I've found this video while searching for some masterpieces of traditional music. I wonder how it is possible for some people in other countries claim to be playing "traditional" music. It is more like "trend" or fashion label.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I thought it was ok actually. Nice enough playing and they seemed to enjoy playing it, as I'm sure their audience enjoyed listening; also it was played at a nice steady pace and you could here the notes - unlike some of the young bands coming out of Ireland these days who seem to think that speed is the ultimate virtue. Even the drums, which I'm not normally a fan of, were played quite sympathetically.
I don't see what the problem is, if there is one.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Not too bad really. I have seen flasher playing and so on but so what? Fair play to them. I see they have some other videos up. I have not seen the whole of this one but I really liked what I did see:
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
thePrivateer1960 - These people have probably had very little exposure to 'real' Irish trad, apart from perhaps a few commercial recordings. I have no doubt they would love nothing more than to go to Ireland and be immersed in the real thing - perhaps finances, immigration etc. make it difficult.
I had the experience, about 12 years ago, of playing with a band in Riga, Latvia. I was a novice myself on mandolin, coming from England and never having been to Ireland - but I was the closest available thing to an authentic Irish traditional player. There was a small core of us with a real passion for Irish Traditional Music. The rest were on board because they were competent musicians - the hope was that they would develop an interest in the genre. The complete lack of awareness and understanding of this kind of music in Latvia at the time made it very difficult to find musicians with the same inclinations. We had a weekly residency in a pub and played occasional gigs elsewhere. We promoted ourselves as playing "Traditional Irish Music" (although we sometimes got billed as "Irish Folk Music", "Ancient Irish Music" and other bizarre distortions) because that was what we were trying to play, and it made no sense to call it anything else.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Here was my U-Tube comment to them ---
This is actually very very good - Loose the sight music - listen to some of the older Irish Player's come to Session's all around - And I think you guy's will go far...
If you need help with link's to Real old style Irish music -- Send me a Message with your Email on it -- and I'll send you some ... jim,,,
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Good on them. We'd welcome them at our local session, and it'd be a hoot to land in Novgorod and sit in with them.
thePrivateer wrote: "I wonder how it is possible for some people in other countries claim to be playing "traditional" music. "
But that's precisely what they're doing, playing traditional music. Sure it'd be nice if the fluter was on a wooden flute, and swap out the bongos for a bodhran. But they're doing the best they can, with what they have, where they are. And doing it fairly well. Seems to me that this is what the folks generations ago were doing themselves in Ballydehob, Caherciveen, and Lahinch, eh?
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
privateer maybe we're missing your point, so would you mind explaining it again - to me at least.
I for one don't get why you can say the comment quoted above yet one of your links is to a mcknowall workshop http://www.mcknowall.com/
who although a well known and respected member of this site, resides in Australia..... AND he takes to do with bodhrans - yet on the session you submitted you say no bodhrans accepted....!!??
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Yrndscrwlptl, I've just posted an info about the session with their own rules in Ballyshannon. Personally, I wouldn't say that bodhrans are evil. But either way we should follow the rules.
Guys, thanks for the comments. The topic was just to understand whether or not should we point musicians in oither countries, that claiming their music 'irish traditional' leads to some sort of responsibility. If you are 'traditional' then please be involved. Please keep learning different styles - Donegal, Kerry, etc. Please develop it or don't call it 'traditional'
These guys are quite good as nova-style musicians, of course, no prob's.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Hmmm. Just because someone in Timbuktu (or anywhere else) enjoys this music and wants to play it doesn't mean they have to follow anyone else's rules (or even sensitivities) about "how the music should be played."
Now if you want to have a conversation about learning to play this music and expecting to be accepted by the main community of Irish traditional musicians, then we can explore what it means to play this music with a good grasp of the tradition, the tunes, regional styles, personal styles, the heritage of generations of players before us, and other bits to do with "authenticity."
But I don't see anything at all wrong with the folks in the OP clip playing this music and calling it Irish traditional music.
Besides, there are no universal rules for this stuff. Every session has its own preferences, expectations, and musical sense. Even within a single given session, these are flexible and apt to change depending on who's sitting in the circle any particular time, from week to week, and even over the course of a single evening.
Bear in mind, too, that (according to Hammy Hamilton and others who've researched this) sessions as we know them today originated not in Ireland but among Irish ex-pats in the US and England back in the mid 1900s. The Irish (and certainly not just those in Ireland) don't have a monopoly on this music.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I don't think it's got anything to do with where they are from or authenticity or their right to do it or what they call it or anything like that. It was just boring. Flat and dull. End of.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Will, That's good. Timbuktu plays may not follow anyone's rules to play their music. You are right. But if they are playing, say, reels in 60 bpm on very-very hard guitars and basses and call it 'irish traditional' just because tunes were written in Ireland - it's something odd ,don't you think?
As for me - tradtion is what we keep. As you've said "the heritage of generations of players before us". Styles. Our passion to play it in the way as it was done before. To successfully accomplish this (and to have the right to say, that we are traditional) - we MUST learn to play as masters played, we MUST distinguish between styles and we MUST treat this music very carefully. It is the only way (for me) to call it 'traditional music'. Once we add something from ourselves - it ceases to be authnetic tradition. Though we might like the new-age sound and everything.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
You wonder how "... people in other countries claim to be playing "traditional" music." That's probably what it said on the sheet music they learned it from. They sounded bored to me. The guitarist couldn't tap his foot in time, the drummer was listening to the match, or something, and they didn't work together at all -- no eye contact, let alone spiritual contact. The tunes may be traditional, but a few pints of guinness might have added authenticity to the atmosphere, especially if it was me who drank them.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
gam, thank you. You've got the point. It sounds boring. I've searched for some information on irish music in Russia and discovered, that Session on stage (have you seen any session on stage in their videos? lol!) obviously isn't the best band there.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
You guys are too serious, those who criticise the likes of SOS, better go and support Mr. MacMahon's view on contemporary Irish music scene, this particular case has caused much less trouble to the music than bands like Lunasa in Ireland)) Good PR for the SOS band, by the way. I'm on traditional side of things myself but I also think they're a nice band and a very good match for the mixed dancers community of St. Petersburg (Ceili dancers, Scottish Country Dancers, a few set dancers etc.) While I don't enjoy listening to classical fiddlers playing traditional music, many other people in the audience don't enjoy listening to the 'raw' traditional music, preferring a 'sweeter' approach. The appreciation for the old music needs to grow on around here. Thank God each year we have several great musicians coming with concerts, workshops and, most importantly, inspiration. Yet I don't see anything criminal in that bands like that appear all around the world, and it's quite amusing someone found it surprising or even insulting. Just two weeks ago we had Timmy 'The Brit' McCarthy's workshops and we played at a ceili night together, with the Session on Stage incidentally playing at the same place at the same time after us. Believe it or not, not only did Timmy like them, he also called their percussioist Misha 'the best bodhran player in the world' and noted his 'great feel for polka pulse'. Seems you lack same kind of positive comments about you, thePrivateer1960, don't you? Post something on youtube, I think people will appreciate your nice traditional approach to the music, if you have it.
