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I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hello, everyone. my name is Jerone and i wish to study Irish Fiddle. The problem is, i'm American, and i have absolutely no way of studying the music the Best Way Possible... Live, In Ireland.
The thing is, i don't want to learn how to play just to show off, or just to study something so different. But i'm a Music Lover. I've played piano for 13 years come Feb. 28. I have the classical knowledge of scales and chords and all that good stuff from years of Private lessons, singing in choir from 8th-12th grade, and my own independent studies of music.
My piano teachers did a really good job of exposing me to many of the more popular styles of music, and the closest to Irish music i got, was Enya.
Over the last, almost decade, of my young 19 year old life, i've grown a great appreciation for the Irish, Celtic, and Gaelic cultures, all because the music is ever so wonderful. And recently i've been given a violin. Irish FIddle music looks soooo terribly FUN and awesome to play, and the way the songs make me feel are inexplicable. An example, a song titled "Sweet Castle Hill" that i picked up off one of these types of websites. It's such a CUTE song. It makes me feel like a little kid again. I asked myself, "Where is "Sweet Castle Hill"... Anyway back on topic...
I'm trying to find the best way for me to learn Irish Fiddle since i can't attend sessions in Irish Pubs. I'm afraid to pick the wrong book, or study the wrong modern artist, because i want to learn the Old Way. I'm even afraid to learn the way i started a couple days ago(Learning MIDI files by ear)
I want to play the same songs, the same way the original Irish artists did. I'm American so i know the way music can be perverted, and commercialized for money and fame XP. It disgusts me that people violate music in this way. So what i'm asking is, possibly some recordings, or even just names of the older Irish Fiddlers. I don't know ANY. Too bad for me, Enya isn't a Fiddler :( Also, the different styles of Irish Fiddle. I don't know WHERE to start, so i'm starting here by asking for help. Please someone. You would be blessing me with many years of musical joy. Irish music in general is so original and rich. The music takes me to a place that i thought only existed in video games.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"The music takes me to a place that i thought only existed in video games."
Yep, that's how it makes me feel, too. I play a reel and I'm riding horseback with Link across the green hills and glens of Hyrule. May the Triforce be with you.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"Yep, that's how it makes me feel, too. I play a reel and I'm riding horseback with Link across the green hills and glens of Hyrule. May the Triforce be with you."
Ummm, i'm not a Zelda fan... I'm saying, music takes me away from this real life. The games are only imaginery, but the music... it's Real. It makes me feel things that i don't often feel... and they feel good. There's so much music in the world, and it's a tragedy that i won't get to experience all of the good music that's out there. But before i die, Irish and Celtic music, are styles that i wish to learn how to express myself with. They are Spiritual, and Intimate. Most music has no feeling, no spirit, no love... just perversion. But this is one of the few styles of music that is actually inspired and real. Help me out?
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm sorry, have i offended you? If so, my apologies, i'm just looking for some help. It's frustrating enough picking up a new instrument after learning one so well. Violin is my 2nd instrument and i've wanted to learn for so long. Thank God i have some good friends, and they gave me one for Christmas, year before last. I have Celtic influences on Piano... but thats one thing. This Fiddle thing is hard :(
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Nope, no offense taken. Just finding it a little hard to take you seriously. Enya, video games, midi files, and music books....all about as far removed as you can get from demonstrating a serious interest in Irish traditional music.
But okay, I'll bite.
The U.S. has an abundance of good musicians who play Irish traditional music. No matter where in the States you live, it's likely that there's a session nearby and people who can give you a good start on understanding this music.
Other than exercising your ears and covering some basic music vocabulary and theory, your piano training isn't going to help you much at all in learning this music, or in playing fiddle. Best to find a fiddler who's willing to teach you face-to-face.
And consider losing the precious notion that this music is supposed to be pretty and sweet and Celtic and Spiritual. The more firmly you think that stuff, the harder it will be for you to hear and experience the real music.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm sorry but i'm very expressive(video games is where i discovered a lot of music outside of this Pop Trash that they play on the radio every day -.-) I first heard Enya in the 6th grade(my teacher would play her music during class, and i just happen to Love her music) And the MIDI files... I was desperate ok lol. I've only been doing this for about a week and i'm having a hard time finding where to start.
But it didn't take long to realize that listening to a stupid recorded keyboard *eeewww XP* wouldn't help me one bit. But it was the only place where i found a load of Irish Fiddle repertoire.
I do have basic music knowledge. And i am well trained at playing by ear. My teachers didn't teach me how to listen, they taught me how to read. The listening came on its own
But learning chord progressions, arpeggios, and variations outside of the normal Atonal Western music, by ear, on piano seems to me a lot harder than learning single noted melodies on the violin. It's not the notes i'm worried about, it's the style*being American kindof sucks sometimes* It's finding where in the world to start, but you've been helpful in sending me this video. This is the kindof music i'm talking about, thanks
If you wish to take the time outof your life to get to know what kindof musician i actually am, here's a link to one of my solo piano pieces...
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hello Jerone. You seem to be conflating various things in your post, if not in your mind: spirituality, romanticism, history, .. er.. horseback riding... but all is not lost. There are many fine Irish musicians (that is players of Irish music) in the world, and anyway I doubt that the best place to learn music is in an Irish pub. People like yourself with access to modern media can hear more music in a decade than in the 'Old Way' during a whole lifetime. This fiddle thing is hard? How hard was learning the piano? Of course it is a hard mountain to climb; but the view from the top is, as you suspect, magnificent. Search this website for information, of which there is a great deal, such as 'the best' fiddle/ melodian/ flute players, books, cds, instruments, strings. Search the web, avoiding glitzy, smoke-whirling light-flashing production stuff, and you will begin to see the same names cropping up as well as teaching sites.
You are off to a good start if you want to learn, but don't confuse wanting to learn with wanting to be able to play. Incidentally, if you really love the music, it is possible to play it on the piano, examples of which you can also find by searching the web. I welcome your enthusiasm, and rejoice in your rejection of the present day 'perversion' -- maybe a bit strong and loss of spirit. Keep away from midi files. Listen, analyse, listen, reproduce, listen, practise, listen.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"but don't confuse wanting to learn with wanting to be able to play."
Thanks Gam I like what you said here. It took several years to learn piano, but it took Revelations from God to learn how to actually Play my soul out into the keys. And that's just it, I want to play Irish Fiddle. I want to know it so well, that if i feel like it, i can pick up my Fiddle and work out my own Reel, just like i do on piano. And learning isn't the hard part. I've learned several songs in the last couple of days. Violin is A LOT easier than piano, but it's harder in it's own way(the bow and the strings) What's hard, is that there are so many books, so many names, so many websites(most of them don't work :/) SO many people advertising saying their books are the best. And music is so subjective, the only way to find out if you will like something is to listen to it yourself.
But thanks to Mr. Will up there, i have a lot of work to do Now i actually have something to listen to, Now i can actually listen to every County's style and find which one i like the most not just a link to a piece of sheet music that i don't even know is Irish.
About the learning. The good news is, i live in Austin Tx.(moved here almost 2 years ago) This is the live music capitol of the world. Surely i can find somewhere that has Sessions, or someone that teachers Irish Fiddle. I have the knowledge to learn on my own though, the fear is not knowing if i'm learning the best.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hi
I can really empathise with the things that Painist has written. I've recently retired (hoorah!), have a lot of free time on my hands and also desire to learn how to play authentic Irish music and fulfil an ambition of a lifetime - to play an instrument that is. But there are no Irish musicians where I live and certainly no authentic teachers. I attended my first folk music festival last year, which was very enjoyable and opened my eyes to a musical culture that I didn't know existed.
I met lots of women with bodhrans and I thought that a good entry point might be to learn how to play the bodhran. I went to some workshops and actually bought a drum. I even sat in at the back of some sessions and tried to play along a bit.. Groundbreaking at my age! But since then I've been lurking on this site ever since I was told I could learn more about The Music here and discovered bodhran playing is not valued so I have lost interest in going down that path.
I think with dedication I could learn the fiddle quite quickly. I am a very quick study but like Painist I have taken the advice of this board to heart and I want to learn how to play these tunes so I can play them in an authentic manner.
My friend is learning the ukelele and is making great progress. She has learned two beautiful songs off by heart - Carrickfergus and She Moved through the Fair, which she is preparing to play at a local nursing home and I would love to be able to accompany her on the fiddle. I sincerely want to be good at this music but I don't want to learn bad habits or music that is just a poor copy of Irish music as it is played in Ireland.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I think Pianist could do no better than refer to the beautifully expressed thoughts of Pilib O'Conchubhair in this earlier thread: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8643/ Unfortunately Pilib's message is not full of hope for Pianist, who relies on "Revelations from God to learn how to actually Play my soul out into the keys".I'm not sure leafmple is much help either as he/she hangs out with "lots of women with bodhrans" plus the other ukulele-playing friend. Good luck with playing the beautiful songs at the nursing home though!
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ah, "Sweet Castle Hill". From Waifs and Strays. Is it a song? It's not a tune I know, and I haven't been able to find any words ... What else does anyone know about it?
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Pianist, go to the Sessions section here and find one near you. Hang around and listen to everything that happens. This is wonderful music to play, but you will soon find out that it is very different from the classical world in just about every way. Absorb the music at the session level, and then you will be ready to think about playing tunes on that fiddle.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'd recommend get at least one lesson from a fiddle player - any style really - just to give you tips on holding the fiddle and the bow. Not that there's only one way to do these things but if you start out holding the bow like a hammer (as I first did years ago) you could sow bad habits that might hold you up for years.
However, I wouldn't worry too much about learning the "authentic Irish way". It may cramp your style at the outset. You'd probably need to have started fiddling at a very young age having been brought up in a large family where the family and the grandparents and all the neighbours and their relatives have played for generations in each other houses in a culture whose musical genius and passion for dancing was noted centuries back.
