Hey guys I am new to the forum! I am currently taking GHB lessons, but my true desire is Irish music. Unfortunately there are no Uilleann Pipe teachers in my area. So what do you guys think about small pipes? Are the welcome in Irish sessions? I mean obviously you will have difficulties with the tuning of the pipes compared to other instruments. I guess some tunes you won't even be able to play? I read some other people said they picked up the flute or whistle because of this reason. What is the best way to learn the flute without a teacher? I really would love someday to play the Uileann pipes but until there is a teacher I will have fun with the SSP, whistles, flutes and whatever else I can pick up.
I was in a similar situation for a while. I also play GHB and truly love the instrument, but I have to say that my passion is with the Uilleann pipes. I also play flute and whistle and can tell you now that you certainly don't need a teacher to learn the flute (I'm not saying you shouldn't get one if there is one around but it's not an extremely difficult instrument.) I am also a self taught uilleann piper and highland piper so if you want to give it a shot at teaching yourself it can certainly be done. I've messed around with a set of SSP once. For a lot of the popular session tunes (at least where I live) you would be sitting out a lot.
Ye I have already been picking up the whistle a little. Although I find it difficult to pick out the different embellishments they use when it is up to speed. Another problem that I have is that there really is not that many Irish Traditional musicians in my area that I know of. We will see what happens after a while. I have only been taking lessons on the pipes for about 4 months so I am still on the practice chanter.
Welcome. I was taught GHB first and later learned Ullleann pipes and whistle. I don't know anything about other types of pipes, but I have a suggestion: get yourself a whistle (or two - B flat and D) and whatever ornamentation you learn on the practise chanter, try to find some way of playing on the whistle. Your low G is a problem obviously, but the cran is equivalent to the birl. Some things won't work, like high 'g' gracenotes, and you will have to try other fingers, but the principle is the same. After a while you will recognize what other people are doing, and if you arm yourself with a couple of the many DVDs, CDs and books available, you should have no problem in following your heart's desire.
Jayrr, the GHB is far, far too much effort to learn unless your passion in Scottish music. The amount of Irish music you can play them is limited, they're not designed for modern Irish music. (i.e. the last 200 odd years). As others have said buy a whistle. You may be getting GHB leasons but the Uilleann pipes are easier to learn without a teacher than Scottish pipes.
Listen to a lot of good and bad uilleann piping.
You will be passing through the bad yourself on the way to the good if you take up the pipes.
But do not try uilleanns without a teacher and a pipe maker within reach for guidance and support.
Trying to do so without both can be absolute hell.
Trust me. i tried it, and with some experience on a number of other instruments already under my belt.
I used to play GHB, but then I changed to PFT after listening to GBH. These days I'm more into the RFE but sometimes I like to play a few tunes on the WTF.
Ye thanks guys! Great advice! I think I am just going to stick with my GHB lessons for now and see what develops. I am truly enjoying them and I have the opportunity to join my local pipe band which could prove to be fun. Also if anyone up here has a good Irish flute or low D whistle for sale let me know! Thanks!
The GHB is fantastic at what it does! There's a vast repertoire of GHB-specific music. I love the sound and music of the current top Pipe Bands. I've played in Pipe Bands for 30 years and there's nothing like it.
BUT what the GHB isn't good at, in the least, is playing Irish session music! Scottish smallpipes are better, but still very limited. One would have to have several Scottish Smallpipes in various keys to render the Irish session tunes in the proper keys. And few of the tunes will fit the limited scale of the SSP as they stand- most tunes will have to be arranged/condensed/compressed.
FAR better is to learn a normal Irish session instrument such as the six-hole flute, or whistle, or uilleann pipes.
Certainly worth picking up a whistle and starting to learn some tunes. It's nice if you don't have to learn basic tune repertoire AND how to make nice sounds come out of your pipes at the same time. (Like I did. Argh!)
And as far as the cost, no harm in trying out some of the less expensive 'student' models being made. I've heard lots of good things about David Daye's starter models, though I admit I haven't tried one personally. Stay away from the apparent bargains available from Pakistan, though.
The GHB is not and instrument to play Irish music on. It's not even designed to play indoors, let alone played in a normal session type thing with fiddles and tin whistles etc. It's just two bloody loud.
... but really, all kinds of scottish bagpipes are for scottish tunes written for those instrument in the traditions of scottish bagpipe playing.
I do know scottish pipers who play Irish music very succesfully on their various scottish pipes, but these are first and formost great players in the scottish tradition. With skill and excellent ears they create great Irish music comprised mainly of imaginative compromise.
Bogman has a set of Nigel's border pipes. Don't know if he has a set of those. I've not seen them at any rate. The borders at any rate are good for playing Scottish tunes at a session, but if you want to learn to play primarily Irish music, you should get a whistle until you can gather the funds for a decent set of Irish pipes. The technique varies so much between uilleann pipes and Scottish pipes that you can't start learning to play one thinking it's a stepping stone for the other. That's like learning the guitar because you really wanted to play banjo, but couldn't find a banjo.