We have lots more fine musicians, some being quite 'authentic' in their approach, if you like. Several uilleann pipers as well, two or three having quite a talent. Your appeal to the 'bear' title is very childish. Irish musicians coming to Russia or living here are very fond of local people trying to play and interpret the tradition. Like it or not, Irish music does not belong to one certain place, not anymore.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Bregolas ---
Irish music belong's to Ireland like Scottish music to Scotland,
Like FootBall ( Or Soccer if your from over the pond ) belong's to England - But I think to Not share this music to Anyone who like's it as we do here -- '' Well it's simply not Cricket '' - lol...
jim,,,
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Do you really think so oO? That means, Irish musicians in America are outsiders too?
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by big_tab
"Privateer..Them boys have as much ownership of this music as you.. none..its for everybody and that is worth celebrating."
Totally agreed. They say in Sliabh Luachra, when someone asks, where that mysterious Sliabh Luachra is:
"Sliabh Luachra is a state of mind"
I think that can be applied to Irish music in general. Not every citizen of Ireland likes or cherishes Irish traditional music. I'd say, it might be still the minority of them. But on the other hand, some fine exponents of the tradition are not Irish at all. Take late Alain Froment (R.I.P.) or Patrick Ourceau - they both played and still play an important part in Irish traditional music world. The world, which is unlikely to have any borders and owners.
If I'm not mistaken - it is one of the musicians opinion.
It is hard to understand what does he meant, because of sloppy google-translate, but some thoughts are worth seeing
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The world is very small indeed. All ITM community of the bear country was watching this discussion thread closely, you know
Ah, yes. Next time you want to make fun of our beloved ninja-trained combat bears - please note that they're always hungry and have no sense of humor. Beware!
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
< Could bears be reintroduced to Ireland ? >
The Russian's must have already got here, Year's ago - lol.
Last time I was in here, there was the Bone's of a Bear ..
'' And that the Bare Bone's of that '' : )
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
BREAKING NEWS! SERIAL KILLER IN NORTHERN PALMYRA! 120 MURDERS IN A ROW, 767 MORE PENDING! BREAKING NEWS! SERIAL KILLER IN NORTHERN PALMYRA! 120 MURDERS IN A ROW, 767 MORE PENDING! I'M AN IDIOT SOMEONE KILL ME! BREAKING NEWS! SERIAL KILLER IN NORTHERN PALMYRA! 120 MURDERS IN A ROW, 767 MORE PENDING!
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
You're still here! Thank you.
We were reading this really interesting discussion for 3 days and tried to stay away but then we couldn't help us to laugh. Sorry
All because it was so funny to find that the posting person made some investigation, translated from Russian and used as his argument the text which was written by the person who had built that dubious Session on Stage band
The subject is really interesting.
Actually my friends have a lot of links on the interesting things going on in Russia's Irish music but I'm afraid it's too late.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
To FIDDLE4
Ho ho, I know this guy with the fiddle from the first youtube clip.
He is from the town of Voronezh and is quite a beginner, though he's a great addict of Irish fiddling.
I have not heard of him for long time. The problem is that he is there alone in his town and doesn't have any companions to play and learn with.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
That is main Russian eh trouble for now. All people who are really learning some tradition are not having a band yet or have just started a band a year or two ago and audience doesn't know them too much.
I might be wrong somewhere but the best Moscow musicians are like that.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
thePrivateer1960 is 100% corretc. It is straight - and it is one of the most boring our videos (and very difficult performance)
I hope to upload couple new things.
If someone is interested I also could tell my main opinion to the subject of Bear ITM here.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
@evikki: I enjoyed the "Russian guys" clips you linked! But on the "Sandy's Band" page only the second clip worked, for unknown technical reasons.
Very enjoyable!
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Yes I though your friend and mine was a young learner - That is a Problem, Being on you own learning '' any'' music. I Had to Teach myself the fiddle, but at least I could go no more that 20 miles to play with Heavy ITM player's - Thank God for old Tape recorder's and a few Fleadh's back then -
jim,,,
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
@thePrivateer1960: their jokes were so much biased that it would certainly involve some sort of a poison. But definitely not the Guinness one, and even not the Jameson's. I tried and it didn't work while it was clear to see that they do have their bursts of laughter, so my question was what IS the substance and where can I get the supply.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I've been contemplating a lot here on the language matters......What I am thinking about now is an Irish gaelic word Bearla. Normally it means "the English language" but it seems to me it is just a contraction of the words Bear & la(nguage) - ie. - the Bear Language or the language of the land of Bears.
So, these guys and myself sometimes speak Bearla.
It is funny that only now – when we dismiss the 'Session on Stage' – someone had time and interest to comment some of the band's videos.
Our performance at St Pete’s Samhain festival will be the last one. So unfortunately «But take away the sheet music, give them a year or two» won’t work for this particular band.
Let me thank you all for that discussion. There some very important arguments from both sides. I should bow to all who support – and even more to those who criticized.
Both sides are absolutely correct, and both are telling the things which are really important.
So if you are interested in my position…
1. The local background
When we formed that band I tried to build something really more traditional and the same time professional than what we had before. Mostly good musicians had been founding a folk-rock or country-folk or ‘kinda-folk’ bands. And those who tried to play more ‘authentic’ music usually played in very small combos somewhere out of stage.