Listen to as many good Irish fiddlers you can - there's no shortage of recordings available. Kevin Burke, Frankie Gavin, Sean Keane, James Kelly, Tommy Peoples, Tommy Potts .....amongst umpteen others - immerse yourself in the music and feel your way. Martin Hayes plays many beautiful tunes that are simple in structure and at often a speed to make them accessible to the new ear. I was extremely fortunate to have attended a workshop with him last year in Ireland and he recommended listening to recordings of the old ceilidh bands to capture some of the spirit of ITM, because apart from the slow airs, it's all dance music.
If you’re looking for book tutors, "The Irish Fiddle Book" by Matt Cranitch offers all you're likely to need to know with regard to phrasing, ornamentation, bowing.. the whole nine yards basically. You might find this organisation has something to offer. http://comhaltas.ie/ - they produce recordings of tunes arranged in sets widely played in Ireland. The Dave Mallinson tune books - 100 Essential session tunes, 100 enduring session tunes will give you plenty of easy to read source material, containing tunes that are known just about everywhere in the pubs around Ireland in my experience.
I’ve found that didling (which is how so many tunes were passed on) through tunes that I’m learning is a good way to get a feel for them and sense where to put the rolls, cuts and taps.
Luckily there’s several lifetimes worth of incredible music awaiting your exploration so I’d recommend you just dive in and enjoy the dance.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I thought the ancient, authentic Irish way of learning tunes, the way they did it before modernization and all its evils had any effect on the beautiful Celtic ways of Ireland, was to huddle around a peat fire in the one room house, uttering charms to keep the fairies from stealing your sh*t and trying not to poke the cows or chickens with the fiddle bow and deciding which children you were going to pass on the venerated tradition to and which ones you were going to eat.
Wait, sorry, I'm confusing reality with Jonathan Swift essays.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
If you're starting fiddle from scratch, I'll re-emphasise what others have already said - get some lessons if you possibly can. But what I'd add to that (and I'll probably get shot down for this) is to get those lessons from a classical violinist. The reason being that a lot of fiddlers don't bother too much about technique. And if you pick up bad habits in the early stages, while you might still become a very competent fiddler, there will be a level that you can never get beyond without going back and sorting out those bad habits, which is much harder than getting it right from the start.
If getting lessons is completely impossible, then work from a violin tutor book - one which gives lots of advice about bow hold, hand position etc. not just pages of tunes to practice.
Don't ask other people for their 'reading lists' of tunes to learn. The tunes themselves aren't important, it's how you play them that counts. So while you're scratching away at 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star', learning the basics of the instrument, listen to every bit of Irish music you can find. Some of it you'll like, some of it you won't. Think about why you like some bits and not others, and by the time you've got the fiddle under control and doing what you want, you'll know exactly what you want to do with it.
Under Learner Videos, you'll see 4 other play lists of Magic Fiddlers.. All I've met and learned something off...
Different styles, but all very Irish... Hope this helps you !
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
In my experience with this music, the only helpful revelations come from good musicians, time spent in the woodshed, and whiskey. God is too busy trying to play like Frankie Gavin to spare time helping us mere mortals....
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ok folks i'm back thanks everyone for all of the helpful advice But i think i should re-emphasize that i am NOT a classical musician. I'm just classically trained. There's a difference.
I don't spend hours in front of one of Mozarts masterpieces, preparing to play for a thousand people to show how good of a technician i am. I'm far from that. I'm an improvisational musician. I'll say it this way, I have the freedom of a jazz musician, along with the tonal influences of new age and celtic music.
I don't have a "new" ear. matter of fact most of the classical songs i've learned has been by ear. My piano teachers realized it before i did and they struggled trying to teach me how to read without using my ear. I only ended up learning all of the essentials of music theory while gaining the ear to learn everything without a single note on a manuscript.
The thing is, everything that i've learned from my classical teachers, has helped me in learning more music faster. Cause when you add the knowledge of music theory, to an experienced ear, the results are exponential. It's great to know both.
I want to play Irish Fiddle cause it looks fun, and the songs that i play are fun I have fun on the piano, but i can't get up and dance with a piano :/ no i need a FIDDLE =D I'm a new fan of Mairead Nesbitt By the way, what do you all think of the group, "Celtic Woman" I love their "Pixie" but i don't know much else about them. Oh and Will, what's wrong with Enya?
Email those two folks here on the session.org. Tel them you are new and want to learn, and that you'll come to their session and become a serious beginner.
Protip: DO NOT mention Enya or Celtic Women. Most musicians playing this music don't care for them.
Listen closely, make friends with the people there, try to find a mentor/tutor. Listen to your elders, wash behind your ears, and don't say too much.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Thanks for all of the information and links everyone, i surely have enough to keep me occupied for months. And HEY! just because the music is different, doesn't mean it's bad. Enya is an amazing artist. I won't mention her at Sessions, but i am a loyal fan of hers. If it weren't for her i wouldn't be as happy with my piano music, her being one of my musical influences. But i figured since she was a Celtic artist, she would at least relate a little to Irish music, since she is from Donegal :/ Whatever...
And also, ALL Knowledge and Wisdom, does come from God. We think we learn things on our own, but it is Him that reveals.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
The "search" function is your friend. Search "Celtic Women" and you will find an archive-full of reasons why most people who hang about this website think it's shight.
Enya, Celtic Women, etc. are part of this whole New Age Celtic mysticism thing, which has a bit of a history in 18th and 19th century Romanticism, but in terms of accurately telling you anything about people who lived in certain parts of the world, a lot of it was made up in the late eighteenth century and is made up now. If the whole New Age woozy spiritualism is what you see in Irish traditional music, you'd better drop those ideas right now or if that's how you reallt want to express yourself musically, avoid most sessions.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
thanks "TheSilverSpear" And i play music for many different reasons. I do my worshiping and have my "spiritualism" with Piano. But it gets boring sometimes, and i wanna have some fun. Irish Fiddle seems to me the best way to do it.
I'll use the "Search" function and look up some of the other discussions. Thanks
The thing that really attracts me to the tunes, are the melodic progressions i hear. Some are just awesome to listen to, and if i learned anything from piano "Playing music is FAR more fun, than just listening to it" - Jerone Williams(ME)
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Avoiding proselytizing evangelicalism is probably a good idea as well. We won't hassle you with our religious beliefs (or lack thereof as the case may be) if you don't hassle us with yours.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Jon Kiparsky lol i like what you said. And this is true. But music is "subjective" like most Art, not everyone is going to like everything. And not everyone is going to hate everything. But in your opinion, what makes a bad song?
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'You'd get this gift from hardship and hard work and getting wet and cold weather. And lonesome lives. You'd learn the sad way, people living alone and maybe your relations to die. All that comes from that source ... 'It comes down out of the heavens in showers'. The gift of music.'
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm not hear to argue with people, i just want to learn Irish Fiddle. I've gotten some good help, so unless you're providing me with a link to where i can find the stories that associate with the tunes, a name of a real Irish Fiddler that has enough content online that i can study, or some notes on what makes Irish Fiddle so distinctive*which i've already learned..."Cause it's Irish", more the scales and progressions used* then you can get back on with your lives.
For everyone that is seriously here to help me, Thanks.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"deciding which children you were going to pass on the venerated tradition to and which ones you were going to eat"
Just reviewing some of this thread. Emily, you should be aware that in the period we're talking about almost all farmers lived more or less entirely on whatever would bring them the least income if sold*. So it's very unlikely that they'd eat the children, except perhaps for a very special feast day (or, for the sake of irony, at a christening). Instead, they'd sell the child to the English and continue to live on potatoes.
(*See Braudel, volume 1 of Civilzation and Capitalism)
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'You'd get this gift from hardship and hard work and getting wet and cold weather. And lonesome lives. You'd learn the sad way, people living alone and maybe your relations to die.'
Also for anyone that doesn't know, i'm Black. I'm not rich. I've had to walk in the rain. And i feel terribly lonely at times cause where i'm from people don't seem to have the same love and passion for music. They say i talk different, and act different. It's not my fault, music did it to me. And i do know what it feels like to live alone. I've had relationships deteriorate.
"The Irish were pushed from their homeland, The African were drug from theirs" So my culture and your culture, do relate very well to each other. You can stop with your sub-conscious stereotypes.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
so unless you're providing me with a link to where i can find the stories that associate with the tunes, a name of a real Irish Fiddler that has enough content online that i can study, or some notes on what makes Irish Fiddle so distinctive*which i've already learned..."Cause it's Irish", more the scales and progressions used* then you can get back on with your lives.
The place to learn the tunes, as I think several have said, is at a session. The way to do that is to go and to listen. A teacher is good - if you give some indication of what part of the world you're in, someone might be able to point you to someone who can help you.
What makes Irish fiddle so distinctive is the constellation of peculiarities shared among the set including Kevin Burke, Tommy Peoples, Liz Carroll, Frankie Gavin, et al - a set of "family resemblances", not a checklist of characteristics, and best learned by induction. Listen to stuff you like, and listen to it a lot, and get it into your head.
As for Enya, Celtic Women, and similar schlock - if you like it, listen to it, learn it, play it. I don't like it, but that doesn't mean anything except that if you play synthesizers around me for long enough I start getting twitchy.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
no, i wasn't talking about that. one of these posters sent me a link to a short letter telling me how i should give up and should never learn Irish music cause i'm not Irish. That is disheartening. Either they think i'm such rich kid with a British background, wanting to learn Fiddle to impress all of his friends at the polo club. It seems that they don't even consider that i have an appreciation for music, and want to learn it cause i want to feel it, play it, experience it. If people came to me asking how they could play ,my music, because they were fascinated with it and wanted to learn it for themselves. I would be happy to teach them. And i wouldn't discourage them by saying "You can't play my music cause you haven't lived my life." no, cause then noone could carry on this beautiful music that i have learned how to play on my piano, aka, "A harp laid down"
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
The link was meant to be tongue-n-cheek, I think. If you want a good read, check out the ensuing thread. That guy was basically being a douchebag and you'll find the vast majority of people who responded to his post calling him out on that.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I just skimmed the thread in question. The OP was most likely a session.org regular who was posing as a bit of a douchebag in order to wind people up.
