln't mind a session. drop me an email as well
# Posted on January 11th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
hey this is Seán. I'm an 18 year old fiddler from Long Beach. I've been playing for eight years and love it more and more each day. Anyways, If you guys don't mind, i'd like to join in on this. I play professionally with a band of middle aged guys from Costa Mesa, so I've got some connections if you want a place to play. Also, pubs are the place to do it. I know you guys keep saying you're not old enough, but my experience has been that when they have sessions they let you in anyways. Just try walking in, see if the bouncer (if there is one) says anything. Anyways, please keep in touch. You can reach me at irishfiddler1@msn.com
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
HEY!!! What about us middle aged guys!!!!!! Just cuz I took a break between sessions (like 15 years or so) doesn't mean.... WheN I was your age...
FEL
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Can I offer to set things in stone? I know I'm being a little bold, so if anyone has any objections or better ideas, please post them.
Date: Saturday, 31st of January, 4:00 pm
Place: Ian's house?
Bring: Your instrument(s), friends, and a potluck dish or drinks (non-alcoholic, that's our dilemma in the first place, isn't it?)
So there, all you sessionless folk! We now have a session!
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by Emmaline
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, I do want it to happen, but I don't know if it's wise to jump so soon. My parents would not like the idea of me going to someone's house they didn't know. "I play professionally with a band of middle aged guys from Costa Mesa, so I've got some connections if you want a place to play" It would probably be better to take Sean up on that, Emmaline. Do you think you could find a place, Sean? That would really great, if you could. It seems that if you are from Long Beach, Ian and Emmaline are from LA, I am from Santa Paula and there folks interested in Brea/Fullerton, it would be best to find a somewhat central location. Of couse, this might not be possible, and some people will obviously end up driving farther than others. And Ian, you were thinking of a begginer's session, not just a young folk's session, right? So someone like Felinoba, or other middle-aged folks, would be more than welcome to participate, right? In fact, it would probably better to let someone who has a little more experience than us (like Sean or Felinoba) to take control of things, sort of. They would certainly be able to handle things better than we could, having had some experience with this sort of thing. Thanks for offering your help and participation, Sean and Felinoba. I would love to get this started. BTW -- I have ITM playing freinds in Ojai that would probably love to join us as well. I will talk to them about it as soon as I can.
-Max
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Give some thought to where you house the session--a private house is good for avoiding the scrutiny of an audience, but there are significant safety concerns (especially when mixing kids and grown ups having met only over the net), plus, it can get ugly inviting strangers to someone else's house. Suddenly you're responsible for the behavior of someone you've never met, in the living room of yet another stranger.
A public place makes the session generally more accessible, open to the serendipity factor (players stumbling across it), and helps to foster a sense of committment among the players. It also helps to stick to a regular schedule, weekly or monthly or whatever, at the same venue. Just so word of mouth can get around that "there's usually Irish music going down at the Fast Twitch Cafe the first Saturday of every month."
Of course, if it were easy to find an appropriate quasi-public place for your session, you'd already be there, right? So other than bars, here are a few possibilities that have worked for sessions I've attended:
Churches (meeting room, basement, sunday school classroom, etc.)
Schools (clear it with the janitor)
Student Union buildings on college campuses
Coffee houses (except it can start to feel like a performance if it's crowded with non-players)
Public libraries (some have community rooms well insulated so sound doesn't carry to the library itself)
Music stores
YMCA or YWCA
Irish-themed stores (some restaurants, but also woolen/linen shops)
Also, now that a bunch of you have connected online, you might consider swapping tune lists by email so you know what tunes you have in common. At least you'll be able to play right off, rather than spending an hour going, "Does anybody know this one?"
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Thanks Will! Maybe we could find some church to play at. Good idea about the tune list. Do you think you, or someone else who knows, could give us a list of not to hard or obscure session tunes to learn so we could have some tunes in common?
-Max
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hey Zina...Max wants a list, heh, heh, heh. You're the Queen of Threads. Where is that confounded "short" list of common session tunes?