Unfortunately in St Pete the 'competency' and 'traditional style' used to be almost opposite things. 'Good' musicians here rarely want to ‘limit’ themselves to ‘copy’ some style. And also most of good ‘folk’ musicians want to represent themselves through music not 'only' be part of some tradition.
The exceptions are rare and we still have no bands both traditional and 'professional' at the same time. All that is still a studying. So it is like kind of la Manche between 'over-educated' fiddlers with their 'classical' or barocco approaches and enthusiasts who really want to be part of tradition but mostly have some basic musical troubles.
Should 'traditional music' be not only traditional but also musical?
And the special situation here is that the only audience for ITM are the dancers. It might be strange but here all kinds of dances including sets, ceili dances, Breton, Scottish and even solo are mixed on concerts. And there's no audience to 'just music' which might be good in some way but also leads to some limitations and lack of responsibility from musicians.
2. The Session on Stage
« In my opinion this video does not represent the closest we can get to Irish traditional style.»
- That is absolutely true. It represents (poorly) what we used to have in particular city some years ago. And now this band had fulfilled its mission. This is our maximum. 5 years ago it had more sense then now.
I play a lot of music and I have a lot to 'invent' in other styles. I don't want to make anything new in trad style – it is just a long way to understand the tradition. And the more experience I have the older trad bands I like listening. And I do want to hear something more traditional from soloists. But it is not how everyone feels in the band. And they have their own right to that.
The link you have posted is not really representing any band because it was a session with Australian piper/DADGAD player Greg Dolan and the former member of S.o.S. on bouzouki with Elena, the soloist of the Celtic City Experience. I quit that band in 2005 to start S.o.S and Greg Dolan made a very nice music when was living here and inspired many.
For me the sound in this video is very bad (so you can’t actually listen to anything but violin), and violin is out of tune for some reasons. The best part was atmosphere and dancers there.
One of the point in S.o.S. was to start first DADGAD using band in StPete. And we did that. We also used tried a bouzouki (twice) but then lost it… first time because I still wanted a bit more traditional way of playing from everyone – but starting with the rhythm section which I understand much more. And second because of lack of just basic musical problems of bouzoukist. And - yes, in general we do not use the jembe very often excluding the Breton program. Michael uses old school type of bodhran and I'm happy with that.
3. As for the bears – well it wasn't really suitable for educated gentlemen to use such a fake label according to any land I suppose. It may be is okey to some part of American rednecks (I really do mean ‘part’ when I say that) but European people are suppose to be more familiar with what’s going on in neighborhood. Just imagine that it is only a 2 325 km from St Pete to Dublin (we also say sometimes ‘Tuda blin’ – which means – ‘there, oh feck’). And from St Pete to Habarovsk (East of Russia) – 8894 km.
That one who talks about bears (we are more BEER country now I suppose) doesn't know (for example) about the Brian Finnegan is working with local Aquarium super rock band. Actually right now he is performing in Moscow's Samhain festival. And a lot of dancing and musical teachers are bringing this culture here.
We had Andy Irwin, Paddy Kinnan, Daithi Sproule, Brian Finnegan, Moya Brennan in Moscow or St Pete and we are waiting for Lunasa band in January. Also some teachers who give dance and music workshops including top names like Breandan de Gallai, Michael Flatley, Colin Dunne and more 'traditional' guys like Tim O'Neil, Timmy 'The Brit' McCarthy and others.
And that weeds will grow some day. This culture belongs to Ireland same way as jazz belongs to USA or Samba music to Brasil. And I think Ireland should keep some responsibility now about all that – or why you made that music so nice
So it's not really bear country as Ireland is I suppose not the country of drunken tinkers in a gutters.
4. Final
Anyway. Let the bears live somewhere.
Russia has more the 15 years of attempt to play Irish Folk Music. I should ban myself from saying ‘traditional’ – we may be don’t deserve it yet in St Pete but in Moscow there is real traditional movement indeed.
As for rock or jazz or any other music – that all has to take some time. First of all we had just some musicians with some first sheets, then we got a bunch of bands playing ‘folk-rock-or-something’. I think that at some point St Pete lost that advantage to develop trad style.
Now there is at list one band of 'young' guys who really try to play simple music in traditional manner. They might not have too much experience but they work on it.
And also there are few professional musicians also interested in this theme but they just have been started.
My opinion is that in St Pete we had only two 'competent' bands trying to play some trad music Celtic City Experience and Session on Stage. I quit one to make another 5 years ago and now I quit the last one to continue my education.
Finally that all changed something in a city but now it is a new time. Everything will come here in St Pete – later than in Moscow. There will be another bands and faces.
So don't judge all Russian trad music by this band. See links above and be positive – the bears will do something. I understand your feeling – we also fight for our own national music and try to keep it clean and alive at the same time.
Evgeny, Session on Stage band from St Petersburg.
Actually we also finally uploading some better videos with Irish and Breton melodies. We had no time to that while preparing a Samhain festival. May be you like that clips more. Check it tomorrow. http://www.youtube.com/user/SessiononStage#p/u
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
LOL even if you have your blog in Chinese, someone like Privateer will find you and GOOGLETRANSLATE you))) You cannot escape your fate! Try googletranslating all your discussions in advance, so that the google machine breaks down trying to googletranslate already googletranslated text.
Vikki, you almost made us believe that Privateer is your virtual self by standing in the shadow and keeping silent ) Seriously!
"For me the sound in this video is very bad (so you can’t actually listen to anything but violin), and violin is out of tune for some reasons. The best part was atmosphere and dancers there."
Ну ты всё-таки и зануда, братец)) Баланс, соглашусь, хреновый, но чтобы заметить, что скрипка расстроилась?.. Иногда лучше допустить небольшой нестрояк, но избежать УГ - конкретно с этим Лена неплохо справляется, hence the atmosphere, остальное выходит за рамки дискуссии ))
A good and thorough insight on adventures of Irish traditional music in St. Petersburg, however subjective it might be. I'd only add you keep forgetting ReelRoadЪ band, whose first album for some reason has become a landmark in ITM in Russia, some of the sets made popular exclusively by them. However 'out of tradition' they are, they might be called professional musicians too. Greg Dolan, who can be heard on their first album, is a fine traditional musician allright.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I don't mean local bands Reelroad or Old Horned Sheep because it is folk-rock or country folk - and nothing to do with attempt to play traditional music. (which does not mean it's bad).