See, you can't take anything you read on this site too seriously. Amongst the serious and genuine answers, people will be having a bit of a laugh. A lot of posters here, in the nicest way possible and this includes me not infrequently, are quite frankly full of sh*t.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"A lot of posters here, in the nicest way possible and this includes me not infrequently, are quite frankly full of sh*t."
Thanks "TheSilverSpear" for getting that cleared up. I read the replies to his post. It's nice to know that not everyone is like that. C/S Like i mentioned earlier, i'm from Austin Tx. so it shouldnt be terribly difficult to find a session somewhere. But i'd still rather learn Irish Fiddle from someone that's Irish, than someone that's American. My musical studies have proven that we can't help but be influenced by what we hear. I will follow the advice of taking one lesson to make sure i have good posture, so i don't develop arthritis, or carpel-tunnel syndrome later down the road. Just like i don't play piano slouched with my wrists bent in lol. But after that first lesson, i'll learn everything else on my own. Like i said earlier, i've been given a wealth of information here, and i have a lot to study now After i learn more about the Fiddle(thank God for prior Knowledge! I can pick up a Tune Book, and a CD with the son... tunes i mean, and learn some good
Thanks EVERYONE, you've all been HELPFUL. Keep discussing if you like, i'll check this thread everyday for new information.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ah, I remember those halcyon days of youth, the enthusiasms, the mad rush of hormones and endorphins, the garrulousness, the naivete, the lack of experience with which to temper ones behaviour.
You do well to remind us of this, young pianist. Sometimes, in our age and experience, we forget those heady days of yore.
You've been given some good advice here, as well as a few people extracting the urine ( this website is famed for it ).
I would just add that, if you learn a little, then start going off on your own doing your own thing, then you won't be doing whatever it was that inspired you in the first place, and people just won't want to play with you, because you won't be doing the thing that they like doing. People are strange like that.
If, on the other hand, you can apply yourself to join in with everybody else, then you will be welcomed to this strange world of wig-glue and well-swabed flutes, and other such things.
Good luck !
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I see nothing wrong with wanting to learn Irish music from
the Irish people instead of the Chicago and New York people
if you have the option. I'm sure Randal Bays has spent a lot
of time playing and learning over there
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Pianist.. Eithne Ní Bhraonain(Enya) is from Gweedore in Donegal . She is steeped in the world of traditional gaelic singing and is a beautiful singer. Keep enjoying her music. She is a great woman.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
And while we're on the subject of cultural stereotypes, I let this one slide when I first read it:
'Either they think i'm such rich kid with a British background, wanting to learn Fiddle to impress all of his friends at the polo club...."
So we apparently dislike the British and the Americans. Is there anyone else who can't play Irish music or who we just generally despise to add to the list? Anyone.....? Bueller....? Anyone....?
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Pianist, Best of luck to you, as you seem like a nice, well meaning person who loves music. I doubt you intended to, but you punched a lot of buttons with your remarks on this thread. The folks who habituate this website are generally players who like acoustic roots music, stripped of all gimmicks, and when they play at sessions, many don't even consider what they are doing a musical performance. Thus, the Broadway-type production values of Celtic Woman, and the layered, electronically lush sounds of Enya, are the antithesis of what they love the most.
Like many here, I will suggest getting a teacher, as teaching yourself fiddle is a task that often goes awry.
Don't worry about nationality or heritage, one of the best Irish fiddlers I know comes from a Filipino background, and there are many folks from all around the world that play this music very well, and get great joy from it. Get some CD's, find some concerts, listen to sessions, and get to know this music. I can see why you are drawn to it, and as you listen, you will begin to understand some of the things folks are saying to you above.
Good luck, and enjoy the journey!
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"If people came to me asking how they could play ,my music, because they were fascinated with it and wanted to learn it for themselves. I would be happy to teach them."
Fair play, what do you think of the links to the music clips thus far, Pianist? Are they tunes you'd want to play & styles of playing you wish to learn?
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"I doubt you intended to, but you punched a lot of buttons with your remarks on this thread."
Yea, i checked on one of my ealier, i guess you could say, "racist" remarks. Yeah sorry about that. It seems that me being human, it's easy to see others faults better than my own. I didn't mean to offend anyone, sorry. I got a little wound up.
And also, i'm still trying to figure out how this website works. I click a tune link and it sends me to another page with another list. SO i click something from that list, and it send me to another list... Maybe i should try again?
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
@shanty Thanks for the link! NOW I HAVE SOMETHING I CAN ACTUALLY PLAY ON PIANO!
Those people should be ASHAMED of themselves, making that poor woman play on a crappy keyboard! They should've given her a Grand to play on. My GOODNESS! It would've been so much cooler!
I may have to lay down the fiddle for a couple days just to try out these!
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
wow it fascinates me the things people can learn, that chick was BEASTING the... *tries to say* "Concertina"? that was pretty amazing. I'm searching through this website but there's SOOOOOOOOO MUCH MUUUUUUSIC! UGH! Hours and hours of searching looking for that one treasure that's only a minute and a half long. After i learn it, i can play it for the rest of my life. The searching was worth it.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"Those people should be ASHAMED of themselves, making that poor woman play on a crappy keyboard! They should've given her a Grand to play on. My GOODNESS! It would've been so much cooler!"
I don't think you've quite got it, Pianist. I don't know about other people, but I liked that clip just the way it was. She doesn't need a grand piano, and I for one would far rather a neat little keyboard like that for this kind of music.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Jerome - I heartily agree with you (as expressed in your email to me) that in the link I posted, Pilib is unkind to suggest that it's "wrong for a brother to discover this Treasure of an Art Form". Having thrilled to the beautiful playing on your YouTube channel, and found the description of your educational struggles on the Texas Baptist Home's website, I want to convey heartfelt greetings and encouragement for your journey in life. It is obvious from your voluble correspondence here that you have come a long way from the Jerone described there as having "always been a quiet child". However, I am alarmed that your musical progress may be distracted and set off-course by your new-found interest. It says that the fees alone at your study institution are $80,000, and I fear that the charitable donations might dry up if you spend all your time posting on this site and playing jigs and reels. No, stick to your original dream. Irish traditional music on a twelve foot grand piano would only be a dangerous byway on your path in life.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ben, it is a reverse snobism of the most ridiculous sort to say that it's perfectly fine for a piano player playing Irish music on a tiny sounding cheap electronic keyboard. I don't think it is, it sounds cheap and dead.
Does she need a Steinway grand, well, I don't think that either but to think it's fine for a piano player to sound like a living midi file, that's rubbish.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Aye, a nice wee upright would have done the job beautifully. There are some quite nice electronic pianos out there these days but I don't think even the best of them ever sound quite the same. The harmonics just aren't right.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
It's not "reverse snobism". I just liked it the way it was. a personal reaction, that's all. And i honestly think a grand piano would be OTT, as well as being inappropriate for the music.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'I don't think you've quite got it' is what you said.
I think I got it and I thought it sounded dead and tinny.
I don't know about a grand piano although I have seen Micháel O Súillebheánn, Padraig O Reilly and Geraldine Cotter (there may have been another pianist but I remember those three) do a multi piano job on a flock of grands.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hey pianist--I find your enthusiasm and honesty refreshing, THANK YOU.
I think you've gotten a lot of good advice from the people here and If you've started in this musical journey with Celtic Women you are just scratching the surface. You're in for a great musical journey. When you play this music don't think of riding horseback over green hills--try thinking of sweaty 19th century American dance halls or dive bars in eastern cities where African Americans mingled with Irish immigrants , had dance competitions, created tap, played jigs and reels on pianos, fiddles, banjos, tambourines and created new out of old. Couple it all along with roots blues and the beginings of ragtime (a little later) and it paints quite a picture of PEOPLE. People that I can relate to anyway, as opposed to video games or fantasy.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I agree with the Prof. Those little electronic pianos are the equivalent of playing fiddle on a 40 euro chinese fiddle. Why not aspire to the best sounding piano the way a concertina player will eventually need a Jeffries.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I agree with the prof too. I have nothing against electronic pianos, but they MUST have a dynamic keyboard. This music is totally reliant on dynamics for its heartbeat and life, and with a non-dynamic piano you cease to be a musician, and become just a human midi sequencer.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Well, Ben to me it sounded like you were saying a grand piano would be altogether to grand for this type of music and that a small cheap keyboard like the one in the clip was quite sufficient for Irish music. But maybe you were just talking about the practicalities of size, I don't know. Water under the bridge though, let's leave it there.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
About the Grand piano thing. Im saying, she wasn't playing in a session, it was a solo. So they could've let her play on a Grand. Surely she would've enjoyed it a lot more on a beautifully made acoustic instrument.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
It was not a situation where 'they' had anything to decide with regards to what she played on. Those clips are filmed at Fleadhanna and people turn up bringing their own instruments. Comhaltas buying a Steinway to facilitate the keyboarders, that'll be the day.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Loved the clip of Catriona on the piano, Shanty. Great stuff!
Pianist – I’m also a classically trained pianist with a desire to learn how to fiddle (I started about three years ago). I lean more towards the Cape Breton style, so my influences are Buddy MacMaster and Jerry Holland as opposed to Enya and Celtic Woman, but to each their own
I, too, was floored when I discovered that you can play “fiddle” tunes on the piano since the piano in the Cape Breton tradition is mainly an accompaniment instrument rather than as a solo instrument. It was difficult for me at first to make it sound “right”, though.... playing the tune with the right hand was easy enough, but it was the left hand accompaniment that I struggled with. It was only after I took a workshop on piano accompaniment at the Gaelic College that my playing sounded like it fit. So if this is an avenue that you would like to pursue, then I suggest you become familiar with accompaniment as well (chord progressions, walking bass lines, droning, etc).
