I've been playing around with a ten-hole blues harmonica for a little while now, and I'm looking to go a little farther in my playing of traditional dance tunes on the harmonica. Does anyone have any suggestions about what kind would be the best to use for this sort of thing?
I'm not looking for a brand so much as I'm looking for a specific type(s) of "tune playing" harmonica. I haven't run into too many problems with the one I'm using yet, but I'd like to see what other people play/have encountered in the past.
Hi Danny,
nice to hear from somebody in Newfoundland. I spent this summer in Cape Breton, hearing lots of music all over, and the summers before that in Halifax, where they have a good ITM scene and also - and this is especially interesting for me as a blues harmonica player - a very lively blues scene, centering around a pub in Barrington Str (forgot the name, something like Beary´s or Beery´s). As to harps: I found that the usual diatonic 10-hole-harps are quite good for the American type of fiddle tunes, like Old joe Clark etc: the melodies are often modal in character which means they use the blues scale and you can play them in second position, using the 2nd hole drawn as your basic note. As a brand I personally prefer Lee Oskar over Hohner. For playing ITM, Quebecois and cape breton tunes, there are some harps in special tunings which are manufactured - at a reasonable price - by a German company, Seydel. They ship worldwide and I suggest you go to their website to see the different tunings they offer - quite an impressive range, actually. The site is: www.seydel1847.com. Good luck for your experiments, and: the harmonica IS an instrument!!
There are a few styles, and all of them can sound good. You'll surely be hearing from Steve Shaw on this, he's our resident expert. The style I like is based on a standard D diatonic, played from the middle d up to the high b - same range as a pennywhistle. This works for a surprisingly large percentage of tunes. Basically, anything that doesn't lean on the c natural, like Star of Munster or Sean Ryan's jig, or (obviously) on the f natural (Dm/ Gmix tunes) can work nicely on this. Some tunes that are especially nice this way are Man of the House, Drunken Landlady, Mulqueen's, the Honeysuckle hornpipe, Donnybrook Fair, Tripping Up the Stairs, My Darling Asleep.
I lean towards this style because I find I really like the snap of the higher reeds, it gives me a rhythmic precision that I like. It's also nice because in that range you're quite audible, where a lower range is a lot harder to hear in a session. Sounds great with a flute, I find, at least with the flute players around here.
I don't find that the G and the A harmonicas are very useful for this, because their continuous range doesn't overlap so well with the standard trad range - I have to do too much re-jiggering of the tunes. The solution that I'd like to try would be retuning a D with the cs natural instead of sharp, and maybe another with G#s, but I haven't yet got around to that experiment.
Most melody instruments sound cool when well-played, and what really is a trad Irish instrument anyway? Certainly not the pipes (Scotland), fiddle or mando (Italy), guitar (Spain), box (Germany and France) or zouk (Greece). That leaves the bodran and the flute.
I've played with some superb harmonica players. Only bummer is, most harmonicas are one octave, so you have to do a lot of piper-style fiddling with notes.
One octave? Not at all, Chris! Standard D diatonic has exactly the same range as the tin whistle - an octave and a half. More, if you tinker with the bottom end to put back the gapped notes. The only thing you can't do is get the C natural and the G#, and that's only because I won't bend notes in trad - it doesn't sound right to my ears.
I have been playing the harmonica since 1966, July to be exact.
Wonderful instrument but personally i think Irish music sounds strange on it, a bit like a box if truth be told.
The blues harps are as good as any but better if you adjust the notes, Paddy Richter tuning they call it.
Despite playing the thing since 1966 I have no idea what the notes are, as I an just gifted. I like the Lee OsCar, better than Hohner these days in my humble opinion.
Tin whistle has at least 2 full octaves range before it sounds horrible. Plus, you can (and I do) bend notes on it too, either through breath control or half hole smears.
I really like the texture of the harmonica sound and I can imagine that D diatonic would fit in well, given that so many trad tunes are commonly played in keys work on D diatonic instruments to accomodate whistlers and fluters.
Apart from that fair enough, you're the harmonica player, I'm just a spectator. I've got to say this discussion is making me want to go on ebay and buy a nice little harmonica to muck about with while I'm off work over Christmas.
Go for it, Red. It's a blast to play, and like the man says, it doesn't add a lot to your kit. All of this talk about the harmonica makes me realize I haven't been playing that thing nearly enough. I wonder if I've got any lip left...
Actually, there is no reason a good whistle player shouldn't be able to hit a solid top D. For me it's just the right attack & only one cross-finger position that I know of.
My favourite instrument, the "real" traditional instrument, cost very little so was affordable to the common man/woman who were responsible for much of the music over the centuries.
Alas, I never really stuck at it, being extremely lazy, which led to me becoming the best bodhran player ever.
But I still play the thing, but living in Norn' Ireland means that in the average pub when you produce a whistle 92% of people shout "Play the Boatman"
So I stick mainly to the harmonica, and mandolin of course for airs, Carolan stuff, and songs.
Now the harmonica is lovely as well for airs, but I suspect it is a 1960s thing I still have in that a harmonica at a session was considered.....odd. People would laugh.