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Ah, here 'tis. This should get you started
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/110/comments#comment1447
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Common session tunes
Here are the most popular tunes in tunebooks at The Session:
http://thesession.org/members/index.php/tunebook
# Posted on January 12th 2004 by Jeremy
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
LOL Maybe I should have said "small" list, Will.
Thanks for helping us there, Will and Jeremy. I am going to go through that list and create a smaller one, now. I am thinking that we should start out with not too many, and not too hard tunes. If anyone else has any changes that they think should be made to it, let me know. Here it is:
Reels:
The Abbey Reel
Brenda Stubbert's
Cooley's Reel
The Cup of Tea
The Dunmore Lasses
The Foxhunter's Reel
The High Road to Linton
Jackie Coleman's
Maid Behind the Bar
The Morning Dew
The Musical Priest
The Otter's Holt
Saint Anne's Reel
Toss the Feathers
Jigs:
Banish Misfortune
Coleraine
The Connaughtman's Rambles
Geese in the Bog
Kesh Jig
Morrison's Jig
Scatter the Mud
Swallowtail Jig
The Tenpenny Bit
OK. Let me know what you think. Most of these tunes I don't know, or at least not very well, so I would have a lot of learning to do.
-Max
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, that's a great start. Those are all tunes that should eventually be under your fingers, and you've done a good job of choosing ones that shouldn't prove too tricky in the beginning.
Bear in mind: some people will browbeat you for playing these "old warhorses." But the same people would likely browbeat you for *not* knowing these same tunes. So learn 'em and play 'em and use 'em to kick start your session.
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
P.S. Add Sligo Maids and Bank of Ireland to your list of reels.
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I kind of tried to pick "old warhorses" simply because they are tunes we all should know, and they usually aren't that dificult to play. Thanks for adding those two reels. Anybody else have any changes?
-Max
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, starting off with those will do you guys just fine. I think your best bet after that would be to check in with local musicians rather than us and find out what tunes they tend to play at their sessions at the fast sessions in your area. That way you guys will be learning tunes that will be played in your area. We can give you *our* lists, but for instance the three major sessions around here all play different tunes, so much so that you can end up only having about 10 tunes in common between the three on any given night...
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I don't know if anybody has it, but one of the essentials for all Irish musicians is the tune book "O'Neill's Music of Ireland" which contains over a thousand "fiddle" tunes with the suggested ornamentation written in. I don't know where I would be without it today. So if you don't have it already, GET IT!
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I have both versions and they are awesome! Lots of great tunes in there.
-Max
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
A word of warning regarding O'Neill. Although the "1001" and "1850" are without doubt invaluable reference resources, and we shall always be grateful to the O'Neills for what they've done, imo the collections should be treated with a little caution, especially by beginners.
The transcriptions were probably not always 100% accurate, and O'Neill's "suggested" ornaments are sometimes inappropriate. It can also be anyone's guess whether a particular note should be a F# or a Fnat, especially if it was played as a "trick" F - between Fnat and F# (in other words a "supernatural" F) - which cannot be notated without using special notation.
Don't forget that in those days recording equipment wasn't around; a tune would be played through a number of times until the transcriber thought he "had" it, but each play-through would probably have been slightly different (as would be expected from an aural tradition). There are believed to be some instances where the transcriber couldn't remember part of a tune and made it up!
I also got the impression from O'Neill that the transcribers may not have always been quite on the ball when it came to the modal aspects of Irish music, and it seems in some cases that tunes were forced into the strait-jackets of major/minor keys.
In summary, use O'Neill by all means for reference, but when it comes to ornaments and tonality use as your guide what you hear today from good players, in sessions, live on stage, and on cd, and, of course, what you read on this website. When in doubt, have a word with your teacher or another experienced player.
