I've recently acquired a Cheiftan high D whistle which is a fine instrument, but have noticed that the high c# doesn't sound with the normal fingering, ie 000000. I ve found that 0XXXx0 (x meaning half hole) works, but was wondering if anyone else has found this to happen on a good whistle?
D'' seems most in tune with 0XXX00.
Also, cutting high A with LH index produces an "undercut" of an octave - Interested if some of you use LH middle for the high A cut.?
Not tried notes higher than D'' for fear of damaging ears!
Counter-intuitive this, but are you sure you're blowing hard enough on those top notes? On some of these 'high end' whistles, if you underblow, you can get a note which is both harsher than it should be and also a bit sharp.
The other thing is, which I mentioned on another thread the other day, and which I wouldn't have believed except that I proved that it worked on the whistle in question, and that is: does the thing work if you narrow your embouchure for those top notes? I know, I know, shouldn't have anything to do with it, but, trust me, on some whistles, it works, for no reason I can fathom.
High D on whistle ---- the Horror .... the Horror! Don't do it!
Why would embouchure have anything to do with it? The tone is
produced inside the mouthpiece; you could hook it up to a leaf blower and get a good sound.
Well, there ya go. bogman implies I haven't gone far enough in stressing the importance of embouchure, and Hup implies it's nonsense.
All I can say, Hup, is that, if you constrict your lips and blow a thinner airstream into the mouthpiece for the top notes, it makes a massive difference on a lot of 'hard to blow' whistles. On some of them, it's the only way to get the top notes. I don;t understand it it, but there it is.
And high D on whistle shouldn't be too bad, Hup. It's nice on my whistles. If it is too shrill, try my method, and constrict the airflow, and see if that makes it any sweeter/less shrill.
"The tone is produced inside the mouthpiece; you could hook it up to a leaf blower and get a good sound." I would say it would sound like a whistle player that doesn't realise the importance of embouchure to the sound, tuning and attack of the notes.
There are a couple of different kinds of Kerry/Chieftain high D whistles.
The Kerry Songbird - a very solid tunable whistle in the mid volume range.
The Chieftain Mezzo D - suitable for playing in busy train stations or construction sites.
If the OP has the second of these, it's going to be very hard to get to the high notes without ear plugs and a serious blow. Subtlety or nuance is not what comes out of a Mezzo D. Volume is mostly what it offers.
(Also, because of the Chieftain confusion index, it's hard to know just what whistle this may be)
I haven't liked any Chieftain I've ever played. Though I think I remember a friend saying there are a few good ones. He would be reliable on this sort of thing. Sorry I cannot remember if we were talking about Chieftains. I'm about 75 -80% sure it was.
I like my Overton.
O.K. So the Kerry Songbird is a Chieftain. That's not the one I was talking about. Another friend had one of those, which he thought wasn't playing so well. I cleaned out the airway, with a slice of a business card. He started playing it again after that.
I need to read the OPs before I begin spouting off. You're talking about a high D whistle. Just get an Overton (on the topend) or a good Generation or a tweaked whistle, if you don't have the cash.
Embouchure would certainly have an effect, if it is true that blowing harder affects pitch. narrowing your embouchure would speed the flow of air by narrowing the passage, and forcing the same amount of air (assuming) through the smaller passage.
THe Chieftain high D has a cylindrical bore and is the widest bore high D on the market (to my knowledge).
Simply put - the wider the bore, the more energy is required to sound the note. The gradient between the notes also becomes steeper - i.e. you have to puff harder to get the next note up. This gradient is not even - the wider the bore, the more "exponential" the gradient becomes.
So, with the Chieftain, you are going to have to deliver a s**tload of energy to get the 2nd octagve g, a, b and c# to play in tune - otherwise the note will be way flat.
Players of the GBH seem to have no difficulty with this.
The Chieftain high D was made to be loud - if you play it with a ton of attack it can sound very nice indeed, but the instant you drop the pressure (or fail to listen to the pitch) it will go flat or drop the octave. Not for shy perfomances.
If you need a quiet whistle, don't get one of these - you will end up thinking it's a bad whistle ... horses for courses methinks ;)
ALL whistles go flat and sharp depending on breath pressure - some more than others.