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
And first Reelroad album was neither professional nor traditional
And now they play Russian music (also not traditional style but good sound at the end)
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
evikki, great to have you joined to our discussion. And you have made your point very clear. It doesn't matter if some band or individual musicians plays badly, classical, non-classical or non-traditional at any given point of time. Just as long as he (or them) understands where he is going to. I've always disturbed by the people who are wearing horse blinders and seeing nothing except their own fantasies.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Thank you - I absolutely agree on you. Just wait a bit and you'll see much more.
I think even after local Samhains we will have some good videos.
Cheers
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I love it when people make comments about someone else in the internet, and then they discover that the world is actually very small, and find themselves having to explain their comments to that someone.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
"It doesn't matter if some band or individual musicians plays badly, classical, non-classical or non-traditional at any given point of time. Just as long as he (or them) understands where he is going to."
That is what I agree. Whatever level it stoop me down.
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
From the poster's description on YouTube:
"Second theme from an old soviet teenage flick. Fake live as you can see, but listen to the music. It's a drummer Vladimir Vasilkov and his boys. Unreleased material from USSR, good done!"
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The English translation of the film title is "Woodpeckers don't get headaches." I don't know much about Soviet films, but I've seen the original Solaris, and it's clear from that that the Soviets could make cool films.
ITM as it is being understood in bears country
ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Hi everyone,
Funny slip-jig set by some russian band:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3wIoBY9e68
I've found this video while searching for some masterpieces of traditional music. I wonder how it is possible for some people in other countries claim to be playing "traditional" music. It is more like "trend" or fashion label.
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I thought that was really nice, actually!
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by nicholas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I thought it was ok actually. Nice enough playing and they seemed to enjoy playing it, as I'm sure their audience enjoyed listening; also it was played at a nice steady pace and you could here the notes - unlike some of the young bands coming out of Ireland these days who seem to think that speed is the ultimate virtue. Even the drums, which I'm not normally a fan of, were played quite sympathetically.
I don't see what the problem is, if there is one.
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Not too bad really. I have seen flasher playing and so on but so what? Fair play to them. I see they have some other videos up. I have not seen the whole of this one but I really liked what I did see:
http://www.youtube.com/user/SessiononStage#p/a/u/1/6fcUOYMz8N8
Nice guitar playing at the start.
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Reporting from bear country
. In my opinion this video does not represent the closest we can get to Irish traditional style.
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by Elvellon
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
thePrivateer1960 - These people have probably had very little exposure to 'real' Irish trad, apart from perhaps a few commercial recordings. I have no doubt they would love nothing more than to go to Ireland and be immersed in the real thing - perhaps finances, immigration etc. make it difficult.
I had the experience, about 12 years ago, of playing with a band in Riga, Latvia. I was a novice myself on mandolin, coming from England and never having been to Ireland - but I was the closest available thing to an authentic Irish traditional player. There was a small core of us with a real passion for Irish Traditional Music. The rest were on board because they were competent musicians - the hope was that they would develop an interest in the genre. The complete lack of awareness and understanding of this kind of music in Latvia at the time made it very difficult to find musicians with the same inclinations. We had a weekly residency in a pub and played occasional gigs elsewhere. We promoted ourselves as playing "Traditional Irish Music" (although we sometimes got billed as "Irish Folk Music", "Ancient Irish Music" and other bizarre distortions) because that was what we were trying to play, and it made no sense to call it anything else.
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Here was my U-Tube comment to them ---
This is actually very very good - Loose the sight music - listen to some of the older Irish Player's come to Session's all around - And I think you guy's will go far...
If you need help with link's to Real old style Irish music -- Send me a Message with your Email on it -- and I'll send you some ... jim,,,
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
"Reporting from bear country
. In my opinion this video does not represent the closest we can get to Irish traditional style."
Elvellon - Perhaps you could get over to Novgorod and show them a thing or two.
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Opps' Typo error - was ment to be -
< come to Session's all around - Ireland >
Sorry -- jim,,,
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I'm ashamed to admit this, but I have a complete lack of understanding and awareness of Latvian music!
Interesting post though, CreadurMawnOrganig.
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by nicholas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Good on them. We'd welcome them at our local session, and it'd be a hoot to land in Novgorod and sit in with them.
thePrivateer wrote: "I wonder how it is possible for some people in other countries claim to be playing "traditional" music. "
But that's precisely what they're doing, playing traditional music. Sure it'd be nice if the fluter was on a wooden flute, and swap out the bongos for a bodhran. But they're doing the best they can, with what they have, where they are. And doing it fairly well. Seems to me that this is what the folks generations ago were doing themselves in Ballydehob, Caherciveen, and Lahinch, eh?
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
privateer maybe we're missing your point, so would you mind explaining it again - to me at least.
I for one don't get why you can say the comment quoted above yet one of your links is to a mcknowall workshop http://www.mcknowall.com/
who although a well known and respected member of this site, resides in Australia..... AND he takes to do with bodhrans - yet on the session you submitted you say no bodhrans accepted....!!??
# Posted on October 24th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Yrndscrwlptl, I've just posted an info about the session with their own rules in Ballyshannon. Personally, I wouldn't say that bodhrans are evil. But either way we should follow the rules.
Guys, thanks for the comments. The topic was just to understand whether or not should we point musicians in oither countries, that claiming their music 'irish traditional' leads to some sort of responsibility. If you are 'traditional' then please be involved. Please keep learning different styles - Donegal, Kerry, etc. Please develop it or don't call it 'traditional'
These guys are quite good as nova-style musicians, of course, no prob's.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Hmmm. Just because someone in Timbuktu (or anywhere else) enjoys this music and wants to play it doesn't mean they have to follow anyone else's rules (or even sensitivities) about "how the music should be played."
Now if you want to have a conversation about learning to play this music and expecting to be accepted by the main community of Irish traditional musicians, then we can explore what it means to play this music with a good grasp of the tradition, the tunes, regional styles, personal styles, the heritage of generations of players before us, and other bits to do with "authenticity."
But I don't see anything at all wrong with the folks in the OP clip playing this music and calling it Irish traditional music.
Besides, there are no universal rules for this stuff. Every session has its own preferences, expectations, and musical sense. Even within a single given session, these are flexible and apt to change depending on who's sitting in the circle any particular time, from week to week, and even over the course of a single evening.