That of course was in Ireland, where traditional music is NOT particularly strong.
The standard harmonicas you buy in a shop will not get you anywhere near all the ornamentation that fiddles, flutes and whistles can get. There are people who will provide you with seriously tweaked harmonicas (for serious money) that go some way to "rectifying" this, but, to my ear, what happens all too often is that this makes the harmonica the point of the thing instead of the music, and you tend to get this "I'll do that cut/roll/triplet/whatever on my modified beast as often as possible -- because I can." I hate all that. I prefer to try to embrace and enjoy the simplicity of the instrument and to go along with its limitations. You can make up for its "deficiencies" by playing your tunes with spirit, lift and good rhythm, and just be happy with the few ornaments that are available (and there are some and they are useful), and, of course, you will have learned your tunes by ear and will have have avoided that spawn of Satan, harmonica tab, like the plague.
I do have sympathy with chromatic players who reverse the slide (a simple enough thing to do once you've worked out what key harp to buy), though I don't use chroms enough myself to bother with it.
Other than this, there is just one modification that will transform your ability to join in at sessions with your ten-hole harps, and that is to adopt the Paddy Richter tuning. In the lowest octave of a blues harp there is a note missing that will, by its absence, give you aggravation, especially in tunes in G, A or related modes. This note, the sixth note of the scale, can be put back by retuning just one reed, the 3-blow, up by a whole tone. The note you'll be ditching by doing this is duplicated on the harp anyway, so you're not robbing Peter to play Paul. I'm no technical genius but I've taught myself to do this retune and I can do it in five minutes. You can buy harps in the Paddy tuning but I can't speak for them. It's the only compromise I've found that I really have to make, and, most of the time, you won't need it with your D harps anyway.
As for brands, etc., most of the harps that come in the twenty-quid-thirty-dollar range are good. I prefer low D harps over the standard tuning, and my favourite is the Hohner Special 20 low D. Low D harps put you in the same range as fiddles if you play mainly through the middle of the harp. Other approaches are possible but that's mine and I'm sticking with it! For some reason, Lee Oskar and Suzuki, both good makes, don't do low Ds. My favourite harps in G and A are Suzuki Bluesmasters, though Lee Oskars are good as well. Generally speaking, I've found that Hohner 10-hole harps don't enjoy the longevity of Lee Oskars or Suzukis, but a lot depends on your playing style, and Hohners do play nice....
So, when I go out the pub, my harp bag contains a low D SP20, a G Bluesmaster and an A Bluesmaster. I always have duplicates for the D and G harps just in case a pubic hair gets lodged in a reed (it's OK, Jeremy - I'm posting after the watershed). It's handy to have a C harp as well. That's the minimum, though of course I have a larger collection, amassed over the years. I also have chroms in D and G, though there are nights when these don't come out of their cases.
Harmonicas are quiet beasts and you won't be heard if you're up against happy boozers, a couple of guitars, a couple of fiddles and worse. Hohner XB40s are very loud but I find them to be unlovable sods personally. If you're good it simply ain't fair that you can't be heard, and you'll end up blowing out your harps in no time. My mates are more than happy for me to use a little battery amp these days, but that's me and my mates and it's a setup that requires a good deal of prior nurturing. I would never turn up to anyone else's session with an amp. Really good sessions with a quiet area around the musicians are brilliant for harmonica players. Just play clean, don't show off all your head-shakes and bends and wah-wahs, keep it in the spirit of the music and remember that you don't need the sort of inferiority complex (the sort of thing that occasional eejits hereabouts would like to engender) that will make you misjudge how you should play the tunes. It's all about having fun with your mates.
The guy in Craic Addict's link is Noel Battle, who insists on playing only Tombo Band Deluxe tremolo harps. Tremolos are a whole nother dimension. I do dabble a little meself...
Does AndyPandy agree with him? I never know what the kid is saying, with all those trendy abbreviations.
To echo key points above, any harmonica in the key of D can allow you to play along with all sorts of tunes. Jon is right, the normal D harmonica, in the tinwhistle octave, is real peppy and responsive, although myself, I prefer the low D in the flute octave, and being part of the crowd.
And on A and D harmonicas, I can see how the Paddy Richter tuning on the lowest octave is the way to go if you really want to play all the tunes (although myself, I only own unmodified instruments.
And for ornaments, I use a tongued triplet where a whistle or flute would roll, and keep things pretty simple. Like Steve said, don't go overboard making the instrument sound like something else.
But a lot of the harmonica things I might do in other music, like bending notes and stuff, I leave at the door. Clean and simple works best on dance tunes.
The blues harp was not invented for blues playing, old chap. Attend more to one's scholarship and one discovers these things for oneself, one finds. The 10-hole "Richter-tuned" diatonic harmonica predates "blues" by a considerable time. It was discovered by those of bluesy inclination that here they had a cheap instrument with lots of emotional potential that could be played in a key other than its home key. Second position to be precise. Your point falls flat on its face, unfortunately. Also, I should tell you (pity there's no tiny print option here) that I am a bodhran player, though these days the beast does what bodhrans do best, collects dust on top of the spare room wardrobe.