If you are using a whistle as loud as the Chieftain high D, it is also likely that you'll be standing to a microphone as well, and the tunes will be Pogue-esque or death-metal ;)
and at that kind of SPL, dynamics doesn't count for much ..
and there's always mic technique.
The pitch variance with breath pressure sometimes flattens at what can be called a "sweet spot" .. not many whistles have this - those that DO have this can have several sweet-spots.
If the whistle is set-up correctly, the sweet spots will occur on a smooth gradient from one note to the next.
For instance, on the whistles I make, the sweet spot is close to the octave jump(the whistle is uniformly louder that way), however one of my customers always closes the tuning tenon to use the low sweet-spot and uses embouchure to get resonance.
Nothing is simple - I have seen Chieftain High Ds played very efectively - but always on stage or some other high SPL environment.
High notes on whistle
High notes on whistle
Hi folks,
I've recently acquired a Cheiftan high D whistle which is a fine instrument, but have noticed that the high c# doesn't sound with the normal fingering, ie 000000. I ve found that 0XXXx0 (x meaning half hole) works, but was wondering if anyone else has found this to happen on a good whistle?
D'' seems most in tune with 0XXX00.
Also, cutting high A with LH index produces an "undercut" of an octave - Interested if some of you use LH middle for the high A cut.?
Not tried notes higher than D'' for fear of damaging ears!
Regards,
R.
# Posted on August 31st 2010 by Robin73
Re: High notes on whistle
I'm surprised high D" isn't best with OXX OOO ...
# Posted on August 31st 2010 by ethical blend
Re: High notes on whistle
...Tad sharp.
Mind, it's tunable and behaves differently at different pitches. I think the c#'' is ok at highest pitch, but then the whole thing plays near Eb.
# Posted on August 31st 2010 by Robin73
Re: High notes on whistle
Counter-intuitive this, but are you sure you're blowing hard enough on those top notes? On some of these 'high end' whistles, if you underblow, you can get a note which is both harsher than it should be and also a bit sharp.
The other thing is, which I mentioned on another thread the other day, and which I wouldn't have believed except that I proved that it worked on the whistle in question, and that is: does the thing work if you narrow your embouchure for those top notes? I know, I know, shouldn't have anything to do with it, but, trust me, on some whistles, it works, for no reason I can fathom.
# Posted on August 31st 2010 by ethical blend
Re: High notes on whistle
"On some of these 'high end' whistles" - thing is a cheiftain is not a high end whistle. Chances are it's just a bad whistle.
Don't know what you mean by embouchure shouldn't have anything to do with it ethical. Embouchure is very important, especially on metal whistles.
# Posted on August 31st 2010 by bogman
Re: High notes on whistle
There is a reason most Irish tunes do not include high Cs and Ds!
# Posted on August 31st 2010 by AlBrown
Re: High notes on whistle
High D on whistle ---- the Horror .... the Horror! Don't do it!
Why would embouchure have anything to do with it? The tone is
produced inside the mouthpiece; you could hook it up to a leaf blower and get a good sound.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Hup
Re: High notes on whistle
Well, there ya go. bogman implies I haven't gone far enough in stressing the importance of embouchure, and Hup implies it's nonsense.
All I can say, Hup, is that, if you constrict your lips and blow a thinner airstream into the mouthpiece for the top notes, it makes a massive difference on a lot of 'hard to blow' whistles. On some of them, it's the only way to get the top notes. I don;t understand it it, but there it is.
And high D on whistle shouldn't be too bad, Hup. It's nice on my whistles. If it is too shrill, try my method, and constrict the airflow, and see if that makes it any sweeter/less shrill.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by ethical blend
Re: High notes on whistle
I'll try, ethical -- I'm always willing to be proven wrong
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Hup
Re: High notes on whistle
"a Cheiftan high D whistle which is a fine instrument"
no it ain't
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by ...
Re: High notes on whistle
get a dog whistle instead.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: High notes on whistle
I'm willing to believe about the embouchure, and will try it out.
Another strange phenomenom is this: place an o-ring around the very bottom of the "lip" and A) you have a quieter whistle and B) the high c# works!
Very useful discovery for me, as I busk and play in sessions.
