Hi, I've been playing a Sam Murray semi-keyed flute (C natural, G sharp and F natural) for the past few years, never had any problems but now I find the G sharp key is sticking when I play it so that it doesn't go back to covert the hole afterwards, is there any type of oil I can use to treat it?
Thanks
I could be wrong but it may have come about by OVER-oiling. Almond oil (if that's what you use) can dissolve the glue which keeps the leather pad on, and then the pad will stick to the sides of the hole. You should protect the pads by cutting out little squares of plastic bag and placing them between the hole and the pad when oiling. You may now have get that key re-padded.
@ Rudall the time, Hi no it's def not from over-oiling, it's when I play the key it won't go back down, it's the key itself that is stiff, would putting almond oil on it work? I seem to remember this happened a few years ago but I can't remember how I fixed it then.
And @ ethical blend, how does one take the key off a flute please? Thanks to everyone.
I'm not intimately familiar with Sam Murray's flutes, but the keys must be put on in the standard way, I would think. Assuming the keys are block mounted (as opposed to metal posts) there should be a pin which runs through the post and holds the key on. You'll see the end of it sticking out of the block. Most people seem to be able to get these out with their fingers. I must admit, I need a pair of ground off parallel pliers, which work fine. Please don't use ordinary pliers on your flute - it will wreck it. If you can pull the pin out with your fingers, you're laughing, 'cos it's dead easy to put back afterwards and I bet it does just need a bit of a clean.
Jewellers' pliers also work, especially the ones with angled noses, if you don't want to grind down bigger ones, though I think mine are specialist woodwind repair tools. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but pull the pin out slowly over a piece of paper - I wasted a lot of time the other day scrabbling about on the floor for one that had pinged out because I was being insufficiently careful! I did find it.
A quick fix for silver flutes- we do this in band-not permanent- may work- take an old, worn dollar bill, put it under the key and close the key by pushing on it. Pull out the dollar bill while the key is still closed. The oils (and assorted grime) will "lubricate" the pad from under they key.
wright.rupert19, I wouldn't put a hairdryer anywhere near a woodwind instrument such as a flute, unless a serious maker says so and I would be very, very surprised if they did. A couple of days in a dry room is all it would take.
I play a sam with three keys like yours. I had a similar problem with the G key. I put a small drop of almond oil between the block and key, I repeatedly pressed the key for a few mins to let the oil work in. I haven't had any trouble with it since.
I wouldn't use almond oil as a lubricant because it goes sticky. You can buy key oil for woodwind instruments but it shouldn't really be necessary. Keep the flute somewhere warmish and dry for a few days and see if it helps, and in the meantime have a good look with a hand lens and a bright light and see if you can see where it is sticking. A good careful clean should do it, seeing as you've had no problem before now.
Yep. Jewellers' pliers = parallel pliers. Same thing. They're flat bladed in any case (assuming you get the right ones - Maun make some) but I'm so paranoid about flutes that I have 'em ground off in any case.
I'm having a similar problem, mainly on the long keys. It's not a problem at the level of the pads: the key lifts up no problem - it's coming back down that's the rub...
Suggestions? It seems to happen most in certain places - I'm not sure whether low or high humidity is to blame?
Long keys is probably a different problem. Either the guide channel may have swollen (again, assuming block mounted keys) or, more likely, the key has too much sideways play in it. I wouldn't be able to fix that myself, and would take it to a repairer.
The best lubricants I've found for keyed woodwind instruments (of which I have a lot) are the solutions or suspensions of dry lubricant used for high-tech cycling. Finish Line (teflon suspension) or Kry-Tech (paraffin solution) both work. You need very very little (one 2oz bottle is enough for a few thousand flutes).
Clean the machinery first, though - take the key apart and get any goo or corrosion out of the posts with a pipecleaner. I have done this with nstruments up to 100 years old and ranging from tenor recorders to saxophones. You will occasionally need WD-40 to get the pins or screws out, but it's unusual for an instrument less than 50 years old to be that stuck.
My experience with sticking keys on block mounted flutes is that the channel that holds the key needs cleaning. If oil has got in the track, it attracts grue and can get sticky. I just take the key off, use a soft folded cloth to clean out the tracks, and to clean the key where it lies in the track, and usually things are fine. I'm in the avoid oil camp. A little graphite lubricant is unlikely to harm, but I don't use anything.
I once had a key stick because a humidity change, but storage in the right conditions for a few days solved that. Wood swells when it's wet, shrinks when it's dry.
