But you realize, I hope, that "Mary Can't Remember, Nor Can I" would be one of those titles that would be the source of endless discussion for years to come? Like "Pull The Knife Out and Stick It Again" or "I Buried My Wife And Danced On Top Of Her".
I think Mary plays it in a different key well it starts more like cA|GE ~E2 etc... am I correct or just completly sh*te at playing by ear...
Anyway, why do people play in different keys, is it so the tune sounds different and more interesting for a solo performance, is it a regional thing and they learnt it in that key, is it that the instrument is in a different key and they keep the same fingering.... I like the idea of different keys, but which key should you learn it in, I guess Dmaj is the answer ?
Can really good players play any tune in any key on the fly, that would scare me if its the case.
< am I correct or just completly sh*te at playing by ear...>
Theirlandais --- Your not if you can sort that out ,, It's likely a Concertina in a different pitch -- Like fiddler's tuning up to E flat
for example ---- Not bad hearing there -
jim,,,
>>Anyway, why do people play in different keys, is it so the tune sounds different and more interesting for a solo performance, is it a regional thing and they learnt it in that key, is it that the instrument is in a different key and they keep the same fingering....
Yes, all of the above might be reasons. There are others as well. I sometimes transpose a tune when I'm learning it as a way to get it more solidly in the head. Sometimes I transpose a tune after I've played it for a while to see if I can find something new in it - Rambling Pitchfork, for example, sounds like a totally different tune in G. As a BC box player, it's often interesting to move a tune down a whole step, where you have a different set of fingerings. Again, it gives you a new look at the tune. In sessions, though, I stick with the normal key, just to make life easier for everyone.
>>I like the idea of different keys, but which key should you learn it in, I guess Dmaj is the answer ?
Learn it any way you like it, but in sessions make sure you play it in the key others expect - it's only civilized.
< is it so the tune sounds different and more interesting for a solo performance,> -
This is a Good answer, but there's a Darker one' - ie/ Fiddler's only tuning up to Eb so that some Box and Flute players, Cant' play along with them,,
And I've seen this even in Session's ... : (
Here in East Clare a lot of tunes are played in the keys of C, F Gdor & Ddor it goes back to the days of the C concertina being prevalent in the area. But these are lovely keys to play in on the fiddle.
As an aside Jimmy Power played this tune on Ihis LP "Irish Dances" and names it as "The Maid Behind the Bar" but we all know that can't be right.
Bernie..
Sorry to move off the main subject here a Moment..
But!
You maybe the man to ask this Question to..
I was always told the reason C Concertina's
where popular in Co,Clare, was either to play
with the old Clarke's whistle player's - Or the other
way round - even fiddler's tuning down to C for the
same reason's,,, Is the just a Myth, or is there any
truth in it ??
There are several possible angle on the fiddlers though. The old fiddlers, listen to some of Bobby Casey's older recordings, tunes their fiddles below concert pitch (CD or C sharp).
Some East Clare players deliberately used different keys to change the mood of tunes, Paddy Canny and Martin Rochford notably. Martin Rochford viewed some of them as 'the darker keys' .
Concertinas are a different thing again, from the old German concertinas to the C/G anglo, the latter allowing both on the row or across the row playing and the different keys that will give you.
Prof,,
Ah - Bobby Casey's older recordings, fiddles below concert pitch (CD or C sharp). That I would never have worked out !
Thank-you very much for all that Information.. Took me about 26 year's to find answer's to all that. If not for this site, and the Internet - Likely ,, I never would have ...
Thank's , again..
jim,,,
You can also find a nice transcription of the tune in Perron and Miller's Irish Traditional Fiddle Tunes Vol 1. I can't say I play it as written (now) or even the same way twice, but it was a good place to start from.
They don't list a source for it but it plays very nicely for those who know how to.
Just been following through Bernie's link to the tune listing. You can buy the three volume set for USD 25 - I got mine way back when from Cecil Sharpe House in London for GBP 1.75
LOL...