Ok guys, what's with the anti-cheiftain thing? You guys really don't like them?
I find mine a little hard to control, but really strong and clear and good for what I use it for. Bit of a shame about the missing note though....
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Robin73
Re: High notes on whistle
"The tone is produced inside the mouthpiece; you could hook it up to a leaf blower and get a good sound." I would say it would sound like a whistle player that doesn't realise the importance of embouchure to the sound, tuning and attack of the notes.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by bogman
Re: High notes on whistle
Get a Goldie
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by greg sheils
Re: High notes on whistle
There are a couple of different kinds of Kerry/Chieftain high D whistles.
The Kerry Songbird - a very solid tunable whistle in the mid volume range.
The Chieftain Mezzo D - suitable for playing in busy train stations or construction sites.
If the OP has the second of these, it's going to be very hard to get to the high notes without ear plugs and a serious blow. Subtlety or nuance is not what comes out of a Mezzo D. Volume is mostly what it offers.
(Also, because of the Chieftain confusion index, it's hard to know just what whistle this may be)
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Toppish
Re: High notes on whistle
I haven't liked any Chieftain I've ever played. Though I think I remember a friend saying there are a few good ones. He would be reliable on this sort of thing. Sorry I cannot remember if we were talking about Chieftains. I'm about 75 -80% sure it was.
I like my Overton.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: High notes on whistle
O.K. So the Kerry Songbird is a Chieftain. That's not the one I was talking about. Another friend had one of those, which he thought wasn't playing so well. I cleaned out the airway, with a slice of a business card. He started playing it again after that.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Ben Steen
~
I need to read the OPs before I begin spouting off. You're talking about a high D whistle. Just get an Overton (on the topend) or a good Generation or a tweaked whistle, if you don't have the cash.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: High notes on whistle
Embouchure would certainly have an effect, if it is true that blowing harder affects pitch. narrowing your embouchure would speed the flow of air by narrowing the passage, and forcing the same amount of air (assuming) through the smaller passage.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: High notes on whistle
THe Chieftain high D has a cylindrical bore and is the widest bore high D on the market (to my knowledge).
Simply put - the wider the bore, the more energy is required to sound the note. The gradient between the notes also becomes steeper - i.e. you have to puff harder to get the next note up. This gradient is not even - the wider the bore, the more "exponential" the gradient becomes.
So, with the Chieftain, you are going to have to deliver a s**tload of energy to get the 2nd octagve g, a, b and c# to play in tune - otherwise the note will be way flat.
Players of the GBH seem to have no difficulty with this.
The Chieftain high D was made to be loud - if you play it with a ton of attack it can sound very nice indeed, but the instant you drop the pressure (or fail to listen to the pitch) it will go flat or drop the octave. Not for shy perfomances.
If you need a quiet whistle, don't get one of these - you will end up thinking it's a bad whistle ... horses for courses methinks ;)
# Posted on September 6th 2010 by Mozle
Re: High notes on whistle
So no dynamics?
# Posted on September 6th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: High notes on whistle
ALL whistles go flat and sharp depending on breath pressure - some more than others.
If you are using a whistle as loud as the Chieftain high D, it is also likely that you'll be standing to a microphone as well, and the tunes will be Pogue-esque or death-metal ;)
and at that kind of SPL, dynamics doesn't count for much ..
and there's always mic technique.
The pitch variance with breath pressure sometimes flattens at what can be called a "sweet spot" .. not many whistles have this - those that DO have this can have several sweet-spots.
If the whistle is set-up correctly, the sweet spots will occur on a smooth gradient from one note to the next.
For instance, on the whistles I make, the sweet spot is close to the octave jump(the whistle is uniformly louder that way), however one of my customers always closes the tuning tenon to use the low sweet-spot and uses embouchure to get resonance.
Nothing is simple - I have seen Chieftain High Ds played very efectively - but always on stage or some other high SPL environment.
# Posted on September 6th 2010 by Mozle
Re: High notes on whistle
And .. I would NOT take a Chieftain high D to a session ... colonoscopies are painful when administered without an aenesthetic ;0
# Posted on September 6th 2010 by Mozle
Re: High notes on whistle
All very true Mozle!
Cheers
# Posted on September 6th 2010 by Ben Steen