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Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Sorry for the cross-thread but this is important and needs to be discussed in it's own right: What do people think?
PadraigB wrote in and earlier thread about the Fleadh2010:
Cavan was probably the worst Fleadh I've been to.
On Thursday when I arrived, Most pubs had CDs playing.
Friday night, there was few sessions and the one I did join ended up being taken over by guitars. Sunday night was a joke, I wasn't really surprised when they canceled the gig rig. Again little or no music around, any hope of sessions at the back of the Farnham Arms were put to an end when the night club started up.
It's been a while since I camped, something has to be done to discourage the Northern crowd that are only interested in drinking from coming to the Fleadh.
Cavan is too small, the venues were too far apart and too few, Cavan is too close to the border and attracted the wrong crowd, The Fleadh at the weekend is not family friendly either
ed_boot continued in same thread:
Comments concerning the intimidating and frequently disgraceful behaviour of some people from Northern Ireland obviously do not apply to everyone from Northern Ireland. (This is really pretty obvious, but some people seem to take offence at what is just a statement of fact: some people from Northern Ireland act in a less than civilised way when they cross the border into Ireland.) But everyone from the border counties knows what’s being discussed here. There is a certain criminal element that comes to Ireland because of its relatively relaxed attention to law and order, in order to behave in a way that would never be tolerated in Northern Ireland. Irish music festivals are not enriched by this behaviour, and it would be far better if these people would stay where they belong and ply their trade there. This is not however just a problem with the Northern Ireland population, all over Ireland there are of gangs of Irish UK-style chavs causing trouble at festivals, in towns and villages, and even in the Gaeltacht. They have no interest in Irish culture or music, they just want to cause trouble. I have been to festivals in the south west of Ireland where (often fairly local) mobs of thuggish trouble-makers have made the whole festival experience a very intimidating one. Was anyone at Feakle in 2007? Remember the smack-heads in the campsite and the local bars? The problem was that the festival organisers had no plan and no willingness to deal with violence, intimidation and threatening behaviour, or even to see it as a real problem.
I know many people who have stopped going to traditional music festivals because of the increasingly threatening atmosphere. In the past 2 years I have gone to better run (and much more relaxing) Scottish festivals instead. I wouldn’t bring kids to many Irish festivals because of the level of intimidation and general chav-like behaviour that is tolerated by the authorities. Drunkenness was frequently associated with music festivals (and without negative connotation!) The Gaelic word “Fleadh” means: “drinking festival”; but this quite alien and menacing chav-culture, deriving from the English criminal class, will, unless it is severely dealt with, kill off Irish traditional music festivals completely. (And there is nothing “partitionist” in recognizing that there is a constitutional partition between Ireland and Northern Ireland, nor in noticing the source of much the criminality at the Fleadh.)
In response to some of Big_Tab’s comments:
Irish traditional music is Gaelic music, as is Scottish traditional music. The puritan planters despised all forms of enjoyment: music, dancing, singing, laughing, drinking, poetry, etc. Northern Ireland had many fine protestant fiddlers but they formed an auxiliary and complementary wing of a Gaelic tradition, and they themselves recognised this too.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
If your going to use the term Northern Ireland then use also the proper name for the rest of the island ie Republic of Ireland - One country, 2 jurisdictions.
Fleadh actually means feast as gaeilge.
I'm starting to believe ed_boot is winding us up with his distorted and West-Brit views.
I'm from our northern collective and while I know what a chav is through reading British press I've never heard it applied here until I went to Dublin.
With regards relaxed attention to law and order in the 26 counties. I'm from the border areas and growing up I would far rather be lifted by the RUC than the Gardai in Dundalk. They take no prisoners if your out of line on a Sat night.
Do you honestly think criminal activity stems from the North? Maybe the easily influenced and impressionable darling youngsters in the south west and Gaeltacht areas are actually watching TV - Skins, X-Factor, Big Brother. Why don't you lobby the Broadcasting Authority who are diluting our Gaelicness????
Many of the original tunes now described as “Irish” were sourced from repertoire imported into the society in Ireland through the different eras of military presence, successive waves of migration, and from deliberate teaching of foreign repertory by professional music teachers and dancing masters.
The history of the genre incorporates a number of diverse influences from different geographical sources in relatively recent historical times e.g. the eighteenth-century hornpipe from England and reel from Scotland, and the nineteenth-century polka and mazurka from continental Europe. Most of our dances are of the English court or military origin eg. Set Dances, Quadrilles etc
To insinuate that Irish music is defined by what religion you were born into is SICK and wrong. The reels and jigs played by most likely protestant musicians in Derry and Antrim are the same as we play in other parts of Ireland. Orange Marches are Irish Traditional Music whether you or they like it or not.