Trevor
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Personally, a public venue is the better way to do it. A pub, veterans hall et al would be the better place. I am on travel for business, but there may be a place: Sundays, 3 to 4 ish ???-I'll check when I get back, somewhere around 1/25 or so. If there are others with ideas, email me through the session
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Thanks for that great advice Trevor, I agree with you entirely. While O'neill's is a definitive source, there's no way for beginners to truly learn how to play the unique ornamentation characterized by irish music without first hearing it performed. This holds true for all musicians, beginning and advanced, who have no experience in irish music. I got interested in irish fiddling after taking four years of classical violin lessons. I played the tunes like a violinist would and didn't know any better. And when I became aware of my incorrect style after listening to my first irish music CD, I had a tremendous ammount of difficulty making the transition from violinist to fiddler. (Of course, you're not required to choose one or the other; that's just the decision that I made and found that it made it easier for me to devote more time to fiddling without the distraction of classical music and it's many "proprieties"). I believe that the two most important and effective things a beginning irish intrumentalist can do is to listen to as much traditional irish music as possible and to play all the time. Let your irish music collection grow, and you'll find it is easier to listen to the music without growing tired of listening to the same three CDs over and over again. (I, personally, listen almost exclusively to irish music and I listen to it all the time. In fact, I listen to it so much that my sister has actually threatened to snap every one of my irish CDs in half!). The more you listen, the more you'll begin to feel the music instead of just hearing it. Also, when I say play all the time, I mean play ALL the time. Some people think this means "leave your instrument at home and only play it if you can afford to miss "Xena" 'cause it's a re-run". NO! Take it with you places. Play whenever you're not working or if you're walking someplace. I take my fiddle to school every day and play whenever I have the chance, including during class when we're not working on anything. In doing this, you're not only significantly improving by playing so much, you're also getting used to playing in front of people. My general experience has been that almost all people like Irish music (in moderation, of course) and will want you to keep playing after you finnish the first tune! Anyways, I just wanted to share these things with you guys (and write a book in the process) and thought that maybe you might find them helpful. Dia dhuit!
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Sorry to take up so much room guys, but I just wanted to know if you'd heard about the revised edition of O'neills Music of Ireland? It kinda sounded like you had the old version that the Chief put together back in the early 1900s. Incorrect notes have been corrected and duplicate tunes removed. Just wanted to know.
Also, I wanted to tell you guys about the session up at Finn McCool's pub in Santa Monica. They have it every Sunday at 4pm and minors can join in. I've heard it's an absolutely awesome session, so you should check it out. I'm going for the first time this coming Sunday, so if anyone wants to join me just let me know! It is not a beginner's session, but it's still good to come and see how it's done.
IMPORTANT:
For those of you who have never participated in a session
before, you should know that they are generally not "anything
goes" sessions and that session etiquette should be followed
so that you don't piss off the old dudes who forgot to take their
prozak. Nothing seriously bad will happen, but it's always good
to be polite when you're the newbie!!! If you don't know what
session etiquette you can find
out by going to this site:
http://www.c7r.com/sessionbook/etiquette.html
This is important, so please take it seriously, but don't
let it freak you out. It's really not all that bad 'cause there's
usually somebody more experienced there that will mentor
you. Just don't piss off the old guys!!!
# Posted on January 13th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I suggest we remove The High Road to Linton from the tune list. It seems to me like an obscure tune that most musicians won't know, but that's just my opinion. Every session has it's own "set" (not actually a set, just a compilation of tunes) of tunes it will play, depending on the most experienced musician there. So that's just my opinion.
I also suggest that we add LAINGTON'S REEL to the list. It's a great tune, but (no offense to the builder of the site), I don't really like the arrangement on this site. Listen to Kevin Burke's recording of the tune on his album "Sweeney's Dream". It's an awesome arrangement. Dia dhuit!
