I'm in one of the local establishments, sandwiches & beers. The music is provided via Pandora, but little acoustic & probably no fiddle. So I thought I'd introduce them to one of the latest YouTube clips from MustardMusic;
I'll catch up later. My session is tonight. Hopefully this thread is not off-topic (apparently I've been a very bad boy lately). Dragut, I am curious if you are referencing YouTube recording in general or more specifically the one linked.
Cheers!
Yep, that head-banging stuff from Three Mile Stone is pretty obnoxious. Don't know how Marla has any vocal chords left with all that screaming she does.
Just kidding.
Music that is different from the usual background stuff (and I suggest that reggae has achieved that status, since I hear it in the supermarket now) is really disturbing to some people. Perhaps because it is different from what they normally listen to, and is harder to talk over? I haven't quite figured this out.
Hi Ben. I havn't heard this band before. Its fine music. Lovely rhythm, lovely feel, lovely choice of tunes all played nicely and providing pleasure for the listener. Is that you on guitar? Can you name the other musicians? Great stuff.
Yeah, I mean that the sound quality of home-made video recordings is usually pretty awful in general, though I don't really notice it that much on my computer anymore. If you're used to this music and are listening to the playing, rather than the recording itself, you filter out the artefacts that other people might not necessarily be able to unconsciously ignore. But compare a Youtube audio track to studio-produced recordings, even if they're very compressed, and the difference is very hard to swallow if you're not already used to listening to people play this music.
< sound quality of home-made video recordings is usually pretty awful in general>
Yes! I Agree, and hard to do much about too, But I enjoyed this Video link - A lovely Touch if not to loud in any restaurant,,
Dam good musician's too, Thanks for this post..
jim,,,
I don't mind the sound quality of most you tube clips. I like that unfiltered raw sound. And it suits the tunes well. No need to over produce anything. Don't need to hear the pin drop....
It's hard to 'hear' what other people hear in musc. Flutes, pipes, whistles and fiddles are very alien to a lot of people. If they listen to a fiddle at all it's so far in the background of the latest crappy country song that you gotta wonder why they even bothered. I've experienced the same kind of reaction to Irish music and it still kind of shocks me. It's almost like it hurts them. Much the same reaction I'd give if I had to listen to whatever crap passes for music in thier lives. And I could understand that response, maybe, if it were in reaction to old piping recordings but it's not. I think they are just out of their 'comfort zone.'
I didn't notice the background noise and poor sound quality on first listening to the clip. I was looking forward to another listen but found that I didn't want it running while writing this post. I need to be listening to the playing and tune. I think that's just the sound quality though - I would be really happy to listen to a studio recording of the same whilst driving. So, for me, what Dragut says.
And Thanks for this Link too,,, I had a listen to there Sample's
there - '' Three Mile Stone '' Is a Very Good Band , I like there Style of playing the tune's -- Enjoyed them..
jim,,,
That sounds absolutely beautiful! I liked the first tune especially; it's so relaxed. It just goes to show how a well-played mandolin can fit into Irish music. Well done everyone.
PS. It can be very difficult to record good sound in noisy surrounds.
shanty, you say that peoples reaction to Irish music shocks you and then say you would have the same reaction to whatever crap they listen to, weird statement. What is crap in your opinion? I listen to a wide range of stuff and maybe you could tell me if it's any good or not. Off the top of my head.....Woody Guthrie, Dylan, Waits, The Stones, Marley, Lee Perry, Calexico, Iron & Wine, Neil Young, Joy Division, Cocteau Twins, Big Star, Bhundu Boys, Fela Kuti, Midlake, Warpaint, Mark Lanegan, Hendrix, Massive Attack, Blind Willie Johnson, Sonny Terry, Velvet Underground, Richard Thompson, Ballboy, Mogwai, The Duke & The King, Elvis Costello...that's enough for now, hope some of it jogs you out of your comfort zone.
Like Dragut said, it's preaching to the converted when you post a clip like that here.
When I torture people in my car with 5000+ tracks of mostly Irish and Scottish music on my iPod, my experience is that people are incredibly habituated to music which has a heavy bass. Therefore they find the lack of bass-end frequencies in trad kind of bewildering and weird. I never thought about it much until one friend was able to articulate why she didn't like the endless tracks of trad music -- she said that there were too many top end frequencies and not enough more bassiness to balance it out. No one else had been able to do much more than twitch squeamishly, but if your ear is totally habituated to the frequencies of modern pop music (which was probably the case for most of the people in Ben's pub), then you probably would find Irish music pretty shrill.
