Hi everyone!
I live in San Diego and have been playing traditional irish music for about a year-and-a-half now. I am seriously interested in taking up the uilleann pipes though I would need a lower priced set and I don't know who or where to buy from. Can anyone help with some useful info?
Thanks!
If you can get in with the local pipers, you will get pointed in the right direction.
I'm not a piper, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But you *really* want to avoid the cheaper sets out there, many of which were made in Pakistan, and are usually unplayable. It's generally a good idea with a difficult instrument like like the uilleann pipes, to learn on a decent instrument, because it is difficult to learn, even on a good set.
I seem to remember hearing years ago that the California Pipers Club (or maybe the San Francisco club) used to have a couple of practice sets to lend to interested players.
Also, look into Na Piobari Uilleann, the Irish piping association. I'm sure there's a wealth of info there too.
retreading much of what has been said before in other threads here and elsewhere,(uillean pipe forum on www.chiffandfipple.com) but but the teacher-apprentice model of learning the pipes has been successful for good reason, They are wonderfully complicated, Reeds are fickle, respond to humidity temperature and other undetermined factors. (Liam of o flynn's method of fixing a reed was to take it out and stare at it for a minute or so before replacing. He claimed to find this very sucessful).
Problems can come from the pipes themselves, inexperience the reed; and an experienced piper can smooth your path through all this. As well as some of the techniques. I have tried turors dvds etc but nothing beats having someone there who can trouble shoot all those issues,
Forget about buying anything inexpensive that is "uilleann".
(1) Buy the best chanter + bag + bellows (called practice set) from one of the best makers in the price range from $2400 - $3000. Buying a second hand practice set made by a top maker, if available, is a more meaningful route for a beginner. You are lucky: California has one of the best pipe makers on Earth: Michael Hubbert
homepage.mac.com/photomorphose/hubbert.html
If waiting is too long from a top American maker, contact Andreas Rogge (Germany); his workshop makes chanters and practice sets in a couple of months to help beginners start learning on high quality chanters ASAP.
(2) Immediately visit a reedmaking workshop and learn to make reeds. You are lucky again visit www.socalpipers.com
I made two serious mistakes in my learning the Irish pipes:
-- I started on an "economy" chanter
-- Learning reedmaking only after many years of frustration
The unfortunate phenomenon in Irish piping is that you cannot learn piping on an inferior instrument. You can learn Irish piping only when you have the best (expensive) chanter and (near) perfect reed.
Getting a good instrument is definitely requires determination.
It's true. You need a good chanter with a good reed, an airtight bag, and an efficient, airtight bellows. They are hard to make well and you pay a bit extra for an instrument that behaves as it should. It won't hop out of the case and start playing itself though; you will have to work hard to make even a top-of-the-line instrument sound good. Nothing's a gimme in piping, except that it takes time.
I agree with nemethmik and Seasamh. That said, there are makers who are turning out decent sounding practice sets in the $600-$700 range (at least that's what they were before the recession). I've played around on David Daye and Pat Sky chanters and while they were not (nor are intended to be) high performance chanters, they were solid enough to get you there and learn on. Basic practice sets from guys like Seth Gallagher, are (or were) about $1000. $600-$1000 isn't cheap but you're not going to pay less than that for a working set unless you're the luckiest guy in the world.
There are some good pipers around So Cal. The best thing to do is get in touch with them through the Southern Cali Piper's Club that nemethmik linked to above, as it is far better to learn this instrument from a person rather than a book.
Leave it to me to mention the obvious . If you want to learn the pipes, start by serving an apprenticeship on the Tin Whistle. The fingering is very similar and it makes life easier when you start on "the beast". You won't be chasing 5 rabbits at once, just 4.
Whilst you are doing this, you can be saving up for the pipes!
Rest of the advice is good. Get to know other pipers and learn from them what constitutes a "good" set. The basics are :-
1/ How "in tune"is the chanter with itself.
2/ Bag pressures - you should'nt need to develop an elbow like a vice!
3/ How easy is it to play in the second octave - it should be easy. You should be able to get EVERY note in the second octave as well !
4/ Try the Heather Clark(e?) tutor - its worth its money
5/ How easy is it to get replacement reeds made. You will need replacements at some stage.
6/ Spend your money on a good chanter. Its the heart of the instrument. In preference, buy one that can have keywork added later. That way it should be cheaper to start with!
7/ The bag and bellows need to be staunch. When inflated, you should be able to sit on them without air leeking out from anywhere.
8/ Start with a practice set (bag/bellows/chanter). Drones can be added later. When you do buy drones, make sure you buy a set that will take regulators.
I think thats about it - except to wish you the very best of good fortune - it is a worthy persuit indeed !
(The drones on the Daye pipes are actually easily removable, leaving you with basically a quarter/practice set. I will opine that having them in place and across your lap while learning JUST the chanter will lend to your comfort with the contraption later.)