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
OK. So the updated list is:
Reels:
The Abbey Reel
Brenda Stubbert's
Cooley's Reel
The Cup of Tea
The Dunmore Lasses
The Foxhunter's Reel
Laington's Reel
Sligo Maids
Bank of Ireland
Jackie Coleman's
Maid Behind the Bar
The Morning Dew
The Musical Priest
The Otter's Holt
Saint Anne's Reel
Toss the Feathers
Jigs:
Banish Misfortune
Coleraine
The Connaughtman's Rambles
Geese in the Bog
Kesh Jig
Morrison's Jig
Scatter the Mud
Swallowtail Jig
The Tenpenny Bit
Sean, would you or felinoba be willing to sort of take charge of this thing and guide us through it? I'm afraid that unless someone older, and with more experience takes control, this will never get off the ground. Of course, that could be asking too much of you, so let me know if it is. Don't want to impose. I just don't think that one of us younger folk would be capable of pulling something like this together. Thanks!
-Max
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, I think you're about as capable of pulling something together as anybody would be...! A session is made up of players, and those players decide what the session is going to be like, what it's etiquette will be, and it evolves and changes and grows along with the players in it. While Phil's list of etiquette tips is good (I have his tunebook, as a matter of fact), remember that each session is different in it's collective expectations of it's members, and that you can always decide ahead of time what you want the session to be and control how it changes and grows. I highly suggest that you guys find an experienced player willing to attend at least every now and again to shepherd you guys along -- someone who gets out to a lot of the local sessions (and, importantly, is welcome at them all) would be ideal, and maybe asking different musos along to visit would be great. That way you can be sure of finding out about how the local sessions run, who the guiding lights of your communities are, and have someone at those session who knows you when you finally show up ready to play at the fast sessions.
BTW, I personally rarely use O'Neill's -- usually to check for how old a tune is, frankly, or very rarely to find alternate settings.
Max, did you ever get together with Rebecca Cirdon? Give us a report if you did!
Zina
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, I'm sure I could help pull it together, but I thought it would be good to have someone more expereinced, like Sean, to kind of take control. I mean, someone has to do that, right? If that was me, I would have to find a place for us to meet. I woudn't be able to look that far from where I live, because I can't drive yet. :( I also woudn't be able to come all the time, unless it was rather close to where I live, for the same reason. Also, places where we could play, like churches and schools, more readily listen to older people than kids like me.
What I'm trying to say is that someone has to get the thing started keep it going, and arrange times and stuff like that. I would be more than happy to do that, although it would mean holding the session rather close to me, like in Santa Paula, Filmore or Ventura. I have several begining-to-play-ITM freinds down here, and a couple that have been playing longer, so they would be able to come too. And then there would probably be some students from Thomas Aquinas College that would like to come too. Of course, I will have to clear the whole thing with my parents, but they probably woudn't mind. So, Ian, Sean and Emmaline, if you don't mind driving a ways to get to the session, I would be happy to make it happen. Otherwise, I'm afraid it will have to be someone else. Let me know what you all think.
I haven't gotten together with Becca yet. She just got back on campus on Sunday, and sent me an email asking if I was still up for some tunes. I said yes, but I haven't gotten a reply back yet. Hopefully soon though!
-Max
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, dear, old people like us used to be kids like you, although I suspect I wasn't quite as lovable as yourself. *grin* Never underestimate the power of the "aw, how cute" factor in getting what you want. Don't ask me how I know this. Please. ;)
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, the irish session is a cherished tradition that musicians have been passing down for hundreds of years. I know some people don't share my opinion, but personally, I see it as respectful and essential that we maintain that tradition along with it's etiquette and customs. I've found it to be much more fun playing in pubs rather than in churches or schools because of the feel of the environment. When playing in pubs, there's a much more relaxed, fun feeling. This is due to several things. First, just the appearance of the pub, with it's dark wood and low lighting is just fun to be in and just makes it feel more traditional. Second, the social environment is different in a crowded and noisy pub than it is in an empty, silent church or school room. It's like when you're not having fun playing, you're just absorbing the fun through being in a social setting. Thirdly, in a quiet church room or school room there are going to be a lot of empty, awkward silences in between tunes, and just breaks the general flow of a session (the flow is a large part in making an irish session fun). So in conclusion, I feel that doing things the way they've always been traditionally done is the best way to do it. To be honest, I wouldn't really be interested in attending a session if it was at someone's house (no offense, it was a good idea nonetheless). And lastly, as much as I am flattered by your request that I lead the session, I feel that the session is a group activity. I can and will be pleased to arrange a session, but beyond that, it's up to the musicians to make it a good one. So let's talk and we'll arrange something. Dia dhuit!