II wonder if the reason why things were played in C much more long ago might be because the cheap concertinas mostly were C/Gs for reasons based in German music rather than Irish. They were also easy to learn to play in C. Playing a C/G along the C row is not fast, but then maybe they weren't playing so fast.
Nowdays a C/G concertina is often called a D instrument in Ireland because the modern style is based around playing in D on a C/G, allowing more speed in the cross row style.
C#/G instruments are called Eflat concertinas for the same reason, and Bf/Fs are called C instruments.
That is a practice used by some in Ireland. it's confusing though, Mary mac was using a C/G there to play in C. Several others do the same thing: Claire Keville goes to C often on the C/G and several others like Kitty Hayes etc could be added to that list.
mary can't remember, nor can I
mary can't remember, nor can I
I caught a momentary loss of memory from Mary Macnamara on the name of this tune. Surely somebody will remember... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JELM7IJliwM&feature=related
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by drone
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
It's one of those tunes that doesn't really have a 'proper' name. Denis Murphy's Michael Coleman's, Stenson's, you'll find it under all of these.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
But you realize, I hope, that "Mary Can't Remember, Nor Can I" would be one of those titles that would be the source of endless discussion for years to come? Like "Pull The Knife Out and Stick It Again" or "I Buried My Wife And Danced On Top Of Her".
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
I will, if I can
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
It's in the database as Jim Kelly's. Years ago, I think it was called Maguire's by the crowd I heard it from.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Jerry O'Donnell
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
I would know this tune as John Brennan's but its down here as jim Kelly's.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1139
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Bernie
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
I can only find this on it -- Not sure of that Name though ????
jim,,,
X:7
T:Ashplant, The
R:reel
D:Ashplant: Autographed
D:Sanctuary Sessions
Z:id:hn-reel-709
M:C|
K:D
AF~F2 BFAF|DEFA BABd|eB~B2 egfe|dfed BcdB|
AF~F2 BFAF|DEFA BABd|(3efg fg efdB|AFGE FDD2:|
|:d3e ~f3g|afbf afdf|eB~B2 FB~B2|fedf edBd|
AF~F2 ABdf|afbf afed|(3efg fg efdB|AFGE FDD2:|
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
I think Mary plays it in a different key well it starts more like cA|GE ~E2 etc... am I correct or just completly sh*te at playing by ear...
Anyway, why do people play in different keys, is it so the tune sounds different and more interesting for a solo performance, is it a regional thing and they learnt it in that key, is it that the instrument is in a different key and they keep the same fingering.... I like the idea of different keys, but which key should you learn it in, I guess Dmaj is the answer ?
Can really good players play any tune in any key on the fly, that would scare me if its the case.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Theirlandais
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
< am I correct or just completly sh*te at playing by ear...>
Theirlandais --- Your not if you can sort that out ,, It's likely a Concertina in a different pitch -- Like fiddler's tuning up to E flat
for example ---- Not bad hearing there -
jim,,,
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
>>Anyway, why do people play in different keys, is it so the tune sounds different and more interesting for a solo performance, is it a regional thing and they learnt it in that key, is it that the instrument is in a different key and they keep the same fingering....
Yes, all of the above might be reasons. There are others as well. I sometimes transpose a tune when I'm learning it as a way to get it more solidly in the head. Sometimes I transpose a tune after I've played it for a while to see if I can find something new in it - Rambling Pitchfork, for example, sounds like a totally different tune in G. As a BC box player, it's often interesting to move a tune down a whole step, where you have a different set of fingerings. Again, it gives you a new look at the tune. In sessions, though, I stick with the normal key, just to make life easier for everyone.
>>I like the idea of different keys, but which key should you learn it in, I guess Dmaj is the answer ?