For some inspiration, check out Cape Breton style pianist Troy MacGillivray (he’s also a wicked fiddler!). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghdr9ZUZ_LQ. His piano solo starts around 4:58.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
No, I was just saying (well, anyway, this is what I was thinking) that the sound of a grand would be wrong for what she was playing (according to my taste). I liked it the way it was. Nothing to do with anythng being too posh or something. Anyway, like you say ... water, bridge ... what was that other word? ...
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Jerone-- You want to play Irish fiddle? Good choice! Not everyone share's your taste (myself included), but that doesn't really matter. What you should pick out of these replies is that those acts you mentioned are highly produced and bear little resemblance to the "old way." A classically-trained pianist like yourself might actually find a lot of old Irish fiddle music scratchy and played with poor intonation. It's a whole different beast than classical piano, so prep yourself for that!
There have been some good links posted. I recommend looking up traditional fiddlers, preferably solo, and REALLY listen to them and try and understand the logic and tonal spectrum of the music.
Older generation fiddlers to check out might include Michael Coleman, Denis Murphy, Patrick Kelly, Tommy Potts and John Doherty. A younger generation includes Kevin Burke, Martin Hayes, Frankie Gavin, and Sean Keane. Younger still would include Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh, Oisin MacDiarmiada and Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh. They're all great musicians and worthy of a listen. There's a huge world of music, with regional and idiosyncratic styles, and lots of different tune types. It can be a lot to take in, so pace yourself!
There are plenty of Americans on this board, that won't hold you back, nor will being black. Good music has no color.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Thanks Resodan. I guess i should also emphasize AGAIN That i'm not a Classical Pianist. I'm a New Age pianist for short. But i've been exposed to pretty much all styles of music, Dubstep being my most recent discovery.
If i have to listen to MYSELF pratice this fiddle, i definetly have to get use to hearing "scratchy" and poorly intonated notes. I'm a singer also, so i'm user to all of those sounds. The thing about piano is that it is restricted in ONE way, and THAT my friends, is Tonality. I have to explain to people everyday that Violin can do something that piano can't do, and that is sing. Just because it's not on the piano, doesn't mean it won't sound good :/ I have a broad range of musical interest, and one of those is Tonal music. When you get outside of the way western music is taught. The exotic, sometimes mentally stimulating sounds. Even with piano, i'm trying to learn how to use EVERY note, not just the notes in the key signature. Music is about how to use EVERY sound, to work together, to create something that is pleasing to the ear. Maybe i like it when songs are played in a "poorly intonated" way It gives it it's uniqueness.
Thanks for helping me open up my mind though, cause i still don't know how to use all 12 notes together, but i'm getting there
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Thank you, Pianist, and good luck with your journey discovering the 12 notes of the fiddle! Perhaps when you are more adept, you will post some of your fiddle "songs" on your YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaDBDnVjfEg and that will dispel the doubtlessly unkind and unfounded suspicions that I for one confess to holding, that the real Jerone has got no idea what you're on about!
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Personally I think scratchy poorly intoned playing is something to avioid, and certainly training your ear to become used to listening to it is a fine method of achieving poorly intoned scratchy playing. If thats what you want.....
Part of the problem is that most modern music is all out of tune, litterally, so when you get playing that is not, it sounds strange. Pipering and good fiddling uses perfect intervals[ when in tune ] So my suggestion is to listen to good solo pipers and play along. David Power or Pat Mitchel in C, Robbie Hannon in B, Seamus Ennis in C# and Say Leo Rowesome in D. .
As far as fiddle recomendations I suggest Paddy Canny, Bobby Casey, and Jimmy Power as an introduction. Enjoy.
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Haha i didn't say i would play with poor intonation, i said that it wouldnt stop me from listening to a genre of music. Matter of fact, Dubstep, as i mentioned about earlier, is known for it's Terrible, Horrid use of Dissonance... *It's unpleasing, but it's attractive for a reason i'm not sure about about* But one thing i diagree with Pio, if i may say. A lot of music now is actually TOO in tune. All pop music now is song a said using a digital voice modulator called "Autotune" And since most music is electronic now, it`s all in tune. BUT i've heard some singers*R&B for example* That can sing amazingly in tune without moding out their voice. Some modern opera fascinates me too. Autotune can make someone voice sond soooo perfect, that we forget that peoople can actually sing Perfectly almost, with no mods on their voice. I`ll avoid listening to bad fiddle music, if a tune is too outof tune, then i wont listen to the recording and try to learn it by ear. thats llike taking voice lessons from a bad singer :/ Good looking oout Pio Whats frustrating is listening to how outof tune i am. Going from piano to Fiddle O.o I`m trying to analyse the length of my fingers apart, but i dont know much about Fiddle yet. I do know that it has some pretty interesting patterns Other than working on scales alongside a keyboard, any other Intonation excersises to work on?
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Here's an update. The most frustrating thing is that i can play anything i want to on piano, cause i know everything about all the notes lol. Where they are, their names, how to use them all together to sound good. But there's just one thing i'm trying to get figured out is where all of the notes are on this Violin thing lol. Stringed instruments are wierd lol. Guitar is so confusing to me because, unlike piano, you'll find the same note in several different places. I'm sure it makes it easier, for someone who knows how to work it lol. At least they're marked. I see Violin in the same way except no keys or frets. I have to count my fingers and estimate in my head if they are too close, or far apart. When i get my keyboard back, i may take some time to analyze the structure of this instrument compared to that of the piano. Positions? Ugh, time to learn some more i guess ;)
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
There is a story I'm sure I read on this forum, re a violinist who said he wanted to learn ITM, and was advised to go and hear a particular well-known and respected fiddler.
When next seen he replied angrily that he wouldn't take any lessons from someone that didn't play in tune !
One persons' tune is another persons' dissonance.
Re the same notes cropping up in different places - most people would be unlikely to move much out of first position, so where the notes lie under your fingers is where you'll find and use them.
I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hello, everyone. my name is Jerone and i wish to study Irish Fiddle. The problem is, i'm American, and i have absolutely no way of studying the music the Best Way Possible... Live, In Ireland.
The thing is, i don't want to learn how to play just to show off, or just to study something so different. But i'm a Music Lover. I've played piano for 13 years come Feb. 28. I have the classical knowledge of scales and chords and all that good stuff from years of Private lessons, singing in choir from 8th-12th grade, and my own independent studies of music.
My piano teachers did a really good job of exposing me to many of the more popular styles of music, and the closest to Irish music i got, was Enya.
Over the last, almost decade, of my young 19 year old life, i've grown a great appreciation for the Irish, Celtic, and Gaelic cultures, all because the music is ever so wonderful. And recently i've been given a violin. Irish FIddle music looks soooo terribly FUN and awesome to play, and the way the songs make me feel are inexplicable. An example, a song titled "Sweet Castle Hill" that i picked up off one of these types of websites. It's such a CUTE song. It makes me feel like a little kid again. I asked myself, "Where is "Sweet Castle Hill"... Anyway back on topic...
I'm trying to find the best way for me to learn Irish Fiddle since i can't attend sessions in Irish Pubs. I'm afraid to pick the wrong book, or study the wrong modern artist, because i want to learn the Old Way. I'm even afraid to learn the way i started a couple days ago(Learning MIDI files by ear)
I want to play the same songs, the same way the original Irish artists did. I'm American so i know the way music can be perverted, and commercialized for money and fame XP. It disgusts me that people violate music in this way. So what i'm asking is, possibly some recordings, or even just names of the older Irish Fiddlers. I don't know ANY. Too bad for me, Enya isn't a Fiddler :( Also, the different styles of Irish Fiddle. I don't know WHERE to start, so i'm starting here by asking for help. Please someone. You would be blessing me with many years of musical joy. Irish music in general is so original and rich. The music takes me to a place that i thought only existed in video games.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"The music takes me to a place that i thought only existed in video games."
Yep, that's how it makes me feel, too. I play a reel and I'm riding horseback with Link across the green hills and glens of Hyrule. May the Triforce be with you.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"Yep, that's how it makes me feel, too. I play a reel and I'm riding horseback with Link across the green hills and glens of Hyrule. May the Triforce be with you."
Ummm, i'm not a Zelda fan... I'm saying, music takes me away from this real life. The games are only imaginery, but the music... it's Real. It makes me feel things that i don't often feel... and they feel good. There's so much music in the world, and it's a tragedy that i won't get to experience all of the good music that's out there. But before i die, Irish and Celtic music, are styles that i wish to learn how to express myself with. They are Spiritual, and Intimate. Most music has no feeling, no spirit, no love... just perversion. But this is one of the few styles of music that is actually inspired and real. Help me out?
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'd love to help you out, but I seem to have lost where the exit is....
Someone will be along in a minute. Nurse!?
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm sorry, have i offended you? If so, my apologies, i'm just looking for some help. It's frustrating enough picking up a new instrument after learning one so well. Violin is my 2nd instrument and i've wanted to learn for so long. Thank God i have some good friends, and they gave me one for Christmas, year before last. I have Celtic influences on Piano... but thats one thing. This Fiddle thing is hard :(
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Nope, no offense taken. Just finding it a little hard to take you seriously. Enya, video games, midi files, and music books....all about as far removed as you can get from demonstrating a serious interest in Irish traditional music.
But okay, I'll bite.
The U.S. has an abundance of good musicians who play Irish traditional music. No matter where in the States you live, it's likely that there's a session nearby and people who can give you a good start on understanding this music.
Other than exercising your ears and covering some basic music vocabulary and theory, your piano training isn't going to help you much at all in learning this music, or in playing fiddle. Best to find a fiddler who's willing to teach you face-to-face.
And consider losing the precious notion that this music is supposed to be pretty and sweet and Celtic and Spiritual. The more firmly you think that stuff, the harder it will be for you to hear and experience the real music.
