Hello all, cam across this site when looking for bodhran advice.
So, I'm getting my first bodhran this Christmas, I've never played one before, well not properly, but I really just love the sound and would love to be able to play myself.
I was thinking about getting a Malachy Kearns one, just as a starter, but I've heard they're not as good as he makes out, is this true?
What kind of bodhran would you recommend as a starter?
Boys, boys! The season of goodwill is almost upon us.
Storm is going to get a bodhran, and a little guidance for the future may benefit mankind in general, and a session near you in particular.
Be aware, you are on very dangerous ground here. There are people on this forum who would string you up to the nearest coathook for uttering the "b" word......
Why ? Because it's arguably not a musical instrument.
Because a badly played one ( ie, owned by someone who has been playing it for less than a year ) can ruin a session more quickly than a bad barrel of beer.
Some people practice at home for five years or more before they dare take their fiddle, whistle, flute, banjo, whatever, to a session for the first time.
Do you have that degree of self-control and respect for the other musicians already playing the music ?
Ask not what the session can do for you, ask what you can do for the session............stay away would be my advice.
Only bring your b.....n out at home, in the company of family and close friends.
ahh, another day, another thread where people can poke fun at bodhran players!!!!
Storm, my advice to you is buy the biggest bodhran you see, take it to a session and batter the absolute life out of it!!!
yes storm, Steve is quite rightIts very generous of him inviting you to his session Its in Kernow in Cornwall, be sure to bring all your mates. Steves a very welcoming chap.... LOL
If you dont like bodhrans wouldnt it be fairly good manners to not post and interfere with those that have an interest. It would be interesting if the same discipline was used against the haters of this ancient traditional instrument as is used against the knowledgable and interesting members currently barred from posting. As one who is just back from a short spell in the sin bin, where I experienced a rebirth and with the help of yoga and deep inner reflection and an overwhelming surge of joy and love towards all here,I am happy to report that you will notice my new tolerance and respect towards my fellow members.
Did I say anything wrong ?
All my statements are qualified; " ....there are people..... "
" .....arguably.... "
"Some people practice at home...."
It al seems quite reasonable to me.
Of course, if our OP can find a beginners session, or a tutor, then things might improve.
However, how many of us have suffered at the hands of people who did not take those steps, but just ploughed in regardless ?
The bodhran moron is still lurking about, waiting to jump in at any available opportunity.
Keep calm and carry on.
Be aware, you are on very dangerous ground here. There are people on this forum who would string you up to the nearest coathook for uttering the "b" word......
Why ? Because it's arguably not a musical instrument.
Because a badly played one ( ie, owned by someone who has been playing it for less than a year ) can ruin a session more quickly than a bad barrel of beer.
Some people practice at home for five years or more before they dare take their fiddle, whistle, flute, banjo, whatever, to a session for the first time.
Do you have that degree of self-control and respect for the other musicians already playing the music ?
Ask not what the session can do for you, ask what you can do for the session............stay away would be my advice.
Only bring your b.....n out at home, in the company of family and close friends.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: First Bodhran.
Why cant you let those who love the music produced by the bodhran be to discuss their interest without referring to those inept players who interest nobody?
no I dont think so Pete, I thought most your post contained helpfull advice that I would back up. Though as you say, different sessions have different degrees of acceptance of newbies on whatever instrument.
But as it to being arguably not a musical instrument, I dont believe that is the case at all. I mean people can argue the banjo isnt, the fiddle isnt and IMO there arguments would have the same validity as arguing that the drum isnt.
ie none.
Its just factually incorrect. It is a member of the membranophone family. with modes of vibration, overtones etc etc etc.
That would be just dandy, tabbo, if you practised what you preach. You're not exactly over the moon about harmonica players, are you, and I don't recall your holding back on saying so.
Incidentally, jig, far be it from me to correct you (I know what you can be like when people try to do that), but your saying "Kernow in Cornwall" is like my saying "Clare in Clare."
I have mentioned over and over how much I love the harmonica. I have specifically mentioned Eddie Clarke, John Gavin as among my favourite musicians on any instrument.
Storm2811, If you are like me, you should buy a cheap drum with a nice design painted on it, suitable for hanging on a wall. In my youthful ignorance, that is what I bought, but after thumping around for a while, I decided that it was pretty boring, so I moved on to other instruments. But like I said, it all worked out in the end, as I was left with a nice wall hanging!
But who knows, maybe you will enjoy it more than I did, and will want a better drum. Unfortunately, as you can see, many folks around here aren't exactly full of advice on how to succeed on the instrument, only how to avoid it!
Good luck!
Not to interrupt the fun, but Storm, you may not be aware that there are two quite divergent streams of thought on bodhran playing, which at this point require quite different instruments and techniques.