Almost anything played on the radio these days (especially if it has a lot bass). : P When the iPod is out of battery, it's usually time for despair, unless of course Radio na Gael is playing trad music or BBC4 has some suitably intellectual programming.
I have been accused of being overly picky about music. But I like Paul Simon!
Yes, really nice samples. I could listen to the instrumental ones whilst typing a post, but not the songs. So sound quality was the issue.
I think with me familairity with the rhythm is important when 'dual tasking'. I can usually work and listen to ceili\ceilidh\ScottishCD music but reggae and latin american rhythms I have to turn off. Doing something that does not require concentration I am more likely to listen to other sorts of 'celtic' () music and give the reggae and latin stuff the occasional listen.
I'm going to fill up the pipe without tobacco and get some serious bass sounds wrenching my gut muscles from their mountings. It's all deep down and psychedelic here in Fermanagh. I feel like the boy in the bubble as Mr Simon once said.
I find Paul Simon and insipid whiner. And his plunderings of other cultures to suppliment his shallow acousto-pop make him nothing more than a thieving little b*stard
Go on Llig you grumpy passionate oul bollix! A breath of fresh air.Whats that you said about Lunasa again? Might be a good day on session.org yet if we dont all get sin binned.!
I think you're a bit harsh there, llig. I'm not really a fan of him but he has done some good stuff and he wouldn't be the only one to plunder other cultures, would he? Tom Waits, Dylan, The Stones, etc etc all plundered to great effect. And what about Talking Heads? did they plunder or were they just putting an original slant on other cultures?
Paul Simon was OK in the 70's. Things have moved but on but he hasn't although he thinks he has. He should stick to selling beds and curtains http://www.paulsimon.co.uk/index.html
strayaway-I notice Garth Brooks absent from your list. I also dint see Madonna on your list. What's so strange about my statement on crap music? Brittney Spears? I almost alluded to Sister Ray in my post. Good for you on your listening habits! I like good music made for the love of the music, no matter the genre, with few exceptions crap music is commercial garbage written, recorded, performed for the purpose of making money and entertaining the herd. So I'll say it now....THE HERD ought to be strapped to a chair and forced to listen to Sister Ray for 48 hours while undergoing root canal surgery and having rabid rodents chew on thier extremities. Maybe after a few treatments Irish music would be less painful to them!
Wow, strapped to a chair, listening to Sister Ray while having your bits chewed, sounds pretty good to me. Dunno if Frampton would agree tho, seemed too nice a guy for that sorta thing.
To be fair, if a place usually has pop or rock played over their PA system, it will be set up and balanced for that kind of music so traditional music - especially a rough and ready recording - might well sound shrill.
Growing up in Scotland, pretty much everyone knew what traditional music was supposed to sound like; if nothing else they would have been subjected to lots of it early in life via school concerts and Scottish country dancing. So, someone might not like it but they also wouldn't scream "Aroint thee witch!" if it came on. I find such an aversion pretty bizarre.
I think we should remember though that if you've got wider tastes than someone, it's good fortune on your part to have had the chance to grow to love different types of music, and not a personal failing on theirs.
No, it's a personal failing. Kinda like bigotry or, at best, a lack of curiosity, esp at this time in the modern world. To act as if a certain type of music hurts is just rude(unless, of course) it's meant to hurt).
"That's a good point Menace, most ignorance is not wilful."
You must not get out much. Jesus....and you the atheist railling against the church....
That's a great video. I actually learned Fleur De Mandragore from that video a few weeks ago. Great tune (with or without the extra beat...)
It's hard to criticize people for their choice in music. I certainly didn't like Irish stuff much when I first heard it. It was so different (and, erm... twangy) from what I was used to. But yes, I found Lunasa to be a good "starter drug", which led me down the dark path of abandoning all other types of music so that I could get my "fix".
But not everybody who hears it is going to ultimately get obsessed with it the way that many of us have... And there's no point in trying to force it on people. (Not that you were doing that, Ben. There's nothing wrong with trying to introduce people to it either...)
I think I'm a bit more mellow about this than you shanty; I'm sure there are musical styles and traditions inthis world you yourself are not familiar with or which might sound odd or unpleasant to you. I don't think it's an insult to not like something I like.