As I said I discovered I could play a mouth organ no problem, just automatically know when to blow and suck. A chromatic, no idea, it has theory and buttons and stuff l;ike that. as I say I have no idea what notes are on a harmonica, I just play the thing. If I know the tune, or can remember it, I can play it, blues, jazz, classical, trad, doesn't matter.
So at an early age my friend and I were actually getting a few paid bookings, me on a cheap Chinese "Hero" harmonica, key of C, and him on a whistle. We played airs and Carolan stuff and a few jigs and reels. There was that little exposure to Irish traditional in those days in the university area in Belfast that people raved about us.
Foolishly encouraged by this, and wanting to "join in" at sessions, and having found a cheap instrument to allow me to do so, I took to going to sessions.
Alas at sessions you had flutes, whistles, bodhrans, pipes, banjos, accordians, mandolins, guitars, but no.....harmonica.
everyone stared at you as if you were simple, what in the name of God is he playing looks and such. And then the comments started, much like those 4 I posted above, by people who should know better.
In short, you were abused, laughed at, made fun of, and generally discouraged, much as many do here nowadays with other instruments. And we all crave acceptance so what to do? Here I was with what was seen as a toy, it wasn't a "real" instrument, and certainly wasn't a real Irish traditional instrument. Just some punter who wanted to try to join in, and too lazy to learn a "real" instrument.
In the end I got a bodhran, another easy way in some might say (not quite as easy as the harmonica) but at least a bodhran was seen as a traditional Irish instrument, in traditional Irish circles, in Ireland.
Since those days I have ALWAYS accepted instruments at sessions and on discussion boards, until proven otherwise in given circumstances, such as a novice bag pipe player at a session.
I remember being laughed at for being the only traditional harmonica player in Belfast, so I always urge people not to laugh at fellow musicians.
Well, all I can say is that I've been out there playing the harmonica for a couple of decades and no-one has ever laughed at me (or wept even). Perhaps those who feel affronted that they are suffering derision from others for playing their chosen instrument should consider whether they are approaching sessions with the right attitude. I'm not bragging, but I can't help feeling that the diffidence with which I approach a new situation has always served me very well. I haven't met too many bodhran players who display due diffidence, unfortunately, and that could be their problem. Or part of it at least. At least with a harmonica or three in your pocket you can sneak up on a session without triggering the automatic closing of the ranks. After that, it's up to you.
Well, all I can say is that I've been out there playing the harmonica for a couple of decades and no-one has ever laughed at me (or wept even). Perhaps those who feel affronted that they are suffering derision from others for playing their chosen instrument should consider whether they are approaching sessions with the right attitude. I'm not bragging, but I can't help feeling that the diffidence with which I approach a new situation has always served me very well. I haven't met too many bodhran players who display due diffidence, unfortunately, and that could be their problem. Or part of it at least. At least with a harmonica or three in your pocket you can sneak up on a session without triggering the automatic closing of the ranks. After that, it's up to you.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Steve Shaw
I never really knew you were on the scene in IRELAND in the 1960s Steve.
Nowadays you can turn up at a session with a backing tracks machine and maybe be ok. As late as 1978 on a visit back to Belfast with a Manchester friend who was absolutely brilliant on the RECORDER, brought much of the same puzzlement, merriment, and sniggering.
"Diffidence" at sessions is a recent invention by traditional snobs and false purists who are usually outsiders, often playing non traditional "funny" instruments. They don't really understand the true tradition, which is really "anything goes" but nowadays they and their "funny" instruments will be accepted.
In recent weeks I have witnessed two great rows which nearly descended into mass brawls at well established sessions featuring a number of very well known musicians who are held in high esteem. The first instance was when a regular visitor from Oz, a local originally, asked for a loan of someones guitar and was refused. This resulted in "Is this a session, do ye not know what a session is where ALL are welcome and you share?" The visitor is steeped in the tradition and has been playing for some 40 years, the guitar player who said no has only been about for say 5 years.
The second occasion was the same, this time a well known player wanted to borrow a drum.
Maybe, just maybe Steve, they have different attitudes as to what a session is in different parts of the world.
My misfortune all those years ago was to run into the only bunch of "purists" who were operating in Belfast. A few years later I discovered that they were the subject of ridicule for having "rules" at sessions. The history of what a ceilidh or session was is illuminating, before that tradition emigrated to public houses in England and now thankfully all over the world.
Diffidence means you don't go swanning in thinking you're the dog's dangly bits. I'm talking about hovering on the margins for a bit, getting the feel and not just butting in in breach of whatever the protocol is (and which you know nothing of). That is how you get to play a little and not get laughed at, and get to play a bit more next time. Maybe you fooled around a bit too much or something, but getting laughed at, even once I've produced my harps, is not something that has ever happened to me, not once. There's nothing snobby about diffidence. It's how you get to join in and eventually get welcomed. Outcomes, dear boy, outcomes. And sessions are not "the tradition." Second time I've said that.
Diffidence means you don't go swanning in thinking you're the dog's dangly bits. I'm talking about hovering on the margins for a bit, getting the feel and not just butting in in breach of whatever the protocol is (and which you know nothing of). That is how you get to play a little and not get laughed at, and get to play a bit more next time.