I've never had a key with too much sideways play. When long keys stick, cleaning the track has solve that. Once I found that a new to me flute had a previous owner who bent the little pin.
I agree heartily with the advice to keep your eye on the pin-once it bounces, the little bugs are hard to find.
I had the same problem with a Watson flute once, which is similar in many ways. The G# key is a bugger. I took it off, cleaned the key, spring, and block, and used a tiny, tiny bit of cork grease on the end of the spring that hits the wood. This reduced the friction and I never had another problem. Best of luck.
The usual problem with block-mounted keys is build-up of gunge, particularly if you oil the outside of the flute with a vegetable based oil.
Pull the pin and the key should pop out. A sharp knife under the bent-over part of the pin should get it moving. Mechanically clean out any gunge in the slot (a sharpened ice-cream stick is an effective and safe instrument), clean the pin and the pin hole and the metal striker plate that the tip of the spring presses on inside the slot (I can't remember if Sam uses the traditional lever springs, but I imagine he does). You might need a solvent like acetone on some rag on the end of the ice-cream stick to clean away the last of the old oil gunge. It may also take oil off the wood around it, but you can renew that with some oil on a rag, being careful not to run it into the slots.
Make sure the pin runs freely in the hole in the key before reassembling. Also check that the tip of the spring is smooth and clean. Put a dab of some grease (cork grease, Vaseline, whatever) on the tip of the spring before reassembly. Reassemble and test the section of flute. A light suck should pull a good vacuum. A strong blow should be needed to lift any of the pads off the seat.
Do the rest of the keys while you are at it. If one is sticking, the rest are probably not far behind! Also check the embouchure hole for buildup of gunge. It can significantly reduce the liveliness. "Dark" is good, dull isn't!
Key sticking on flute
Key sticking on flute
Hi, I've been playing a Sam Murray semi-keyed flute (C natural, G sharp and F natural) for the past few years, never had any problems but now I find the G sharp key is sticking when I play it so that it doesn't go back to covert the hole afterwards, is there any type of oil I can use to treat it?
Thanks
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by wright.rupert19
Re: Key sticking on flute
Could be just that the spring needs cleaning. Have you tried taking the key off and cleaning it carefully?
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Key sticking on flute
I could be wrong but it may have come about by OVER-oiling. Almond oil (if that's what you use) can dissolve the glue which keeps the leather pad on, and then the pad will stick to the sides of the hole. You should protect the pads by cutting out little squares of plastic bag and placing them between the hole and the pad when oiling. You may now have get that key re-padded.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: Key sticking on flute
@ Rudall the time, Hi no it's def not from over-oiling, it's when I play the key it won't go back down, it's the key itself that is stiff, would putting almond oil on it work? I seem to remember this happened a few years ago but I can't remember how I fixed it then.
And @ ethical blend, how does one take the key off a flute please? Thanks to everyone.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by wright.rupert19
Re: Key sticking on flute
I'm not intimately familiar with Sam Murray's flutes, but the keys must be put on in the standard way, I would think. Assuming the keys are block mounted (as opposed to metal posts) there should be a pin which runs through the post and holds the key on. You'll see the end of it sticking out of the block. Most people seem to be able to get these out with their fingers. I must admit, I need a pair of ground off parallel pliers, which work fine. Please don't use ordinary pliers on your flute - it will wreck it. If you can pull the pin out with your fingers, you're laughing, 'cos it's dead easy to put back afterwards and I bet it does just need a bit of a clean.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Key sticking on flute
Jewellers' pliers also work, especially the ones with angled noses, if you don't want to grind down bigger ones, though I think mine are specialist woodwind repair tools. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but pull the pin out slowly over a piece of paper - I wasted a lot of time the other day scrabbling about on the floor for one that had pinged out because I was being insufficiently careful! I did find it.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by Slightly Mad Scientist
Re: Key sticking on flute
@ Gemini: Possibly. Hmm, could this be the problem? How can I dry it out?
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by wright.rupert19
Re: Key sticking on flute
A quick fix for silver flutes- we do this in band-not permanent- may work- take an old, worn dollar bill, put it under the key and close the key by pushing on it. Pull out the dollar bill while the key is still closed. The oils (and assorted grime) will "lubricate" the pad from under they key.
