Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Ive played the whistle as long as i can remember, but ive only just started to really get into playing at sessions and stuff. Because of this Im also getting into playing faster tunes, sometimes ridiculously fast! its on these tunes that i find it hard to fit in breaths, but because ive never noticed other whistle players having the same problem i cant help thinking theres a knack to it! is there something ive missed ?
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Listen to great whistle players like Mary Bergin, Brian Finnegan, or Joannie Madden. Notice which notes they drop to breathe, how long their breaths are, and how they vary them. Breathing in appropriate places is to winds as bowing is to fiddle. It is how we phrase, break up the rhythm, make a tune our own.
Practice slowly, fitting an appropriate-sounding breath into the tune wherever you run out of breath, no matter where it is in the tune. Once you learn how to make breaths work slowly, it will become second nature and you can breathe easily going fast.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
If you are playing relatively slowly you have plenty of time to take a breath by leaving out a note. When you play quickly, the gap isn't big enough to fill your lungs, and you soon run out of air. You will either have to breathe more often, or pull in more air with each breath. As ElaineT implies, the need to actually plan, or at least be very aware of, your breathing, will make itself apparent until you get used to the new speeds.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
I havn't found that to be true. I've found that there is a directly linked proporportion that exists between the speed you play and the amount of time you have to breath. When you play faster there is a shorter amount of time to breath, but that is perfectly baslanced by the fact that the places to breath come quicker. When you play slower, you can fill your lungs better, but you need to because the next available breath is a long way off.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
The most important thing is knowing your tune well, so you have a strong sense of its rhythm and what it is about it that makes it that tune rather than any other. You're unlikely to be able to play every note on a fast tune without shortening or dropping notes; if you do this right your dropping notes become part of your performance rather than something you do just to get more air.
Also, you must learn to tongue effectively and control your air column so that stopping for breath is sounds clean and deliberate, rather than a desperate gasp. Don't be afraid to make notes staccato if that's what makes the tune work. You're not a piper.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
This is true, but unless you know that the next breath is coming soon, the desire to fill your lungs can come to the fore. Once you get the hang of taking smaller breaths closer together, you don't mind not taking a deep breath.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
You don't need a deep breath - it is better not to. Small
quick breaths where they fit into the structure of the tune.
If you take too much air in, then you have to get rid of excess
stale air before you can get more in. Whistle uses very little.
Also you don't need to try for world records without breathing; there
are plenty of logical spots to breath in any tune.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
I find what llig says, but with a temptation to take fewer biggish breaths which usually sounds bad. One tip I picked up somewhere (here I think) that is similar to ElaineT's last paragraph is to work through the tune finding at least one place to breath in each measure. Many of them won't sound too good but I found it improved my ability to adjust to other peoples phrasing 'on the fly'. Dropping middle notes in jig 'triplets' was the easiest to start with. (from a beginner so please tell me that I am wrong if appropriate)
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Think of breathing as a form of punctuation in a tune, a means of phrasing. That means leaving out notes at planned strategic places. When you begin learning a new tune, one of the first questions to ask is where to breath and learn the tune that way. You can never play all the notes that the fiddlers do. If you listen to good flute players, you'll often hear distinct phrasing created by the breathing spaces.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
One of the things I should have said is that different whistles take different amounts of puff, and different speeds require different breathing. Fine, you can figure out places to breathe, but these are not going to be the same if you change to a whistle that needs a different amount of air.
You're also stuffed if you play with someone who does that particular tune faster or slower than you're used to. Far better to learn the skill of finding places to breathe as you go along. It's a skill I'm still nowhere near perfect at!
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Like folks say above, different paces of the same tune leave different durations of the spaces you breath in, and you may find yourself wanting to take that breath in different places. So don't get too locked into breathing a particular way at a particular time.
I disagree with the advice to take breaths at the end of phrases, in this music, it actually often makes more sense to pause to breath in the middle of a phrase. Remember, this is ensemble playing, and you are not alone, so don't be afraid to take enough breath along the way, your session mates will help fill the gap.