Meanwhile, give a listen to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF0b35jn-Ts
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
You might also give a listen to the recordings here: http://archives.irishfest.com/dunn-family-collection.htm
and here:
http://www.rocheviolins.com/html/traditional_irish_music_in_con.html#Leitrim
and here:
http://comhaltas.ie/ (click on The Music on the left-hand menu)
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm sorry but i'm very expressive(video games is where i discovered a lot of music outside of this Pop Trash that they play on the radio every day -.-) I first heard Enya in the 6th grade(my teacher would play her music during class, and i just happen to Love her music) And the MIDI files... I was desperate ok lol. I've only been doing this for about a week and i'm having a hard time finding where to start.
But it didn't take long to realize that listening to a stupid recorded keyboard *eeewww XP* wouldn't help me one bit. But it was the only place where i found a load of Irish Fiddle repertoire.
I do have basic music knowledge. And i am well trained at playing by ear. My teachers didn't teach me how to listen, they taught me how to read. The listening came on its own
But learning chord progressions, arpeggios, and variations outside of the normal Atonal Western music, by ear, on piano seems to me a lot harder than learning single noted melodies on the violin. It's not the notes i'm worried about, it's the style*being American kindof sucks sometimes* It's finding where in the world to start, but you've been helpful in sending me this video. This is the kindof music i'm talking about, thanks
If you wish to take the time outof your life to get to know what kindof musician i actually am, here's a link to one of my solo piano pieces...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaDBDnVjfEg
(and just because i play sweet soft music, doesn't mean that I wouldn't like to play a jig or two, and dance it out ;)
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hello Jerone. You seem to be conflating various things in your post, if not in your mind: spirituality, romanticism, history, .. er.. horseback riding... but all is not lost. There are many fine Irish musicians (that is players of Irish music) in the world, and anyway I doubt that the best place to learn music is in an Irish pub. People like yourself with access to modern media can hear more music in a decade than in the 'Old Way' during a whole lifetime. This fiddle thing is hard? How hard was learning the piano? Of course it is a hard mountain to climb; but the view from the top is, as you suspect, magnificent. Search this website for information, of which there is a great deal, such as 'the best' fiddle/ melodian/ flute players, books, cds, instruments, strings. Search the web, avoiding glitzy, smoke-whirling light-flashing production stuff, and you will begin to see the same names cropping up as well as teaching sites.
and loss of spirit. Keep away from midi files. Listen, analyse, listen, reproduce, listen, practise, listen.
You are off to a good start if you want to learn, but don't confuse wanting to learn with wanting to be able to play. Incidentally, if you really love the music, it is possible to play it on the piano, examples of which you can also find by searching the web. I welcome your enthusiasm, and rejoice in your rejection of the present day 'perversion' -- maybe a bit strong
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by gam
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"but don't confuse wanting to learn with wanting to be able to play."
I like what you said here. It took several years to learn piano, but it took Revelations from God to learn how to actually Play my soul out into the keys. And that's just it, I want to play Irish Fiddle. I want to know it so well, that if i feel like it, i can pick up my Fiddle and work out my own Reel, just like i do on piano. And learning isn't the hard part. I've learned several songs in the last couple of days. Violin is A LOT easier than piano, but it's harder in it's own way(the bow and the strings) What's hard, is that there are so many books, so many names, so many websites(most of them don't work :/) SO many people advertising saying their books are the best. And music is so subjective, the only way to find out if you will like something is to listen to it yourself. 
Now i actually have something to listen to, Now i can actually listen to every County's style and find which one i like the most 
not just a link to a piece of sheet music that i don't even know is Irish.
Thanks Gam
But thanks to Mr. Will up there, i have a lot of work to do
About the learning. The good news is, i live in Austin Tx.(moved here almost 2 years ago) This is the live music capitol of the world. Surely i can find somewhere that has Sessions, or someone that teachers Irish Fiddle. I have the knowledge to learn on my own though, the fear is not knowing if i'm learning the best.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hi
I can really empathise with the things that Painist has written. I've recently retired (hoorah!), have a lot of free time on my hands and also desire to learn how to play authentic Irish music and fulfil an ambition of a lifetime - to play an instrument that is. But there are no Irish musicians where I live and certainly no authentic teachers. I attended my first folk music festival last year, which was very enjoyable and opened my eyes to a musical culture that I didn't know existed.
I met lots of women with bodhrans and I thought that a good entry point might be to learn how to play the bodhran. I went to some workshops and actually bought a drum. I even sat in at the back of some sessions and tried to play along a bit.. Groundbreaking at my age! But since then I've been lurking on this site ever since I was told I could learn more about The Music here and discovered bodhran playing is not valued so I have lost interest in going down that path.
I think with dedication I could learn the fiddle quite quickly. I am a very quick study but like Painist I have taken the advice of this board to heart and I want to learn how to play these tunes so I can play them in an authentic manner.
My friend is learning the ukelele and is making great progress. She has learned two beautiful songs off by heart - Carrickfergus and She Moved through the Fair, which she is preparing to play at a local nursing home and I would love to be able to accompany her on the fiddle. I sincerely want to be good at this music but I don't want to learn bad habits or music that is just a poor copy of Irish music as it is played in Ireland.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by leafmple
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I think Pianist could do no better than refer to the beautifully expressed thoughts of Pilib O'Conchubhair in this earlier thread: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8643/ Unfortunately Pilib's message is not full of hope for Pianist, who relies on "Revelations from God to learn how to actually Play my soul out into the keys".I'm not sure leafmple is much help either as he/she hangs out with "lots of women with bodhrans" plus the other ukulele-playing friend. Good luck with playing the beautiful songs at the nursing home though!
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by RichardB
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ah, "Sweet Castle Hill". From Waifs and Strays. Is it a song? It's not a tune I know, and I haven't been able to find any words ... What else does anyone know about it?
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Terrible problem, being American.
Sorry
Etc
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by mcknowall
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"Yep, that's how it makes me feel, too. I play a reel and I'm riding horseback with Link across the green hills and glens of Hyrule."
Got a horse outside have you Will?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8&feature=related
NOT SUITABLE FOR WORK (or anywhere really).
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Bernie 29
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I love that song. It's suitable everywhere.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by ethical blend
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Pianist, go to the Sessions section here and find one near you. Hang around and listen to everything that happens. This is wonderful music to play, but you will soon find out that it is very different from the classical world in just about every way. Absorb the music at the session level, and then you will be ready to think about playing tunes on that fiddle.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'd recommend get at least one lesson from a fiddle player - any style really - just to give you tips on holding the fiddle and the bow. Not that there's only one way to do these things but if you start out holding the bow like a hammer (as I first did years ago) you could sow bad habits that might hold you up for years.
However, I wouldn't worry too much about learning the "authentic Irish way". It may cramp your style at the outset. You'd probably need to have started fiddling at a very young age having been brought up in a large family where the family and the grandparents and all the neighbours and their relatives have played for generations in each other houses in a culture whose musical genius and passion for dancing was noted centuries back.
Listen to as many good Irish fiddlers you can - there's no shortage of recordings available. Kevin Burke, Frankie Gavin, Sean Keane, James Kelly, Tommy Peoples, Tommy Potts .....amongst umpteen others - immerse yourself in the music and feel your way. Martin Hayes plays many beautiful tunes that are simple in structure and at often a speed to make them accessible to the new ear. I was extremely fortunate to have attended a workshop with him last year in Ireland and he recommended listening to recordings of the old ceilidh bands to capture some of the spirit of ITM, because apart from the slow airs, it's all dance music.
If you’re looking for book tutors, "The Irish Fiddle Book" by Matt Cranitch offers all you're likely to need to know with regard to phrasing, ornamentation, bowing.. the whole nine yards basically. You might find this organisation has something to offer. http://comhaltas.ie/ - they produce recordings of tunes arranged in sets widely played in Ireland. The Dave Mallinson tune books - 100 Essential session tunes, 100 enduring session tunes will give you plenty of easy to read source material, containing tunes that are known just about everywhere in the pubs around Ireland in my experience.
I’ve found that didling (which is how so many tunes were passed on) through tunes that I’m learning is a good way to get a feel for them and sense where to put the rolls, cuts and taps.
Luckily there’s several lifetimes worth of incredible music awaiting your exploration so I’d recommend you just dive in and enjoy the dance.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by debroos
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
These took three minutes to find and cull.
http://www.austincelts.org/
http://www.bdrileys.com/events/
http://texcelt.org/Festivals.html
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Piece
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I thought the ancient, authentic Irish way of learning tunes, the way they did it before modernization and all its evils had any effect on the beautiful Celtic ways of Ireland, was to huddle around a peat fire in the one room house, uttering charms to keep the fairies from stealing your sh*t and trying not to poke the cows or chickens with the fiddle bow and deciding which children you were going to pass on the venerated tradition to and which ones you were going to eat.
Wait, sorry, I'm confusing reality with Jonathan Swift essays.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Which I suppose is better than confusing reality with video games.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I take it that is American sh*t nit Irish sh*t
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by gam
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
not
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by gam
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Are you sure you're not confusing Jonathan Swift with Myles na gCopaleen Emily?
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hah. I guess that phrase is a bit of an Americanism, isn't it?
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
My post was more like the demented offspring of Jonathan Swift and James MacPherson.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Nah, it was purely An Béal Bhocht
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Teehee. Yeah, I see that. Didn't have it in mind, though, as I've not read it.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Here's Swift's 'A Modest Proposal' - http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
If you're starting fiddle from scratch, I'll re-emphasise what others have already said - get some lessons if you possibly can. But what I'd add to that (and I'll probably get shot down for this) is to get those lessons from a classical violinist. The reason being that a lot of fiddlers don't bother too much about technique. And if you pick up bad habits in the early stages, while you might still become a very competent fiddler, there will be a level that you can never get beyond without going back and sorting out those bad habits, which is much harder than getting it right from the start.
If getting lessons is completely impossible, then work from a violin tutor book - one which gives lots of advice about bow hold, hand position etc. not just pages of tunes to practice.