Bear in mind, too, that (according to Hammy Hamilton and others who've researched this) sessions as we know them today originated not in Ireland but among Irish ex-pats in the US and England back in the mid 1900s. The Irish (and certainly not just those in Ireland) don't have a monopoly on this music.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I don't think it's got anything to do with where they are from or authenticity or their right to do it or what they call it or anything like that. It was just boring. Flat and dull. End of.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by ...
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Will, That's good. Timbuktu plays may not follow anyone's rules to play their music. You are right. But if they are playing, say, reels in 60 bpm on very-very hard guitars and basses and call it 'irish traditional' just because tunes were written in Ireland - it's something odd ,don't you think?
As for me - tradtion is what we keep. As you've said "the heritage of generations of players before us". Styles. Our passion to play it in the way as it was done before. To successfully accomplish this (and to have the right to say, that we are traditional) - we MUST learn to play as masters played, we MUST distinguish between styles and we MUST treat this music very carefully. It is the only way (for me) to call it 'traditional music'. Once we add something from ourselves - it ceases to be authnetic tradition. Though we might like the new-age sound and everything.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Nonsense. Traditional music is people playing traditional tunes for the enjoyment of themselves and others .
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by big_tab
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Except that, with this music, it's traditional to add something of yourself
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by ...
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
?
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by big_tab
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Privateer..Them boys have as much ownership of this music as you.. none..its for everybody and that is worth celebrating.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by big_tab
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
What lovely music. Well if they ever did a CD of music similiar to this video I'd be buying one. Love that jig "The Maid At The Well".
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Perhaps they are playing for the enjoyment of the bears.
In Ireland, there are not many bears to play for.
This is how traditions come to vary - innit?
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by nicholas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
There's this fiddler
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_318_6_keyreel_raskolenko/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjZDcM2GOMA
And more great musicians which aren't on Youtube. I can dig and post the audio.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by Elvellon
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
You wonder how "... people in other countries claim to be playing "traditional" music." That's probably what it said on the sheet music they learned it from. They sounded bored to me. The guitarist couldn't tap his foot in time, the drummer was listening to the match, or something, and they didn't work together at all -- no eye contact, let alone spiritual contact. The tunes may be traditional, but a few pints of guinness might have added authenticity to the atmosphere, especially if it was me who drank them.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by gam
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Gam --- I'd join that gunness band too - lol..
But take away the sheet music, give them a year or two,,
And those Bear's just might bite back - lol...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YYeyg9jIKE
jim,,,
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
gam, thank you. You've got the point. It sounds boring. I've searched for some information on irish music in Russia and discovered, that Session on stage (have you seen any session on stage in their videos? lol!) obviously isn't the best band there.
Another one is way too better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0PsNV7ngrE
They've got even sean-nos there:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3E-hxDZIaI
So maybe they have some future
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
You guys are too serious, those who criticise the likes of SOS, better go and support Mr. MacMahon's view on contemporary Irish music scene, this particular case has caused much less trouble to the music than bands like Lunasa in Ireland)) Good PR for the SOS band, by the way. I'm on traditional side of things myself but I also think they're a nice band and a very good match for the mixed dancers community of St. Petersburg (Ceili dancers, Scottish Country Dancers, a few set dancers etc.) While I don't enjoy listening to classical fiddlers playing traditional music, many other people in the audience don't enjoy listening to the 'raw' traditional music, preferring a 'sweeter' approach. The appreciation for the old music needs to grow on around here. Thank God each year we have several great musicians coming with concerts, workshops and, most importantly, inspiration. Yet I don't see anything criminal in that bands like that appear all around the world, and it's quite amusing someone found it surprising or even insulting. Just two weeks ago we had Timmy 'The Brit' McCarthy's workshops and we played at a ceili night together, with the Session on Stage incidentally playing at the same place at the same time after us. Believe it or not, not only did Timmy like them, he also called their percussioist Misha 'the best bodhran player in the world' and noted his 'great feel for polka pulse'. Seems you lack same kind of positive comments about you, thePrivateer1960, don't you? Post something on youtube, I think people will appreciate your nice traditional approach to the music, if you have it.
We have lots more fine musicians, some being quite 'authentic' in their approach, if you like. Several uilleann pipers as well, two or three having quite a talent. Your appeal to the 'bear' title is very childish. Irish musicians coming to Russia or living here are very fond of local people trying to play and interpret the tradition. Like it or not, Irish music does not belong to one certain place, not anymore.
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by Bregolas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Hurray for you for trying to take a deeper insight anyway. Some people would find this topic quite interesting
More links?
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by Bregolas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Bregolas ---
Irish music belong's to Ireland like Scottish music to Scotland,
Like FootBall ( Or Soccer if your from over the pond ) belong's to England - But I think to Not share this music to Anyone who like's it as we do here -- '' Well it's simply not Cricket '' - lol...
jim,,,
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Do you really think so oO? That means, Irish musicians in America are outsiders too?
# Posted on October 25th 2010 by big_tab
"Privateer..Them boys have as much ownership of this music as you.. none..its for everybody and that is worth celebrating."
Totally agreed. They say in Sliabh Luachra, when someone asks, where that mysterious Sliabh Luachra is:
"Sliabh Luachra is a state of mind"
I think that can be applied to Irish music in general. Not every citizen of Ireland likes or cherishes Irish traditional music. I'd say, it might be still the minority of them. But on the other hand, some fine exponents of the tradition are not Irish at all. Take late Alain Froment (R.I.P.) or Patrick Ourceau - they both played and still play an important part in Irish traditional music world. The world, which is unlikely to have any borders and owners.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by Bregolas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
"Irish music belongs to Ireland" Utter codswallop.
But at least we know it's codswallop ... as illustrated by the equal codswallop of soccer belongs to England. Ha ha ha, as if.
How about "drumming belongs to Africa"?
Or photography belongs to France?
Or printing belongs to China?
Utter complete codswallop
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by ...
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Actually Codswallop belongs to England
( Its the name of one of the earliest fizzy lemonade makers)
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by bazouki dave
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
ha, great.
(but where do apostrophe pedants belong?)
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by ...
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
How about irony doesn't belong on the internet ?
I understood what you meant FIDDLE4.
