Now, I know that a hornpipe can be played like a reel, or a reel can become a strathspey (or vice versa, I suppose). For example, the reel Paddy Ryan's Dream and the strathspey The Cat that Kittled in Jamie's Wig are pretty much the same tune, but with different rhythm patterns.
So... to further my education, I'm wondering if there are other examples of well-known tunes that have morphed from one type to another.
Or maybe even hybrids, which have the characteristics of two different tune types?
Two well known ones are, Lucy Campbell - Strathspey to Scottish reel to Irish reel to the Bucks
The Highlander's Farewell To Ireland - strathspey to Farewell to Erin - reel
There are quite a few strathspeys that get played as reels in Ireland, maybe remember more later.
Some others......... Devil in the Kitchen is often played as both strathspey and reel here. The Haughs of Cromdale has morphed into lots of things, including the polka Barrack Hill. King George IV is played as a strathspey and a reel, as are Miss Lyall's and the Reel of Tulloch
There is an earlier strathspey version of the Humours of Tulla. My pal who plays it thinks it's called the Inverness something or other, but he can't remember the name past Inverness.
I know Moneymusk as a "Highland" which I have always thought of as an Irish way of playing what was originally a Strathspey. A Highland is more bouncy, a Strathspey more snappy!
"Niel Gow's Farewell to Whisky, originally a slow air has now become both a polka and a reel in Ireland. Cry shame!"
Yes, a great Irish flute player visited our session and played the polka. The local fiddler took a double take and I think he was a bit taken aback/put out lol
When I saw "hornreels" in the title I thought the thread might be about the "hornpipe" idiom which has developed over the last 40 or 50 years in the Highland bagpipe scene.
Pipers call them "hornpipes" but they're played "round", that is, no dotting and cutting, but absolutely straight time. Basically, they sound like a Irish reel played very squarely.
They became so universally common amongst pipe bands that a few years ago, at any major competition, you might hear 20 or 30 bands in a row play one of these "hornpipe" as their march-in tune, the tune which begins their competion medley.
Dozens of these "hornpipes" have been composed over the last few years. Some bands compose a new one each year, then toss it at the end of the competition season.
Usually they're in the pentatonic mode A B D E G A. Often C# appears as sort of an accidental to add some flavour.
More recently, it's very common for these "hornpipes" to have syncopation, or to have irregular meter, etc.
In many cases these "hornpipes" have become blurred with the reel idiom and I've seen recent compositions listed as "reel/hornpipe" by the composer.
Here's the Los Angeles Scottish playing a tune which shows two things, first, the way a tune can change from one category to another, and second, this new breed of "hornpipe" sounds, played with no dotting or cutting but with some syncopation.
The tune is "The Atholl Highlanders" which has been transformed from 6/8 timing to 4/4 timing.
Ah yes... Strathspeys get changed into all sorts of tunes when they reach Ireland. Every year I'm over in Ireland, I hear more and more Scottish tunes which have been absorbed into the Irish repertoire. This seems to be very prevalent in Kerry, where if a Scottish musician were to listen carefully, they'd start to notice many Scottish tunes, often played as polkas and slides.
A few years ago, our own Kenny from the mustard board, and myself, decided to start the tune traffic flowing in the other direction, and turned a good number of Irish reels into Strathspeys, except that we decided to call them Strathliffeys, just for the craic.
Marches can easily become polkas, too, and vice versa. That is why an aural source for tunes is so important, the dots may look the same for both, but oh what a difference to the ear!
I thought this was going to be about the odd, square rhythm hornpipes that have become common among Irish pipers. I guess Richard's post explains where they originated. I think it's sad. Hornpipes become so flat and "reelish" that way and they're not very danceable.
I have The Scholar as a reel. If you look in O'Neil's it 's a hornpipe.
strathpipes? hornreels?
strathpipes? hornreels?
Now, I know that a hornpipe can be played like a reel, or a reel can become a strathspey (or vice versa, I suppose). For example, the reel Paddy Ryan's Dream and the strathspey The Cat that Kittled in Jamie's Wig are pretty much the same tune, but with different rhythm patterns.
So... to further my education, I'm wondering if there are other examples of well-known tunes that have morphed from one type to another.
Or maybe even hybrids, which have the characteristics of two different tune types?
# Posted on September 20th 2010 by John Galt
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Two well known ones are, Lucy Campbell - Strathspey to Scottish reel to Irish reel to the Bucks
The Highlander's Farewell To Ireland - strathspey to Farewell to Erin - reel
There are quite a few strathspeys that get played as reels in Ireland, maybe remember more later.
# Posted on September 20th 2010 by bogman
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Some others......... Devil in the Kitchen is often played as both strathspey and reel here. The Haughs of Cromdale has morphed into lots of things, including the polka Barrack Hill. King George IV is played as a strathspey and a reel, as are Miss Lyall's and the Reel of Tulloch
# Posted on September 20th 2010 by bogman
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Here's One for you - Me think's we Slole
it from the Scot's ??? see bottom tune -
jim,,
X:53
T:Rakish Paddy
R:reel
H:The tune comes from the Scottish tune "Cabar Feidh" (The Deer's Antlers).
H:It is related to "The Copperplate", #308.
H:This is the standard version with variations.