(What alarms me much more than someone finding a bit of fiddle to be uncomfortably shrill is that there's a whole generation growing up that's never known pop music without Autotune.)
I think the point about bass frequencies is spot on - and perhaps the same applies to both rhythm and melody (which means pretty much the entirety of the music).
From similar 'experiments' I have tried, people seem lost without a drum kit to tell them where the rhythm is (so maybe there is a good reason for bodhrans after all ) and also we tend to forget that to the uninitiated, one tune sounds pretty much the same as the next. The main discernable thing seems to be key changes, but that's about it. Even my wife says that, and she's had a hell of a lot of tunes foisted on her
I think a lot of people are so used to their music coming via sugary, pre-packaged, celebrity-laden commercial routes that they can't cope with the sheer make-shiftness (no, let's call it 'Immediacy') of proper music.
I played a session about ten days ago in a pub which has a large restaurant attached, and which seemed like a most unlikely and unsympathetic venue. The looks of complete loss on the faces of most of the arriving/departing diners said a lot...
Ian
Incidentally I rather like careful use of deep, sustained bass (i.e. pedals/keys better than strings) a la Bothy Band or Deaf Shepherd, but it seems hard to do it sympathetically.
Mellow?You're just more polite than me! Bunch of boring dolts those people. Anyway...I certainly HOPE there are lots of new traditions and styles of music for me yet to discover! Even though I'm older than old dirt I'm always looking to expand my horizon. Within the last year I've 'discovered' Kelzmer music and am blown away by it. And you're right it's not an insult to not like something but to wince in pain at it? Come on now, unless you're 12....
Agreed, Marla and Co. are anything but bad musicians. Trad -- even decent Trad -- is getting to be a tough sell outside of Irish bars, in these parts, nowadays.
I think it was always a tough sell, anywhere. Still, you can smugly sit back and comfort yourself that you're listening to and playing something worthwhile while the uninformed millions around the globe are splashing the cash and admiration on the latest overnight sensation. There again, nobody in ITM does it for fame or money, DO THEY?
I'm back in the trad free zone. John Cougar Mellencamp just finished "Night Moves" The next set is Otis Redding, the staff is whistling along.
I'm not really familiar with the group in the YouTube. But I do recognize Marla, on mandolin, & Erin, on fiddle, from 10 years ago when I was last at Lark Camp.
... Travelling Wilbury's, which is fitting since it was Roy Orbison when I walked in.
One likes to think that good music -- any good music, and especially Trad -- is one of those self-evident truths. Nope. To quote a member here: "The music I like is good. The music you like is bad." Music's reception is as much a matter of individual taste at best; or at worst, (You really see this here in the US, and this is point I want to make) things such as taste or popular demand are manufactured by marketers as much as generated by any intrinsic worthiness.
The quote seems oversimplified. I don't presume most people should share my musical taste. It's subjective in any case. The old adage, "listen, listen, listen." is a standard I set for myself (not others) in order to better hear the expressions of familiar & unfamiliar music. If it is unfamiliar I may not understand straight off. So I decide if I want to listen more closely, or not.
I don't think that diddley music, jigs and reels and stuff, makes very good music to listen too. The only intelligent people I know who do like listening to it either have a nostalgic connection to it or play it themselves.
Sheriff after you too, Random? Well, you should be safe with your new alias. Tell me though, doesn't it sting a bit, after you've just heard a nifty bit of Trad -- beautifull, live, rollicking stuff -- to then hear some first-time listeners describe it as awfull music? (Especially if said first-time listener is some drop-dead gorgious gal) You're scarred, but you go on...
The only intelligent people I know who do like listening to it either have a nostalgic connection to it or play it themselves or relatively rapidly become players of it themselves.
You underestimate what a slow learner I am. Nothing rapid about my plunging into the deep end of the trad pond. I get your meaning though, Llig
...
I said plunge, that's rapid, you must be correct.
Guess we can rule out intelligent.
"Still, you can smugly sit back and comfort yourself that you're listening to and playing something worthwhile while the uninformed millions around the globe are splashing the cash and admiration on the latest overnight sensation."
Yes, yes I do, and yes I am. Feels good man. It's a very punk rock attitude, one I'm very at home with. I see the similarities with the old man in the back of the pub with the tweed cap muttering "You're doing it wrong."
yikes must be somethin wrong with me - I found it hard to listen to the youtube clip, not my cup of tea. it might just be the boom/chuck guitar backup, as the fiddle playing is nice. but I do like Irish trad, Honest!