Isn't Codswallop somewhere in Worcestershire, near Wyre Piddle ?
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by David50
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
One more interesting discussion about "authentic Russian Irish":
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://evikki.livejournal.com/1067528.html
If I'm not mistaken - it is one of the musicians opinion.
It is hard to understand what does he meant, because of sloppy google-translate, but some thoughts are worth seeing
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
What I ment is a Very Small world, and we should share alol
more with each other, than just ITM ....
jim,,,
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
oh man. I should better translate it by myself here )))
evikki
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The world is very small indeed. All ITM community of the bear country was watching this discussion thread closely, you know
Ah, yes. Next time you want to make fun of our beloved ninja-trained combat bears - please note that they're always hungry and have no sense of humor. Beware!
Чмоке всем в этом чятике.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Watching closely, indeed
. Lotsa fun ))).
Чмоке\ Kissis
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Oh my Godness, here they come... With Comrade Khruschev on their backs
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Beware - we are 200 millions (including bears)
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
How many without Bears ?
Could bears be reintroduced to Ireland ?
Sounds a wonderful idea
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by bazouki dave
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Without we have something about 199.997
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Sorry I mean 199.999.997 Russians and three bears
A prooflink:
http://art.rin.ru/images/gal40_3.jpg
The big one is dead, she swallowed a jembe.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
And we don't count the big one - Medvedev - he won't go as he likes Deep Purple more then Irish music.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
He likes Bono - isn't Bono the Irish Music?
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I am Bono, the musician
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
< Could bears be reintroduced to Ireland ? >
The Russian's must have already got here, Year's ago - lol.
Last time I was in here, there was the Bone's of a Bear ..
'' And that the Bare Bone's of that '' : )
http://www.aillweecave.ie/Aillwee_Cave_Disc.htm
jim,,,
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Oh those Russian..... they've killed an interesting thread :((( ....
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Don't blame us you goddam Ukrainian teddy bear!
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Or we will come and eat all your SALO
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
No wai - ukranians are too good in hiding it. And, since I'm here here:
GIVE THE KRYM BACK!!! ODESSA AND SEVASTOPOL ARE RUSSIAN CITIES!!!11 KILL ME I AM AN IDIOT!!!!1111oneoneeleven
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Ooops, wrong: Viking is a fake Ukrainian. We'll get neither salo nor Crimea from him.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Oh bastard. Is he a real Viking after all? Can we got government from him at least ?
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
"KILL ME I AM AN IDIOT"
Your request could not be completed. We in St Pete have no money to travel to Moscow. Please send some.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Not sure, but hope so: ex-hippie would make a better Grand Knyaz than an ex-KGB-man anyway
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
"Your request could not be completed. We in St Pete have no money to travel to Moscow"
But I have some! I will be at spb this sunday at your Greatest ITM Event in SPB Ever (not kidding, actually!!!111). Will you kill me? PLZ!!!!!11111
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Okey. Youк number is 987
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
BREAKING NEWS! SERIAL KILLER IN NORTHERN PALMYRA! 120 MURDERS IN A ROW, 767 MORE PENDING! BREAKING NEWS! SERIAL KILLER IN NORTHERN PALMYRA! 120 MURDERS IN A ROW, 767 MORE PENDING! I'M AN IDIOT SOMEONE KILL ME! BREAKING NEWS! SERIAL KILLER IN NORTHERN PALMYRA! 120 MURDERS IN A ROW, 767 MORE PENDING!
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I give up. U r the first now.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
People are just the same all over the world - ie- Cant agree for 5min's -- lol,,, I thought the post above for a min, Read -
NORTHERN IRELAND instead of NORTHERN PALMYRA
Ha ! Ha! : )
jim,,,
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
You're still here! Thank you.
We were reading this really interesting discussion for 3 days and tried to stay away but then we couldn't help us to laugh. Sorry
All because it was so funny to find that the posting person made some investigation, translated from Russian and used as his argument the text which was written by the person who had built that dubious Session on Stage band
The subject is really interesting.
Actually my friends have a lot of links on the interesting things going on in Russia's Irish music but I'm afraid it's too late.
# Posted on October 26th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
At least that all moved us to upload some video which represent a band much more than worst of our last performances.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Here's a wee friend of mine on Youtube - I sent stuff to ,he's doing ok -- And Come's from Russia -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QraJyTMzn3k
Look's a bit like a Mate of mine centre, of this Band I fill in for sometime - lol..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QraJyTMzn3k
jim,,,
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Oop's second link was ment to be this one -
http://www.hastetothewedding.com/index.htm
Sorry- jim,,,
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
To FIDDLE4
Ho ho, I know this guy with the fiddle from the first youtube clip.
He is from the town of Voronezh and is quite a beginner, though he's a great addict of Irish fiddling.
I have not heard of him for long time. The problem is that he is there alone in his town and doesn't have any companions to play and learn with.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
That is main Russian eh trouble for now. All people who are really learning some tradition are not having a band yet or have just started a band a year or two ago and audience doesn't know them too much.
I might be wrong somewhere but the best Moscow musicians are like that.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Couple links to Russian guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjZDcM2GOMA&feature=autofb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLg9lRBimNY&feature=related
http://sandysband.narod.ru/listen.html
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The most terrific thing can happen to a Russian joke is to be translated to English.
What I am most interested, though, is what's your poison guys and where do you get it?
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by courteouselk
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
courteouselk, there's nothing wrong to tell the musicians, that they are playing too boring and too straight. Why do you think it's a poison?
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
thePrivateer1960 is 100% corretc. It is straight - and it is one of the most boring our videos (and very difficult performance)
I hope to upload couple new things.
If someone is interested I also could tell my main opinion to the subject of Bear ITM here.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
@evikki: I enjoyed the "Russian guys" clips you linked! But on the "Sandy's Band" page only the second clip worked, for unknown technical reasons.
Very enjoyable!
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Hans Bracker
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
And please voice your opinion about Bear ITM!
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Hans Bracker
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Also check the video of Moscow guy, the winner of bear bodhran championship-2010 in Ireland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a34BgHEaka8
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Yes I though your friend and mine was a young learner - That is a Problem, Being on you own learning '' any'' music. I Had to Teach myself the fiddle, but at least I could go no more that 20 miles to play with Heavy ITM player's - Thank God for old Tape recorder's and a few Fleadh's back then -
jim,,,
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
http://www.worldbodhranchampionships.com/2010/?p=588
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Drunken piper
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
2Fiddel4: I'm not sure I get your idea correctly. Could you explain?