What you describe as diffidence seems to me ordinary politeness - you wouldn't just sit down at someone's table and join in their conversation, not knowing them, would you? Why is it different if the conversation is a musical one?
A session is a sociable event, centered on music. Ordinary courtesy will get you a long way.
What you describe as diffidence seems to me ordinary politeness - you wouldn't just sit down at someone's table and join in their conversation, not knowing them, would you?
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
I would indeed because I am Irish. that's what we do.
I have no idea what other cultures do.
And that is why at an IRISH session, anything goes.
Now you could be pedantic and ask if that includes throwing beer over people or mass riots but that would be being really, really silly.
I am five seven, weighing 130 pounds, aged 57 and unmarked.
I would have used diffidence to for the 'keep the whistle up your sleeve till you have sussed the situation' behaviour as well. But I just checked the dictionary and its seems Jon is right that it is wrong. Funny what one learns on the yellow board.
I hope I didn't say that diffidence is the wrong word. I only meant thatin this case it turns out to be a form of politeness.
(I probably think far too much about politeness, but it's fascinating stuff. There's no end to what you can learn about people by understanding how to be polite to them, and there's no end to the good will that simple courtesy can generate.)
In brief (snipped from OED) diffident: modest or shy because of a lack of self-confidence....... From Latin diffident-, diffidere 'fail to trust'.
Not quite what Steve meant I think. But its a word I have used as he did. One can be self-confident but still not barge in without watching and thinking. But yes, a form of politeness.
Trumped, I am. I always used it in the sense that I think Steve meant, without the connotations of lack of confidence, but you're right - in that sense it's not exactly the right word.
What about "reticent"? No, turns out that's not exactly the word we're looking for, either. "Not saying all one knows or thinks; silent or tacitun".
Jaysus wept. I mean that you approach a new situation with honesty, modesty, unforcedness, circumspection. You don't know the local protocol, so you hover round the edge for a bit until you suss it out. You let it be known, with due modesty, that you play an instrument, and you hope to offered the chance to have a go. In other words, you approach a new session with due diffidence. Not arrogance, not know-it-all and, by the living 'arry, we've all seen that haven't we. It ain't your gig, no matter how good you think you are, so you have to set the scene yourself to get yourself invited to have a go. I don't care whether you call it diffidence or what. The point is that it works better than any other way I've seen. There's an extra dimension to the potential resistance you'll meet if you play a non-mainstream instrument. You just have to show, by diffidence, modesty and good taste, that you're worth being offered a chance to play. That's it.
No, not in other words at all. I can choose my own words. If you want to play in someone else's session you have to do a bit more than be polite. You have to have a strategy. Now I think I've made it as clear as possible what my personal strategy would be (has been - and it worked for me). I don't care if you call it politeness, diffidence or Jake the Peg, to be honest. This website is not supposed to be about showing how clever one is with words, as far as I know.
Calm down Steve. So far as I was concerned I knew exactly what you meant and have used the same word for the same thing myself. Its just that I was surprised to find that the dictionary said different. I checked the two-volume SOED, and unlike other words that are squabbled about here there is no hint of 'our' usage. Bliss seems to agree with our usage (on the other thread).
Well, you carry on arguing the fine points of a bloody word. I can't be arsed any more. I'll ignore you from now on and try to stay on topic. I'm so pleased you know exactly what I meant. it wasn't hard, was it?
Harmonica Question
Harmonica Question
I've been playing around with a ten-hole blues harmonica for a little while now, and I'm looking to go a little farther in my playing of traditional dance tunes on the harmonica. Does anyone have any suggestions about what kind would be the best to use for this sort of thing?
I'm not looking for a brand so much as I'm looking for a specific type(s) of "tune playing" harmonica. I haven't run into too many problems with the one I'm using yet, but I'd like to see what other people play/have encountered in the past.
# Posted on December 13th 2010 by dannym
Re: Harmonica Question
Hi Danny,
nice to hear from somebody in Newfoundland. I spent this summer in Cape Breton, hearing lots of music all over, and the summers before that in Halifax, where they have a good ITM scene and also - and this is especially interesting for me as a blues harmonica player - a very lively blues scene, centering around a pub in Barrington Str (forgot the name, something like Beary´s or Beery´s). As to harps: I found that the usual diatonic 10-hole-harps are quite good for the American type of fiddle tunes, like Old joe Clark etc: the melodies are often modal in character which means they use the blues scale and you can play them in second position, using the 2nd hole drawn as your basic note. As a brand I personally prefer Lee Oskar over Hohner. For playing ITM, Quebecois and cape breton tunes, there are some harps in special tunings which are manufactured - at a reasonable price - by a German company, Seydel. They ship worldwide and I suggest you go to their website to see the different tunings they offer - quite an impressive range, actually. The site is: www.seydel1847.com. Good luck for your experiments, and: the harmonica IS an instrument!!