Musical Gaps
Musical Gaps
I'm in one of the local establishments, sandwiches & beers. The music is provided via Pandora, but little acoustic & probably no fiddle. So I thought I'd introduce them to one of the latest YouTube clips from MustardMusic;
Three Mile Stone performing at Julie's Coffee and Tea, Alameda, CA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE0c5j-NKSY
The reaction surprised me ...
squirming something awful, the owner proclaimed "turn it down, it's piercing **!!**"
I didn't even get to hear to the 3rd tune before it was faded out & switched back to reggae, The Stones...
These tunes are not for everybody.
I emailed the link to my mates earlier & received a much more favourable response.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Musical Gaps
Youtube clips are fine if you're preaching to the converted, but at high volume most stuff sounds like dogs hite.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Musical Gaps
That's just it, the volume was much lower than what is being played right now.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Musical Gaps
I'll catch up later. My session is tonight. Hopefully this thread is not off-topic (apparently I've been a very bad boy lately). Dragut, I am curious if you are referencing YouTube recording in general or more specifically the one linked.
Cheers!
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Musical Gaps
Sounded pretty good to me, Ben, didn't have time to listen to it all, but very pleasant music.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Musical Gaps
Yep, that head-banging stuff from Three Mile Stone is pretty obnoxious. Don't know how Marla has any vocal chords left with all that screaming she does.
Just kidding.
Music that is different from the usual background stuff (and I suggest that reggae has achieved that status, since I hear it in the supermarket now) is really disturbing to some people. Perhaps because it is different from what they normally listen to, and is harder to talk over? I haven't quite figured this out.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: Musical Gaps
Hi Ben. I havn't heard this band before. Its fine music. Lovely rhythm, lovely feel, lovely choice of tunes all played nicely and providing pleasure for the listener. Is that you on guitar? Can you name the other musicians? Great stuff.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by big_tab
Re: Musical Gaps
Yeah, I mean that the sound quality of home-made video recordings is usually pretty awful in general, though I don't really notice it that much on my computer anymore. If you're used to this music and are listening to the playing, rather than the recording itself, you filter out the artefacts that other people might not necessarily be able to unconsciously ignore. But compare a Youtube audio track to studio-produced recordings, even if they're very compressed, and the difference is very hard to swallow if you're not already used to listening to people play this music.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Musical Gaps
I'm listening, fairly loud, on my home stereo. The fiddle sounds a bit harsh at the upper end. Guessing it's the open E string.
@big_tab: the musicians are named in the description on YouTube.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by GaryAMartin
Re: Musical Gaps
< sound quality of home-made video recordings is usually pretty awful in general>
Yes! I Agree, and hard to do much about too, But I enjoyed this Video link - A lovely Touch if not to loud in any restaurant,,
Dam good musician's too, Thanks for this post..
jim,,,
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: Musical Gaps
Thanks Gary..
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by big_tab
Re: Musical Gaps
I don't mind the sound quality of most you tube clips. I like that unfiltered raw sound. And it suits the tunes well. No need to over produce anything. Don't need to hear the pin drop....
It's hard to 'hear' what other people hear in musc. Flutes, pipes, whistles and fiddles are very alien to a lot of people. If they listen to a fiddle at all it's so far in the background of the latest crappy country song that you gotta wonder why they even bothered. I've experienced the same kind of reaction to Irish music and it still kind of shocks me. It's almost like it hurts them. Much the same reaction I'd give if I had to listen to whatever crap passes for music in thier lives. And I could understand that response, maybe, if it were in reaction to old piping recordings but it's not. I think they are just out of their 'comfort zone.'
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by shanty
Re: Musical Gaps
"Much the same reaction I'd give if I had to listen to
whatever crap passes for music in thier lives."
haha! that's really funny
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by leoj
Re: Musical Gaps
I didn't notice the background noise and poor sound quality on first listening to the clip. I was looking forward to another listen but found that I didn't want it running while writing this post. I need to be listening to the playing and tune. I think that's just the sound quality though - I would be really happy to listen to a studio recording of the same whilst driving. So, for me, what Dragut says.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by David50
Re: Musical Gaps
Here you go:
http://threemilestonemusic.com/
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by leoj
Re: Musical Gaps
And Thanks for this Link too,,, I had a listen to there Sample's
there - '' Three Mile Stone '' Is a Very Good Band , I like there Style of playing the tune's -- Enjoyed them..
jim,,,
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: Musical Gaps
Sounded nice, sensitively-played stuff to me.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by nicholas
Re: Musical Gaps
That sounds absolutely beautiful! I liked the first tune especially; it's so relaxed. It just goes to show how a well-played mandolin can fit into Irish music. Well done everyone.