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Er, not to be ornery or anything, but house sessions can be heaven. Full of flow and nyah and crack and toonage and pints and everything that puts steam in a session. Pubs are great fun, and I agree with if1985's basic assessment of them, but the right people can make a house session crank. Besides, most historians agree the "tradition" of pub sessions isn't very old--certainly no more than 60 or 70 years. No doubt people have been sitting in their neighbor's kitchens swapping tunes at least that far back....
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Sean (and anyone else who wants to read)- Thanks for sending the recommendation for the Harp. I actually sent the owner an email asking whether he lets ankle-biters like me into the pub to play music, and his single word reply was: YES (I had to make sure that you weren't sneaking in through the back door!). I'll probably be there the next second Sunday of the month, thanks a lot! Note: I tried sending you an email saying pretty much the same thing. Either you didn't get it at all, or you got two emails. Something went a little funky.
Question to my teenage (and teenage at heart) comrades: Since I just discovered that the owner of the harp will let us in, what d'you reckon that all of us teenagers go to the Harp Inn in Costa Mesa all at the same time instead of braving it alone with scary old drunk accordion players? (No offense meant if you are scary, old, or like to get drunk) Or instead of trying to set up our own session? We could raid the old fogies all at once! It would be an invasion! It would be really, really fun! Then after we meet each other in public, we can swap numbers and such to plan our own session if we want to.Three cheers for Emmaline's Safety in Numbers Plan! Will we try it at least once?
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Emmaline
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Um. What Will said. Sessions aren't all that old, and they aren't all that traditional. "Awkward" pauses between tunes are generally filled with non-awkward talking between friends who happen to play music when they get together, no matter what room they happen to be in...some of the best sessions I've ever been to have been in people's houses, usually in the largest room that'll seat the most, but occasionally in someone's kitchen at the table with three or four of us.
(One of my fondest memories is of sitting around the table of a friend's house in Ireland, digressing from tunes into Beth Leachman singing every Simon and Garfunkel song she could think of and Matt Heaton grabbing my fiddle and "playing" the string parts to Eleanor Rigby (which was hilarious because at the time he didn't really play the fiddle...) and us laughing ourselves sick because there we were deep in County Galway with a kitchen stocked full of our friends' favorite beer -- Miller and Bud, which none of us drink at home.)
Everybody plays the music for different reasons, though, and if you feel that being in a pub is part of that, fair play to you, I'm the last to say it's not fun. But you might not want to call hoary headed Tradition into it all...
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I would agree with you Zina, that awkward silences wouldn't occur between friends. But (no offense to anyone) we're not really friends. We don't even know eachother, and for all of us to get together in a quiet room (especially since some of the people are just beginning and don't know many tunes) I feel might put a damper on the hopes of some of the more inexperienced musicians. All I know is that I've tried doing both, playing in sessions at pubs and playing in sessions at people's (friends and strangers) homes, and it's just my preference to play in a pub. Like I said in my previous post: "I know some people don't share my opinion, but personally..." As for the part about it being traditional, I know sessions haven't ALWAYS been occuring in pubs and I know that a lot of sessions are just at houses and such, but nonetheless it is a tradition, and one that I have found more suitable for newbies. My first session was at a pub, (the Harp, actually), and I found it much more comfortable to be in an environment that is busy (and easier to keep a low profile). Now granted it just depends on the kind of people at the session. I've been to sessions where the host has been very kind to beginners and has mentored them along (The Harp was like that) and I've been to sessions where all they want to do is to play well without the distraction of a beginner. I just believe that for Max and the other beginners that it would be best to try it in a pub rather than an empty room. Especially if the session (like we're planning) is just starting out and nobody knows anyone.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
HEY GUYS:
THIS SUNDAY, THE 18TH THERE'S A SESSION AT FINN McCOOL'S IN SANTA MONICA AT 4PM. DOES ANYONE WANT TO GO? *it occurs every sunday at the same time
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Points well taken. Sounds like the Harp is a friendly place.