Don't ask other people for their 'reading lists' of tunes to learn. The tunes themselves aren't important, it's how you play them that counts. So while you're scratching away at 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star', learning the basics of the instrument, listen to every bit of Irish music you can find. Some of it you'll like, some of it you won't. Think about why you like some bits and not others, and by the time you've got the fiddle under control and doing what you want, you'll know exactly what you want to do with it.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by skreech
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
If you go to my site here -
http://www.youtube.com/user/fiddle4u
Under Learner Videos, you'll see 4 other play lists of Magic Fiddlers.. All I've met and learned something off...
Different styles, but all very Irish... Hope this helps you !
jim,,,
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
We've managed to get the Rubberbandits and Jonathan Swift into this thread. Well done, people.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Re: Classic ITM Recordings for Newbies...Your Opinion?
Posted on October 24th 2005 by Ptarmigan
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8114/comments#comment174194
Denis Murphy, Julia Clifford, Pádraig O'Keeffe, Andy McGann, Johnny O'Leary & Séamus Ennis - Music from Sliabh Luachra
http://ceolalainn.blogspot.com/2009/09/denis-murphy-music-from-sliabh-luachra.html
"Tunes For Practice" ~ Seamus Creagh
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/3225
"Fiddler's Fancy" ~ Tommy Peoples
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1099
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
In my experience with this music, the only helpful revelations come from good musicians, time spent in the woodshed, and whiskey. God is too busy trying to play like Frankie Gavin to spare time helping us mere mortals....
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Well said, Will.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Well if God take's a day off from Frankie, Here's another one you can try '' A man Frankie also learned much from '' - lol...
jim,,,
http://www.allcelticmusic.com/music/bb133eec-f86f-102a-8020-000f1f67beb1/Musical_Memories.html
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ok folks i'm back
thanks everyone for all of the helpful advice 
But i think i should re-emphasize that i am NOT a classical musician. I'm just classically trained. There's a difference.
I have fun on the piano, but i can't get up and dance with a piano :/ no i need a FIDDLE =D I'm a new fan of Mairead Nesbitt 
By the way, what do you all think of the group, "Celtic Woman" I love their "Pixie" but i don't know much else about them. Oh and Will, what's wrong with Enya?
I don't spend hours in front of one of Mozarts masterpieces, preparing to play for a thousand people to show how good of a technician i am. I'm far from that. I'm an improvisational musician. I'll say it this way, I have the freedom of a jazz musician, along with the tonal influences of new age and celtic music.
I don't have a "new" ear. matter of fact most of the classical songs i've learned has been by ear. My piano teachers realized it before i did and they struggled trying to teach me how to read without using my ear. I only ended up learning all of the essentials of music theory while gaining the ear to learn everything without a single note on a manuscript.
The thing is, everything that i've learned from my classical teachers, has helped me in learning more music faster. Cause when you add the knowledge of music theory, to an experienced ear, the results are exponential. It's great to know both.
I want to play Irish Fiddle cause it looks fun, and the songs that i play are fun
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
PS -
Or maybe more so this one - jim,,,
http://www.allcelticmusic.com/music/a3b788cc-f86d-102a-8020-000f1f67beb1/Complete_Techniques_for_IRISH_FIDDLE.html
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by FIDDLE4
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Go find people near you playing the music. They have to be there. Look at Peace's helpful post:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/26670/comments#comment564414
Go to the Sessions link on this website and look for Austin TX:
http://www.thesession.org/sessions/index.php/search?country_id=0&areaname=Texas&town=Austin&day=Any&search=Search
Email those two folks here on the session.org. Tel them you are new and want to learn, and that you'll come to their session and become a serious beginner.
Protip: DO NOT mention Enya or Celtic Women. Most musicians playing this music don't care for them.
Listen closely, make friends with the people there, try to find a mentor/tutor. Listen to your elders, wash behind your ears, and don't say too much.
Good luck!
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ha ha, sorry Piece. Peace out Piece.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Sorry, but anyone with an "experienced ear" would not have to ask, "what's wrong with Enya?"
I honestly don't know if this thread is a wind up or just youthful, exuberant naivete. But I'm not spending any more time on it.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Will Harmon
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Same here. Pixie indeed. And don't call tunes 'songs'.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by gam
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Thanks for all of the information and links everyone, i surely have enough to keep me occupied for months. And HEY! just because the music is different, doesn't mean it's bad. Enya is an amazing artist. I won't mention her at Sessions, but i am a loyal fan of hers. If it weren't for her i wouldn't be as happy with my piano music, her being one of my musical influences. But i figured since she was a Celtic artist, she would at least relate a little to Irish music, since she is from Donegal :/ Whatever...
And also, ALL Knowledge and Wisdom, does come from God. We think we learn things on our own, but it is Him that reveals.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
The "search" function is your friend. Search "Celtic Women" and you will find an archive-full of reasons why most people who hang about this website think it's shight.
Enya, Celtic Women, etc. are part of this whole New Age Celtic mysticism thing, which has a bit of a history in 18th and 19th century Romanticism, but in terms of accurately telling you anything about people who lived in certain parts of the world, a lot of it was made up in the late eighteenth century and is made up now. If the whole New Age woozy spiritualism is what you see in Irish traditional music, you'd better drop those ideas right now or if that's how you reallt want to express yourself musically, avoid most sessions.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
And HEY! just because the music is different, doesn't mean it's bad
No, but just because it's bad, that's a pretty strong indicator that it's bad.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
thanks "TheSilverSpear" And i play music for many different reasons. I do my worshiping and have my "spiritualism" with Piano. But it gets boring sometimes, and i wanna have some fun. Irish Fiddle seems to me the best way to do it.
I'll use the "Search" function and look up some of the other discussions. Thanks
The thing that really attracts me to the tunes, are the melodic progressions i hear. Some are just awesome to listen to, and if i learned anything from piano "Playing music is FAR more fun, than just listening to it" - Jerone Williams(ME)
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Avoiding proselytizing evangelicalism is probably a good idea as well. We won't hassle you with our religious beliefs (or lack thereof as the case may be) if you don't hassle us with yours.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Jon Kiparsky lol i like what you said. And this is true. But music is "subjective" like most Art, not everyone is going to like everything. And not everyone is going to hate everything. But in your opinion, what makes a bad song?
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
What makes a bad song? Enya, for one thing. Many of them, in fact.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'You'd get this gift from hardship and hard work and getting wet and cold weather. And lonesome lives. You'd learn the sad way, people living alone and maybe your relations to die. All that comes from that source ... 'It comes down out of the heavens in showers'. The gift of music.'
Nothing to do with himself.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I'm not hear to argue with people, i just want to learn Irish Fiddle. I've gotten some good help, so unless you're providing me with a link to where i can find the stories that associate with the tunes, a name of a real Irish Fiddler that has enough content online that i can study, or some notes on what makes Irish Fiddle so distinctive*which i've already learned..."Cause it's Irish", more the scales and progressions used* then you can get back on with your lives.
For everyone that is seriously here to help me, Thanks.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"deciding which children you were going to pass on the venerated tradition to and which ones you were going to eat"
Just reviewing some of this thread. Emily, you should be aware that in the period we're talking about almost all farmers lived more or less entirely on whatever would bring them the least income if sold*. So it's very unlikely that they'd eat the children, except perhaps for a very special feast day (or, for the sake of irony, at a christening). Instead, they'd sell the child to the English and continue to live on potatoes.
(*See Braudel, volume 1 of Civilzation and Capitalism)
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'You'd get this gift from hardship and hard work and getting wet and cold weather. And lonesome lives. You'd learn the sad way, people living alone and maybe your relations to die.'
Also for anyone that doesn't know, i'm Black. I'm not rich. I've had to walk in the rain. And i feel terribly lonely at times cause where i'm from people don't seem to have the same love and passion for music. They say i talk different, and act different. It's not my fault, music did it to me. And i do know what it feels like to live alone. I've had relationships deteriorate.
"The Irish were pushed from their homeland, The African were drug from theirs" So my culture and your culture, do relate very well to each other. You can stop with your sub-conscious stereotypes.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I rest my case about the dangers that Celtic Woman poses to the future of trad.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by ian stock
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Sub-conscious stereotypes?
That was a quote, from Micho Russell. Taken from John Doorty's play 'Out of the heavens in showers'.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
so unless you're providing me with a link to where i can find the stories that associate with the tunes, a name of a real Irish Fiddler that has enough content online that i can study, or some notes on what makes Irish Fiddle so distinctive*which i've already learned..."Cause it's Irish", more the scales and progressions used* then you can get back on with your lives.
The place to learn the tunes, as I think several have said, is at a session. The way to do that is to go and to listen. A teacher is good - if you give some indication of what part of the world you're in, someone might be able to point you to someone who can help you.
What makes Irish fiddle so distinctive is the constellation of peculiarities shared among the set including Kevin Burke, Tommy Peoples, Liz Carroll, Frankie Gavin, et al - a set of "family resemblances", not a checklist of characteristics, and best learned by induction. Listen to stuff you like, and listen to it a lot, and get it into your head.
As for Enya, Celtic Women, and similar schlock - if you like it, listen to it, learn it, play it. I don't like it, but that doesn't mean anything except that if you play synthesizers around me for long enough I start getting twitchy.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
no, i wasn't talking about that. one of these posters sent me a link to a short letter telling me how i should give up and should never learn Irish music cause i'm not Irish. That is disheartening. Either they think i'm such rich kid with a British background, wanting to learn Fiddle to impress all of his friends at the polo club. It seems that they don't even consider that i have an appreciation for music, and want to learn it cause i want to feel it, play it, experience it. If people came to me asking how they could play ,my music, because they were fascinated with it and wanted to learn it for themselves. I would be happy to teach them. And i wouldn't discourage them by saying "You can't play my music cause you haven't lived my life." no, cause then noone could carry on this beautiful music that i have learned how to play on my piano, aka, "A harp laid down"
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
The link was meant to be tongue-n-cheek, I think. If you want a good read, check out the ensuing thread. That guy was basically being a douchebag and you'll find the vast majority of people who responded to his post calling him out on that.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I just skimmed the thread in question. The OP was most likely a session.org regular who was posing as a bit of a douchebag in order to wind people up.