For the more "traditional" style - traditions develop fast in this music, the bodhran is quite new in the music - you're going to be using a larger-diameter drum with a shallower construction and one or two cross-bars. In the more modern style (which I find atrocious, I should mention) the goal sems to wallop the hell out of the tune, and to keep the beat by hitting the drum as often as possible, so one can claim that one has in fact hit all of the important beats. Partisans of this style might describe it differently, that's their privilege, and I promise you I'll only make small fun of you if you turn out to be of that school - as long as you put up your drum while you're in Boston.
For the modern style, you'll want a smaller drum - maybe 15" across instead of 18" with a much deeper rim and no crossbars.
If you name a few drummers that you like, or try to talk a little about the style that you'd like to play in, you might get better and more specific advice in between the wisecracks and tab's love letters to Steve.
I'm fairly alone in this view, but for the traditional style, I have found that any drum, as long as it's a reasonably thick animal skin on a wooden frame of about 18" diameter with two crossbars, is suited to playing the music. I see no need for tuning mechanisms or fancy woods or exotic animal hides - a $40 Pakistani drum served me well as a gigging musician for years, and is still in good shape on a friend's wall in Portland.
I think you'd do best to get a cheap and effective drum and a couple of beaters, and use the money you save to buy a tin whistle and a few pints for someone at the nearest session so you can pick their brain about playing the tunes and maybe get some ideas from them.
Maybe this'll spark some more serious responses from others, maybe not. Anyway, that's what I think about the matter. Good luck. Keep your sense of humor, you'll need it.
It should be noted that Storm has made no mention of attending sessions, or even appearing in public.
The point has surely been made of what awaits the exposed bodhran player, but playing along with recordings at home ought not to offend anyone outside of the immediate neighbourhood.
Storm, do take note of the positive suggestions made concerning drums and their successors/alternatives by the ever wise and temperate Al Brown and Jon Kiparsky.
Oh wow... this isn't a very helpfull conversation, is it? My advice would be to ignore the troublemakers and get a good quality (but cheap) bodhran till you get the feel of it.
Okay then, assuming you are not a troll (which I doubt) here is my serious advice: asking which is the best type of drum is like a dancer asking which is the best type of floor. Obviously there are no-nos, but in the main anything you can hit will suffice.
I echo Jon Kiparsky's sentiment, and myself prefer the old-style shallow rim thick-skinned drum. If you want to know what to play, listen to dancers, not drummers. Listen to their feet, and mimic the sounds, rhythms, feel, swing and dynamics.
Avoid booming, sweeping bass notes which penetrate and obfuscate, and keep away from the rim, which usually goes off like a pistol shot.
Don't send yourself into a drummer's trance, head wobbling, eyes closed: stay alert, alive and intent - and above all -- listen. Not only listen, but hear.
OK, let's try another tack ( incidentally, I like Gam's last reply immediately above );
Irish Traditional Music is essentially a melodic tradition, the subtle and complex rhythms hinted at by the skill of the individual performer as they accent the individual notes within each bar.
More recent additions and changes to the style of playing by accompaniment, someone 'driving the piano', the guitar, the bodhran, are all essentially post-WWII changes brought in through the developing session styles in the UK and elsewhere.
Despite attempts by linguists and others there is no comprehensive evidence to any long-term use of the bodhran; all early pictorial evidence points to the use of a large TAMBOURINE as a rhythmic accompaniment. Anyone fancy adding some jingles to their bodhran, in an attempt to aid authenticity ?
Sean O'Riada is the man responsible for bringing a large frame-drum into ITM.
Would anyone care to argue too much with the above statements ?
Incidentally, I have two bodhrans at home hanging on the wall over a portrait of Byron ( It's a long story, don't ask ). We take one of them to sessions, and play it intermittently when we don't know a tune being played ( oh, I know that's wrong, we should only play to tunes we know. But we're perverse. )
That really is the best place to visit for advice.
Most people on this site (with one or two notable exceptions) don't, can't or won't play the instrument and have only limited experience of it.
Many here have been plagued with the appearance of crap bodhran players at their sessions and unfortunately tar all bodhran players with the same brush.
Remember it's the same with all instruments - they only become musical when they are played musically.
There are also those of us who can play it (or could play it) and who don't. I love to hear good bodhran playing in a band or on peoples' recordings. I just never want it in a session I'm involved in. But that's me.
Note to the original poster: With regard to the distinction between traditional and modern styles, bodojo is pretty firmly committed to the modern style - playing a lot of thwacks at a go, with an attempt to "play the tune" in the sense of actually playing the melody instead of "playing the tune" in the sense of supporting the rhythm.
If you want to play the modern style, bodojo would be a very useful site indeed. If you want to play a traditional style, however, you'll find it has little to offer.
Gran Cassa might know more than I do about the members of this site and their abilities, but I've found that it's usually not a good idea to underestimate the musicians here. I suspect that more of them know their way around a bodhran than are letting on. Slagging the bodhran is a grand tradition in the music, and we all have a go at it, even those of us who know how to play it pretty well.