# Posted on December 13th 2010 by alexweger
Re: Harmonica Question
There are a few styles, and all of them can sound good. You'll surely be hearing from Steve Shaw on this, he's our resident expert. The style I like is based on a standard D diatonic, played from the middle d up to the high b - same range as a pennywhistle. This works for a surprisingly large percentage of tunes. Basically, anything that doesn't lean on the c natural, like Star of Munster or Sean Ryan's jig, or (obviously) on the f natural (Dm/ Gmix tunes) can work nicely on this. Some tunes that are especially nice this way are Man of the House, Drunken Landlady, Mulqueen's, the Honeysuckle hornpipe, Donnybrook Fair, Tripping Up the Stairs, My Darling Asleep.
I lean towards this style because I find I really like the snap of the higher reeds, it gives me a rhythmic precision that I like. It's also nice because in that range you're quite audible, where a lower range is a lot harder to hear in a session. Sounds great with a flute, I find, at least with the flute players around here.
I don't find that the G and the A harmonicas are very useful for this, because their continuous range doesn't overlap so well with the standard trad range - I have to do too much re-jiggering of the tunes. The solution that I'd like to try would be retuning a D with the cs natural instead of sharp, and maybe another with G#s, but I haven't yet got around to that experiment.
Good luck, have fun with that.
# Posted on December 13th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
Most melody instruments sound cool when well-played, and what really is a trad Irish instrument anyway? Certainly not the pipes (Scotland), fiddle or mando (Italy), guitar (Spain), box (Germany and France) or zouk (Greece). That leaves the bodran and the flute.
I've played with some superb harmonica players. Only bummer is, most harmonicas are one octave, so you have to do a lot of piper-style fiddling with notes.
# Posted on December 13th 2010 by chris stolz
Re: Harmonica Question
One octave? Not at all, Chris! Standard D diatonic has exactly the same range as the tin whistle - an octave and a half. More, if you tinker with the bottom end to put back the gapped notes. The only thing you can't do is get the C natural and the G#, and that's only because I won't bend notes in trad - it doesn't sound right to my ears.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
I have been playing the harmonica since 1966, July to be exact.
Wonderful instrument but personally i think Irish music sounds strange on it, a bit like a box if truth be told.
The blues harps are as good as any but better if you adjust the notes, Paddy Richter tuning they call it.
Despite playing the thing since 1966 I have no idea what the notes are, as I an just gifted. I like the Lee OsCar, better than Hohner these days in my humble opinion.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
Tin whistle has at least 2 full octaves range before it sounds horrible. Plus, you can (and I do) bend notes on it too, either through breath control or half hole smears.
I really like the texture of the harmonica sound and I can imagine that D diatonic would fit in well, given that so many trad tunes are commonly played in keys work on D diatonic instruments to accomodate whistlers and fluters.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Red Menace
Re: Harmonica Question
Whatever this guy is doing sounds damn good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn9HJp0x258
(Thanks to Will Harmon for posting this link a little while back)
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Pat Mustard
Re: Harmonica Question
Red - I suppose you can get up to the squeaky d on a whistle, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD!
And yeah, I know you can get the half notes on a whistle - I was saying that I don't like to bend notes on the harmonica in trad music.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
My top D is not squeaky!!
Apart from that fair enough, you're the harmonica player, I'm just a spectator. I've got to say this discussion is making me want to go on ebay and buy a nice little harmonica to muck about with while I'm off work over Christmas.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Red Menace
Re: Harmonica Question
there is this about the harmonica, it's a lot easier than a fiddle to put in your pocket.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by full measure
Re: Harmonica Question
Go for it, Red. It's a blast to play, and like the man says, it doesn't add a lot to your kit. All of this talk about the harmonica makes me realize I haven't been playing that thing nearly enough. I wonder if I've got any lip left...
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
Actually, there is no reason a good whistle player shouldn't be able to hit a solid top D. For me it's just the right attack & only one cross-finger position that I know of.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Harmonica Question
Ah, the whistle.
My favourite instrument, the "real" traditional instrument, cost very little so was affordable to the common man/woman who were responsible for much of the music over the centuries.
Alas, I never really stuck at it, being extremely lazy, which led to me becoming the best bodhran player ever.
But I still play the thing, but living in Norn' Ireland means that in the average pub when you produce a whistle 92% of people shout "Play the Boatman"
So I stick mainly to the harmonica, and mandolin of course for airs, Carolan stuff, and songs.
Now the harmonica is lovely as well for airs, but I suspect it is a 1960s thing I still have in that a harmonica at a session was considered.....odd. People would laugh.
That of course was in Ireland, where traditional music is NOT particularly strong.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
The standard harmonicas you buy in a shop will not get you anywhere near all the ornamentation that fiddles, flutes and whistles can get. There are people who will provide you with seriously tweaked harmonicas (for serious money) that go some way to "rectifying" this, but, to my ear, what happens all too often is that this makes the harmonica the point of the thing instead of the music, and you tend to get this "I'll do that cut/roll/triplet/whatever on my modified beast as often as possible -- because I can." I hate all that. I prefer to try to embrace and enjoy the simplicity of the instrument and to go along with its limitations. You can make up for its "deficiencies" by playing your tunes with spirit, lift and good rhythm, and just be happy with the few ornaments that are available (and there are some and they are useful), and, of course, you will have learned your tunes by ear and will have have avoided that spawn of Satan, harmonica tab, like the plague.
