Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
I've heard this said about guitars, fiddles and mandolins - that as they are played more and more they gradually 'open up' and sound better and better.
Is this true? If so, what is the mechanism? And, if so, does this also apply to non-string instruments such as pipes, flutes, whistles, concertinas, etc?
I can't help thinking that if this is real, wouldn't a guitar (or other instrument) maker try to gain a marketing advantage by having a machine spend a thousand hours or so 'playing' the instrument to get it to 'open up' before it's sold?
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Someone once explained it to me as it having something to do with the way cell walls line up in the wood. That over time and vibration they line up better which improves the sound. Probably not true, or if it is, the difference would be either miniscule or take countless hours of playing to have a noticeable effect.
I assume some of it is hype in order to sell older instruments.
What I can beleive, is that over time an instrument can settle, and be maintained or set up more properly in order to get a much better sound out of it than when it was originally finished.
two good snips:
0) They have sold thousands of the vibrating gadgets that fit violins, violas, cellos, double basses, guitars and mandolins. Prices range from $186 to $311.
1) “Unfortunately, it doesn’t simulate practice,” he said. “You still have to do that yourself.”
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Older instruments which have settled will usually be far more stable than new ones. VlaMike I must agree there.
As far as age and sound go, I've played instruments that were 100 plus years old that sounded mediocre despite their age. Probably because it was a mediocre instrument to begin with.
People tend to take better care of good instruments and the mediocre ones usually don't make it to a ripe old age like the good ones do. If you find an old instrument that sounds and plays nice, it's a good bet that it will be a worthwhile investment.
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
I wouldn't like to make any comment about the 'science' if there is any but...
I quite often have to 'tune up' to a church organ which is not quite half a tone sharp; I can tell immediately the fiddle ain't 'happy' - it takes a while before it settles and starts to sound more like itself again.
Same thing applies if I change the bridge from the Baggs to the original equipment and vice versa. I'm not altogether keen on the sound of the Baggs when played acoustically and much prefer the ordinary bridge.
Recently I've had a bit of a lay-off from playing and picking it up this PM it was a little while before it settled again into it's normal splendid tone.
Surely it can't be all down to me? Can it? I have heard that fiddles 'like' to be played and if I'm not mistaken there is an anecdote regarding one of Stradivarius' instruments (having been borrowed by the soloist) being played in a concert was identified by name by a particularly keen eared listener.
Anyway, make of that what you will.
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Valved harmonicas play better once they're warmed up, but this is an entirely reversible process. You could always put them in a pouch with one of those gel handwarmers, but it's much more fun to keep them down the front of your trousers for a while.
"Hi, is that a Larry Adler 12-hole chromatic in C down the front of your trousers or are you just pleased to see me?"
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
I have found that wooden flutes get better with playing, and also seem to get worse if not played for a while - sounding more 'dead' until worked back into shape!
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
A violinmaker once told me that it's a bit like breaking in a new pair of leather shoes--the leather has to be flexed repeatedly to soften up. And if they're not worn regularly, they stiffen up again. The wood in a violin needs to be vibrated repeatedly, to get it to loosen up and respond better.
At least that's what he said. I don't have any scientific evidence to back it up, either.
Although there is that story (apparently true) about the fellow who gets paid to play Strads, etc. in a museum, to keep them in shape....
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
My whistle felt like it was playing better and better, but unfortunately I cleaned out the windway, and it took me weeks to get it back under control. Guess I had just about the right amount of gunk built up in it!
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
New harps have a flat soundboard, and that bows out after about a year, under the tension of the strings. Once that happens you get a bit more stability in picth - the thing doesn't require constant tuning. And I guess it affects the sound when the soundboard is no longer completely flat.
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
A fiddle maker in Michigan hooks speaker wires to newly created fiddles then tunes it to stations that play what the customer will play. As far as hammered dulcimers go time makes all the difference. A hard played dulcimer warms up and is almost another instrument from the one you bought.
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
We have a friend who runs a vintage instrument shop, and he loves to have us play the old stringed instruments. (We love it, too-you should see the price tags on this stuff!) I feel like there is a "chemistry" after you play an instrument for awhile, especially one that has been stuck inside a case for a long time. It's a rewarding response.
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Why change strings if the instrument can't respond to the change? Of course the wood needs flexibility restored every time it's played. Even flutes have resonance characteristics that are improved upon by being played. And not just for the moisture, but the embouchure and the overblowing, to achieve the overtones. Old flutes CAN be restored.