Michael put it very well in saying that people who play Irish tunes well on the Scottish pipes are great players of Scottish music who know the strengths and limitations of the instrument so well that they can "create great Irish music comprised mainly of imaginative compromise."
"You may be getting GHB leasons but the Uilleann pipes are easier to learn without a teacher than Scottish pipes."
Eh?
Yeah, TSS I had to chuckle at that one, too.
Just because there is a less structured approach than in Scottish piping doesn't mean it isn't difficult or that it doesn't require guidance and coaching. It's an entirely different thing.
It's like comparing a 15th century shawm and an 18th century oboe; similar in basic design concept but very different instruments designed for different purposes.
Chuckle away. It's not to say the UP is any easier but as you rightly say, highland pipes are more structured. Also the chanter is less forgiving. It's just my own opinion based on my own experiences. I have never heard a self taught highland piper that was very good but I have heard several self taught Irish pipers who are very good and I've heard many, many more highland pipers than Irish. That's not going to be a popular statement with self taught GHB players I realise.
Having never played Highland pipes, I can't really compare them. I don't think the uilleann chanter is *that* forgiving for people just starting out. I also think beginning players need some guidance. Maybe not weekly lessons for ten years, but a few lessons.
I don't think it's that forgiving either, just that the highland chanter is less so and fingering is more specific. Obviously you really need a teacher with uilleanns too, I just think the mechanics of highlands make it near impossible to become a decent player without one.
Mind you, the OP is doing something! He has joined his local pipe band and is learning to move his fingers as required. This is a great start for any instrumentalist. Too many just talk about it, or write posts to the mustard board.
GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Hey guys I am new to the forum! I am currently taking GHB lessons, but my true desire is Irish music. Unfortunately there are no Uilleann Pipe teachers in my area. So what do you guys think about small pipes? Are the welcome in Irish sessions? I mean obviously you will have difficulties with the tuning of the pipes compared to other instruments. I guess some tunes you won't even be able to play? I read some other people said they picked up the flute or whistle because of this reason. What is the best way to learn the flute without a teacher? I really would love someday to play the Uileann pipes but until there is a teacher I will have fun with the SSP, whistles, flutes and whatever else I can pick up.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Jayrr1
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
If your passion is to play Irish pipes, and you can afford it, play Irish pipes. Whistles are cheap and a good way to learn tunes.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by shanty
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
I was in a similar situation for a while. I also play GHB and truly love the instrument, but I have to say that my passion is with the Uilleann pipes. I also play flute and whistle and can tell you now that you certainly don't need a teacher to learn the flute (I'm not saying you shouldn't get one if there is one around but it's not an extremely difficult instrument.) I am also a self taught uilleann piper and highland piper so if you want to give it a shot at teaching yourself it can certainly be done. I've messed around with a set of SSP once. For a lot of the popular session tunes (at least where I live) you would be sitting out a lot.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by WishiwasIrish
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Ye I have already been picking up the whistle a little. Although I find it difficult to pick out the different embellishments they use when it is up to speed. Another problem that I have is that there really is not that many Irish Traditional musicians in my area that I know of. We will see what happens after a while. I have only been taking lessons on the pipes for about 4 months so I am still on the practice chanter.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Jayrr1
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Welcome. I was taught GHB first and later learned Ullleann pipes and whistle. I don't know anything about other types of pipes, but I have a suggestion: get yourself a whistle (or two - B flat and D) and whatever ornamentation you learn on the practise chanter, try to find some way of playing on the whistle. Your low G is a problem obviously, but the cran is equivalent to the birl. Some things won't work, like high 'g' gracenotes, and you will have to try other fingers, but the principle is the same. After a while you will recognize what other people are doing, and if you arm yourself with a couple of the many DVDs, CDs and books available, you should have no problem in following your heart's desire.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by gam
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Jayrr, the GHB is far, far too much effort to learn unless your passion in Scottish music. The amount of Irish music you can play them is limited, they're not designed for modern Irish music. (i.e. the last 200 odd years). As others have said buy a whistle. You may be getting GHB leasons but the Uilleann pipes are easier to learn without a teacher than Scottish pipes.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by bogman
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Listen to a lot of good and bad uilleann piping.
You will be passing through the bad yourself on the way to the good if you take up the pipes.
But do not try uilleanns without a teacher and a pipe maker within reach for guidance and support.
Trying to do so without both can be absolute hell.
Trust me. i tried it, and with some experience on a number of other instruments already under my belt.
It might not be worth it.
My two cents.
Good Luck.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Piece
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
GHB =bmf Uillean pipes+ bodhrans dey r cool
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Oeidipus
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
I used to play GHB, but then I changed to PFT after listening to GBH. These days I'm more into the RFE but sometimes I like to play a few tunes on the WTF.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Gallowglass
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Ye thanks guys! Great advice! I think I am just going to stick with my GHB lessons for now and see what develops. I am truly enjoying them and I have the opportunity to join my local pipe band which could prove to be fun. Also if anyone up here has a good Irish flute or low D whistle for sale let me know! Thanks!
