Please pardon my ignorance, but I have never been able to work out how those guys with guitars or whatever know what to strum when they're accompanying a tune. Can anyone give me advice?
(Well, it's 3 in the morning and i'm waiting for my little daughter to fall asleep, so i feel bold enough to tackle this one. )
It's an art, but the foundation is pretty simple. Most music in the West is tonal. The fundaments for tonal music evolved through the ages, but you have a key (for example, G major) and the chords that go with it. To build the chords that go with a key, write each note of the scale (G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G) and "stack" 2 notes in intervals of thirds (i.e.: skipping one note in-between). For example, the first chord is the G major chord: [GBD]. Use only the notes that belong in your G scale. Some of these chords will be major, some will be minor.
The most important chords are the first, fourth and fifth (G, C, D). You can play most G tunes using these 3 chords (sometimes G and D only are enough). It's fairly easy to "hear" where the chords fit, by experimentation (easier than understanding the underlying theory).
More complex music (not the case with IrTrad) has temporary modulations, where the music goes temporarily into another key then comes back. This relieves some of the 3-chord boredom.
Another way to relieve the boredom is by using chord substitutions, by using chords that don't really "belong" there but "sound close enough" that you can use them. This creates a more modern, jazzy sound that most people "dig".
Still another way is to add dissonances (add more notes, having chords with more than 3 notes in them). The most common dissonance is the minor seventh added to the fifth chord (in our G-major example, this would be the D-major-seventh).
And so on and so forth. Most people learn this stuff by experimenting (plonking the guitar). I'm mostly a flute player, and the main use i have for chords is when i'm improvising (not very likely in IrTrad).
Another twist for IrTrad is the use of "modal" scales. I don't want to go into a lot of detail because there were a few discussions about modes not too long ago. The old music theory had 7 different kinds of scales. Modern Western music kept 2 (major and minor). IrTrad uses a couple more (dorian, mixolydian). The theory for modal scales is the same as for any other kind of scales. Write down your scale, write the chords on it by stacking 2 thirds on each note, there you have them, those are the chords you play with.
My suggestion to anyone starting out to learn Irtrad accompaniment is to listen to a lot of recordings and then try and work out from ear what is going on with the chords.
Another trick is to try and play just one base note initially rather than a whole chord. There are many tunes where you can hold that one note (like a bagpipe drone) successfully for nearly the whole tune; really boring but a good exercise. Then add the 5th of the scale (No 3rd). In many tunes it is the 3rd note of the scale that makes a chord selection sound 'wrong', so leave it out when you can.
Beyond that I have often sat down with the sheet music and applied theory to what chords should work and where. But when that tune is played in session I completely forget all that and go completely by my ear and the feel of the music. Maybe my ear has been a little trained by the theory workout but it is used only at a subconscious level.
I find that some chords work well on a particular tune with one melody player but would not be my same choice with another melody player (same tune). I am not sure why this can be other than the ornamentation, bowing or suchlike may change the feel of the tune.
My accompanist's oath ==>
>>
Cheers
Donough
My accompanists oath disappeared off my posting above;
"I solemnly swear that I promise
Never to drown the melody
But weave a tapestry so fine
That it can clearly shine through
Each chord a velvet cushion
To display the crown jewel,
The Melody."
Cheers
Donough
"I find that some chords work well on a particular tune with one melodyplayer but would not be my same choice with another melody player (same tune). I am not sure why this can be other than the ornamentation, bowing or suchlike may change the feel of the tune."
In a word, yes. A player might use one different note in their own setting of a tune that changes the entire modal feel of the tune, or perhaps play it in a more driving fashion, or then again a more lyrical one. It's lovely to have an accompanist who is paying attention to that kind of thing! (It can be very disappointing to be playing a slightly slow, very sweet and tender version of, say, Miss. McLeod's, and have some ham-handed accompanist charge all the way through it.)
In another thread about "modal" chords you could find this link; http://home.hccnet.nl/h.speek/dadgad/theory.html
I thought it was very helpful in understanding basic theory behind Irish music
Lars
Well Cat, This is a minefield, but I think most of these guitar men you are talking about have all been in the same boat as yourself. most of the adviice already given is really good if you are well past beginner level. I think your best bet would be to record one of your favourite sessions. Most sessions play pretty much the same tunes each week. To get your ear well tuned for chords I would get the chords for these tunes from session books. Mally's 4 books of 100 session tunes are great for this and the chords are mostly good. Once you are playing a few sets spot on, and that wont take long your confidence will soar and you will soon begin to hear where the tune is going. Before they start each set find out what keys the tunes are in. Far better than faking about searching for the right key. That's half the battle. If you are busking the tune and let's say it's in key of G there are very seldom more than these 5 chords in the tune. they are G, C and D Majors and Em and Am. The trick is hearing where the come in. If the tune is in E minor you will find Em, Bm and D major will usually get you through Irish trad. When you hear a chord change coming, try to hear if it's going to major or minor, the latter always sounds a bit sadder than the major. Every single guitar player has been where you are. I have plaed guitar for years and unfortunately still sometimes manage to destroy a great set of tunes.