I do have sympathy with chromatic players who reverse the slide (a simple enough thing to do once you've worked out what key harp to buy), though I don't use chroms enough myself to bother with it.
Other than this, there is just one modification that will transform your ability to join in at sessions with your ten-hole harps, and that is to adopt the Paddy Richter tuning. In the lowest octave of a blues harp there is a note missing that will, by its absence, give you aggravation, especially in tunes in G, A or related modes. This note, the sixth note of the scale, can be put back by retuning just one reed, the 3-blow, up by a whole tone. The note you'll be ditching by doing this is duplicated on the harp anyway, so you're not robbing Peter to play Paul. I'm no technical genius but I've taught myself to do this retune and I can do it in five minutes. You can buy harps in the Paddy tuning but I can't speak for them. It's the only compromise I've found that I really have to make, and, most of the time, you won't need it with your D harps anyway.
As for brands, etc., most of the harps that come in the twenty-quid-thirty-dollar range are good. I prefer low D harps over the standard tuning, and my favourite is the Hohner Special 20 low D. Low D harps put you in the same range as fiddles if you play mainly through the middle of the harp. Other approaches are possible but that's mine and I'm sticking with it! For some reason, Lee Oskar and Suzuki, both good makes, don't do low Ds. My favourite harps in G and A are Suzuki Bluesmasters, though Lee Oskars are good as well. Generally speaking, I've found that Hohner 10-hole harps don't enjoy the longevity of Lee Oskars or Suzukis, but a lot depends on your playing style, and Hohners do play nice....
So, when I go out the pub, my harp bag contains a low D SP20, a G Bluesmaster and an A Bluesmaster. I always have duplicates for the D and G harps just in case a pubic hair gets lodged in a reed (it's OK, Jeremy - I'm posting after the watershed). It's handy to have a C harp as well. That's the minimum, though of course I have a larger collection, amassed over the years. I also have chroms in D and G, though there are nights when these don't come out of their cases.
Harmonicas are quiet beasts and you won't be heard if you're up against happy boozers, a couple of guitars, a couple of fiddles and worse. Hohner XB40s are very loud but I find them to be unlovable sods personally. If you're good it simply ain't fair that you can't be heard, and you'll end up blowing out your harps in no time. My mates are more than happy for me to use a little battery amp these days, but that's me and my mates and it's a setup that requires a good deal of prior nurturing. I would never turn up to anyone else's session with an amp. Really good sessions with a quiet area around the musicians are brilliant for harmonica players. Just play clean, don't show off all your head-shakes and bends and wah-wahs, keep it in the spirit of the music and remember that you don't need the sort of inferiority complex (the sort of thing that occasional eejits hereabouts would like to engender) that will make you misjudge how you should play the tunes. It's all about having fun with your mates.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
The guy in Craic Addict's link is Noel Battle, who insists on playing only Tombo Band Deluxe tremolo harps. Tremolos are a whole nother dimension. I do dabble a little meself...
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Steve Shaw
what a wonderful, instructive post.
Now all that enthusiasm for YOUR chosen instrument comes across and could inspire any budding player.
Why not let others enjoy their chosen instruments as well?
A lovely post Steve, really good..
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
Well b'ys, thanks very much for all the info. I'll certainly do what I can as far as retuning goes, and I appreciate all the advice.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by dannym
Re: Harmonica Question
Do what you can about returning as well, and let us know how it goes.
(And really, don't mind BB, he's harmless. Just a little, well, you know...)
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
Bodhrans r the biz.
gob irons=bmf
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Oeidipus
Re: Harmonica Question
Tony Dannecker does a brilliant job and the premium is small. He does only deal with Hohner harmonicas, however.
# Posted on December 14th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
Does AndyPandy agree with him? I never know what the kid is saying, with all those trendy abbreviations.
To echo key points above, any harmonica in the key of D can allow you to play along with all sorts of tunes. Jon is right, the normal D harmonica, in the tinwhistle octave, is real peppy and responsive, although myself, I prefer the low D in the flute octave, and being part of the crowd.
And on A and D harmonicas, I can see how the Paddy Richter tuning on the lowest octave is the way to go if you really want to play all the tunes (although myself, I only own unmodified instruments.
And for ornaments, I use a tongued triplet where a whistle or flute would roll, and keep things pretty simple. Like Steve said, don't go overboard making the instrument sound like something else.
But a lot of the harmonica things I might do in other music, like bending notes and stuff, I leave at the door. Clean and simple works best on dance tunes.
# Posted on December 15th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Harmonica Question
The blues harp was not invented for blues playing, old chap. Attend more to one's scholarship and one discovers these things for oneself, one finds. The 10-hole "Richter-tuned" diatonic harmonica predates "blues" by a considerable time. It was discovered by those of bluesy inclination that here they had a cheap instrument with lots of emotional potential that could be played in a key other than its home key. Second position to be precise. Your point falls flat on its face, unfortunately. Also, I should tell you (pity there's no tiny print option here) that I am a bodhran player, though these days the beast does what bodhrans do best, collects dust on top of the spare room wardrobe.