Max, let us know if an email petition from responsible (ahem), mature (i.e., old), good-hearted (I've yet to ever punch a man when he's drunk) session players from around the globe might help persuade your parents that a field trip to the Harp would not permanently fray your moral fiber....
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
"scary old drunk accordion players? (No offense meant if you are scary, old, or like to get drunk)"
What about if we *also* play the accordion?
Grrr....>hick
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by coyotebanjo
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, frankly, Sean, it's not that I have a problem with you wanting to play at the Harp -- I had more of a problem with the whole "it's the hundreds-of-years-old-Tradition" speech.
Don't go passing around erroneous info, okay? Anyway, you're much more likely to *become* friends when you can hear each other, was the other point, and actually talk. I lead a tune learning session and work with a lot of beginners. Quiet places work better for sessions than I think you might guess, but fair play, do what you think you'll enjoy as a group.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I'm getting the impression that you guys think anyone over the age of 16 is 'old'. Last time I checked there were no 'old, drunk accordian players' in any of our sessions. The main age groups being in the 20's-30's. But still getting the distinct impression that you'd find this old ...*sigh*.
Just for the record I'm happy playing whereever they serve beer.....'drunk' mebee but not 'old'!
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Ahh 'tis myself, the self proclaimed fountain of information. From what I understand the "Pub Sessions" we know today started in London in the 50's. Michael Gorman, Bobby Casey & other big names around London were paid to "lead the music" I think the pub was the Herschel Arms (or some such) I'm thinking around Camdentown. I got this (possibly mis-)information from the liner notes of Magaret Barry's "Her Mantle so Green" but the cd's on loan (for about 10 bloody months now) so I can't check the details But that's the meat of it & I'm sticking to it.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Brad Maloney
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
LOL -- Bridie, don't you remember being in your teens? Of *course* they think anyone over the age of, well, maybe not over 16, but certainly 30 is old to them.
I remember once doing an acting workshop with a bunch of middle school kids. We were doing an age walk, where they all walk around in a circle and you ask them to walk at different ages, like toddlers, and years 6, 15, 18, 25, and so on. I got to 35 and they all started hobbling around like old men and women with walkers. I started laughing and asked them how old their parents were and whether they walked like that, which got me sheepish smiles and a more normal walk...
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Oh, Brad, I believe that somewhere I've heard of pub sessions in maybe between the Wars, but could be wrong...
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
weeeelllll - when I was 16 I remember thinking 28 was really, really old and was wondering why a friend who was 28 at the time wasnt married - I thought she was just plain weird. Strange - after about 22 it seems like everyone is the same age
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
It does, doesn't it? You wait. After a while, it'll be the other way around. After a while, they all start looking young.
Last Halloween there was a perfectly hilarious scene when Pete and I, Pete's stepbrother Dan, and one of Pete's friends from college days, Jim, and I all decided it would be fun to take the fireworks that we got up in WY over to the high school campus a couple of blocks from us and set them off. (We decided that would be the safest place, somewhere on miles of blacktop parking lot. For those of you who don't know, fireworks that leave the ground are illegal in many cities due to safety and fire hazards, but only to set off -- you can still own them, you see.) We started walking around to the back of the high school and spotted a cop car patrolling the high school. "Oh well," we thought, "maybe we can set them off in the street in front of our house." So we started back.