After all, being able to play it pretty well is not difficult, once you already know how to play the tunes.
That last sentence, if you like, is a hint.
Wow,people don't really like bodhrans much do they?Haha!
Well I won't be going to sessions first of all, I'll probably just be playing it as a hobby,something at home to do..Is it hard to learn?
I have a budget of around €60-80 to spend on one, as I'm just getting a starter one I won't be spending much in case I don't take to it or get fed up with it, but I still want to get a good enough one.
Thanks for all the advice and the p*ss takers, you still made me laugh!
You might think it's all p*ss-taking, and some of it is, but don't underestimate the serious undercurrent beneath all the slagging and ribbing, most of which comes from bitter experience of ubiquitous lousy bodhran owners.
It is not hard to learn. As Seamus Ennis said, first you must learn the grip.
Actually, I suspect that what people mind most is the bodhran player who comes in and makes a lot of racket and makes it difficult to play the tunes. If what you're doing suits what the session is doing, you're probably only going to get the ritual flack.
However, once you've learned your way around the thing, don't be surprised if you get the idea to learn to play some other instrument. If you learn it properly, you'll find it leaves you wanting to play more.
Well, as a bodhran player first, that moved on to melody instruments, I can echo Jon Kiparsky's comment. (My melody playing is nowhere near session ready however).
WRT Malachi Kearns drums, you can get a good one, but you are taking a lottery buying one.
A tip - measure from the bend of your elbow to the tips of your fingers, there is no real point getting a drum whose diameter is greater than this.
Yes, develop a thick skin, and if you haven't got one yet, sling one across your shoulder and bring it with you.
I bet none of you guys play golf. Do you.
It is intriguing why someone wants to play bodhran outside of the music. Two questions: Why do you want to play it (just out of interest); and 2. What music are you going to play along with (if any?).
Tip: I would hold the tipper like a pencil (or pen), you aren't going to sign the skin, and I think you could get rsi if you play it like that. Get some grip lessons first.
Well I just really like the bodhran, the sound of it and the way it's played, when played well and would like to try it myself.
Yeah as I can see bodhran players get a bit of a slagging but I don't mind, I won't be playing it professionally or anything, just as a hobby, I just find it interesting.
Yeah I was looking at tutorials on youtube and they all said to hold it like a pencil but I find that kinda hard, is there a certain way you should hold it or just any way that suits you?
Storm - Whatever bodhran you get - start by learning to play quietly.
Continue by listening to as much live traditional music as you can, with and without bodhran players, but without your own bodhran.
Play along to CDs or with friends at home until you feel confident.
AS for holding the tipper, it varies. I'd suggest start with a pencil hold, then put the middle finger around the stick.
There are some very good tuition videos accessible from bodojo.com.
Good luck!
(All of this assumes you have a good sense of rhythm. If you can't dance, or tap your feet in time to music, STOP NOW!!))
Seriously, it's a fine instrument, but to play it well enough for a session I'd say you first have to learn it, and then you have to learn how to fit in with the other musicians. You'll get lots of advice about how to do that -- things like "learn the tunes themselves" -- all good advice.
But to me, as a fiddle player, the most important thing is that the drumming "fit me like a glove," if you will. I don't want to be pulled or tugged in any direction, and I don't want the drummer to think that he or she is setting the tempo, as a regular drummer might do.
I think that's the trickiest part -- sensing where the melody players want to go and supporting them. Sometimes it means adjusting to their tempo, and another time it might mean keeping a beat steady so they can work around it. Very tricky.
And don't think you have to play on everything. Much better to back off and listen -- you'll get a better sense of where and the drum might fit in.
With regard to 'holding it like a pencil', of course it depends on how you hold a pencil. Try holding it like a dart, but don't throw it -- it won't stick in.
Guernsey Pete said: "Sean O'Riada is the man responsible for bringing a large frame-drum into ITM.
Would anyone care to argue too much with the above statements ?"
I seem to remember a photo of Irish musicians in New York in the 30s or 40s where one fellow was holding what looked very much much like a bodhran. Unless it was a circular tin tray and he'd just been to the bar to get drinks for the band?
"Note to the original poster: With regard to the distinction between traditional and modern styles, bodojo is pretty firmly committed to the modern style - playing a lot of thwacks at a go, with an attempt to "play the tune" in the sense of actually playing the melody instead of "playing the tune" in the sense of supporting the rhythm."
This is incorrect, Bodojo does not promote or hold any one style of playing over another. there are perhaps a large number of discussion threads that relate to modern playing styles but that in itself only illustrates particular forum members interests in learning to play a particular way, and current trends, not, that the site or its administrators have a preference for one style over another.
I've asked around and some of the advice I've heard is:
Get an inexpensive, tunable bodhran, and the crossbars are not really functional and mostly get in the way.
If you really like playing and get good, then you save up and get a good, professionally made bodhran.