When you have gained some command of the chanter, in say a few hundred years or so, you will then have a half-set so you can begin serving your REAL penance, suffering with pressure issues and tuning your drones.
Trust me on this, though -
do not even THINK about taking up the pipes without an honest, regular, reliable accessable teacher who wants to teach. There is nothing more miserable than unanswered questions and resorting to trial-and-error when it comes to the uilleanns.
I have some great advice, unfortunately due to the waiting list it wont be ready for 6 months to 2 years. but when you get it, boy it will be good.
Of course when I say 6 months to 2 years I really mean about 3 yrs, but dont tell anyone I told you!.
Phan: I'm up in Orange County, been playing uilleann pipes around 30 years, and will help in any way I can. You can get hold of me at 714-235-7789
Yes Michael Eskin is down there and I'm sure he can help.
We have uilleann piper's club meetings once a month up in San Juan Capistrano. It's fantastic for newbies because you can meet and chat with people at various stages in the learning process and see pipes by several different makers.
When beginners show up at my door I'm happy when they have a David Daye set because I know they having something that will WORK. Our local weather can be brutal on uilleann chanter reeds but I don't think anyone has ever shown up with a Daye chanter that didn't work right. Hard bottom D, soft bottom D, an in-tune scale, octaves working right, etc.
About Daye chanters and sets being unsuitable for actual performance, it isn't true, because the piper in Molly's Revenge toured and performed on a Daye halfset and it sounded great.
The only downside about Daye pipes is they usually have funky bellows, stocks, and bag. My advice would be to get top-quality bellows, stocks, bag, and blowpipe from Michael Macharg to play with your Daye chanter. Then everything will work perfectly.
The Southern California Uilleann Pipers Club annual Tionol is 11/5 through 11/7. See www.uilleannobsession.com for details. Come and talk, stay for the concert on Saturday night.
Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Hi everyone!
I live in San Diego and have been playing traditional irish music for about a year-and-a-half now. I am seriously interested in taking up the uilleann pipes though I would need a lower priced set and I don't know who or where to buy from. Can anyone help with some useful info?
Thanks!
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by Phan Brothers
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
I'm sure you've probably met Michael Eskin, but if not, get in touch with him. He's in San Diego. And I know of at least one other piper in that area.
If you don't know Michael, he can be reached through this page: http://www.thesession.org/members/display/12799
If you can get in with the local pipers, you will get pointed in the right direction.
I'm not a piper, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But you *really* want to avoid the cheaper sets out there, many of which were made in Pakistan, and are usually unplayable. It's generally a good idea with a difficult instrument like like the uilleann pipes, to learn on a decent instrument, because it is difficult to learn, even on a good set.
I seem to remember hearing years ago that the California Pipers Club (or maybe the San Francisco club) used to have a couple of practice sets to lend to interested players.
Also, look into Na Piobari Uilleann, the Irish piping association. I'm sure there's a wealth of info there too.
Good luck!
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by Reverend
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Thanks!
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by Phan Brothers
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
retreading much of what has been said before in other threads here and elsewhere,(uillean pipe forum on www.chiffandfipple.com) but but the teacher-apprentice model of learning the pipes has been successful for good reason, They are wonderfully complicated, Reeds are fickle, respond to humidity temperature and other undetermined factors. (Liam of o flynn's method of fixing a reed was to take it out and stare at it for a minute or so before replacing. He claimed to find this very sucessful).
Problems can come from the pipes themselves, inexperience the reed; and an experienced piper can smooth your path through all this. As well as some of the techniques. I have tried turors dvds etc but nothing beats having someone there who can trouble shoot all those issues,
It is worth it and I wish you luck
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by Uill Wind
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Forget about buying anything inexpensive that is "uilleann".
(1) Buy the best chanter + bag + bellows (called practice set) from one of the best makers in the price range from $2400 - $3000. Buying a second hand practice set made by a top maker, if available, is a more meaningful route for a beginner. You are lucky: California has one of the best pipe makers on Earth: Michael Hubbert
homepage.mac.com/photomorphose/hubbert.html
If waiting is too long from a top American maker, contact Andreas Rogge (Germany); his workshop makes chanters and practice sets in a couple of months to help beginners start learning on high quality chanters ASAP.
(2) Immediately visit a reedmaking workshop and learn to make reeds. You are lucky again visit www.socalpipers.com
I made two serious mistakes in my learning the Irish pipes:
-- I started on an "economy" chanter
-- Learning reedmaking only after many years of frustration
HTH, Miki
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by nemethmik
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
The unfortunate phenomenon in Irish piping is that you cannot learn piping on an inferior instrument. You can learn Irish piping only when you have the best (expensive) chanter and (near) perfect reed.
Getting a good instrument is definitely requires determination.