Well, we got stopped by six, count them, six cops, all of whom looked like they were barely old enough to have drivers licenses, much less carry a gun. All of us are over the age of 36, and we're getting stopped by KIDS in cop uniforms! LOL We're sort of hiding the fireworks behind our backs, and once the cops figured out that we weren't the domestic dispute they were looking for, all of us were trying not to laugh. *snort*
They let us go with a warning.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Brad, I've heard an alternate theory that pub sessions first started in the States in the early 1900s--all the immigrants looking for friends and finding them in the pubs, and in the music. And the idea traveled back to Ireland in letters home. Can't recall where I heard this though--was it Mick Moloney? Ah me, senior moment. I'm 'ancient' at 45, smiling (no, not toothless yet
over Bridie at twenty-something telling off teenagers about what "old" means, heh.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hey Zina: I don't pass out erroneous information, and what gives you the right anyway to make an accusation like that? It was rude and I was offended. Sessions began occuring in the mid 18th century due to changing patterns in Irish society, the harsh laws meant to stamp out gaelic culture (causing the decline of the harp and ushering in the instruments used in Irish music today) and the touring of modern day "Bards" through small villages, such as Turlough O'Carolan (which made music accessible to the masses). Though the sessions we play at today are different (though not completely different) than they were 250 years ago, they are sessions nonetheless.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Only cause my 15 year old cousin ask me what it was like to be old the other day....and then she was trying not to laugh when I was telling her I wasnt actually considered old! Sigh....I'm sure I was 15 like....a couple of years ago!
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hmm - before you start a fight with Zina irishfiddler1985 - could you PLEASE put something in your bio! I'm assuming your 19 please correct me if I'm wrong!
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Accordion-player tipping?
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Tish
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
18
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by irishfiddler1985
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Tish, if they're old and drunk, they've no doubt already tipped, without our help.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Especially with the weight of an accordion strapped to their chests raising their centre of gravity 8>)
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Tish
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
...and over their bellys--lopsided for sure.
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
OK folks. Sorry I took so long to reply, but I was gone all afternoon.
Maybe it would be a good idea to go to an already-going session and meet each other before we start something on our own. It would be a lot easier to work something out if we could actually talk to each other. Sean, I will beg and plead my parents to take me down to Finn McCool's, but I can't be sure that they will be willing. After all, it is a long drive, like an hour and 15 minutes or something. Whichever one took me would have to then stay at the pub with me and then drive me home. And they are already driving me to see Martin Hayes on Tuesday. I know they will take me eventually, but probably not this Sunday. I hope I'm not making it sound like my parents are grumpy and unwilling. They aren't at all. They are very generous and helpful and encouraging, but they do have full lives, and can't be taking me everywhere. They don't share my great love for ITM, so they just see it as another something that I like to do. If I can't make it down this Sunday, will you be there other Sundays too? And what about you, Ian and Emmaline? Will you be able to make it? It would be awesome if we could all be there at the same time, so we could talk about this together.
-Max
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Umm... Sean? It says in this discussion http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/2635 that the Sunday night session at Finn McCools is closed.
"The session on Sunday nights is at Finn McCool's in Los Angeles, but it is now a closed session, so forget about showing up and playing."
Did you know about this?
-Max
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I heard about that too, so I'm not sure. As far as my house, it's probably off. Sorry about that. I bet we could use some space at my school. They are very community friendly, so it wouldn't be a problem.
-Ian
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by MooglePower
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Max, It seems like irish pub/restaurants are everywhere these days, (they morph into a pub when they stop serving food about 9:30 or 10:00 at night). I've been in 3 of them in the Pasadena area in the last two weeks. A large percentage of them have outdoor seating areas. You might have a good shot at convincing one of them to let ya'll do an ongoing session (as long as it doen't get in the way of the sporting events on the TV). Can't hurt to ask. Could be good for pulling patrons in the front door. If you snag a place, they are going to want one person to be a contact. And they are going to expect to see that person at the session (at least for a period of time).
Ran-
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by Ran
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
How far is the proposed session from Torrance and/or Long Beach? Thanks!