Good session ettiquette for bodhrans:
Learn the tunes, just like melody players, if you don't know the tune, don't play.
Despite the reputation and attitude of many, there is nothing simple about playing the bodhran. At least, not for playing the bodhran WELL.
Louder is not better. Timing, rhythm, and subtlety are key. Just because drums are not melodic, doesn't mean they cannot be musical.
Limit to playing one drum at a time per tune. There are few exceptions, but this involves playing quietly, or having the common sense to know the right time and place for that sort of thing.
/not a bodhran player, just lucky enough to have known and seen several excellent bodhran players.
Y'know, thinking about the above post (which is all eminently sensible), I think my biggest gripe, apart from players not knowing one tune rhythm from another, is with loudness. I don't know what it is with some people, but they seem to think they're leading the charge of Zulus at Rorke's Drift, not accompanying gentle, unamplified melody instruments. To suggest another rule, you could say it's fine to drop in and out of sets instead of bashing away relentlessly through the whole thing, and it's also fine to not play on some sets even when you can.
>>Louder is not better. Timing, rhythm, and subtlety are key. Just because drums are not melodic, doesn't mean they cannot be musical.
Totally agree. Having bought a Lightline modern-style drum, a small part of me regrets it as I didn't realise just how different the two types are.
On the other hand, maybe the one has more to take from the other than is apparent. I have found that using a (modern) brush tipper makes it much easier to play subtle rhythms and keep it all to a more suitably low volume. The brush 'wants' to play conga-style syncopations, but it can be made to beat out more traditional rhythms.
Call Mulroy Music on 00353749163329 or email sales@mulroymusic.ie wher chap there will give you solid advice and wont rip you of. Even if he hasnt got what you need he will tell you where to get it
Do you have chapter and verse on the old photo, Jim ?
I'm just flying a kite over my statements - I knew someone would have something to disprove me with. On the other hand, I gather the proto-Chieftains weren't well pleased when this guy was brought along for their first recording session with a large tambourine under his arm, and had to be persuaded to tape up the jingles. It wasn't something THEY were familiar with.
Also, like all cultural traditions, they are not homogenous, no doubt some people, some areas, were more familiar with a frame drum than others
First Bodhran.
First Bodhran.
Hello all, cam across this site when looking for bodhran advice.
So, I'm getting my first bodhran this Christmas, I've never played one before, well not properly, but I really just love the sound and would love to be able to play myself.
I was thinking about getting a Malachy Kearns one, just as a starter, but I've heard they're not as good as he makes out, is this true?
What kind of bodhran would you recommend as a starter?
Thanks in advance.
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by storm2811
Re: First Bodhran.
"... well not properly"
Join the hordes! You'll fit in straight away!
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: First Bodhran.
...and they're off!!
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by Mark Harmer
Re: First Bodhran.
Art bodhrans...they can decapitate the banjo player from 200 yards...
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by mickyfong
Re: First Bodhran.
Learn the chunes first, then quit.
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by Stevie C
Re: First Bodhran.
buy one of seamus o'kane's bodhran. he makes excellent bodhrans for moderate price.
marin
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by maracirac
Re: First Bodhran.
...Better than Frisbee's.
# Posted on November 29th 2010 by gam
Re: First Bodhran.
Boys, boys! The season of goodwill is almost upon us.
Storm is going to get a bodhran, and a little guidance for the future may benefit mankind in general, and a session near you in particular.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: First Bodhran.
Be aware, you are on very dangerous ground here. There are people on this forum who would string you up to the nearest coathook for uttering the "b" word......
Why ? Because it's arguably not a musical instrument.
Because a badly played one ( ie, owned by someone who has been playing it for less than a year ) can ruin a session more quickly than a bad barrel of beer.
Some people practice at home for five years or more before they dare take their fiddle, whistle, flute, banjo, whatever, to a session for the first time.
Do you have that degree of self-control and respect for the other musicians already playing the music ?
Ask not what the session can do for you, ask what you can do for the session............stay away would be my advice.
Only bring your b.....n out at home, in the company of family and close friends.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: First Bodhran.
Was I too harsh ?
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: First Bodhran.
ahh, another day, another thread where people can poke fun at bodhran players!!!!
Storm, my advice to you is buy the biggest bodhran you see, take it to a session and batter the absolute life out of it!!!
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by banjo'd
Re: First Bodhran.
yes.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by mcknowall
Re: First Bodhran.
yes storm, Steve is quite rightIts very generous of him inviting you to his session Its in Kernow in Cornwall, be sure to bring all your mates. Steves a very welcoming chap....
LOL
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: First Bodhran.
If you dont like bodhrans wouldnt it be fairly good manners to not post and interfere with those that have an interest. It would be interesting if the same discipline was used against the haters of this ancient traditional instrument as is used against the knowledgable and interesting members currently barred from posting. As one who is just back from a short spell in the sin bin, where I experienced a rebirth and with the help of yoga and deep inner reflection and an overwhelming surge of joy and love towards all here,I am happy to report that you will notice my new tolerance and respect towards my fellow members.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by big_tab
Re: First Bodhran.