Then, go get it fixed properly.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Key sticking on flute
wright.rupert19, I wouldn't put a hairdryer anywhere near a woodwind instrument such as a flute, unless a serious maker says so and I would be very, very surprised if they did. A couple of days in a dry room is all it would take.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by bogman
Re: Key sticking on flute
I play a sam with three keys like yours. I had a similar problem with the G key. I put a small drop of almond oil between the block and key, I repeatedly pressed the key for a few mins to let the oil work in. I haven't had any trouble with it since.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by Darragh Ó C
Re: Key sticking on flute
I wouldn't use almond oil as a lubricant because it goes sticky. You can buy key oil for woodwind instruments but it shouldn't really be necessary. Keep the flute somewhere warmish and dry for a few days and see if it helps, and in the meantime have a good look with a hand lens and a bright light and see if you can see where it is sticking. A good careful clean should do it, seeing as you've had no problem before now.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by gam
Re: Key sticking on flute
Yep. Jewellers' pliers = parallel pliers. Same thing. They're flat bladed in any case (assuming you get the right ones - Maun make some) but I'm so paranoid about flutes that I have 'em ground off in any case.
# Posted on November 22nd 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Key sticking on flute
I'm having a similar problem, mainly on the long keys. It's not a problem at the level of the pads: the key lifts up no problem - it's coming back down that's the rub...
Suggestions? It seems to happen most in certain places - I'm not sure whether low or high humidity is to blame?
# Posted on November 23rd 2010 by Tirno
Re: Key sticking on flute
Long keys is probably a different problem. Either the guide channel may have swollen (again, assuming block mounted keys) or, more likely, the key has too much sideways play in it. I wouldn't be able to fix that myself, and would take it to a repairer.
# Posted on November 23rd 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Key sticking on flute
The best lubricants I've found for keyed woodwind instruments (of which I have a lot) are the solutions or suspensions of dry lubricant used for high-tech cycling. Finish Line (teflon suspension) or Kry-Tech (paraffin solution) both work. You need very very little (one 2oz bottle is enough for a few thousand flutes).
Clean the machinery first, though - take the key apart and get any goo or corrosion out of the posts with a pipecleaner. I have done this with nstruments up to 100 years old and ranging from tenor recorders to saxophones. You will occasionally need WD-40 to get the pins or screws out, but it's unusual for an instrument less than 50 years old to be that stuck.
# Posted on November 23rd 2010 by Jack Campin
Re: Key sticking on flute
My experience with sticking keys on block mounted flutes is that the channel that holds the key needs cleaning. If oil has got in the track, it attracts grue and can get sticky. I just take the key off, use a soft folded cloth to clean out the tracks, and to clean the key where it lies in the track, and usually things are fine. I'm in the avoid oil camp. A little graphite lubricant is unlikely to harm, but I don't use anything.
I once had a key stick because a humidity change, but storage in the right conditions for a few days solved that. Wood swells when it's wet, shrinks when it's dry.
I've never had a key with too much sideways play. When long keys stick, cleaning the track has solve that. Once I found that a new to me flute had a previous owner who bent the little pin.
I agree heartily with the advice to keep your eye on the pin-once it bounces, the little bugs are hard to find.
Hugh
# Posted on November 23rd 2010 by flutefry
Re: Key sticking on flute
I had the same problem with a Watson flute once, which is similar in many ways. The G# key is a bugger. I took it off, cleaned the key, spring, and block, and used a tiny, tiny bit of cork grease on the end of the spring that hits the wood. This reduced the friction and I never had another problem. Best of luck.
# Posted on November 23rd 2010 by celtic marine
Re: Key sticking on flute
The usual problem with block-mounted keys is build-up of gunge, particularly if you oil the outside of the flute with a vegetable based oil.
Pull the pin and the key should pop out. A sharp knife under the bent-over part of the pin should get it moving. Mechanically clean out any gunge in the slot (a sharpened ice-cream stick is an effective and safe instrument), clean the pin and the pin hole and the metal striker plate that the tip of the spring presses on inside the slot (I can't remember if Sam uses the traditional lever springs, but I imagine he does). You might need a solvent like acetone on some rag on the end of the ice-cream stick to clean away the last of the old oil gunge. It may also take oil off the wood around it, but you can renew that with some oil on a rag, being careful not to run it into the slots.
Make sure the pin runs freely in the hole in the key before reassembling. Also check that the tip of the spring is smooth and clean. Put a dab of some grease (cork grease, Vaseline, whatever) on the tip of the spring before reassembly. Reassemble and test the section of flute. A light suck should pull a good vacuum. A strong blow should be needed to lift any of the pads off the seat.
Do the rest of the keys while you are at it. If one is sticking, the rest are probably not far behind! Also check the embouchure hole for buildup of gunge. It can significantly reduce the liveliness. "Dark" is good, dull isn't!
Terry
# Posted on November 23rd 2010 by Terry McGee