# Posted on January 14th 2004 by emily_bmore
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Will, you've got something there - I had a friend who was lucky enough to take lessons from James Morrison when she was a young girl. She told me that she learned in the backrooms of pubs before Morrison would go & have a session of music. This was probably in New York area & could have been no later than the mid 40's. I don't know the exact year he died, but I think it was the mid-40's. As a cute sidenote, he would also have her bring her homework with her & would help her with her studies before the lesson. I asked her what she called him & she looked at me as if I was crazy & said "Mr. Morrison, of course!"
# Posted on January 15th 2004 by Brad Maloney
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
LOL Brad -- of course! I've heard similar stories from old dancers about dance masters and teachers.
I've also heard of sessions in the early 1900's (and almost always in the US), but generally not before then. I had asked around Ireland and amongst the ethnomusicologists, being curious about it, and it's considered pretty certain that before the 1900's, it's likely that there wasn't a great deal of group playing. (The guitar, of course, was pretty much unheard of in this music until the 60s, and Kevin Burke told me about the older folk complaining about the new fangled accompaniment instruments, the bodhran and guitar, as late as 1974. He recalled one old gent who would get up, put away his instrument and stalk out if a guitarist had the temerity to appear in the circle.)
The teach cuirt and making ceilis at other folks' places seems to have mainly been reserved for talking, and largely for menfolk. The Travellers and the dance masters (among the few who traveled fairly widely around Ireland) often times were the musicians for the dances, and people chipped in a certain amount to pay the fiddler or piper, singular.
# Posted on January 15th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hello
James Morrison is my great grandfather. His youngest daughter Theresa is my paternal grandmother. I was wondering if anyone has heard of the book about him called the professor and where I could find it. It would mean the world to my family
# Posted on January 15th 2004 by candymarie77
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Well, I still can't find the verbatim quote, but it was Hammy Hamilton who said that the evidence suggests that sessions started in the US in the late 1800s as ex-pats went looking for each other. Hammy's Masters degree, btw, is in ethnomusicology--his thesis was on the history of Irish sessions. He's since completed a Ph.D.(on the role of commerical recordings in Irish trad music). And of course he's a stellar flute player and maker, not just an ivory tower wonk.
Sounds like a well-informed source to me....
# Posted on January 18th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
From what I've heard and read, though, Will, the sessions then didn't much resemble what we call sessions now -- much less ensemble playing and much more solo playing, or perhaps sometimes duets and smaller groupings of melody instruments. (I've seen plenty of ethnomusicologists come to verbal abuse over this same issue, though, with some on the pre-1900's side and some on the post 1800's side, so I'd say that the safest to say is, "it's up in the air and no one really knows for sure because they're all dead now".)
Is there anything in O'Neill's forwards that talk about something like sessions? That would be a good placer.
# Posted on January 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Aha. Here's what Hammy has to say in Fintan Vallely's "Companion to Irish Traditional Music" (New York University Press, 1999), p. 345:
"It is almost impossible to give a precise date of birth for the pub session. In some areas, notably the Sliabh Lucra region of the Cork/Kerry border, there was traditional music in some pubs by the late 1930s, but within the country as a whole, this seems to have been ahead of its time by several decades.... An input from returning emigrants, particularly from England where sessions were a feature in Irish pubs from the late 1940s, also had a role to play. The fleadh cheoil from the early 1950s also helped to reinforce the importance of the session as musicians from different parts of the country met and swapped tunes. Thus the sessions is essentially a phenomenon of the revivial."
Perhaps the mid-Twentieth century seems like 250 years ago to a 19 year old, but Hammy's research indicates that sessions are a relatively recent addition to the tradition.
# Posted on January 18th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Yes, but when did the pub session start in the States, I wonder?
# Posted on January 18th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
1750?
:-|
# Posted on January 18th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
Hi all,
I know this is an old post but do you all know about the beginners sessions at the Celtic Arts Center on Sundays?
Just noticed this thread 6 months late.
Steve Shapiro
# Posted on June 26th 2004 by steves
Re: Beginner's Session in West Los Angeles or Santa Monica
I re-read this thread by accident- did anything come of it????
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by I_Fel