And don't get stressed about things, worrying about it can tighten you up, and make you feel short of breath, and you can make it more difficult for yourself. Relax, take enough breath to play comfortably, and enjoy yourself. This is one of those things that you will look back on in a few months and wonder why you were having issues with it.
Have fun!
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Part of the issue is learning to get a proper breath. You can get an amazing amount of air in a very short time if you know how to do it. Essentially the trick is to relax the mouth and throat and inhale very quickly. Imagine a fist coming suddenly at your face and the kind of shock it would be if the fist stopped just short of your face (oh boy are folks going to have fun with that one). Your inhale will be a sort of gasp, but without the tense throat the makes a real gasp. You can also imagine dropping your diaphragm down suddenly (yeah I know the diaphragm doesn't really do the work, but the concept works)
Probably a bad description, but the best I can do. Couple that concept with learning which notes to leave out and where to breath and life will soon get better.
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Thanks, these are all really helpful! ive got some techniques i use for controlling my breathing while singing, most of which are the same (or very similar) as the ones suggested here... I guess i never thought to apply them to my whistle playing!
Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Ive played the whistle as long as i can remember, but ive only just started to really get into playing at sessions and stuff. Because of this Im also getting into playing faster tunes, sometimes ridiculously fast! its on these tunes that i find it hard to fit in breaths, but because ive never noticed other whistle players having the same problem i cant help thinking theres a knack to it! is there something ive missed ?
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by KatKat
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
breathing?
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by zippydw
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Fintan Vallely ~ "Timber: The Flute Tutor
pg. 32 Playing And Breathing
http://books.google.com/books?id=oW6kw1lbCNAC&printsec=frontcover&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false
Grey Larsen ~ "The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle"
Chapter 21 - Musical Breathing
http://www.greylarsen.com/store/excerpts_essguide.php
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by Ben Steen
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Nice links Ben.
CrollyCollie, you may find Father Ryan Duns youtube channel very handy - whistle lessons http://www.youtube.com/user/RyanDunsSJ
Don't bother with circular breathing, it's useless for decent whistle playing, which should be virtually effortless.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by bogman
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Listen to great whistle players like Mary Bergin, Brian Finnegan, or Joannie Madden. Notice which notes they drop to breathe, how long their breaths are, and how they vary them. Breathing in appropriate places is to winds as bowing is to fiddle. It is how we phrase, break up the rhythm, make a tune our own.
Practice slowly, fitting an appropriate-sounding breath into the tune wherever you run out of breath, no matter where it is in the tune. Once you learn how to make breaths work slowly, it will become second nature and you can breathe easily going fast.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by ElaineT
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
If you are playing relatively slowly you have plenty of time to take a breath by leaving out a note. When you play quickly, the gap isn't big enough to fill your lungs, and you soon run out of air. You will either have to breathe more often, or pull in more air with each breath. As ElaineT implies, the need to actually plan, or at least be very aware of, your breathing, will make itself apparent until you get used to the new speeds.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by gam
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
I havn't found that to be true. I've found that there is a directly linked proporportion that exists between the speed you play and the amount of time you have to breath. When you play faster there is a shorter amount of time to breath, but that is perfectly baslanced by the fact that the places to breath come quicker. When you play slower, you can fill your lungs better, but you need to because the next available breath is a long way off.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by ...
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
The most important thing is knowing your tune well, so you have a strong sense of its rhythm and what it is about it that makes it that tune rather than any other. You're unlikely to be able to play every note on a fast tune without shortening or dropping notes; if you do this right your dropping notes become part of your performance rather than something you do just to get more air.