LOL , welcome back tabber. Bodhrán Abu !!
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: First Bodhran.
I am not saying Bodhran abú. I am saying that there should be the same respect towards all instruments and all musicians no matter what they play.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by big_tab
Re: First Bodhran.
I know, but I am. anyhow I agree, respect for all.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: First Bodhran.
Did I say anything wrong ?
All my statements are qualified; " ....there are people..... "
" .....arguably.... "
"Some people practice at home...."
It al seems quite reasonable to me.
Of course, if our OP can find a beginners session, or a tutor, then things might improve.
However, how many of us have suffered at the hands of people who did not take those steps, but just ploughed in regardless ?
The bodhran moron is still lurking about, waiting to jump in at any available opportunity.
Keep calm and carry on.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: First Bodhran.
Be aware, you are on very dangerous ground here. There are people on this forum who would string you up to the nearest coathook for uttering the "b" word......
Why ? Because it's arguably not a musical instrument.
Because a badly played one ( ie, owned by someone who has been playing it for less than a year ) can ruin a session more quickly than a bad barrel of beer.
Some people practice at home for five years or more before they dare take their fiddle, whistle, flute, banjo, whatever, to a session for the first time.
Do you have that degree of self-control and respect for the other musicians already playing the music ?
Ask not what the session can do for you, ask what you can do for the session............stay away would be my advice.
Only bring your b.....n out at home, in the company of family and close friends.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: First Bodhran.
Was I too harsh ?
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
On slow learners on other instruments?
Yes, a trifle harsh.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: First Bodhran.
Why cant you let those who love the music produced by the bodhran be to discuss their interest without referring to those inept players who interest nobody?
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by big_tab
Re: First Bodhran.
Finally, could i suggest you spend £120 or £140 and buy an eamon Maguire drum.
You will not get better.
You could pay £50 for a starter but why not buy the best as drums are relatively cheap.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by bodhran bliss
Re: First Bodhran.
no I dont think so Pete, I thought most your post contained helpfull advice that I would back up. Though as you say, different sessions have different degrees of acceptance of newbies on whatever instrument.
But as it to being arguably not a musical instrument, I dont believe that is the case at all. I mean people can argue the banjo isnt, the fiddle isnt and IMO there arguments would have the same validity as arguing that the drum isnt.
ie none.
Its just factually incorrect. It is a member of the membranophone family. with modes of vibration, overtones etc etc etc.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: First Bodhran.
That would be just dandy, tabbo, if you practised what you preach. You're not exactly over the moon about harmonica players, are you, and I don't recall your holding back on saying so.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: First Bodhran.
Incidentally, jig, far be it from me to correct you (I know what you can be like when people try to do that), but your saying "Kernow in Cornwall" is like my saying "Clare in Clare."
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: First Bodhran.
I have mentioned over and over how much I love the harmonica. I have specifically mentioned Eddie Clarke, John Gavin as among my favourite musicians on any instrument.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by big_tab
Re: First Bodhran.
Storm2811, If you are like me, you should buy a cheap drum with a nice design painted on it, suitable for hanging on a wall. In my youthful ignorance, that is what I bought, but after thumping around for a while, I decided that it was pretty boring, so I moved on to other instruments. But like I said, it all worked out in the end, as I was left with a nice wall hanging!
But who knows, maybe you will enjoy it more than I did, and will want a better drum. Unfortunately, as you can see, many folks around here aren't exactly full of advice on how to succeed on the instrument, only how to avoid it!
Good luck!
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: First Bodhran.
Not to interrupt the fun, but Storm, you may not be aware that there are two quite divergent streams of thought on bodhran playing, which at this point require quite different instruments and techniques.
For the more "traditional" style - traditions develop fast in this music, the bodhran is quite new in the music - you're going to be using a larger-diameter drum with a shallower construction and one or two cross-bars. In the more modern style (which I find atrocious, I should mention) the goal sems to wallop the hell out of the tune, and to keep the beat by hitting the drum as often as possible, so one can claim that one has in fact hit all of the important beats. Partisans of this style might describe it differently, that's their privilege, and I promise you I'll only make small fun of you if you turn out to be of that school - as long as you put up your drum while you're in Boston.
For the modern style, you'll want a smaller drum - maybe 15" across instead of 18" with a much deeper rim and no crossbars.
If you name a few drummers that you like, or try to talk a little about the style that you'd like to play in, you might get better and more specific advice in between the wisecracks and tab's love letters to Steve.
I'm fairly alone in this view, but for the traditional style, I have found that any drum, as long as it's a reasonably thick animal skin on a wooden frame of about 18" diameter with two crossbars, is suited to playing the music. I see no need for tuning mechanisms or fancy woods or exotic animal hides - a $40 Pakistani drum served me well as a gigging musician for years, and is still in good shape on a friend's wall in Portland.