PS. It can be very difficult to record good sound in noisy surrounds.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by amhrán
Re: Musical Gaps
shanty, you say that peoples reaction to Irish music shocks you and then say you would have the same reaction to whatever crap they listen to, weird statement. What is crap in your opinion? I listen to a wide range of stuff and maybe you could tell me if it's any good or not. Off the top of my head.....Woody Guthrie, Dylan, Waits, The Stones, Marley, Lee Perry, Calexico, Iron & Wine, Neil Young, Joy Division, Cocteau Twins, Big Star, Bhundu Boys, Fela Kuti, Midlake, Warpaint, Mark Lanegan, Hendrix, Massive Attack, Blind Willie Johnson, Sonny Terry, Velvet Underground, Richard Thompson, Ballboy, Mogwai, The Duke & The King, Elvis Costello...that's enough for now, hope some of it jogs you out of your comfort zone.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
Like Dragut said, it's preaching to the converted when you post a clip like that here.
When I torture people in my car with 5000+ tracks of mostly Irish and Scottish music on my iPod, my experience is that people are incredibly habituated to music which has a heavy bass. Therefore they find the lack of bass-end frequencies in trad kind of bewildering and weird. I never thought about it much until one friend was able to articulate why she didn't like the endless tracks of trad music -- she said that there were too many top end frequencies and not enough more bassiness to balance it out. No one else had been able to do much more than twitch squeamishly, but if your ear is totally habituated to the frequencies of modern pop music (which was probably the case for most of the people in Ben's pub), then you probably would find Irish music pretty shrill.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Musical Gaps
Ouch. That's a poorly written post,
*not enough bassiness......
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Musical Gaps
"What is crap in your opinion?"
Almost anything played on the radio these days (especially if it has a lot bass). : P When the iPod is out of battery, it's usually time for despair, unless of course Radio na Gael is playing trad music or BBC4 has some suitably intellectual programming.
I have been accused of being overly picky about music. But I like Paul Simon!
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Musical Gaps
The only reason Lunasa have gained a tiny foothold in the world of muwsic generaly is beacuse of the bass.
(by the way, it was Finbar Furey, sorry I didn;'t get baqck last week, I was in the sin bin)
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by ...
Re: Musical Gaps
Yes, really nice samples. I could listen to the instrumental ones whilst typing a post, but not the songs. So sound quality was the issue.
) music and give the reggae and latin stuff the occasional listen.
I think with me familairity with the rhythm is important when 'dual tasking'. I can usually work and listen to ceili\ceilidh\ScottishCD music but reggae and latin american rhythms I have to turn off. Doing something that does not require concentration I am more likely to listen to other sorts of 'celtic' (
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by David50
Re: Musical Gaps
I'm going to fill up the pipe without tobacco and get some serious bass sounds wrenching my gut muscles from their mountings. It's all deep down and psychedelic here in Fermanagh. I feel like the boy in the bubble as Mr Simon once said.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
I find Paul Simon and insipid whiner. And his plunderings of other cultures to suppliment his shallow acousto-pop make him nothing more than a thieving little b*stard
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by ...
Re: Musical Gaps
Go on Llig you grumpy passionate oul bollix! A breath of fresh air.Whats that you said about Lunasa again? Might be a good day on session.org yet if we dont all get sin binned.!
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by big_tab
Re: Musical Gaps
I think you're a bit harsh there, llig. I'm not really a fan of him but he has done some good stuff and he wouldn't be the only one to plunder other cultures, would he? Tom Waits, Dylan, The Stones, etc etc all plundered to great effect. And what about Talking Heads? did they plunder or were they just putting an original slant on other cultures?
