I got a new ozark bouzouki for christmas and tried to tune it to GDAD,however when i got it tuned the strings played open sounded in perfect tune then i tried a chord and on putting my finger on the fret of the lowest d string and every other fret belonging to that string it sounded out of complete tune.Is there somthing im doing wrong maybe the wrong gauge of strings or is the bouzouki a bad make?????
My guess would be that the bridge placement is off. Measure from the nut (or zero fret if there is one) to the 12th fret. Whatever that is, place the bridge exactly the same distance from the 12th fret. That's just the starting point, you'll probably have to fudge the bridge a bit to get it really on but that's where you want to begin.
Sound the harmonic at the twelfth fret, followed by the fretted note. They should be the same. If it goes higher, move the bridge away a little or vice versa.
The easiest way to diagnose intonation problems is by comparing the 12th fret harmonic with the fretted string at the 12th fret.
If you're not familiar with playing a harmonic note, you touch the string lightly (don't fret it) directly over the 12th fret, pluck the string with your other hand, and then immediately remove your finger. This will make the string vibrate at the same frequency as if you had fretted it at the 12th fret.
If you compare the two tones on each set of strings, you can tell if your bridge is properly placed. If the fretted note is sharper than the harmonic, then the bridge needs to be moved back toward the tailpiece. If it is flat, it needs to be moved toward the sound hole.
As Steve mentioned, the bridge will be placed approximately twice the distance of the 12th fret, but it will always be a bit further away, because the act of bending the string down to touch the frets stretches the string a bit, and makes it sharp. You compensate for that by moving the bridge further away.
It helps to have strings that are well balanced, too. If you change string gauges dramatically, you will often need to do slight bridge adjustment. If I remember correctly, the Ozark is a flat top with a floating bridge. If you need to move the bridge, you can just loosen the tension on all the strings, and then carefully slide the bridge in the direction you need. Very small changes make a difference, so you may need to do the process a few times to get it dialed in.
Another issue that sometimes happens is that the act of stringing up an instrument, and tightening all the strings at once, is that it will pull the bridge forward, so that it isn't sitting flat on the top, and is actually leaning forward. As you're adjusting tensions on strings, you want to make sure that your bridge is sitting flat, and not moving.
If you're not comfortable messing about with it, you should be able to take it to any luthier for some adjustment, even if they're not too familiar with bouzoukis.
Thanks it seemed to work ,moving the bridge back towards the tail piece but just out of curiousity what are the best gauges for the strings tuned to GDAD?
String gauges are a personal preference (as well as related to how the instrument is set up... More tension on the strings will pull the neck forward, and raise the action. So heavier strings might change the action too much, and light strings might give you problems with buzzing).
A friend of mine wrote a java applet years ago, to calculate string tensions. You need to know the exact scale length of the instrument (in inches), and then you can change numbers around to see what the tension will be like.
I prefer my bouzouki strings to be at about 22 lbs of tension per string. And it can help keep the sound balanced if all your strings are about the same tension.
I don't know the scale length of your instrument. But this would be sample numbers that you could put in to the calculator.
len 24.75"
D .013" PL == 20.49#
A, .020" PB == 24.9#
D, .028" PB == 22.04#
G,, .044" PB == 24.43#
So you can see there that the tension for those gauges runs from 20 to 25 lbs of tension. You can change the scale length number (len) and the gauge numbers (.013", etc) until you get what would be balanced for your particular instrument. (Oh, and the PL means Plain Steel on the high D, and PB means Phosphor Bronze on the other strings)
If you use the 12th-fret string harmonics to check your intonation, there is still room for significant error. According to research, most people can't discern a pitch change smaller than ten cents and hardly anyone can do better than four or five cents. A four-cent difference between simultaneous notes is usually easy to hear just by listening to the wah-wah beat frequency, but with consecutive notes there's no wah-wah. So, across the strings you could wind up with 12th-fret intonation differences of perhaps 8 to 20 cents.