Douglas de Hyde, our first President and Gaelic scholar was Protestant and of Planter stock.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
I had limited exposure to the session side of the fleadh - I went to compete and meet friends.
IMO the fleadh organisation in Cavan was much improved over Tullamore and the people were friendlier, so unlike PadraigB my impression of Cavan was positive.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
There are now three discussions on the Cavan Fleadh running at the same time. I often think it would be a good idea if the discussion that draws the most posts be kept at the top of the page, but maybe that's not possible?
I also feel it is a shame that North V South politics have raised their ugly head. Many years ago travelling back to Cavan from Co Tyrone I broke down. One of the RUC Officers who came to check me out spotted my accordion in the car, and we got chatting about Traditional Music'. He took me back to the Police Station where he had a PA. He was a member of a local Orange Accordion Band and we spent the next few hours drinking tea and swapping tunes. He had a terrific knowledge of Irish and Scottish music. I remember one of his favourite marches was Roddy MacCorley, a song about a Presbyterian who was hanged for his part in the 1798 uprising. Sadly the tune was hi-jacked to commemorate a Catholic member of the Legion of Mary, who was shot taking part in an armed raid on a RUC Barracks in 1957, so I imagine he removed it from his repertoire.
I attended the Fleadh Mass in the Cathedral in Cavan, and I sat there thinking 'Why is this a Catholic Mass ? Are there no 'non-catholics' playing Traditional music.? With all that goes on within the Traditional Music tradition I can understand how some of our Unionist Brethren look on it as a tad sectarian
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Sectarian, racist rubbish. People from Northern Ireland are more than welcome anywhere in the Republic. you'd think from that statement we didn't have any little skangers from the republic ruining things for everyone else. Id rather play with a northern irish musician than someone who spoutes this bile any day!
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Of course, people from Northern Ireland are welcome in the Republic and in particular those that like a few tunes. Just as I'd like to think I'm welcome to go up the wee north as I sometimes do. And much of the basic music is shared between the various communities - go read Gary Hastings work, 'With Fife & Drum'.
But like it or not, the music in it's various forms is seen by both sides as a cultural badge and an expression respectively of Republicanism and Unionism. That's why it's grand to meet and play on an individual basis etc. But large festivals and the like, be they Green or Orange in hue are seen as exercises in coat trailing and proclaiming your identity over the other side. This country is not mature enough yet for such events to be held in contentious locations.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Last time I checked the fleadh was organised by the Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. Not the Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Poblacht na Éireann!!! I live in South-west Tyrone, and am just as Irish as people living in the depths of Kerry. I even hold an Irish passport! Musicians living in the north have just as much right to go to the Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann as everyone else. Ireland is divided only politically. One land, one people, one history, one culture, one fleadh!!! There isn't a Republic of Ireland fleadh and a Northern Ireland fleadh. There is an all-Ireland fleadh, for all of Ireland and all of the world. It is ridiculous to blame people from the north for rowdyness at the fleadh. I am really shocked by ed_boot: 'cross the border into Ireland'.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Sorry folks but there are some rediculous opinions out there. I have done loads of travelling and been in session all across the country and many international sessions too. There is one constant... no matter where you go your gonna meet at least one asshole.
People are people. You have many friendly welcoming people, you have as many intimidating unfriendly tools.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
This is absolute Nonsence Now !
< Northern Ireland had many fine protestant fiddlers but they formed an auxiliary and complementary wing of a Gaelic tradition, and they themselves recognised this too.
Once and many years ago at The worst of the Trouble's - In a big Session in Boyle Co, Rosscomon, - There was Ten Musician's mostly Fiddler's -- When One of my friend's a R.C said to another -
You know, there's only 3 Catholic's in this Session ,, { and only one Southener - A Local Piper } -- '' And he was a good friend of mine from down there '' --
jim,,,
Ps- I know the sort you mean thought -- We The Other Prod's -
Use to call then - The Presbyterian Ceoltas -- lol..
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Ireland is a country full of musicians.32 counties full of musicians and music lovers. This has now extended to the planet earth. Hundreds of countries with small pockets of Irish music lovers. Things are great.Life is great for music lovers. I heard their is even a discussion forum now!.Imagine ,with that in mind that there are gobsh*tes denying that great city of Derry the right to even hold a fleadh cheoil. And another gobsh*te that talks about crossing the border from" Northern Ireland" into Ireland.Its beyond nonsense and is divisive and hurtful for those who have done so much for the music in the 6 counties. Maybe they shouldnt be allowed play in the hurling either in case dissidents attack the match. Depressing sh*t here and hard to read without anger.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
All borders are divisive. That's the definition of border.
Some people see borders as positive divisions helping to define cultural/national identity.