I think you'd do best to get a cheap and effective drum and a couple of beaters, and use the money you save to buy a tin whistle and a few pints for someone at the nearest session so you can pick their brain about playing the tunes and maybe get some ideas from them.
Maybe this'll spark some more serious responses from others, maybe not. Anyway, that's what I think about the matter. Good luck. Keep your sense of humor, you'll need it.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: First Bodhran.
It should be noted that Storm has made no mention of attending sessions, or even appearing in public.
The point has surely been made of what awaits the exposed bodhran player, but playing along with recordings at home ought not to offend anyone outside of the immediate neighbourhood.
Storm, do take note of the positive suggestions made concerning drums and their successors/alternatives by the ever wise and temperate Al Brown and Jon Kiparsky.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: First Bodhran.
Oh wow... this isn't a very helpfull conversation, is it? My advice would be to ignore the troublemakers and get a good quality (but cheap) bodhran till you get the feel of it.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by elewis154
Re: First Bodhran.
Good advice oldstrings. The best sessions always have musicians who are both wise & temperate.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: First Bodhran.
But if anyone feels like reading The Classics over these long winter evenings...
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/11933/comments#comment243342
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: First Bodhran.
Not only the longest bodhran thread, but the longest thread ever on these Hallowed Pages of Yellow, with 995 replies, at last count.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: First Bodhran.
Just hold your drum, look serious and nod your head to the music.
Do not play the drum. You'll do really well in a session this way.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Hup
Re: First Bodhran.
Okay then, assuming you are not a troll (which I doubt) here is my serious advice: asking which is the best type of drum is like a dancer asking which is the best type of floor. Obviously there are no-nos, but in the main anything you can hit will suffice.
I echo Jon Kiparsky's sentiment, and myself prefer the old-style shallow rim thick-skinned drum. If you want to know what to play, listen to dancers, not drummers. Listen to their feet, and mimic the sounds, rhythms, feel, swing and dynamics.
Avoid booming, sweeping bass notes which penetrate and obfuscate, and keep away from the rim, which usually goes off like a pistol shot.
Don't send yourself into a drummer's trance, head wobbling, eyes closed: stay alert, alive and intent - and above all -- listen. Not only listen, but hear.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by gam
Re: First Bodhran.
OK, let's try another tack ( incidentally, I like Gam's last reply immediately above );
Irish Traditional Music is essentially a melodic tradition, the subtle and complex rhythms hinted at by the skill of the individual performer as they accent the individual notes within each bar.
More recent additions and changes to the style of playing by accompaniment, someone 'driving the piano', the guitar, the bodhran, are all essentially post-WWII changes brought in through the developing session styles in the UK and elsewhere.
Despite attempts by linguists and others there is no comprehensive evidence to any long-term use of the bodhran; all early pictorial evidence points to the use of a large TAMBOURINE as a rhythmic accompaniment. Anyone fancy adding some jingles to their bodhran, in an attempt to aid authenticity ?
Sean O'Riada is the man responsible for bringing a large frame-drum into ITM.
Would anyone care to argue too much with the above statements ?
Incidentally, I have two bodhrans at home hanging on the wall over a portrait of Byron ( It's a long story, don't ask ). We take one of them to sessions, and play it intermittently when we don't know a tune being played ( oh, I know that's wrong, we should only play to tunes we know. But we're perverse. )
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: First Bodhran.
Storm,
Look up
http://www.bodojo.com/
That really is the best place to visit for advice.
Most people on this site (with one or two notable exceptions) don't, can't or won't play the instrument and have only limited experience of it.
Many here have been plagued with the appearance of crap bodhran players at their sessions and unfortunately tar all bodhran players with the same brush.
Remember it's the same with all instruments - they only become musical when they are played musically.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Gran Cassa
Re: First Bodhran.
There are also those of us who can play it (or could play it) and who don't. I love to hear good bodhran playing in a band or on peoples' recordings. I just never want it in a session I'm involved in. But that's me.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: First Bodhran.
No bodhrans for me, please.
I would rather be a musician.
(Or at least a drummer.)
Cheers, all.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Piece
Re: First Bodhran.
Note to the original poster: With regard to the distinction between traditional and modern styles, bodojo is pretty firmly committed to the modern style - playing a lot of thwacks at a go, with an attempt to "play the tune" in the sense of actually playing the melody instead of "playing the tune" in the sense of supporting the rhythm.
If you want to play the modern style, bodojo would be a very useful site indeed. If you want to play a traditional style, however, you'll find it has little to offer.
Gran Cassa might know more than I do about the members of this site and their abilities, but I've found that it's usually not a good idea to underestimate the musicians here. I suspect that more of them know their way around a bodhran than are letting on. Slagging the bodhran is a grand tradition in the music, and we all have a go at it, even those of us who know how to play it pretty well.