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Jayrr1
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Jayrr:
Another advantage you may find is, with GHBs you can make a break for the exit faster, too.
You're not all strapped in and all, with the regulators in your way, cutting a rather tragic-comic figure at a dead run I should think.
Ugly, really.
Best of Luck.
# Posted on December 19th 2010 by Piece
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
What Bogman said.
The GHB is fantastic at what it does! There's a vast repertoire of GHB-specific music. I love the sound and music of the current top Pipe Bands. I've played in Pipe Bands for 30 years and there's nothing like it.
BUT what the GHB isn't good at, in the least, is playing Irish session music! Scottish smallpipes are better, but still very limited. One would have to have several Scottish Smallpipes in various keys to render the Irish session tunes in the proper keys. And few of the tunes will fit the limited scale of the SSP as they stand- most tunes will have to be arranged/condensed/compressed.
FAR better is to learn a normal Irish session instrument such as the six-hole flute, or whistle, or uilleann pipes.
# Posted on December 19th 2010 by Richard D Cook
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Certainly worth picking up a whistle and starting to learn some tunes. It's nice if you don't have to learn basic tune repertoire AND how to make nice sounds come out of your pipes at the same time. (Like I did. Argh!)
And as far as the cost, no harm in trying out some of the less expensive 'student' models being made. I've heard lots of good things about David Daye's starter models, though I admit I haven't tried one personally. Stay away from the apparent bargains available from Pakistan, though.
# Posted on December 19th 2010 by markinpdx
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
"You may be getting GHB leasons but the Uilleann pipes are easier to learn without a teacher than Scottish pipes."
Eh?
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
really? They look much more complicated.
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by Jayrr1
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
The GHB is not and instrument to play Irish music on. It's not even designed to play indoors, let alone played in a normal session type thing with fiddles and tin whistles etc. It's just two bloody loud.
Much better with a set of these (I believe bogman has a set):
http://www.garviebagpipes.co.uk/info/pipes/garvies_session_pipes.html
... but really, all kinds of scottish bagpipes are for scottish tunes written for those instrument in the traditions of scottish bagpipe playing.
I do know scottish pipers who play Irish music very succesfully on their various scottish pipes, but these are first and formost great players in the scottish tradition. With skill and excellent ears they create great Irish music comprised mainly of imaginative compromise.
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by ...
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Bogman has a set of Nigel's border pipes. Don't know if he has a set of those. I've not seen them at any rate. The borders at any rate are good for playing Scottish tunes at a session, but if you want to learn to play primarily Irish music, you should get a whistle until you can gather the funds for a decent set of Irish pipes. The technique varies so much between uilleann pipes and Scottish pipes that you can't start learning to play one thinking it's a stepping stone for the other. That's like learning the guitar because you really wanted to play banjo, but couldn't find a banjo.
Michael put it very well in saying that people who play Irish tunes well on the Scottish pipes are great players of Scottish music who know the strengths and limitations of the instrument so well that they can "create great Irish music comprised mainly of imaginative compromise."
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
"You may be getting GHB leasons but the Uilleann pipes are easier to learn without a teacher than Scottish pipes."
Eh?
Yeah, TSS I had to chuckle at that one, too.
Just because there is a less structured approach than in Scottish piping doesn't mean it isn't difficult or that it doesn't require guidance and coaching. It's an entirely different thing.
It's like comparing a 15th century shawm and an 18th century oboe; similar in basic design concept but very different instruments designed for different purposes.
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Chuckle away. It's not to say the UP is any easier but as you rightly say, highland pipes are more structured. Also the chanter is less forgiving. It's just my own opinion based on my own experiences. I have never heard a self taught highland piper that was very good but I have heard several self taught Irish pipers who are very good and I've heard many, many more highland pipers than Irish. That's not going to be a popular statement with self taught GHB players I realise.
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by bogman
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Having never played Highland pipes, I can't really compare them. I don't think the uilleann chanter is *that* forgiving for people just starting out. I also think beginning players need some guidance. Maybe not weekly lessons for ten years, but a few lessons.
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
I don't think it's that forgiving either, just that the highland chanter is less so and fingering is more specific. Obviously you really need a teacher with uilleanns too, I just think the mechanics of highlands make it near impossible to become a decent player without one.
# Posted on December 21st 2010 by bogman
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Mind you, the OP is doing something! He has joined his local pipe band and is learning to move his fingers as required. This is a great start for any instrumentalist. Too many just talk about it, or write posts to the mustard board.
Regards,
Martin
# Posted on December 25th 2010 by MartinJongleur
Re: GHB Vs. Uilleann Pipes
Aye, I sometimes play my pipes when I'm not posting on the Mustard Board.
# Posted on December 25th 2010 by DrSilverSpear