H:See also #54 (4-part version), #647 (Donegal version)
Z:id:hn-reel-53
M:C|
K:Dmix
c3B c2AB|cBAG EG~G2|Add^c de=fe|dcAG FGAB|
c3B c2AB|cBAG EFGE|DEFG ABcA|1 dcAG FGAB:|2 dcAG FDD2||
|:eg~g2 ag~g2|eg~g2 edBd|ea~a2 bgag|eaag edBd|
eg~g2 ag~g2|egge defg|afge fde^c|1 dcAG FDD2:|2 dcAG FGAB||
"Variations:"
cAAB cAAB|cAAG EG~G2|Add^c de^fe|dcAG FGAB|
cAAB cAAB|cAAG EFGE|D2 (3EFG ABcA|dcAG FGAB|
c2AB cded|cABG EG~G2|Add^c d2 (3g^fe|dcAG FGAB|
c2AB cded|cABG EFGE|FD (3EFG ABcA|dcAG FDD2||
|:eg~g2 ag~g2|eg~g2 eA (3Bcd|eaag ~a3g|ea~a2 eA (3Bcd|
efge afge|fde^c defg|afge fde^c|1 dcAG FDD2:|2 dcAG FGAB||
X:469
T:Caber Feigh
T:Cabar Feidh
T:Caper Fey
B:Kerr's Merry Melodies Bk.1 (c1870s)
Z:Nigel Gatherer
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:C
G | c2 ed c2 GB | c2 GF ECCA | defe d2 A^c | d2 AG FDDB |
c2 ed c2 GB | c2 GF ECCE | DEFG ABcA | d2 AG FDD ||
f | ecgc acgc | ecgc ecce | fdad bdad | fgag fddf |
ecgc acgc | GAcd eccg | afge fde^c | d2 AG FDD |]
# Posted on September 20th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Niel Gow's Farewell to Whisky, originally a slow air has now become both a polka and a reel in Ireland. Cry shame!
# Posted on September 20th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
There is an earlier strathspey version of the Humours of Tulla. My pal who plays it thinks it's called the Inverness something or other, but he can't remember the name past Inverness.
# Posted on September 20th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Moneymusk appears as a strathspey and then as a (very fast) reel in the New England tradition.
# Posted on September 20th 2010 by fiddlentina
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
I know Moneymusk as a "Highland" which I have always thought of as an Irish way of playing what was originally a Strathspey. A Highland is more bouncy, a Strathspey more snappy!
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by Rocky Nook
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Neil Gow's second wife (strathspey) > The Watchmaker (reel).
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by Henk Bos
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
"Niel Gow's Farewell to Whisky, originally a slow air has now become both a polka and a reel in Ireland. Cry shame!"
Yes, a great Irish flute player visited our session and played the polka. The local fiddler took a double take and I think he was a bit taken aback/put out lol
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by bogman
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
When I saw "hornreels" in the title I thought the thread might be about the "hornpipe" idiom which has developed over the last 40 or 50 years in the Highland bagpipe scene.
Pipers call them "hornpipes" but they're played "round", that is, no dotting and cutting, but absolutely straight time. Basically, they sound like a Irish reel played very squarely.
They became so universally common amongst pipe bands that a few years ago, at any major competition, you might hear 20 or 30 bands in a row play one of these "hornpipe" as their march-in tune, the tune which begins their competion medley.
Dozens of these "hornpipes" have been composed over the last few years. Some bands compose a new one each year, then toss it at the end of the competition season.
Usually they're in the pentatonic mode A B D E G A. Often C# appears as sort of an accidental to add some flavour.
More recently, it's very common for these "hornpipes" to have syncopation, or to have irregular meter, etc.
In many cases these "hornpipes" have become blurred with the reel idiom and I've seen recent compositions listed as "reel/hornpipe" by the composer.
Here's the Los Angeles Scottish playing a tune which shows two things, first, the way a tune can change from one category to another, and second, this new breed of "hornpipe" sounds, played with no dotting or cutting but with some syncopation.
The tune is "The Atholl Highlanders" which has been transformed from 6/8 timing to 4/4 timing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qxvJ28W-7k&feature=related
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by Richard D Cook
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Ah yes... Strathspeys get changed into all sorts of tunes when they reach Ireland. Every year I'm over in Ireland, I hear more and more Scottish tunes which have been absorbed into the Irish repertoire. This seems to be very prevalent in Kerry, where if a Scottish musician were to listen carefully, they'd start to notice many Scottish tunes, often played as polkas and slides.
A few years ago, our own Kenny from the mustard board, and myself, decided to start the tune traffic flowing in the other direction, and turned a good number of Irish reels into Strathspeys, except that we decided to call them Strathliffeys, just for the craic.
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by On Sabbatical
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Strathliffeys.... tee hee.
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Someone once said that Kerry is where jigs and reels go to die, and are resurrected as slides and polkas?
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by zippydw
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Bonnie Rideout plays Rolling in the Barrel as a strathspey, and does a fine job of it.
# Posted on September 21st 2010 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Marches can easily become polkas, too, and vice versa. That is why an aural source for tunes is so important, the dots may look the same for both, but oh what a difference to the ear!
# Posted on September 22nd 2010 by AlBrown
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
Strathspey: Miller of Drone> Reel: The First Month of Summer
# Posted on September 22nd 2010 by jaychoons
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
I thought this was going to be about the odd, square rhythm hornpipes that have become common among Irish pipers. I guess Richard's post explains where they originated. I think it's sad. Hornpipes become so flat and "reelish" that way and they're not very danceable.
I have The Scholar as a reel. If you look in O'Neil's it 's a hornpipe.
# Posted on September 23rd 2010 by ElaineT
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
I too have it as a reel, but I've always felt it could/should be a HP. Thanks for that Elaine. HP it is from now on.
# Posted on September 23rd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: strathpipes? hornreels?
"Strathspey: Miller of Drone> Reel: The First Month of Summer"
Really? I play both those but never thought they were the same tune. Have to mess about with them today I think.
# Posted on September 23rd 2010 by DrSilverSpear