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
@thePrivateer1960: their jokes were so much biased that it would certainly involve some sort of a poison. But definitely not the Guinness one, and even not the Jameson's. I tried and it didn't work while it was clear to see that they do have their bursts of laughter, so my question was what IS the substance and where can I get the supply.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by courteouselk
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
это он типа на нас наехал или чего? эх, говорила мама - учи языки. ничего не понял.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
или на них? рассудите, православные. где аспиды-то?
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Я вот уже предвкушаю, как будут недоумевать аборигены, пытаясь перевести твои комменты гугл-транслейтом
Про слово "чятике" меня уже спрашивали
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The Russians seem to be making their best to derail this thread and escape responsibility.
2evikki courteouselk пытается выяснить, что вы тут курили/пили и хочет тоже
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Well Viking of Kiev
It make a change from Irish - But I cant understand that
language either -- lol..
jim,,,
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I've been contemplating a lot here on the language matters......What I am thinking about now is an Irish gaelic word Bearla. Normally it means "the English language" but it seems to me it is just a contraction of the words Bear & la(nguage) - ie. - the Bear Language or the language of the land of Bears.
So, these guys and myself sometimes speak Bearla.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
P.S. This really makes me somewhat puzzled.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I really want to stay serious and I will post my opinion soon. Sorry to everyone.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
From the band's guy
It is funny that only now – when we dismiss the 'Session on Stage' – someone had time and interest to comment some of the band's videos.
Our performance at St Pete’s Samhain festival will be the last one. So unfortunately «But take away the sheet music, give them a year or two» won’t work for this particular band.
Let me thank you all for that discussion. There some very important arguments from both sides. I should bow to all who support – and even more to those who criticized.
Both sides are absolutely correct, and both are telling the things which are really important.
So if you are interested in my position…
1. The local background
When we formed that band I tried to build something really more traditional and the same time professional than what we had before. Mostly good musicians had been founding a folk-rock or country-folk or ‘kinda-folk’ bands. And those who tried to play more ‘authentic’ music usually played in very small combos somewhere out of stage.
Unfortunately in St Pete the 'competency' and 'traditional style' used to be almost opposite things. 'Good' musicians here rarely want to ‘limit’ themselves to ‘copy’ some style. And also most of good ‘folk’ musicians want to represent themselves through music not 'only' be part of some tradition.
The exceptions are rare and we still have no bands both traditional and 'professional' at the same time. All that is still a studying. So it is like kind of la Manche between 'over-educated' fiddlers with their 'classical' or barocco approaches and enthusiasts who really want to be part of tradition but mostly have some basic musical troubles.
Should 'traditional music' be not only traditional but also musical?
And the special situation here is that the only audience for ITM are the dancers. It might be strange but here all kinds of dances including sets, ceili dances, Breton, Scottish and even solo are mixed on concerts. And there's no audience to 'just music' which might be good in some way but also leads to some limitations and lack of responsibility from musicians.
2. The Session on Stage
« In my opinion this video does not represent the closest we can get to Irish traditional style.»
- That is absolutely true. It represents (poorly) what we used to have in particular city some years ago. And now this band had fulfilled its mission. This is our maximum. 5 years ago it had more sense then now.
I play a lot of music and I have a lot to 'invent' in other styles. I don't want to make anything new in trad style – it is just a long way to understand the tradition. And the more experience I have the older trad bands I like listening. And I do want to hear something more traditional from soloists. But it is not how everyone feels in the band. And they have their own right to that.
by thePrivateer1960
'Another one is way too better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0PsNV7ngrE '
The link you have posted is not really representing any band because it was a session with Australian piper/DADGAD player Greg Dolan and the former member of S.o.S. on bouzouki with Elena, the soloist of the Celtic City Experience. I quit that band in 2005 to start S.o.S and Greg Dolan made a very nice music when was living here and inspired many.
For me the sound in this video is very bad (so you can’t actually listen to anything but violin), and violin is out of tune for some reasons. The best part was atmosphere and dancers there.
That’s what we did in Celtic City Experience band in 2004 (with me playing bodhran):
http://samhainspb.ru/offtop/celtic_city_experience_(feat_evikki_bodhran)-polkas.mp3
After I left they had some changes but still developed that rock guitar and kinda-Scottish fiddle style (as I understand that).
One of the point in S.o.S. was to start first DADGAD using band in StPete. And we did that. We also used tried a bouzouki (twice) but then lost it… first time because I still wanted a bit more traditional way of playing from everyone – but starting with the rhythm section which I understand much more. And second because of lack of just basic musical problems of bouzoukist. And - yes, in general we do not use the jembe very often excluding the Breton program. Michael uses old school type of bodhran and I'm happy with that.
3. As for the bears – well it wasn't really suitable for educated gentlemen to use such a fake label according to any land I suppose. It may be is okey to some part of American rednecks (I really do mean ‘part’ when I say that) but European people are suppose to be more familiar with what’s going on in neighborhood. Just imagine that it is only a 2 325 km from St Pete to Dublin (we also say sometimes ‘Tuda blin’ – which means – ‘there, oh feck’). And from St Pete to Habarovsk (East of Russia) – 8894 km.
That one who talks about bears (we are more BEER country now I suppose) doesn't know (for example) about the Brian Finnegan is working with local Aquarium super rock band. Actually right now he is performing in Moscow's Samhain festival. And a lot of dancing and musical teachers are bringing this culture here.
We had Andy Irwin, Paddy Kinnan, Daithi Sproule, Brian Finnegan, Moya Brennan in Moscow or St Pete and we are waiting for Lunasa band in January. Also some teachers who give dance and music workshops including top names like Breandan de Gallai, Michael Flatley, Colin Dunne and more 'traditional' guys like Tim O'Neil, Timmy 'The Brit' McCarthy and others.
And that weeds will grow some day. This culture belongs to Ireland same way as jazz belongs to USA or Samba music to Brasil. And I think Ireland should keep some responsibility now about all that – or why you made that music so nice
So it's not really bear country as Ireland is I suppose not the country of drunken tinkers in a gutters.