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
Paul Simon was OK in the 70's. Things have moved but on but he hasn't although he thinks he has. He should stick to selling beds and curtains
http://www.paulsimon.co.uk/index.html
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: Musical Gaps
strayaway-I notice Garth Brooks absent from your list. I also dint see Madonna on your list. What's so strange about my statement on crap music? Brittney Spears? I almost alluded to Sister Ray in my post. Good for you on your listening habits! I like good music made for the love of the music, no matter the genre, with few exceptions crap music is commercial garbage written, recorded, performed for the purpose of making money and entertaining the herd. So I'll say it now....THE HERD ought to be strapped to a chair and forced to listen to Sister Ray for 48 hours while undergoing root canal surgery and having rabid rodents chew on thier extremities. Maybe after a few treatments Irish music would be less painful to them!
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by shanty
Re: Musical Gaps
Wow, strapped to a chair, listening to Sister Ray while having your bits chewed, sounds pretty good to me. Dunno if Frampton would agree tho, seemed too nice a guy for that sorta thing.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
Slooshy pop-disk veshch is sodding strack. Tis zammechat yarbles. The strack zvook sends me zasnoot.
(Appypolly loggy to Anthony Burgess)
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by ...
Re: Musical Gaps
Very good, llig.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
To be fair, if a place usually has pop or rock played over their PA system, it will be set up and balanced for that kind of music so traditional music - especially a rough and ready recording - might well sound shrill.
Growing up in Scotland, pretty much everyone knew what traditional music was supposed to sound like; if nothing else they would have been subjected to lots of it early in life via school concerts and Scottish country dancing. So, someone might not like it but they also wouldn't scream "Aroint thee witch!" if it came on. I find such an aversion pretty bizarre.
I think we should remember though that if you've got wider tastes than someone, it's good fortune on your part to have had the chance to grow to love different types of music, and not a personal failing on theirs.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Red Menace
Re: Musical Gaps
That's a good point Menace, most ignorance is not wilful.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by ...
Re: Musical Gaps
No, it's a personal failing. Kinda like bigotry or, at best, a lack of curiosity, esp at this time in the modern world. To act as if a certain type of music hurts is just rude(unless, of course) it's meant to hurt).
"That's a good point Menace, most ignorance is not wilful."
You must not get out much. Jesus....and you the atheist railling against the church....
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by shanty
Re: Musical Gaps
That's a great video. I actually learned Fleur De Mandragore from that video a few weeks ago. Great tune (with or without the extra beat...)
It's hard to criticize people for their choice in music. I certainly didn't like Irish stuff much when I first heard it. It was so different (and, erm... twangy) from what I was used to. But yes, I found Lunasa to be a good "starter drug", which led me down the dark path of abandoning all other types of music so that I could get my "fix".
But not everybody who hears it is going to ultimately get obsessed with it the way that many of us have... And there's no point in trying to force it on people. (Not that you were doing that, Ben. There's nothing wrong with trying to introduce people to it either...)
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Reverend
Re: Musical Gaps
I think I'm a bit more mellow about this than you shanty; I'm sure there are musical styles and traditions inthis world you yourself are not familiar with or which might sound odd or unpleasant to you. I don't think it's an insult to not like something I like.
(What alarms me much more than someone finding a bit of fiddle to be uncomfortably shrill is that there's a whole generation growing up that's never known pop music without Autotune.)
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by Red Menace
Re: Musical Gaps
I think the point about bass frequencies is spot on - and perhaps the same applies to both rhythm and melody (which means pretty much the entirety of the music).
) and also we tend to forget that to the uninitiated, one tune sounds pretty much the same as the next. The main discernable thing seems to be key changes, but that's about it. Even my wife says that, and she's had a hell of a lot of tunes foisted on her 
From similar 'experiments' I have tried, people seem lost without a drum kit to tell them where the rhythm is (so maybe there is a good reason for bodhrans after all
I think a lot of people are so used to their music coming via sugary, pre-packaged, celebrity-laden commercial routes that they can't cope with the sheer make-shiftness (no, let's call it 'Immediacy') of proper music.
I played a session about ten days ago in a pub which has a large restaurant attached, and which seemed like a most unlikely and unsympathetic venue. The looks of complete loss on the faces of most of the arriving/departing diners said a lot...
Ian
Incidentally I rather like careful use of deep, sustained bass (i.e. pedals/keys better than strings) a la Bothy Band or Deaf Shepherd, but it seems hard to do it sympathetically.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by ian stock
Re: Musical Gaps
Mellow?You're just more polite than me! Bunch of boring dolts those people. Anyway...I certainly HOPE there are lots of new traditions and styles of music for me yet to discover! Even though I'm older than old dirt I'm always looking to expand my horizon. Within the last year I've 'discovered' Kelzmer music and am blown away by it. And you're right it's not an insult to not like something but to wince in pain at it? Come on now, unless you're 12....