# Posted on December 15th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
As I said I discovered I could play a mouth organ no problem, just automatically know when to blow and suck. A chromatic, no idea, it has theory and buttons and stuff l;ike that. as I say I have no idea what notes are on a harmonica, I just play the thing. If I know the tune, or can remember it, I can play it, blues, jazz, classical, trad, doesn't matter.
So at an early age my friend and I were actually getting a few paid bookings, me on a cheap Chinese "Hero" harmonica, key of C, and him on a whistle. We played airs and Carolan stuff and a few jigs and reels. There was that little exposure to Irish traditional in those days in the university area in Belfast that people raved about us.
Foolishly encouraged by this, and wanting to "join in" at sessions, and having found a cheap instrument to allow me to do so, I took to going to sessions.
Alas at sessions you had flutes, whistles, bodhrans, pipes, banjos, accordians, mandolins, guitars, but no.....harmonica.
everyone stared at you as if you were simple, what in the name of God is he playing looks and such. And then the comments started, much like those 4 I posted above, by people who should know better.
In short, you were abused, laughed at, made fun of, and generally discouraged, much as many do here nowadays with other instruments. And we all crave acceptance so what to do? Here I was with what was seen as a toy, it wasn't a "real" instrument, and certainly wasn't a real Irish traditional instrument. Just some punter who wanted to try to join in, and too lazy to learn a "real" instrument.
In the end I got a bodhran, another easy way in some might say (not quite as easy as the harmonica) but at least a bodhran was seen as a traditional Irish instrument, in traditional Irish circles, in Ireland.
Since those days I have ALWAYS accepted instruments at sessions and on discussion boards, until proven otherwise in given circumstances, such as a novice bag pipe player at a session.
I remember being laughed at for being the only traditional harmonica player in Belfast, so I always urge people not to laugh at fellow musicians.
That my fellow musicians, is the story.
# Posted on December 15th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
What a story. I almost shed a single tear, like Shahrukh Khan in Devdas.
# Posted on December 15th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
Well, all I can say is that I've been out there playing the harmonica for a couple of decades and no-one has ever laughed at me (or wept even). Perhaps those who feel affronted that they are suffering derision from others for playing their chosen instrument should consider whether they are approaching sessions with the right attitude. I'm not bragging, but I can't help feeling that the diffidence with which I approach a new situation has always served me very well. I haven't met too many bodhran players who display due diffidence, unfortunately, and that could be their problem. Or part of it at least. At least with a harmonica or three in your pocket you can sneak up on a session without triggering the automatic closing of the ranks. After that, it's up to you.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
What a story. I almost shed a single tear, like Shahrukh Khan in Devdas.
# Posted on December 15th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
You alas by an accident of birth would never understand the real tradition as enjoyed in Belfast in the 1960s and 70s.
So I understand your reply. I can sympathise with you, but you would maybe not appreciate that.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
The real tradition is scarcely to be found in sessions, is it, Belfast or no?
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
Well, all I can say is that I've been out there playing the harmonica for a couple of decades and no-one has ever laughed at me (or wept even). Perhaps those who feel affronted that they are suffering derision from others for playing their chosen instrument should consider whether they are approaching sessions with the right attitude. I'm not bragging, but I can't help feeling that the diffidence with which I approach a new situation has always served me very well. I haven't met too many bodhran players who display due diffidence, unfortunately, and that could be their problem. Or part of it at least. At least with a harmonica or three in your pocket you can sneak up on a session without triggering the automatic closing of the ranks. After that, it's up to you.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Steve Shaw
I never really knew you were on the scene in IRELAND in the 1960s Steve.
Nowadays you can turn up at a session with a backing tracks machine and maybe be ok. As late as 1978 on a visit back to Belfast with a Manchester friend who was absolutely brilliant on the RECORDER, brought much of the same puzzlement, merriment, and sniggering.
"Diffidence" at sessions is a recent invention by traditional snobs and false purists who are usually outsiders, often playing non traditional "funny" instruments. They don't really understand the true tradition, which is really "anything goes" but nowadays they and their "funny" instruments will be accepted.
In recent weeks I have witnessed two great rows which nearly descended into mass brawls at well established sessions featuring a number of very well known musicians who are held in high esteem. The first instance was when a regular visitor from Oz, a local originally, asked for a loan of someones guitar and was refused. This resulted in "Is this a session, do ye not know what a session is where ALL are welcome and you share?" The visitor is steeped in the tradition and has been playing for some 40 years, the guitar player who said no has only been about for say 5 years.
The second occasion was the same, this time a well known player wanted to borrow a drum.
Maybe, just maybe Steve, they have different attitudes as to what a session is in different parts of the world.