4. Final
Anyway. Let the bears live somewhere.
Russia has more the 15 years of attempt to play Irish Folk Music. I should ban myself from saying ‘traditional’ – we may be don’t deserve it yet in St Pete but in Moscow there is real traditional movement indeed.
As for rock or jazz or any other music – that all has to take some time. First of all we had just some musicians with some first sheets, then we got a bunch of bands playing ‘folk-rock-or-something’. I think that at some point St Pete lost that advantage to develop trad style.
Now there is at list one band of 'young' guys who really try to play simple music in traditional manner. They might not have too much experience but they work on it.
And also there are few professional musicians also interested in this theme but they just have been started.
My opinion is that in St Pete we had only two 'competent' bands trying to play some trad music Celtic City Experience and Session on Stage. I quit one to make another 5 years ago and now I quit the last one to continue my education.
Finally that all changed something in a city but now it is a new time. Everything will come here in St Pete – later than in Moscow. There will be another bands and faces.
So don't judge all Russian trad music by this band. See links above and be positive – the bears will do something. I understand your feeling – we also fight for our own national music and try to keep it clean and alive at the same time.
Evgeny, Session on Stage band from St Petersburg.
Actually we also finally uploading some better videos with Irish and Breton melodies. We had no time to that while preparing a Samhain festival. May be you like that clips more. Check it tomorrow.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SessiononStage#p/u
P.S. I am sorry for long letter.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
LOL even if you have your blog in Chinese, someone like Privateer will find you and GOOGLETRANSLATE you))) You cannot escape your fate! Try googletranslating all your discussions in advance, so that the google machine breaks down trying to googletranslate already googletranslated text.
) Seriously!
Vikki, you almost made us believe that Privateer is your virtual self by standing in the shadow and keeping silent
"For me the sound in this video is very bad (so you can’t actually listen to anything but violin), and violin is out of tune for some reasons. The best part was atmosphere and dancers there."
Ну ты всё-таки и зануда, братец)) Баланс, соглашусь, хреновый, но чтобы заметить, что скрипка расстроилась?.. Иногда лучше допустить небольшой нестрояк, но избежать УГ - конкретно с этим Лена неплохо справляется, hence the atmosphere, остальное выходит за рамки дискуссии ))
A good and thorough insight on adventures of Irish traditional music in St. Petersburg, however subjective it might be. I'd only add you keep forgetting ReelRoadЪ band, whose first album for some reason has become a landmark in ITM in Russia, some of the sets made popular exclusively by them. However 'out of tradition' they are, they might be called professional musicians too. Greg Dolan, who can be heard on their first album, is a fine traditional musician allright.
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by Bregolas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I don't mean local bands Reelroad or Old Horned Sheep because it is folk-rock or country folk - and nothing to do with attempt to play traditional music. (which does not mean it's bad).
Unfortunately OHS does not have good video but this one (which is Breton)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjJHojBhIWE
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
And first Reelroad album was neither professional nor traditional
And now they play Russian music (also not traditional style but good sound at the end)
# Posted on October 27th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Viking --
My Bearla. ain't to good either - lol...
jim,,,
# Posted on October 28th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
@evikki: It's a pity the Sos is over. Really.
# Posted on October 28th 2010 by courteouselk
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The frost is all over!
# Posted on October 28th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Стоп. Что? ЧТОООО???
Лунаса в России в январе?!
Я требую подробностей!
# Posted on October 28th 2010 by breqwas
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
evikki, great to have you joined to our discussion. And you have made your point very clear. It doesn't matter if some band or individual musicians plays badly, classical, non-classical or non-traditional at any given point of time. Just as long as he (or them) understands where he is going to. I've always disturbed by the people who are wearing horse blinders and seeing nothing except their own fantasies.
# Posted on October 28th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Thank you - I absolutely agree on you. Just wait a bit and you'll see much more.
I think even after local Samhains we will have some good videos.
Cheers
# Posted on October 28th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
*agree with you )
# Posted on October 28th 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Agree? why stoop down to that level evikki? gawd Privateer, what a numptie you really are
# Posted on October 30th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Wanna try my Scottish firecracker, pal? So you can go like "gawd, Privateer! You're hung like a horse!".
# Posted on October 30th 2010 by thePrivateer1960
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I love it when people make comments about someone else in the internet, and then they discover that the world is actually very small, and find themselves having to explain their comments to that someone.
# Posted on October 30th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
It's not bad at all, the style may be off but it kind of works musically in its own way.
Nyah or not, the Ruskies certainly have the funk and have had it for a long time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGzxC7kXGb0
# Posted on October 30th 2010 by Marklar
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
"It doesn't matter if some band or individual musicians plays badly, classical, non-classical or non-traditional at any given point of time. Just as long as he (or them) understands where he is going to."
That is what I agree. Whatever level it stoop me down.
# Posted on October 31st 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I think this Soviet funk video is fake
# Posted on October 31st 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
^ it's not fake exactly, it's from a movie.
# Posted on October 31st 2010 by Marklar
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
Is it Soviet movie? The colors and stuff does not seem like
# Posted on October 31st 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
From the poster's description on YouTube:
"Second theme from an old soviet teenage flick. Fake live as you can see, but listen to the music. It's a drummer Vladimir Vasilkov and his boys. Unreleased material from USSR, good done!"
# Posted on October 31st 2010 by Marklar
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
I should investigate more. The picture is too cool for that time... I dont't know.
# Posted on October 31st 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The English translation of the film title is "Woodpeckers don't get headaches." I don't know much about Soviet films, but I've seen the original Solaris, and it's clear from that that the Soviets could make cool films.
# Posted on October 31st 2010 by Marklar
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
The English translation of the film title is almost literal:
the Russian original is "A woodpecker doesn't get headaches".
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Не_болит_голова_у_дятла (in Russian)
# Posted on November 1st 2010 by Viking of Kiev
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
"it's clear from that that the Soviets could make cool films"
Yes, they started long ago )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAEy6JSs44M&feature=related
and Tarkovsky also is one of the world's great teachers.
But not in ITM, of course )
# Posted on November 1st 2010 by evikki
Re: ITM as it is being understood in bears country
http://www.youtube.com/sessiononstage#p/a/u/0/HOUu8FNZXoQ
# Posted on November 3rd 2010 by evikki