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by shanty
Re: Musical Gaps
We're not talking about this Three Mile Stone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm6yDFWBBVk&feature=related
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: Musical Gaps
It's a shame that John Bonham never got round to playing some trad. Moby Dick with flutes and fiddles, awesome.
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
Well that would certainly jog me out of my comfort zone!
# Posted on November 10th 2010 by shanty
Re: Musical Gaps
Agreed, Marla and Co. are anything but bad musicians. Trad -- even decent Trad -- is getting to be a tough sell outside of Irish bars, in these parts, nowadays.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Musical Gaps
I think it was always a tough sell, anywhere. Still, you can smugly sit back and comfort yourself that you're listening to and playing something worthwhile while the uninformed millions around the globe are splashing the cash and admiration on the latest overnight sensation. There again, nobody in ITM does it for fame or money, DO THEY?
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
I'm back in the trad free zone. John Cougar Mellencamp just finished "Night Moves" The next set is Otis Redding, the staff is whistling along.
I'm not really familiar with the group in the YouTube. But I do recognize Marla, on mandolin, & Erin, on fiddle, from 10 years ago when I was last at Lark Camp.
... Travelling Wilbury's, which is fitting since it was Roy Orbison when I walked in.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Ben Steen
Google
must be Bob Seeger, which is good because I thought John Cougar usually sounds better than that. ;)
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Musical Gaps
One likes to think that good music -- any good music, and especially Trad -- is one of those self-evident truths. Nope. To quote a member here: "The music I like is good. The music you like is bad." Music's reception is as much a matter of individual taste at best; or at worst, (You really see this here in the US, and this is point I want to make) things such as taste or popular demand are manufactured by marketers as much as generated by any intrinsic worthiness.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Musical Gaps
Indeed, AQ.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Musical Gaps
The quote seems oversimplified. I don't presume most people should share my musical taste. It's subjective in any case. The old adage, "listen, listen, listen." is a standard I set for myself (not others) in order to better hear the expressions of familiar & unfamiliar music. If it is unfamiliar I may not understand straight off. So I decide if I want to listen more closely, or not.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Musical Gaps
I don't think that diddley music, jigs and reels and stuff, makes very good music to listen too. The only intelligent people I know who do like listening to it either have a nostalgic connection to it or play it themselves.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by ...
Re: Musical Gaps
Sheriff after you too, Random? Well, you should be safe with your new alias. Tell me though, doesn't it sting a bit, after you've just heard a nifty bit of Trad -- beautifull, live, rollicking stuff -- to then hear some first-time listeners describe it as awfull music? (Especially if said first-time listener is some drop-dead gorgious gal) You're scarred, but you go on...
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Musical Gaps
I must be an anomaly, or not intelligent, I began listening without either of those factors.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Musical Gaps
OK, I don't mind rephrasing that:
The only intelligent people I know who do like listening to it either have a nostalgic connection to it or play it themselves or relatively rapidly become players of it themselves.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by ...
Re: Musical Gaps
You underestimate what a slow learner I am. Nothing rapid about my plunging into the deep end of the trad pond. I get your meaning though, Llig
...
I said plunge, that's rapid, you must be correct.
Guess we can rule out intelligent.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Musical Gaps
ha
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by ...
Re: Musical Gaps
"Still, you can smugly sit back and comfort yourself that you're listening to and playing something worthwhile while the uninformed millions around the globe are splashing the cash and admiration on the latest overnight sensation."
Yes, yes I do, and yes I am. Feels good man. It's a very punk rock attitude, one I'm very at home with. I see the similarities with the old man in the back of the pub with the tweed cap muttering "You're doing it wrong."
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Musical Gaps
yikes must be somethin wrong with me - I found it hard to listen to the youtube clip, not my cup of tea. it might just be the boom/chuck guitar backup, as the fiddle playing is nice. but I do like Irish trad, Honest!
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by wileydog
Re: Musical Gaps
Don't feel bad, I couldn't listen past the first half a min.
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by ...
MG
Thanks for your honesty Mr. Gill
# Posted on November 11th 2010 by Ben Steen