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Instruments made with organic materials change over time. Whether the change is "good" or not is impossible to predict, but, in my experience, instruments tend to "settle" into a sound after a time being regularly played.
Any player knows that if you really want to see how the thing changes, or keep its sound, you keep the same string diameter, and you change one string at a time. The thing about DADGAD changing the tone of a guitar in a different way that EADGBE would is IMHo not true. The only objective way to tell would be to...do somethign scientific and test it. Any player who regularly uses their instrument in one tuning is going to think that the same instrument in a diff tuing sounds different...
Here's some fun-- see if you can tell the diff between a Heiden mando and an 80 year old Loar (the Strad of the mandolin world and the sound that Heiden is trying to re-create).
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
There is at least one well known violin maker who places his new violins in front of loudspeakers to cause them to vibrate and flex and he swears that they sound better.
I have also been told that a father/son had two "identical" new fiddles made and one of them played his fairly often and the son's stayed propped up against a loudspeaker in his bedroom for a couple of years. When the father played the propped up but essentially un-played violin he swore it sounded far better (they originally sounded fairly similar aparantly).
I have a friend who was lent a Lloyd Loar 1923 Gibson F5 mandolin (yes an original $110,000 ish one) that had lain in a garage for 80 odd years and it sounded so-so when first re-strung but over a period of a month the sound developed incredibly.
Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
I've heard this said about guitars, fiddles and mandolins - that as they are played more and more they gradually 'open up' and sound better and better.
Is this true? If so, what is the mechanism? And, if so, does this also apply to non-string instruments such as pipes, flutes, whistles, concertinas, etc?
I can't help thinking that if this is real, wouldn't a guitar (or other instrument) maker try to gain a marketing advantage by having a machine spend a thousand hours or so 'playing' the instrument to get it to 'open up' before it's sold?
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by dfost
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
maybe its the player who gets better ?
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by bazouki dave
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Works with a lot of woodwinds - the sound gets better as the wood gets moistened (or goes through a bunch of moist/dry cycles).
Now you know why drooling on a banjo makes sense.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Jack Campin
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
1000 hours of electricity-powered mechanical wear and tear as a way to make money? Does that answer your question?
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Someone once explained it to me as it having something to do with the way cell walls line up in the wood. That over time and vibration they line up better which improves the sound. Probably not true, or if it is, the difference would be either miniscule or take countless hours of playing to have a noticeable effect.
I assume some of it is hype in order to sell older instruments.
What I can beleive, is that over time an instrument can settle, and be maintained or set up more properly in order to get a much better sound out of it than when it was originally finished.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by banshee misfortune
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
like this?
Using an Electronic Device to Break in a New Violin
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/technology/05tonerite.html
two good snips:
0) They have sold thousands of the vibrating gadgets that fit violins, violas, cellos, double basses, guitars and mandolins. Prices range from $186 to $311.
1) “Unfortunately, it doesn’t simulate practice,” he said. “You still have to do that yourself.”
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by mike henry
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Older instruments which have settled will usually be far more stable than new ones. VlaMike I must agree there.
As far as age and sound go, I've played instruments that were 100 plus years old that sounded mediocre despite their age. Probably because it was a mediocre instrument to begin with.
People tend to take better care of good instruments and the mediocre ones usually don't make it to a ripe old age like the good ones do. If you find an old instrument that sounds and plays nice, it's a good bet that it will be a worthwhile investment.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
I wouldn't like to make any comment about the 'science' if there is any but...
I quite often have to 'tune up' to a church organ which is not quite half a tone sharp; I can tell immediately the fiddle ain't 'happy' - it takes a while before it settles and starts to sound more like itself again.
Same thing applies if I change the bridge from the Baggs to the original equipment and vice versa. I'm not altogether keen on the sound of the Baggs when played acoustically and much prefer the ordinary bridge.
Recently I've had a bit of a lay-off from playing and picking it up this PM it was a little while before it settled again into it's normal splendid tone.
Surely it can't be all down to me? Can it? I have heard that fiddles 'like' to be played and if I'm not mistaken there is an anecdote regarding one of Stradivarius' instruments (having been borrowed by the soloist) being played in a concert was identified by name by a particularly keen eared listener.
Anyway, make of that what you will.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by john knoss
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Valved harmonicas play better once they're warmed up, but this is an entirely reversible process. You could always put them in a pouch with one of those gel handwarmers, but it's much more fun to keep them down the front of your trousers for a while.