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by nemethmik
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
It's true. You need a good chanter with a good reed, an airtight bag, and an efficient, airtight bellows. They are hard to make well and you pay a bit extra for an instrument that behaves as it should. It won't hop out of the case and start playing itself though; you will have to work hard to make even a top-of-the-line instrument sound good. Nothing's a gimme in piping, except that it takes time.
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
I agree with nemethmik and Seasamh. That said, there are makers who are turning out decent sounding practice sets in the $600-$700 range (at least that's what they were before the recession). I've played around on David Daye and Pat Sky chanters and while they were not (nor are intended to be) high performance chanters, they were solid enough to get you there and learn on. Basic practice sets from guys like Seth Gallagher, are (or were) about $1000. $600-$1000 isn't cheap but you're not going to pay less than that for a working set unless you're the luckiest guy in the world.
There are some good pipers around So Cal. The best thing to do is get in touch with them through the Southern Cali Piper's Club that nemethmik linked to above, as it is far better to learn this instrument from a person rather than a book.
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Leave it to me to mention the obvious . If you want to learn the pipes, start by serving an apprenticeship on the Tin Whistle. The fingering is very similar and it makes life easier when you start on "the beast". You won't be chasing 5 rabbits at once, just 4.
Whilst you are doing this, you can be saving up for the pipes!
Rest of the advice is good. Get to know other pipers and learn from them what constitutes a "good" set. The basics are :-
1/ How "in tune"is the chanter with itself.
2/ Bag pressures - you should'nt need to develop an elbow like a vice!
3/ How easy is it to play in the second octave - it should be easy. You should be able to get EVERY note in the second octave as well !
4/ Try the Heather Clark(e?) tutor - its worth its money
5/ How easy is it to get replacement reeds made. You will need replacements at some stage.
6/ Spend your money on a good chanter. Its the heart of the instrument. In preference, buy one that can have keywork added later. That way it should be cheaper to start with!
7/ The bag and bellows need to be staunch. When inflated, you should be able to sit on them without air leeking out from anywhere.
8/ Start with a practice set (bag/bellows/chanter). Drones can be added later. When you do buy drones, make sure you buy a set that will take regulators.
I think thats about it - except to wish you the very best of good fortune - it is a worthy persuit indeed !
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by ormepipes
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Phan, check your private messages...
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by Michael Eskin
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Thanks to everyone here for all of the info!
# Posted on October 14th 2010 by Phan Brothers
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
FWIW:
For the money, Get the Daye half set.
Do not use the drones AT ALL for at least a year.
(The drones on the Daye pipes are actually easily removable, leaving you with basically a quarter/practice set. I will opine that having them in place and across your lap while learning JUST the chanter will lend to your comfort with the contraption later.)
When you have gained some command of the chanter, in say a few hundred years or so, you will then have a half-set so you can begin serving your REAL penance, suffering with pressure issues and tuning your drones.
Trust me on this, though -
do not even THINK about taking up the pipes without an honest, regular, reliable accessable teacher who wants to teach. There is nothing more miserable than unanswered questions and resorting to trial-and-error when it comes to the uilleanns.
Two cents, no waiting.
# Posted on October 14th 2010 by Piece
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
I have some great advice, unfortunately due to the waiting list it wont be ready for 6 months to 2 years. but when you get it, boy it will be good.
Of course when I say 6 months to 2 years I really mean about 3 yrs, but dont tell anyone I told you!.
# Posted on October 14th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
Phan: I'm up in Orange County, been playing uilleann pipes around 30 years, and will help in any way I can. You can get hold of me at 714-235-7789
Yes Michael Eskin is down there and I'm sure he can help.
We have uilleann piper's club meetings once a month up in San Juan Capistrano. It's fantastic for newbies because you can meet and chat with people at various stages in the learning process and see pipes by several different makers.
When beginners show up at my door I'm happy when they have a David Daye set because I know they having something that will WORK. Our local weather can be brutal on uilleann chanter reeds but I don't think anyone has ever shown up with a Daye chanter that didn't work right. Hard bottom D, soft bottom D, an in-tune scale, octaves working right, etc.
About Daye chanters and sets being unsuitable for actual performance, it isn't true, because the piper in Molly's Revenge toured and performed on a Daye halfset and it sounded great.
The only downside about Daye pipes is they usually have funky bellows, stocks, and bag. My advice would be to get top-quality bellows, stocks, bag, and blowpipe from Michael Macharg to play with your Daye chanter. Then everything will work perfectly.
Let me know if I can be of help! Richard
# Posted on October 14th 2010 by Richard D Cook
Re: Uilleann pipe information wanted!
The Southern California Uilleann Pipers Club annual Tionol is 11/5 through 11/7. See www.uilleannobsession.com for details. Come and talk, stay for the concert on Saturday night.
# Posted on October 20th 2010 by I_Fel