Don't give up, Dexy.
I keep advertising this program, but if you have the misfortune of having a Windows based PC like i do, there is a program called ABCMus, costing US$10. One of the things it does is you can feed it an ABC and it will put chords to it. Sometimes it goes wacko, but usually it's more or less right, good at least as a starting point. http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-11382/abcmus/
It too me years and years to learn. I worked with piano, and did not use any formulas at all -- totally by ear, and also by informally rearranging pieces in many genres to make them fit different people's hands, or playable at all. (In the case of contemporary top-40, which often come out in sheet music arrangements which are not playable. In such cases I used both the recorded version and the sheet music if the latter was available.)
Many if not most notated versions which show chord symbols have errors. That's a given, so it's necessary to analyse these when they don't sound right and figure out what works.
Also, there are chords which work for one genre, but not for another.
What Brad Maloney says is true, too -- it's really like knowing how to speak English (or your native tongue or any language one is fluent at). You just know. I sure don't think "subject-verb-object" whenever I utter a statement, and I would guess nobody else here does, either. Probably nobody here does when they type, either. Well, chording is like that, too.
A whole 'nother matter in Irish music is agreeing with any other chordal players in a session. I'm always hot for new "wild" or "raw" sounding chords to hear. But it's a matter of good personal interaction and verbal communication, or what? to decide ahead of time.
Thank you very much for your advice. It seems to boil down to "the theory helps, but sit down and practice" which holds true for a lot of this IrTrad stuff. Somebody mentioned "Mally's four books of session tunes". Could you possibly tell me what they're called? Thanks a lot and seeya later.
Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
Please pardon my ignorance, but I have never been able to work out how those guys with guitars or whatever know what to strum when they're accompanying a tune. Can anyone give me advice?
# Posted on December 25th 2001 by cat
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
(Well, it's 3 in the morning and i'm waiting for my little daughter to fall asleep, so i feel bold enough to tackle this one. )
It's an art, but the foundation is pretty simple. Most music in the West is tonal. The fundaments for tonal music evolved through the ages, but you have a key (for example, G major) and the chords that go with it. To build the chords that go with a key, write each note of the scale (G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G) and "stack" 2 notes in intervals of thirds (i.e.: skipping one note in-between). For example, the first chord is the G major chord: [GBD]. Use only the notes that belong in your G scale. Some of these chords will be major, some will be minor.
The most important chords are the first, fourth and fifth (G, C, D). You can play most G tunes using these 3 chords (sometimes G and D only are enough). It's fairly easy to "hear" where the chords fit, by experimentation (easier than understanding the underlying theory).
More complex music (not the case with IrTrad) has temporary modulations, where the music goes temporarily into another key then comes back. This relieves some of the 3-chord boredom.
Another way to relieve the boredom is by using chord substitutions, by using chords that don't really "belong" there but "sound close enough" that you can use them. This creates a more modern, jazzy sound that most people "dig".
Still another way is to add dissonances (add more notes, having chords with more than 3 notes in them). The most common dissonance is the minor seventh added to the fifth chord (in our G-major example, this would be the D-major-seventh).
And so on and so forth. Most people learn this stuff by experimenting (plonking the guitar). I'm mostly a flute player, and the main use i have for chords is when i'm improvising (not very likely in IrTrad).
Another twist for IrTrad is the use of "modal" scales. I don't want to go into a lot of detail because there were a few discussions about modes not too long ago. The old music theory had 7 different kinds of scales. Modern Western music kept 2 (major and minor). IrTrad uses a couple more (dorian, mixolydian). The theory for modal scales is the same as for any other kind of scales. Write down your scale, write the chords on it by stacking 2 thirds on each note, there you have them, those are the chords you play with.
# Posted on December 25th 2001 by glauber
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
My suggestion to anyone starting out to learn Irtrad accompaniment is to listen to a lot of recordings and then try and work out from ear what is going on with the chords.
Another trick is to try and play just one base note initially rather than a whole chord. There are many tunes where you can hold that one note (like a bagpipe drone) successfully for nearly the whole tune; really boring but a good exercise. Then add the 5th of the scale (No 3rd). In many tunes it is the 3rd note of the scale that makes a chord selection sound 'wrong', so leave it out when you can.
Beyond that I have often sat down with the sheet music and applied theory to what chords should work and where. But when that tune is played in session I completely forget all that and go completely by my ear and the feel of the music. Maybe my ear has been a little trained by the theory workout but it is used only at a subconscious level.
I find that some chords work well on a particular tune with one melody player but would not be my same choice with another melody player (same tune). I am not sure why this can be other than the ornamentation, bowing or suchlike may change the feel of the tune.
