I've recently started playing a bit of box. I've been messing around on a B/C but I've been playing it a note down with C/D fingering. (I find this more natural and prefer the punchy Sliabh Luchra style anyway). I haven't been bothering with the basses as I'm assuming they'll be differant when I get myself a C/D box. However, I've heard that there may be more than one arrangment for the basses on a C/D. If so, which do you think is best? If anyone has any links to diagrams it would be greatly appreciated too.
For C#/D, take the Jackie Daly 12-bass layout shown there as a starting point. For an 8-bass box, leave out the two bottom pairs. Make sure you have a stop to remove the thirds from the chords, or have the thirds taped over. This will give you a useful setup for playing in most common keys - except G, where you will find yourself stymied by the lack of a C chord.
If you want to play in G, you need 12 basses - or sacrifice your F#/B pair, which I wouldn't like to do.
For a 12-bass box, Jackie's layout as shown there is also very good. However, it's wrong. The outside bottom button pair he uses is C# pull, E push (not G# as shown there).
For my money, the F/C pair is essential. What you with the other pair is a toss-up. Jackie's setup allows him to do funky walking basses with that C#, and the E push allows him to play B/C style (analogous to a D push on a B/C box).
I have experimented with a few options for that last pair and currently I rather like B push, F# pull.
PS The only difference between the Jackie D 8-bass layout I suggest and what you are likely to get on a standard modern C#/D box is that Jackie recommends G/G (push and pull).
Most standard layouts will have either D/G or E/G on that button. But that means you cannot get a G chord on the push to play against the note of D.
Cheers for much Jeeves.
I suppose the G/G would be superior to the D/G basses as you already have the D on the D/A chord/bass on the 8-bass layout.
I'm supposing one of the A/E can be used for minors? As I say i'm new to this.
Why would you not like to sacrifice the F#/B in favour of an F/C?
How useful is a B chord? Apart from playing in F or B (which I wouldn't be in the habit of doing) does it serve any other purpose?
Any of the chords can be used as minors -- IF you have a stop to remove the thirds, or have the thirds taped over.
The thirds are all major, so they give you a big fat major chord. If you take the thirds out (with a stop or register, or by taping) then the chord consists of the tonic (1st degree) and dominant (5th degree) only. E.g. A and E in an A chord, meaning you can use it for major or minor melodies.
This is where F# and B come in handy. They will function as minors (the occasions where you would need F# major and B major in Irish music are few and far between). You will need Bm and F#m them for playing tunes in Bm, of which there are quite a few.
But the Bm chord is also very useful for playing tunes in Em - and the F# can come in very handy there, too, if you like to use moderately adventurous chord substitutions.
You can also use these two chords to good effect in D major tunes.
So I wouldn't ditch them - there is a certain self-contained logic to that 8-bass setup.
But it does require that you basically forget about accompanying tunes in G major.
If you want to do G major, then you can either scrap F#/B, or get a 12-bass box. Which is another level of expense and in most cases calls for a bigger, heavier instrument.
I'd go with the Jackie Daly 8-bass layout and wait until you really think you have to have 12-basses, or know enough to modify the 8-bass layout.
I think G/G is best but most likely you won't find one with that setup as standard. If you're or ordering a new box, tell them that's what you want and the maker can do it for you . If you're buying a used box from an accordion shop, ask them if they can fix it for you.
Otherwise, start with D/G, not the end of the world if you can't get G/G.
Not worth fretting too much about the basses unless you are sure you are going to make good use of them. The number of Irish players who do is small!
C/D basses
C/D basses
I've recently started playing a bit of box. I've been messing around on a B/C but I've been playing it a note down with C/D fingering. (I find this more natural and prefer the punchy Sliabh Luchra style anyway). I haven't been bothering with the basses as I'm assuming they'll be differant when I get myself a C/D box. However, I've heard that there may be more than one arrangment for the basses on a C/D. If so, which do you think is best? If anyone has any links to diagrams it would be greatly appreciated too.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Well Boi
Re: C/D basses
Some common bass layouts here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~hspeek/irishbox/basses.html
For C#/D, take the Jackie Daly 12-bass layout shown there as a starting point. For an 8-bass box, leave out the two bottom pairs. Make sure you have a stop to remove the thirds from the chords, or have the thirds taped over. This will give you a useful setup for playing in most common keys - except G, where you will find yourself stymied by the lack of a C chord.
If you want to play in G, you need 12 basses - or sacrifice your F#/B pair, which I wouldn't like to do.
For a 12-bass box, Jackie's layout as shown there is also very good. However, it's wrong. The outside bottom button pair he uses is C# pull, E push (not G# as shown there).
For my money, the F/C pair is essential. What you with the other pair is a toss-up. Jackie's setup allows him to do funky walking basses with that C#, and the E push allows him to play B/C style (analogous to a D push on a B/C box).
I have experimented with a few options for that last pair and currently I rather like B push, F# pull.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Jeeves Tones
Re: C/D basses
PS The only difference between the Jackie D 8-bass layout I suggest and what you are likely to get on a standard modern C#/D box is that Jackie recommends G/G (push and pull).
Most standard layouts will have either D/G or E/G on that button. But that means you cannot get a G chord on the push to play against the note of D.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Jeeves Tones
Re: C/D basses
Cheers for much Jeeves.
I suppose the G/G would be superior to the D/G basses as you already have the D on the D/A chord/bass on the 8-bass layout.
I'm supposing one of the A/E can be used for minors? As I say i'm new to this.
Why would you not like to sacrifice the F#/B in favour of an F/C?
How useful is a B chord? Apart from playing in F or B (which I wouldn't be in the habit of doing) does it serve any other purpose?
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Well Boi
Re: C/D basses
Any of the chords can be used as minors -- IF you have a stop to remove the thirds, or have the thirds taped over.
The thirds are all major, so they give you a big fat major chord. If you take the thirds out (with a stop or register, or by taping) then the chord consists of the tonic (1st degree) and dominant (5th degree) only. E.g. A and E in an A chord, meaning you can use it for major or minor melodies.
This is where F# and B come in handy. They will function as minors (the occasions where you would need F# major and B major in Irish music are few and far between). You will need Bm and F#m them for playing tunes in Bm, of which there are quite a few.
But the Bm chord is also very useful for playing tunes in Em - and the F# can come in very handy there, too, if you like to use moderately adventurous chord substitutions.
You can also use these two chords to good effect in D major tunes.
So I wouldn't ditch them - there is a certain self-contained logic to that 8-bass setup.
But it does require that you basically forget about accompanying tunes in G major.
If you want to do G major, then you can either scrap F#/B, or get a 12-bass box. Which is another level of expense and in most cases calls for a bigger, heavier instrument.
I'd go with the Jackie Daly 8-bass layout and wait until you really think you have to have 12-basses, or know enough to modify the 8-bass layout.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Jeeves Tones
Re: C/D basses
Thanks again Jeeves. I've a much better idea what I'm looking for.
I'm still a bit confused as whether to look out for a box with G/G or D/G chords/basses. Which is the most suitable?
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Well Boi
Re: C/D basses
I think G/G is best but most likely you won't find one with that setup as standard. If you're or ordering a new box, tell them that's what you want and the maker can do it for you . If you're buying a used box from an accordion shop, ask them if they can fix it for you.
Otherwise, start with D/G, not the end of the world if you can't get G/G.
Not worth fretting too much about the basses unless you are sure you are going to make good use of them. The number of Irish players who do is small!
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Jeeves Tones
Re: C/D basses
I've recently bought a set of Hohner C#/D reedblocks and there G/G is the inner-bottom bass.
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by nemethmik