Learn it any way you like it, but in sessions make sure you play it in the key others expect - it's only civilized.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
< is it so the tune sounds different and more interesting for a solo performance,> -
This is a Good answer, but there's a Darker one' - ie/ Fiddler's only tuning up to Eb so that some Box and Flute players, Cant' play along with them,,
And I've seen this even in Session's ... : (
jim,,,
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
It's actually unlikely it is a concertina in a different pitch. She often plays in C on a 'standard' C/G concertina.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
Here in East Clare a lot of tunes are played in the keys of C, F Gdor & Ddor it goes back to the days of the C concertina being prevalent in the area. But these are lovely keys to play in on the fiddle.
As an aside Jimmy Power played this tune on Ihis LP "Irish Dances" and names it as "The Maid Behind the Bar" but we all know that can't be right.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Bernie
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
Bernie..
Sorry to move off the main subject here a Moment..
But!
You maybe the man to ask this Question to..
I was always told the reason C Concertina's
where popular in Co,Clare, was either to play
with the old Clarke's whistle player's - Or the other
way round - even fiddler's tuning down to C for the
same reason's,,, Is the just a Myth, or is there any
truth in it ??
jim,,,
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
It's a myth.
There are several possible angle on the fiddlers though. The old fiddlers, listen to some of Bobby Casey's older recordings, tunes their fiddles below concert pitch (CD or C sharp).
Some East Clare players deliberately used different keys to change the mood of tunes, Paddy Canny and Martin Rochford notably. Martin Rochford viewed some of them as 'the darker keys' .
Concertinas are a different thing again, from the old German concertinas to the C/G anglo, the latter allowing both on the row or across the row playing and the different keys that will give you.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
Although, no small thanks to you lot, the name's even less firm in my mind than before, it came to me as Jim Kelly's long ago and far away. Cheers.
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by drone
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
Prof,,
Ah - Bobby Casey's older recordings, fiddles below concert pitch (CD or C sharp). That I would never have worked out !
Thank-you very much for all that Information.. Took me about 26 year's to find answer's to all that. If not for this site, and the Internet - Likely ,, I never would have ...
Thank's , again..
jim,,,
# Posted on November 2nd 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
You can also find a nice transcription of the tune in Perron and Miller's Irish Traditional Fiddle Tunes Vol 1. I can't say I play it as written (now) or even the same way twice, but it was a good place to start from.
They don't list a source for it but it plays very nicely for those who know how to.
# Posted on November 3rd 2010 by john knoss
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
Just been following through Bernie's link to the tune listing. You can buy the three volume set for USD 25 - I got mine way back when from Cecil Sharpe House in London for GBP 1.75
LOL...
# Posted on November 3rd 2010 by john knoss
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
II wonder if the reason why things were played in C much more long ago might be because the cheap concertinas mostly were C/Gs for reasons based in German music rather than Irish. They were also easy to learn to play in C. Playing a C/G along the C row is not fast, but then maybe they weren't playing so fast.
Nowdays a C/G concertina is often called a D instrument in Ireland because the modern style is based around playing in D on a C/G, allowing more speed in the cross row style.
C#/G instruments are called Eflat concertinas for the same reason, and Bf/Fs are called C instruments.
# Posted on November 3rd 2010 by cag
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
That is a practice used by some in Ireland. it's confusing though, Mary mac was using a C/G there to play in C. Several others do the same thing: Claire Keville goes to C often on the C/G and several others like Kitty Hayes etc could be added to that list.
# Posted on November 3rd 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
In Philadelphia that was always called Dick Sherlock's.
Robert Mouland
# Posted on November 3rd 2010 by WireHarp
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
Sorry for the delay, been off line for a week.
I, and everyone I knew back in Liverpool, always called this tune Sean Mcguire's.
All the best
Brian x
# Posted on November 8th 2010 by briantheflute
Re: mary can't remember, nor can I
I've mostly heard this tune called either A Night in Ennis, or as Jim has it, The Ashplant (and sometimes, "The other Ashplant").
# Posted on November 8th 2010 by Will Harmon