See, you can't take anything you read on this site too seriously. Amongst the serious and genuine answers, people will be having a bit of a laugh. A lot of posters here, in the nicest way possible and this includes me not infrequently, are quite frankly full of sh*t.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"A lot of posters here, in the nicest way possible and this includes me not infrequently, are quite frankly full of sh*t."
After i learn more about the Fiddle(thank God for prior Knowledge! 
I can pick up a Tune Book, and a CD with the son... tunes i mean, and learn some good 
Thanks "TheSilverSpear" for getting that cleared up. I read the replies to his post. It's nice to know that not everyone is like that. C/S Like i mentioned earlier, i'm from Austin Tx. so it shouldnt be terribly difficult to find a session somewhere. But i'd still rather learn Irish Fiddle from someone that's Irish, than someone that's American. My musical studies have proven that we can't help but be influenced by what we hear. I will follow the advice of taking one lesson to make sure i have good posture, so i don't develop arthritis, or carpel-tunnel syndrome later down the road. Just like i don't play piano slouched with my wrists bent in lol. But after that first lesson, i'll learn everything else on my own. Like i said earlier, i've been given a wealth of information here, and i have a lot to study now
Thanks EVERYONE, you've all been HELPFUL. Keep discussing if you like, i'll check this thread everyday for new information.
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"But i'd still rather learn Irish Fiddle from someone that's Irish, than someone that's American."
Watch out for those sub-conscious stereotypes, dude.
You wouldn't want to learn fiddle from her? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtH4aGb04Og&feature=related
Or him? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkZRztjdB6w
Or him? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1r9L9LsmM
# Posted on February 3rd 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ah, I remember those halcyon days of youth, the enthusiasms, the mad rush of hormones and endorphins, the garrulousness, the naivete, the lack of experience with which to temper ones behaviour.
You do well to remind us of this, young pianist. Sometimes, in our age and experience, we forget those heady days of yore.
You've been given some good advice here, as well as a few people extracting the urine ( this website is famed for it ).
I would just add that, if you learn a little, then start going off on your own doing your own thing, then you won't be doing whatever it was that inspired you in the first place, and people just won't want to play with you, because you won't be doing the thing that they like doing. People are strange like that.
If, on the other hand, you can apply yourself to join in with everybody else, then you will be welcomed to this strange world of wig-glue and well-swabed flutes, and other such things.
Good luck !
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I see nothing wrong with wanting to learn Irish music from
the Irish people instead of the Chicago and New York people
if you have the option. I'm sure Randal Bays has spent a lot
of time playing and learning over there
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Hup
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Pianist.. Eithne Ní Bhraonain(Enya) is from Gweedore in Donegal . She is steeped in the world of traditional gaelic singing and is a beautiful singer. Keep enjoying her music. She is a great woman.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by big_tab
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Fair point, Hup. I can't stand the bloody Yanks, either. Wouldn't want to learn tunes from them.
Oh, wait....
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
And while we're on the subject of cultural stereotypes, I let this one slide when I first read it:
'Either they think i'm such rich kid with a British background, wanting to learn Fiddle to impress all of his friends at the polo club...."
So we apparently dislike the British and the Americans. Is there anyone else who can't play Irish music or who we just generally despise to add to the list? Anyone.....? Bueller....? Anyone....?
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Pianist, Best of luck to you, as you seem like a nice, well meaning person who loves music. I doubt you intended to, but you punched a lot of buttons with your remarks on this thread. The folks who habituate this website are generally players who like acoustic roots music, stripped of all gimmicks, and when they play at sessions, many don't even consider what they are doing a musical performance. Thus, the Broadway-type production values of Celtic Woman, and the layered, electronically lush sounds of Enya, are the antithesis of what they love the most.
Like many here, I will suggest getting a teacher, as teaching yourself fiddle is a task that often goes awry.
Don't worry about nationality or heritage, one of the best Irish fiddlers I know comes from a Filipino background, and there are many folks from all around the world that play this music very well, and get great joy from it. Get some CD's, find some concerts, listen to sessions, and get to know this music. I can see why you are drawn to it, and as you listen, you will begin to understand some of the things folks are saying to you above.
Good luck, and enjoy the journey!
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"If people came to me asking how they could play ,my music, because they were fascinated with it and wanted to learn it for themselves. I would be happy to teach them."
Fair play, what do you think of the links to the music clips thus far, Pianist? Are they tunes you'd want to play & styles of playing you wish to learn?
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"I doubt you intended to, but you punched a lot of buttons with your remarks on this thread."
Yea, i checked on one of my ealier, i guess you could say, "racist" remarks. Yeah sorry about that. It seems that me being human, it's easy to see others faults better than my own. I didn't mean to offend anyone, sorry. I got a little wound up.
And also, i'm still trying to figure out how this website works. I click a tune link and it sends me to another page with another list. SO i click something from that list, and it send me to another list... Maybe i should try again?
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Which tunes?
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
When you get tired of scraping away at the fiddle you could try to do this with your piano.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0dGQWH7fyU.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by shanty
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
@shanty Thanks for the link! NOW I HAVE SOMETHING I CAN ACTUALLY PLAY ON PIANO!
Those people should be ASHAMED of themselves, making that poor woman play on a crappy keyboard! They should've given her a Grand to play on. My GOODNESS! It would've been so much cooler!
I may have to lay down the fiddle for a couple days just to try out these!
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Listen to this too for more inspiration. With your keyboarding
coordination and years ahead of you, you could be a killer
concertina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEE8JBBcpUw
... or accordion player:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNdxrffoLws
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Hup
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
wow it fascinates me the things people can learn, that chick was BEASTING the... *tries to say* "Concertina"? that was pretty amazing. I'm searching through this website but there's SOOOOOOOOO MUCH MUUUUUUSIC! UGH! Hours and hours of searching looking for that one treasure that's only a minute and a half long. After i learn it, i can play it for the rest of my life. The searching was worth it.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
"Those people should be ASHAMED of themselves, making that poor woman play on a crappy keyboard! They should've given her a Grand to play on. My GOODNESS! It would've been so much cooler!"
I don't think you've quite got it, Pianist. I don't know about other people, but I liked that clip just the way it was. She doesn't need a grand piano, and I for one would far rather a neat little keyboard like that for this kind of music.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Jerome - I heartily agree with you (as expressed in your email to me) that in the link I posted, Pilib is unkind to suggest that it's "wrong for a brother to discover this Treasure of an Art Form". Having thrilled to the beautiful playing on your YouTube channel, and found the description of your educational struggles on the Texas Baptist Home's website, I want to convey heartfelt greetings and encouragement for your journey in life. It is obvious from your voluble correspondence here that you have come a long way from the Jerone described there as having "always been a quiet child". However, I am alarmed that your musical progress may be distracted and set off-course by your new-found interest. It says that the fees alone at your study institution are $80,000, and I fear that the charitable donations might dry up if you spend all your time posting on this site and playing jigs and reels. No, stick to your original dream. Irish traditional music on a twelve foot grand piano would only be a dangerous byway on your path in life.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by RichardB
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Sorry...correction: "Jerone". Must type more carefully.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by RichardB
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Ben, it is a reverse snobism of the most ridiculous sort to say that it's perfectly fine for a piano player playing Irish music on a tiny sounding cheap electronic keyboard. I don't think it is, it sounds cheap and dead.
Does she need a Steinway grand, well, I don't think that either but to think it's fine for a piano player to sound like a living midi file, that's rubbish.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
And it is quite possible that it didn't sound like that in the flesh. It is Youtube, after all.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by gam
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Aye, a nice wee upright would have done the job beautifully. There are some quite nice electronic pianos out there these days but I don't think even the best of them ever sound quite the same. The harmonics just aren't right.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Red Menace
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
It's not "reverse snobism". I just liked it the way it was. a personal reaction, that's all. And i honestly think a grand piano would be OTT, as well as being inappropriate for the music.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'I don't think you've quite got it' is what you said.
I think I got it and I thought it sounded dead and tinny.
I don't know about a grand piano although I have seen Micháel O Súillebheánn, Padraig O Reilly and Geraldine Cotter (there may have been another pianist but I remember those three) do a multi piano job on a flock of grands.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Hey pianist--I find your enthusiasm and honesty refreshing, THANK YOU.
I think you've gotten a lot of good advice from the people here and If you've started in this musical journey with Celtic Women you are just scratching the surface. You're in for a great musical journey. When you play this music don't think of riding horseback over green hills--try thinking of sweaty 19th century American dance halls or dive bars in eastern cities where African Americans mingled with Irish immigrants , had dance competitions, created tap, played jigs and reels on pianos, fiddles, banjos, tambourines and created new out of old. Couple it all along with roots blues and the beginings of ragtime (a little later) and it paints quite a picture of PEOPLE. People that I can relate to anyway, as opposed to video games or fantasy.
Just a bit of a different perspective for ya...
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by shanty
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I agree with the Prof. Those little electronic pianos are the equivalent of playing fiddle on a 40 euro chinese fiddle. Why not aspire to the best sounding piano the way a concertina player will eventually need a Jeffries.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by big_tab
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
It's might be a wee bit easier to fit a Jeffries concertina into a session than a grand piano.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Do you really think so ? Some of those Bb Jeffries are big...
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by big_tab
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I agree with the prof too. I have nothing against electronic pianos, but they MUST have a dynamic keyboard. This music is totally reliant on dynamics for its heartbeat and life, and with a non-dynamic piano you cease to be a musician, and become just a human midi sequencer.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by skreech
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Will I do the one now about the ease of standing a pint on top of the piano versus other instruments..
Nah, I'll get my coat.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
All said and done, pianist should probably look a Micheál O Súilleabheán's music. Pieces like 'Woodbrook' would probably suit well.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
In fairness, Prof, you could probably rig up a cup holder, like they have in cars, to attach to the drones.