Others see them as, at best, irrelevant. And at worst, at least an opportunity to build bridges - both physically and metaphorically. An opportunity to cross the divide.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Er..just one wee comment, made with some timidity - but - "diluting our culture" - surely cultures are always and for ever "diluting" (i,e, influencing) each other? A purist model of cultural interchange is, I believe anthropologists would tell us, not tenable. I live in north Wales. Bloody Romans, coming over here, nicking our copper...er..but building stone houses with central heating and really good roads..yes and marrying our women... but then giving us an excellent alphabet...
Ah, .to hell with it, back to the music. A yob's a yob, wherever.
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Since my comments have been cross-posted and viciously misrepresented, I’ll leave my reply here too.
iwerzon wrote: "If your going to use the term Northern Ireland then use also the proper name for the rest i.e.: Republic of Ireland"
(WRONG! I'm afraid!)
&
big_tab wrote: "I stopped reading this when he talked about crossing the border from Northern Ireland Into Ireland"
I'm afraid that NOT reading is part of the problem here!
Article 4 of "Bunreacht na hÉireann" (the constitution of Ireland) states:
"The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
Look at the UN; it’s either “Éire” or “Ireland”, I’m not making it up, I’m not making a sectarian point, I’m just presenting the reality!
"Republic of Ireland" has no standing in Irish law, even though it tends to be used by UK residents and in sport.
iwerzon wrote: "To insinuate that Irish music is defined by what religion you were born into is SICK and wrong. Douglas de Hyde, our first President and Gaelic scholar was Protestant and Planter stock."
I never said that Irish music was Catholic, I said it was Gaelic! (i.e., originating with the members of the linguistic group). In Scotland there are many reformed speakers of Gaelic and performers of Gaelic music and song. My point was that Irish music comes from the Gaelic tradition and not from the planters, who were not Gaelic, and were originally opposed to all non-religious music. What I said, very politely I believe, was that the many protestant musicians were part of a GAELIC tradition. I said: “formed an auxiliary and complementary wing of a Gaelic tradition”; this was not meant in an opprobrious way, and I fail to see how it could be taken in such a way.
Dubhghlas de hÍde is still a hero to Gaelic speakers, Irish musicians, singers, storytellers, and everyone who was interested in the Gaelic tradition. He was the first president of Ireland and was a protestant, and was an scholar and promoter of the Gaelic tradition when many of the Catholic clergy were opposing Gaelic culture with all their might; does this contradict a single thing I said? Clearly not!
Furthermore, I know that “West-Brit” is a catch-all term of abuse these days, but please get it right! ‘West-Brit’ is not a term that could ever be rightly applied to anyone who defends the integrity of the Gaelic tradition. Try Wikipedia for a start:: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brit
Just to get you started (from Wikipedia):
“West Briton (adjective West British; both often shortened to West Brit) is a pejorative term for an Irish person who is alleged by the user of the term to be excessively sympathetic to the United Kingdom or who takes his/her cultural and social cues from Great Britain.”
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
How rude! (but not something that surprises me, coming from such people.)
"A matter of perspective perhaps?"
Not everything is a matter of perspective. Some things are true and plain to see, but it seems some people rally against the truth. Ireland's Gaelic culture can stand on its own and does not need to be supplamented from outside.
Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Sorry for the cross-thread but this is important and needs to be discussed in it's own right: What do people think?
PadraigB wrote in and earlier thread about the Fleadh2010:
Cavan was probably the worst Fleadh I've been to.
On Thursday when I arrived, Most pubs had CDs playing.
Friday night, there was few sessions and the one I did join ended up being taken over by guitars. Sunday night was a joke, I wasn't really surprised when they canceled the gig rig. Again little or no music around, any hope of sessions at the back of the Farnham Arms were put to an end when the night club started up.
It's been a while since I camped, something has to be done to discourage the Northern crowd that are only interested in drinking from coming to the Fleadh.
Cavan is too small, the venues were too far apart and too few, Cavan is too close to the border and attracted the wrong crowd, The Fleadh at the weekend is not family friendly either
ed_boot continued in same thread:
Comments concerning the intimidating and frequently disgraceful behaviour of some people from Northern Ireland obviously do not apply to everyone from Northern Ireland. (This is really pretty obvious, but some people seem to take offence at what is just a statement of fact: some people from Northern Ireland act in a less than civilised way when they cross the border into Ireland.) But everyone from the border counties knows what’s being discussed here. There is a certain criminal element that comes to Ireland because of its relatively relaxed attention to law and order, in order to behave in a way that would never be tolerated in Northern Ireland. Irish music festivals are not enriched by this behaviour, and it would be far better if these people would stay where they belong and ply their trade there. This is not however just a problem with the Northern Ireland population, all over Ireland there are of gangs of Irish UK-style chavs causing trouble at festivals, in towns and villages, and even in the Gaeltacht. They have no interest in Irish culture or music, they just want to cause trouble. I have been to festivals in the south west of Ireland where (often fairly local) mobs of thuggish trouble-makers have made the whole festival experience a very intimidating one. Was anyone at Feakle in 2007? Remember the smack-heads in the campsite and the local bars? The problem was that the festival organisers had no plan and no willingness to deal with violence, intimidation and threatening behaviour, or even to see it as a real problem.