My accompanist's oath ==>
>>
Cheers
Donough
# Posted on December 25th 2001 by Donough
Setting chords to a tune
My accompanists oath disappeared off my posting above;
"I solemnly swear that I promise
Never to drown the melody
But weave a tapestry so fine
That it can clearly shine through
Each chord a velvet cushion
To display the crown jewel,
The Melody."
Cheers
Donough
# Posted on December 25th 2001 by Donough
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
"I find that some chords work well on a particular tune with one melodyplayer but would not be my same choice with another melody player (same tune). I am not sure why this can be other than the ornamentation, bowing or suchlike may change the feel of the tune."
In a word, yes. A player might use one different note in their own setting of a tune that changes the entire modal feel of the tune, or perhaps play it in a more driving fashion, or then again a more lyrical one. It's lovely to have an accompanist who is paying attention to that kind of thing! (It can be very disappointing to be playing a slightly slow, very sweet and tender version of, say, Miss. McLeod's, and have some ham-handed accompanist charge all the way through it.)
Zina
# Posted on December 26th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
In another thread about "modal" chords you could find this link;
http://home.hccnet.nl/h.speek/dadgad/theory.html
I thought it was very helpful in understanding basic theory behind Irish music
Lars
# Posted on December 26th 2001 by lars
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
Well Cat, This is a minefield, but I think most of these guitar men you are talking about have all been in the same boat as yourself. most of the adviice already given is really good if you are well past beginner level. I think your best bet would be to record one of your favourite sessions. Most sessions play pretty much the same tunes each week. To get your ear well tuned for chords I would get the chords for these tunes from session books. Mally's 4 books of 100 session tunes are great for this and the chords are mostly good. Once you are playing a few sets spot on, and that wont take long your confidence will soar and you will soon begin to hear where the tune is going. Before they start each set find out what keys the tunes are in. Far better than faking about searching for the right key. That's half the battle. If you are busking the tune and let's say it's in key of G there are very seldom more than these 5 chords in the tune. they are G, C and D Majors and Em and Am. The trick is hearing where the come in. If the tune is in E minor you will find Em, Bm and D major will usually get you through Irish trad. When you hear a chord change coming, try to hear if it's going to major or minor, the latter always sounds a bit sadder than the major. Every single guitar player has been where you are. I have plaed guitar for years and unfortunately still sometimes manage to destroy a great set of tunes.
Don't give up, Dexy.
# Posted on December 26th 2001 by Dexy
ABCMus
I keep advertising this program, but if you have the misfortune of having a Windows based PC like i do, there is a program called ABCMus, costing US$10. One of the things it does is you can feed it an ABC and it will put chords to it. Sometimes it goes wacko, but usually it's more or less right, good at least as a starting point.
http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-11382/abcmus/
# Posted on December 26th 2001 by glauber
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
Cat, you should also know that many well-respected guitarist/accompanists won't play on a tune if they don't know it during a session.
Zina
# Posted on December 26th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
You put on the magic guitar hat & *POOF* your as good as Mick Moloney.
Actually, the real answer is not as wordy but a unfortunatly a lot harder - Listen a lot & practice a lot.
# Posted on December 31st 2001 by Mad Baloney
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
When a guitarist knows what to strum - it's sort of like how fiddlers/pipers etc know which notes to play
# Posted on December 31st 2001 by Mad Baloney
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
It too me years and years to learn. I worked with piano, and did not use any formulas at all -- totally by ear, and also by informally rearranging pieces in many genres to make them fit different people's hands, or playable at all. (In the case of contemporary top-40, which often come out in sheet music arrangements which are not playable. In such cases I used both the recorded version and the sheet music if the latter was available.)
Many if not most notated versions which show chord symbols have errors. That's a given, so it's necessary to analyse these when they don't sound right and figure out what works.
Also, there are chords which work for one genre, but not for another.
What Brad Maloney says is true, too -- it's really like knowing how to speak English (or your native tongue or any language one is fluent at). You just know. I sure don't think "subject-verb-object" whenever I utter a statement, and I would guess nobody else here does, either. Probably nobody here does when they type, either. Well, chording is like that, too.
A whole 'nother matter in Irish music is agreeing with any other chordal players in a session. I'm always hot for new "wild" or "raw" sounding chords to hear. But it's a matter of good personal interaction and verbal communication, or what? to decide ahead of time.
Marian
# Posted on December 31st 2001 by Marian63
Re: Setting chords to a tune - how do you do it?
Thank you very much for your advice. It seems to boil down to "the theory helps, but sit down and practice" which holds true for a lot of this IrTrad stuff. Somebody mentioned "Mally's four books of session tunes". Could you possibly tell me what they're called? Thanks a lot and seeya later.
# Posted on December 31st 2001 by cat