My misfortune all those years ago was to run into the only bunch of "purists" who were operating in Belfast. A few years later I discovered that they were the subject of ridicule for having "rules" at sessions. The history of what a ceilidh or session was is illuminating, before that tradition emigrated to public houses in England and now thankfully all over the world.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
Diffidence means you don't go swanning in thinking you're the dog's dangly bits. I'm talking about hovering on the margins for a bit, getting the feel and not just butting in in breach of whatever the protocol is (and which you know nothing of). That is how you get to play a little and not get laughed at, and get to play a bit more next time. Maybe you fooled around a bit too much or something, but getting laughed at, even once I've produced my harps, is not something that has ever happened to me, not once. There's nothing snobby about diffidence. It's how you get to join in and eventually get welcomed. Outcomes, dear boy, outcomes. And sessions are not "the tradition." Second time I've said that.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
And sessions are not "the tradition." Second time I've said that.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Steve Shaw
In Ireland the tradition was ceilidh. Everyone was encouraged to join in and participate.That grew into a session at a venue, instead of the house.
In England......in my day which was late on I admit (1970s) you had sessions, in pubs.
As for protocol.......a type of car? (-)
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
Still no smiley.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
Diffidence means you don't go swanning in thinking you're the dog's dangly bits. I'm talking about hovering on the margins for a bit, getting the feel and not just butting in in breach of whatever the protocol is (and which you know nothing of). That is how you get to play a little and not get laughed at, and get to play a bit more next time.
# Posted on December 16th 2010 by Steve Shaw
That's what I tell Molloy.
But he owns the place so can do what he likes.
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
Vive le diffidence, say I.
What you describe as diffidence seems to me ordinary politeness - you wouldn't just sit down at someone's table and join in their conversation, not knowing them, would you? Why is it different if the conversation is a musical one?
A session is a sociable event, centered on music. Ordinary courtesy will get you a long way.
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
Vive le diffidence, say I.
What you describe as diffidence seems to me ordinary politeness - you wouldn't just sit down at someone's table and join in their conversation, not knowing them, would you?
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
I would indeed because I am Irish. that's what we do.
I have no idea what other cultures do.
And that is why at an IRISH session, anything goes.
Now you could be pedantic and ask if that includes throwing beer over people or mass riots but that would be being really, really silly.
I am five seven, weighing 130 pounds, aged 57 and unmarked.
How do you think I managed that? (-)
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Easy, you're small, wiry, & slippery.
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Harmonica Question
I would have used diffidence to for the 'keep the whistle up your sleeve till you have sussed the situation' behaviour as well. But I just checked the dictionary and its seems Jon is right that it is wrong. Funny what one learns on the yellow board.
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by David50
Re: Harmonica Question
I hope I didn't say that diffidence is the wrong word. I only meant thatin this case it turns out to be a form of politeness.
(I probably think far too much about politeness, but it's fascinating stuff. There's no end to what you can learn about people by understanding how to be polite to them, and there's no end to the good will that simple courtesy can generate.)
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
In brief (snipped from OED) diffident: modest or shy because of a lack of self-confidence....... From Latin diffident-, diffidere 'fail to trust'.
Not quite what Steve meant I think. But its a word I have used as he did. One can be self-confident but still not barge in without watching and thinking. But yes, a form of politeness.
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by David50
Re: Harmonica Question
Trumped, I am. I always used it in the sense that I think Steve meant, without the connotations of lack of confidence, but you're right - in that sense it's not exactly the right word.
What about "reticent"? No, turns out that's not exactly the word we're looking for, either. "Not saying all one knows or thinks; silent or tacitun".
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
I had thought of 'reserved' but that's almost the same as 'reticent'.
The dictionary could be wrong of course and the word have recently moved away from is etymology.
# Posted on December 17th 2010 by David50
Re: Harmonica Question
Jaysus wept.
I mean that you approach a new situation with honesty, modesty, unforcedness, circumspection. You don't know the local protocol, so you hover round the edge for a bit until you suss it out. You let it be known, with due modesty, that you play an instrument, and you hope to offered the chance to have a go. In other words, you approach a new session with due diffidence. Not arrogance, not know-it-all and, by the living 'arry, we've all seen that haven't we. It ain't your gig, no matter how good you think you are, so you have to set the scene yourself to get yourself invited to have a go. I don't care whether you call it diffidence or what. The point is that it works better than any other way I've seen. There's an extra dimension to the potential resistance you'll meet if you play a non-mainstream instrument. You just have to show, by diffidence, modesty and good taste, that you're worth being offered a chance to play. That's it.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
Yes. You exhibit politeness, in other words.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Harmonica Question
One man's ceiling is another man's floor.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: Harmonica Question
No, not in other words at all. I can choose my own words. If you want to play in someone else's session you have to do a bit more than be polite. You have to have a strategy. Now I think I've made it as clear as possible what my personal strategy would be (has been - and it worked for me). I don't care if you call it politeness, diffidence or Jake the Peg, to be honest. This website is not supposed to be about showing how clever one is with words, as far as I know.
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Harmonica Question
Calm down Steve. So far as I was concerned I knew exactly what you meant and have used the same word for the same thing myself. Its just that I was surprised to find that the dictionary said different. I checked the two-volume SOED, and unlike other words that are squabbled about here there is no hint of 'our' usage. Bliss seems to agree with our usage (on the other thread).
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by David50
Re: Harmonica Question
Well, you carry on arguing the fine points of a bloody word. I can't be arsed any more. I'll ignore you from now on and try to stay on topic. I'm so pleased you know exactly what I meant. it wasn't hard, was it?
# Posted on December 18th 2010 by Steve Shaw