You can greatly improve the accuracy of the process by checking the pitch differences with a decent tuner with a real analog meter. The meter can show you differences of one cent or less. A strobe tuner should work, too.
The above replies are all correct about the bridge placement.
You might also want to try two other tests;
1) capo the strings at the first fret and repeat the 12th fret harmonic/fretted note tests, but obviously this time at the 13th fret.
If there are significant errors after you had satisfied yourself that the bridge was correctly placed for open string/12 fret octave notes, then you might have a nut that needs adjustment.
2) try a new set of strings - often the strings fitted to new instruments are not the best, and/or they may have been worn by other people trying it before you bought it.
PS Good luck. And you don't say it it's a Pacific-Rim or Eastern Europe 'Ozark', I find the PR ones significantly better in build than the EE ones.
Well, I think the Pacific Rim ones are much better, although there was a recent posting here re someone trying to establish where and when his PR octave mandolin was built, as he reckoned there was a definite difference between the different countries around the rim even though the design and construction are similar.
Mine is Korean and about 7 years old now, and between what I've done to it, maturing, and the current standard, I much prefer mine to a new one.
I assume yours has the slotted headstock and the inlaid wood scratchplate ? You can still beef it up a bit with a heavy brass tailpiece and a Red-Henry-pattern bridge ( I've written on this many times previously ) both of which encourage more of the string energy to the soundboard, thus improving volume and tone.
bouzouki troubles
bouzouki troubles
I got a new ozark bouzouki for christmas and tried to tune it to GDAD,however when i got it tuned the strings played open sounded in perfect tune then i tried a chord and on putting my finger on the fret of the lowest d string and every other fret belonging to that string it sounded out of complete tune.Is there somthing im doing wrong maybe the wrong gauge of strings or is the bouzouki a bad make?????
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by trad man
Re: bouzouki troubles
Sometimes if the strings are too high there are intonation problems, and sometimes intonation problems are due to a poorly made or set up instrument.
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: bouzouki troubles
My guess would be that the bridge placement is off. Measure from the nut (or zero fret if there is one) to the 12th fret. Whatever that is, place the bridge exactly the same distance from the 12th fret. That's just the starting point, you'll probably have to fudge the bridge a bit to get it really on but that's where you want to begin.
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by Steve L
Re: bouzouki troubles
Sound the harmonic at the twelfth fret, followed by the fretted note. They should be the same. If it goes higher, move the bridge away a little or vice versa.
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by gam
Re: bouzouki troubles
The easiest way to diagnose intonation problems is by comparing the 12th fret harmonic with the fretted string at the 12th fret.
If you're not familiar with playing a harmonic note, you touch the string lightly (don't fret it) directly over the 12th fret, pluck the string with your other hand, and then immediately remove your finger. This will make the string vibrate at the same frequency as if you had fretted it at the 12th fret.
If you compare the two tones on each set of strings, you can tell if your bridge is properly placed. If the fretted note is sharper than the harmonic, then the bridge needs to be moved back toward the tailpiece. If it is flat, it needs to be moved toward the sound hole.
As Steve mentioned, the bridge will be placed approximately twice the distance of the 12th fret, but it will always be a bit further away, because the act of bending the string down to touch the frets stretches the string a bit, and makes it sharp. You compensate for that by moving the bridge further away.
It helps to have strings that are well balanced, too. If you change string gauges dramatically, you will often need to do slight bridge adjustment. If I remember correctly, the Ozark is a flat top with a floating bridge. If you need to move the bridge, you can just loosen the tension on all the strings, and then carefully slide the bridge in the direction you need. Very small changes make a difference, so you may need to do the process a few times to get it dialed in.
Another issue that sometimes happens is that the act of stringing up an instrument, and tightening all the strings at once, is that it will pull the bridge forward, so that it isn't sitting flat on the top, and is actually leaning forward. As you're adjusting tensions on strings, you want to make sure that your bridge is sitting flat, and not moving.