"Hi, is that a Larry Adler 12-hole chromatic in C down the front of your trousers or are you just pleased to see me?"
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
I have found that wooden flutes get better with playing, and also seem to get worse if not played for a while - sounding more 'dead' until worked back into shape!
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Bredna
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
A violinmaker once told me that it's a bit like breaking in a new pair of leather shoes--the leather has to be flexed repeatedly to soften up. And if they're not worn regularly, they stiffen up again. The wood in a violin needs to be vibrated repeatedly, to get it to loosen up and respond better.
At least that's what he said. I don't have any scientific evidence to back it up, either.
Although there is that story (apparently true) about the fellow who gets paid to play Strads, etc. in a museum, to keep them in shape....
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by John Galt
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
There are many articles and discussions on this subject. You may care to listen to this:
http://www.baroquemusic.org/violincomparison.mp3
and see if you can tell yourself which is which.
Or read this:
http://www.fritz-reuter.com/books/rin031.htm
and save yourself some money next time you concider buying yourself a Strad.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by gam
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
consider. apples are not involved
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by gam
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
My whistle felt like it was playing better and better, but unfortunately I cleaned out the windway, and it took me weeks to get it back under control. Guess I had just about the right amount of gunk built up in it!
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
I can't for the life of me understand what the bloody use is of keeping Strads in museums. Maybe I'm missing something.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Here's the results of a pair of identical fiddles, one played, one shelved, after three years:
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/reprints/IntaViolin.pdf
Terry
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Terry McGee
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
New harps have a flat soundboard, and that bows out after about a year, under the tension of the strings. Once that happens you get a bit more stability in picth - the thing doesn't require constant tuning. And I guess it affects the sound when the soundboard is no longer completely flat.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Mark Harmer
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
...but that would happen if you didn't play it too - as long as you kept on tuning it.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by Mark Harmer
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
A fiddle maker in Michigan hooks speaker wires to newly created fiddles then tunes it to stations that play what the customer will play. As far as hammered dulcimers go time makes all the difference. A hard played dulcimer warms up and is almost another instrument from the one you bought.
# Posted on September 26th 2010 by jrathbun
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
We have a friend who runs a vintage instrument shop, and he loves to have us play the old stringed instruments. (We love it, too-you should see the price tags on this stuff!) I feel like there is a "chemistry" after you play an instrument for awhile, especially one that has been stuck inside a case for a long time. It's a rewarding response.
# Posted on September 27th 2010 by primrose lass
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Anyone with a Sobell Cittern they think would improve with more playing I would be happy to help for free. Just post it to me for a few years.
# Posted on September 27th 2010 by bazouki dave
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Why change strings if the instrument can't respond to the change? Of course the wood needs flexibility restored every time it's played. Even flutes have resonance characteristics that are improved upon by being played. And not just for the moisture, but the embouchure and the overblowing, to achieve the overtones. Old flutes CAN be restored.
# Posted on September 28th 2010 by wvwhistler
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
Instruments made with organic materials change over time. Whether the change is "good" or not is impossible to predict, but, in my experience, instruments tend to "settle" into a sound after a time being regularly played.
Any player knows that if you really want to see how the thing changes, or keep its sound, you keep the same string diameter, and you change one string at a time. The thing about DADGAD changing the tone of a guitar in a different way that EADGBE would is IMHo not true. The only objective way to tell would be to...do somethign scientific and test it. Any player who regularly uses their instrument in one tuning is going to think that the same instrument in a diff tuing sounds different...
Here's some fun-- see if you can tell the diff between a Heiden mando and an 80 year old Loar (the Strad of the mandolin world and the sound that Heiden is trying to re-create).
http://www.lpb.com/mando/heiden/
# Posted on September 30th 2010 by chris stolz
Re: Sound of instrument improves as it is played more?
There is at least one well known violin maker who places his new violins in front of loudspeakers to cause them to vibrate and flex and he swears that they sound better.
I have also been told that a father/son had two "identical" new fiddles made and one of them played his fairly often and the son's stayed propped up against a loudspeaker in his bedroom for a couple of years. When the father played the propped up but essentially un-played violin he swore it sounded far better (they originally sounded fairly similar aparantly).
I have a friend who was lent a Lloyd Loar 1923 Gibson F5 mandolin (yes an original $110,000 ish one) that had lain in a garage for 80 odd years and it sounded so-so when first re-strung but over a period of a month the sound developed incredibly.
# Posted on October 13th 2010 by UKCITTERN