After all, being able to play it pretty well is not difficult, once you already know how to play the tunes.
That last sentence, if you like, is a hint.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: First Bodhran.
Wow,people don't really like bodhrans much do they?Haha!
Well I won't be going to sessions first of all, I'll probably just be playing it as a hobby,something at home to do..Is it hard to learn?
I have a budget of around €60-80 to spend on one, as I'm just getting a starter one I won't be spending much in case I don't take to it or get fed up with it, but I still want to get a good enough one.
Thanks for all the advice and the p*ss takers, you still made me laugh!
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by storm2811
Re: First Bodhran.
You might think it's all p*ss-taking, and some of it is, but don't underestimate the serious undercurrent beneath all the slagging and ribbing, most of which comes from bitter experience of ubiquitous lousy bodhran owners.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: First Bodhran.
It is not hard to learn. As Seamus Ennis said, first you must learn the grip.
Actually, I suspect that what people mind most is the bodhran player who comes in and makes a lot of racket and makes it difficult to play the tunes. If what you're doing suits what the session is doing, you're probably only going to get the ritual flack.
However, once you've learned your way around the thing, don't be surprised if you get the idea to learn to play some other instrument. If you learn it properly, you'll find it leaves you wanting to play more.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: First Bodhran.
Cross-posted. Notice:
"most of which comes from bitter experience of ubiquitous lousy bodhran owners"
and
"what people mind most is the bodhran player who comes in and makes a lot of racket and makes it difficult to play the tunes."
I think we're meaning something very similar here.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: First Bodhran.
I'm sure I once saw old footage of Seamus Ennis 'banging a bodhran' along with some musicians. Ye Gods......Just as well he could play the pipes.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Free Reed
Re: First Bodhran.
Well, as a bodhran player first, that moved on to melody instruments, I can echo Jon Kiparsky's comment. (My melody playing is nowhere near session ready however).
WRT Malachi Kearns drums, you can get a good one, but you are taking a lottery buying one.
A tip - measure from the bend of your elbow to the tips of your fingers, there is no real point getting a drum whose diameter is greater than this.
In your price range area, the closest thing that I would consider is this one.
http://cgi.ebay.ie/16-INCH-BODHRAN-HANDMADE-TUNABLE-CELTIC-GREEN-pbs16tg-/230546106278?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Drums_Percussions_MJ&hash=item35ad9e67a6
As said before, check out bodojo, you will not get the slagging that you will get here, but if you play bodhran, you need to develop a thick skin.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by BigDavy
Re: First Bodhran.
"A tip - measure from the bend of your elbow to the tips of your fingers, there is no real point getting a drum whose diameter is greater than this."
Once again, this is true for modern playing, not so for traditional playing.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: First Bodhran.
sage advice that was -
'get a grip.'
Yes, develop a thick skin, and if you haven't got one yet, sling one across your shoulder and bring it with you.
I bet none of you guys play golf. Do you.
It is intriguing why someone wants to play bodhran outside of the music. Two questions: Why do you want to play it (just out of interest); and 2. What music are you going to play along with (if any?).
Tip: I would hold the tipper like a pencil (or pen), you aren't going to sign the skin, and I think you could get rsi if you play it like that. Get some grip lessons first.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: First Bodhran.
"I would *not* hold the tipper as a pencil". *not*
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: First Bodhran.
Well I just really like the bodhran, the sound of it and the way it's played, when played well and would like to try it myself.
Yeah as I can see bodhran players get a bit of a slagging but I don't mind, I won't be playing it professionally or anything, just as a hobby, I just find it interesting.
Yeah I was looking at tutorials on youtube and they all said to hold it like a pencil but I find that kinda hard, is there a certain way you should hold it or just any way that suits you?
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by storm2811
Re: First Bodhran.
Storm - Whatever bodhran you get - start by learning to play quietly.
Continue by listening to as much live traditional music as you can, with and without bodhran players, but without your own bodhran.
Play along to CDs or with friends at home until you feel confident.
AS for holding the tipper, it varies. I'd suggest start with a pencil hold, then put the middle finger around the stick.
There are some very good tuition videos accessible from bodojo.com.
Good luck!
(All of this assumes you have a good sense of rhythm. If you can't dance, or tap your feet in time to music, STOP NOW!!))
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by RockyRoader
Re: First Bodhran.
Seriously, it's a fine instrument, but to play it well enough for a session I'd say you first have to learn it, and then you have to learn how to fit in with the other musicians. You'll get lots of advice about how to do that -- things like "learn the tunes themselves" -- all good advice.
But to me, as a fiddle player, the most important thing is that the drumming "fit me like a glove," if you will. I don't want to be pulled or tugged in any direction, and I don't want the drummer to think that he or she is setting the tempo, as a regular drummer might do.
I think that's the trickiest part -- sensing where the melody players want to go and supporting them. Sometimes it means adjusting to their tempo, and another time it might mean keeping a beat steady so they can work around it. Very tricky.