Bring that and your corner to the session and it doesn't matter how far from the table or the wall you sit.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by DrSilverSpear
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Fair enough Peter. I was a bit harsh. You're saying I was a bit harsh and being a bit harsh in return. I can live with that.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Bottom line (on my bit, anyway) you said I was a "reverse snob". I'm not. Honest. Just often mistaken, is all.
Meanwhile, cup holders attached to instruments ... hmmm ... whole new meaning to "in one's cups" ...
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Well, Ben to me it sounded like you were saying a grand piano would be altogether to grand for this type of music and that a small cheap keyboard like the one in the clip was quite sufficient for Irish music. But maybe you were just talking about the practicalities of size, I don't know. Water under the bridge though, let's leave it there.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
That probably should have been 'cheap sounding'
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
About the Grand piano thing. Im saying, she wasn't playing in a session, it was a solo. So they could've let her play on a Grand. Surely she would've enjoyed it a lot more on a beautifully made acoustic instrument.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
It was not a situation where 'they' had anything to decide with regards to what she played on. Those clips are filmed at Fleadhanna and people turn up bringing their own instruments. Comhaltas buying a Steinway to facilitate the keyboarders, that'll be the day.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'They' probably though 'that's a grand piano' when she arrived with it anyway.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Loved the clip of Catriona on the piano, Shanty. Great stuff!
Pianist – I’m also a classically trained pianist with a desire to learn how to fiddle (I started about three years ago). I lean more towards the Cape Breton style, so my influences are Buddy MacMaster and Jerry Holland as opposed to Enya and Celtic Woman, but to each their own
I, too, was floored when I discovered that you can play “fiddle” tunes on the piano since the piano in the Cape Breton tradition is mainly an accompaniment instrument rather than as a solo instrument. It was difficult for me at first to make it sound “right”, though.... playing the tune with the right hand was easy enough, but it was the left hand accompaniment that I struggled with. It was only after I took a workshop on piano accompaniment at the Gaelic College that my playing sounded like it fit. So if this is an avenue that you would like to pursue, then I suggest you become familiar with accompaniment as well (chord progressions, walking bass lines, droning, etc).
For some inspiration, check out Cape Breton style pianist Troy MacGillivray (he’s also a wicked fiddler!). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghdr9ZUZ_LQ. His piano solo starts around 4:58.
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by jsmith
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
No, I was just saying (well, anyway, this is what I was thinking) that the sound of a grand would be wrong for what she was playing (according to my taste). I liked it the way it was. Nothing to do with anythng being too posh or something. Anyway, like you say ... water, bridge ... what was that other word? ...
# Posted on February 4th 2011 by ethical blend
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Find the old Arcady album, Many Happy Returns, for some great piano work on some classic session tunes.
# Posted on February 5th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
GO STEELERS!!! YES! 100!!!
# Posted on February 5th 2011 by shanty
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
You might also want to check out Charlie Lennon - he was both a fiddler and a piano player in the Irish tradition....you might like his stuff.
# Posted on February 5th 2011 by thejigisup
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Jerone, I thought you might like this clip;
"Tico Tico"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU7tt8BSe-c
Steve Cooney, Dermot Byrne, Carl Hession, Frankie Gavin
# Posted on February 5th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
'You might also want to check out Charlie Lennon - he was both a fiddler and a piano player in the Irish tradition...'
Eh? Charlie Lennon's still with us!
# Posted on February 5th 2011 by MacCruiskeen
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Jerone-- You want to play Irish fiddle? Good choice!
Not everyone share's your taste (myself included), but that doesn't really matter. What you should pick out of these replies is that those acts you mentioned are highly produced and bear little resemblance to the "old way." A classically-trained pianist like yourself might actually find a lot of old Irish fiddle music scratchy and played with poor intonation. It's a whole different beast than classical piano, so prep yourself for that!
There have been some good links posted. I recommend looking up traditional fiddlers, preferably solo, and REALLY listen to them and try and understand the logic and tonal spectrum of the music.
Older generation fiddlers to check out might include Michael Coleman, Denis Murphy, Patrick Kelly, Tommy Potts and John Doherty. A younger generation includes Kevin Burke, Martin Hayes, Frankie Gavin, and Sean Keane. Younger still would include Mairead Ni Mhaonaigh, Oisin MacDiarmiada and Caoimhín Ó Raghallaigh. They're all great musicians and worthy of a listen. There's a huge world of music, with regional and idiosyncratic styles, and lots of different tune types. It can be a lot to take in, so pace yourself!
There are plenty of Americans on this board, that won't hold you back, nor will being black. Good music has no color.
# Posted on February 6th 2011 by Resodan
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Also, @Jon Kiparsky, Braudel's a favorite historian of mine! Utterly prolific and impressive guy.
# Posted on February 6th 2011 by Resodan
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Spend a week at Augusta in July, or Irish Arts in the Catskills. Sometimes you can find a class in "fiddling from scratch."
# Posted on February 6th 2011 by shaskeen
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Thanks Resodan. I guess i should also emphasize AGAIN
That i'm not a Classical Pianist. I'm a New Age pianist for short. But i've been exposed to pretty much all styles of music, Dubstep being my most recent discovery.
It gives it it's uniqueness.
If i have to listen to MYSELF pratice this fiddle, i definetly have to get use to hearing "scratchy" and poorly intonated notes. I'm a singer also, so i'm user to all of those sounds. The thing about piano is that it is restricted in ONE way, and THAT my friends, is Tonality. I have to explain to people everyday that Violin can do something that piano can't do, and that is sing. Just because it's not on the piano, doesn't mean it won't sound good :/ I have a broad range of musical interest, and one of those is Tonal music. When you get outside of the way western music is taught. The exotic, sometimes mentally stimulating sounds. Even with piano, i'm trying to learn how to use EVERY note, not just the notes in the key signature. Music is about how to use EVERY sound, to work together, to create something that is pleasing to the ear. Maybe i like it when songs are played in a "poorly intonated" way
Thanks for helping me open up my mind though, cause i still don't know how to use all 12 notes together, but i'm getting there
# Posted on February 7th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Thank you, Pianist, and good luck with your journey discovering the 12 notes of the fiddle! Perhaps when you are more adept, you will post some of your fiddle "songs" on your YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaDBDnVjfEg and that will dispel the doubtlessly unkind and unfounded suspicions that I for one confess to holding, that the real Jerone has got no idea what you're on about!
# Posted on February 7th 2011 by RichardB
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Personally I think scratchy poorly intoned playing is something to avioid, and certainly training your ear to become used to listening to it is a fine method of achieving poorly intoned scratchy playing. If thats what you want.....
] So my suggestion is to listen to good solo pipers and play along. David Power or Pat Mitchel in C, Robbie Hannon in B, Seamus Ennis in C# and Say Leo Rowesome in D. .
Part of the problem is that most modern music is all out of tune, litterally, so when you get playing that is not, it sounds strange. Pipering and good fiddling uses perfect intervals[ when in tune
As far as fiddle recomendations I suggest Paddy Canny, Bobby Casey, and Jimmy Power as an introduction. Enjoy.
# Posted on February 7th 2011 by piobagusfidil
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Haha i didn't say i would play with poor intonation, i said that it wouldnt stop me from listening to a genre of music. Matter of fact, Dubstep, as i mentioned about earlier, is known for it's Terrible, Horrid use of Dissonance... *It's unpleasing, but it's attractive for a reason i'm not sure about about* But one thing i diagree with Pio, if i may say. A lot of music now is actually TOO in tune. All pop music now is song a said using a digital voice modulator called "Autotune" And since most music is electronic now, it`s all in tune. BUT i've heard some singers*R&B for example* That can sing amazingly in tune without moding out their voice. Some modern opera fascinates me too. Autotune can make someone voice sond soooo perfect, that we forget that peoople can actually sing Perfectly almost, with no mods on their voice. I`ll avoid listening to bad fiddle music, if a tune is too outof tune, then i wont listen to the recording and try to learn it by ear. thats llike taking voice lessons from a bad singer :/ Good looking oout Pio
Whats frustrating is listening to how outof tune i am. Going from piano to Fiddle O.o I`m trying to analyse the length of my fingers apart, but i dont know much about Fiddle yet. I do know that it has some pretty interesting patterns 
Other than working on scales alongside a keyboard, any other Intonation excersises to work on?
# Posted on February 7th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Here you go, Pianist: some Dubstep fiddle to play along with. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mWUEjHM5c&feature=feedf Keep us up to date with your musical explorations. The Enya Dubstep remix perhaps??
# Posted on February 8th 2011 by RichardB
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
Here's an update. The most frustrating thing is that i can play anything i want to on piano, cause i know everything about all the notes lol. Where they are, their names, how to use them all together to sound good. But there's just one thing i'm trying to get figured out is where all of the notes are on this Violin thing lol. Stringed instruments are wierd lol. Guitar is so confusing to me because, unlike piano, you'll find the same note in several different places. I'm sure it makes it easier, for someone who knows how to work it lol. At least they're marked. I see Violin in the same way except no keys or frets. I have to count my fingers and estimate in my head if they are too close, or far apart. When i get my keyboard back, i may take some time to analyze the structure of this instrument compared to that of the piano. Positions? Ugh, time to learn some more i guess ;)
# Posted on February 8th 2011 by fiddlelearner
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
It takes YEARS my friend! Be patient and work hard!
# Posted on February 8th 2011 by Resodan
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
There is a story I'm sure I read on this forum, re a violinist who said he wanted to learn ITM, and was advised to go and hear a particular well-known and respected fiddler.
When next seen he replied angrily that he wouldn't take any lessons from someone that didn't play in tune !
One persons' tune is another persons' dissonance.
Re the same notes cropping up in different places - most people would be unlikely to move much out of first position, so where the notes lie under your fingers is where you'll find and use them.
# Posted on February 9th 2011 by Guernsey Pete
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
I get it now......
# Posted on May 4th 2011 by Wyogal
Re: I'm an American Pianist studying Irish Fiddle... Help please?
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# Posted on May 13th 2011 by Earl Cameron