Also, you must learn to tongue effectively and control your air column so that stopping for breath is sounds clean and deliberate, rather than a desperate gasp. Don't be afraid to make notes staccato if that's what makes the tune work. You're not a piper.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by Red Menace
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
This is true, but unless you know that the next breath is coming soon, the desire to fill your lungs can come to the fore. Once you get the hang of taking smaller breaths closer together, you don't mind not taking a deep breath.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by gam
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
X-post. Sorry Red.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by gam
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
You don't need a deep breath - it is better not to. Small
quick breaths where they fit into the structure of the tune.
If you take too much air in, then you have to get rid of excess
stale air before you can get more in. Whistle uses very little.
Also you don't need to try for world records without breathing; there
are plenty of logical spots to breath in any tune.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by Hup
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
I find what llig says, but with a temptation to take fewer biggish breaths which usually sounds bad. One tip I picked up somewhere (here I think) that is similar to ElaineT's last paragraph is to work through the tune finding at least one place to breath in each measure. Many of them won't sound too good but I found it improved my ability to adjust to other peoples phrasing 'on the fly'. Dropping middle notes in jig 'triplets' was the easiest to start with. (from a beginner so please tell me that I am wrong if appropriate)
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by David50
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWpv7w5kNk4
A fine example of circular breathing on the whistle.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by Joseph Tailyour
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWpv7w5kNk4
Absolutely ace playing, can anyone on here play as well as that, I doubt it.
# Posted on January 5th 2011 by Joseph Tailyour
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
That is just a party trick. That tune is far better with punctuation and he is a better player than in that clip.
# Posted on January 6th 2011 by bogman
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Think of breathing as a form of punctuation in a tune, a means of phrasing. That means leaving out notes at planned strategic places. When you begin learning a new tune, one of the first questions to ask is where to breath and learn the tune that way. You can never play all the notes that the fiddlers do. If you listen to good flute players, you'll often hear distinct phrasing created by the breathing spaces.
# Posted on January 6th 2011 by steve98070
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
One of the things I should have said is that different whistles take different amounts of puff, and different speeds require different breathing. Fine, you can figure out places to breathe, but these are not going to be the same if you change to a whistle that needs a different amount of air.
You're also stuffed if you play with someone who does that particular tune faster or slower than you're used to. Far better to learn the skill of finding places to breathe as you go along. It's a skill I'm still nowhere near perfect at!
# Posted on January 6th 2011 by Red Menace
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Like folks say above, different paces of the same tune leave different durations of the spaces you breath in, and you may find yourself wanting to take that breath in different places. So don't get too locked into breathing a particular way at a particular time.
I disagree with the advice to take breaths at the end of phrases, in this music, it actually often makes more sense to pause to breath in the middle of a phrase. Remember, this is ensemble playing, and you are not alone, so don't be afraid to take enough breath along the way, your session mates will help fill the gap.
And don't get stressed about things, worrying about it can tighten you up, and make you feel short of breath, and you can make it more difficult for yourself. Relax, take enough breath to play comfortably, and enjoy yourself. This is one of those things that you will look back on in a few months and wonder why you were having issues with it.
Have fun!
# Posted on January 6th 2011 by AlBrown
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Part of the issue is learning to get a proper breath. You can get an amazing amount of air in a very short time if you know how to do it. Essentially the trick is to relax the mouth and throat and inhale very quickly. Imagine a fist coming suddenly at your face and the kind of shock it would be if the fist stopped just short of your face (oh boy are folks going to have fun with that one). Your inhale will be a sort of gasp, but without the tense throat the makes a real gasp. You can also imagine dropping your diaphragm down suddenly (yeah I know the diaphragm doesn't really do the work, but the concept works)
Probably a bad description, but the best I can do. Couple that concept with learning which notes to leave out and where to breath and life will soon get better.
# Posted on January 6th 2011 by cboody
Re: Breathing while playing fast tunes on the whistle..?
Thanks, these are all really helpful! ive got some techniques i use for controlling my breathing while singing, most of which are the same (or very similar) as the ones suggested here... I guess i never thought to apply them to my whistle playing!
# Posted on January 6th 2011 by KatKat