And don't think you have to play on everything. Much better to back off and listen -- you'll get a better sense of where and the drum might fit in.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Jmbu
Re: First Bodhran.
With regard to 'holding it like a pencil', of course it depends on how you hold a pencil. Try holding it like a dart, but don't throw it -- it won't stick in.
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by gam
Re: First Bodhran.
Guernsey Pete said: "Sean O'Riada is the man responsible for bringing a large frame-drum into ITM.
Would anyone care to argue too much with the above statements ?"
I seem to remember a photo of Irish musicians in New York in the 30s or 40s where one fellow was holding what looked very much much like a bodhran. Unless it was a circular tin tray and he'd just been to the bar to get drinks for the band?
# Posted on November 30th 2010 by Jim Younger
Re: First Bodhran.
"Note to the original poster: With regard to the distinction between traditional and modern styles, bodojo is pretty firmly committed to the modern style - playing a lot of thwacks at a go, with an attempt to "play the tune" in the sense of actually playing the melody instead of "playing the tune" in the sense of supporting the rhythm."
This is incorrect, Bodojo does not promote or hold any one style of playing over another. there are perhaps a large number of discussion threads that relate to modern playing styles but that in itself only illustrates particular forum members interests in learning to play a particular way, and current trends, not, that the site or its administrators have a preference for one style over another.
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by newdeafman
Re: First Bodhran.
I've asked around and some of the advice I've heard is:
Get an inexpensive, tunable bodhran, and the crossbars are not really functional and mostly get in the way.
If you really like playing and get good, then you save up and get a good, professionally made bodhran.
Good session ettiquette for bodhrans:
Learn the tunes, just like melody players, if you don't know the tune, don't play.
Despite the reputation and attitude of many, there is nothing simple about playing the bodhran. At least, not for playing the bodhran WELL.
Louder is not better. Timing, rhythm, and subtlety are key. Just because drums are not melodic, doesn't mean they cannot be musical.
Limit to playing one drum at a time per tune. There are few exceptions, but this involves playing quietly, or having the common sense to know the right time and place for that sort of thing.
/not a bodhran player, just lucky enough to have known and seen several excellent bodhran players.
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by banshee misfortune
Re: First Bodhran.
Well said VlaMike.
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by Gran Cassa
Re: First Bodhran.
Y'know, thinking about the above post (which is all eminently sensible), I think my biggest gripe, apart from players not knowing one tune rhythm from another, is with loudness. I don't know what it is with some people, but they seem to think they're leading the charge of Zulus at Rorke's Drift, not accompanying gentle, unamplified melody instruments. To suggest another rule, you could say it's fine to drop in and out of sets instead of bashing away relentlessly through the whole thing, and it's also fine to not play on some sets even when you can.
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: First Bodhran.
>>Louder is not better. Timing, rhythm, and subtlety are key. Just because drums are not melodic, doesn't mean they cannot be musical.
Totally agree. Having bought a Lightline modern-style drum, a small part of me regrets it as I didn't realise just how different the two types are.
On the other hand, maybe the one has more to take from the other than is apparent. I have found that using a (modern) brush tipper makes it much easier to play subtle rhythms and keep it all to a more suitably low volume. The brush 'wants' to play conga-style syncopations, but it can be made to beat out more traditional rhythms.
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by ian stock
Re: First Bodhran.
Thanks Gran. To be fair, most of it is me repeating what others have told me. That, and it seems I've had luck in meeting talented drummers.
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by banshee misfortune
Re: First Bodhran.
"Thanks Gran" - double take there! Last time I said that was when Gran gave me a stick of Blackpool rock in 1963...
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: First Bodhran.
Call Mulroy Music on 00353749163329 or email sales@mulroymusic.ie wher chap there will give you solid advice and wont rip you of. Even if he hasnt got what you need he will tell you where to get it
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by Patrick Mc
Re: First Bodhran.
Cheers VlaMike & others, great advice.
Patrick Mc : I'll give him a ring tomorrow, cheers.
# Posted on December 1st 2010 by storm2811
Re: First Bodhran.
Do you have chapter and verse on the old photo, Jim ?
I'm just flying a kite over my statements - I knew someone would have something to disprove me with. On the other hand, I gather the proto-Chieftains weren't well pleased when this guy was brought along for their first recording session with a large tambourine under his arm, and had to be persuaded to tape up the jingles. It wasn't something THEY were familiar with.
Also, like all cultural traditions, they are not homogenous, no doubt some people, some areas, were more familiar with a frame drum than others
# Posted on December 2nd 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: First Bodhran.
There should be bodran slow sessions where they all 'play' together. That would teach em.
# Posted on December 9th 2010 by Stevie C
B.
Curiosity got the better of me. I had to find out what happened between parts of Clare & Mustard.
I'm chortling in my joy!
~ for most of January ...
# Posted on December 27th 2010 by Ben Steen