If you're not comfortable messing about with it, you should be able to take it to any luthier for some adjustment, even if they're not too familiar with bouzoukis.
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by Reverend
Re: bouzouki troubles
Heh, cross post with gam. I'm just a bit more verbose about it
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by Reverend
Re: bouzouki troubles
Thanks it seemed to work ,moving the bridge back towards the tail piece but just out of curiousity what are the best gauges for the strings tuned to GDAD?
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by trad man
Re: bouzouki troubles
String gauges are a personal preference (as well as related to how the instrument is set up... More tension on the strings will pull the neck forward, and raise the action. So heavier strings might change the action too much, and light strings might give you problems with buzzing).
A friend of mine wrote a java applet years ago, to calculate string tensions. You need to know the exact scale length of the instrument (in inches), and then you can change numbers around to see what the tension will be like.
http://www.surveyor.com/guitar/stringtension.html
I prefer my bouzouki strings to be at about 22 lbs of tension per string. And it can help keep the sound balanced if all your strings are about the same tension.
I don't know the scale length of your instrument. But this would be sample numbers that you could put in to the calculator.
len 24.75"
D .013" PL == 20.49#
A, .020" PB == 24.9#
D, .028" PB == 22.04#
G,, .044" PB == 24.43#
So you can see there that the tension for those gauges runs from 20 to 25 lbs of tension. You can change the scale length number (len) and the gauge numbers (.013", etc) until you get what would be balanced for your particular instrument. (Oh, and the PL means Plain Steel on the high D, and PB means Phosphor Bronze on the other strings)
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by Reverend
Re: bouzouki troubles
Thanks very much for your help,thats great works like a charm.
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by trad man
Re: bouzouki troubles
If you use the 12th-fret string harmonics to check your intonation, there is still room for significant error. According to research, most people can't discern a pitch change smaller than ten cents and hardly anyone can do better than four or five cents. A four-cent difference between simultaneous notes is usually easy to hear just by listening to the wah-wah beat frequency, but with consecutive notes there's no wah-wah. So, across the strings you could wind up with 12th-fret intonation differences of perhaps 8 to 20 cents.
You can greatly improve the accuracy of the process by checking the pitch differences with a decent tuner with a real analog meter. The meter can show you differences of one cent or less. A strobe tuner should work, too.
# Posted on December 26th 2010 by Bob himself
Re: bouzouki troubles
The above replies are all correct about the bridge placement.
You might also want to try two other tests;
1) capo the strings at the first fret and repeat the 12th fret harmonic/fretted note tests, but obviously this time at the 13th fret.
If there are significant errors after you had satisfied yourself that the bridge was correctly placed for open string/12 fret octave notes, then you might have a nut that needs adjustment.
2) try a new set of strings - often the strings fitted to new instruments are not the best, and/or they may have been worn by other people trying it before you bought it.
PS Good luck. And you don't say it it's a Pacific-Rim or Eastern Europe 'Ozark', I find the PR ones significantly better in build than the EE ones.
# Posted on December 27th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: bouzouki troubles
Guernsey Pete makes a good point...the stock strings on these things can be awful.
# Posted on December 27th 2010 by Steve L
Re: bouzouki troubles
Yes it is an EE ozark is that good or bad?
# Posted on December 28th 2010 by trad man
Re: bouzouki troubles
Well, I think the Pacific Rim ones are much better, although there was a recent posting here re someone trying to establish where and when his PR octave mandolin was built, as he reckoned there was a definite difference between the different countries around the rim even though the design and construction are similar.
Mine is Korean and about 7 years old now, and between what I've done to it, maturing, and the current standard, I much prefer mine to a new one.
I assume yours has the slotted headstock and the inlaid wood scratchplate ? You can still beef it up a bit with a heavy brass tailpiece and a Red-Henry-pattern bridge ( I've written on this many times previously ) both of which encourage more of the string energy to the soundboard, thus improving volume and tone.
# Posted on December 28th 2010 by Guernsey Pete