I know many people who have stopped going to traditional music festivals because of the increasingly threatening atmosphere. In the past 2 years I have gone to better run (and much more relaxing) Scottish festivals instead. I wouldn’t bring kids to many Irish festivals because of the level of intimidation and general chav-like behaviour that is tolerated by the authorities. Drunkenness was frequently associated with music festivals (and without negative connotation!) The Gaelic word “Fleadh” means: “drinking festival”; but this quite alien and menacing chav-culture, deriving from the English criminal class, will, unless it is severely dealt with, kill off Irish traditional music festivals completely. (And there is nothing “partitionist” in recognizing that there is a constitutional partition between Ireland and Northern Ireland, nor in noticing the source of much the criminality at the Fleadh.)
In response to some of Big_Tab’s comments:
Irish traditional music is Gaelic music, as is Scottish traditional music. The puritan planters despised all forms of enjoyment: music, dancing, singing, laughing, drinking, poetry, etc. Northern Ireland had many fine protestant fiddlers but they formed an auxiliary and complementary wing of a Gaelic tradition, and they themselves recognised this too.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by iwerzon
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
If your going to use the term Northern Ireland then use also the proper name for the rest of the island ie Republic of Ireland - One country, 2 jurisdictions.
Fleadh actually means feast as gaeilge.
I'm starting to believe ed_boot is winding us up with his distorted and West-Brit views.
I'm from our northern collective and while I know what a chav is through reading British press I've never heard it applied here until I went to Dublin.
With regards relaxed attention to law and order in the 26 counties. I'm from the border areas and growing up I would far rather be lifted by the RUC than the Gardai in Dundalk. They take no prisoners if your out of line on a Sat night.
Do you honestly think criminal activity stems from the North? Maybe the easily influenced and impressionable darling youngsters in the south west and Gaeltacht areas are actually watching TV - Skins, X-Factor, Big Brother. Why don't you lobby the Broadcasting Authority who are diluting our Gaelicness????
Many of the original tunes now described as “Irish” were sourced from repertoire imported into the society in Ireland through the different eras of military presence, successive waves of migration, and from deliberate teaching of foreign repertory by professional music teachers and dancing masters.
The history of the genre incorporates a number of diverse influences from different geographical sources in relatively recent historical times e.g. the eighteenth-century hornpipe from England and reel from Scotland, and the nineteenth-century polka and mazurka from continental Europe. Most of our dances are of the English court or military origin eg. Set Dances, Quadrilles etc
To insinuate that Irish music is defined by what religion you were born into is SICK and wrong. The reels and jigs played by most likely protestant musicians in Derry and Antrim are the same as we play in other parts of Ireland. Orange Marches are Irish Traditional Music whether you or they like it or not.
Douglas de Hyde, our first President and Gaelic scholar was Protestant and of Planter stock.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by iwerzon
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
I had limited exposure to the session side of the fleadh - I went to compete and meet friends.
IMO the fleadh organisation in Cavan was much improved over Tullamore and the people were friendlier, so unlike PadraigB my impression of Cavan was positive.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by BigDavy
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Racist, sectarian drivel. Jeremy, please remove this offensive nonsense as soon as possible.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
There are now three discussions on the Cavan Fleadh running at the same time. I often think it would be a good idea if the discussion that draws the most posts be kept at the top of the page, but maybe that's not possible?
I also feel it is a shame that North V South politics have raised their ugly head. Many years ago travelling back to Cavan from Co Tyrone I broke down. One of the RUC Officers who came to check me out spotted my accordion in the car, and we got chatting about Traditional Music'. He took me back to the Police Station where he had a PA. He was a member of a local Orange Accordion Band and we spent the next few hours drinking tea and swapping tunes. He had a terrific knowledge of Irish and Scottish music. I remember one of his favourite marches was Roddy MacCorley, a song about a Presbyterian who was hanged for his part in the 1798 uprising. Sadly the tune was hi-jacked to commemorate a Catholic member of the Legion of Mary, who was shot taking part in an armed raid on a RUC Barracks in 1957, so I imagine he removed it from his repertoire.
I attended the Fleadh Mass in the Cathedral in Cavan, and I sat there thinking 'Why is this a Catholic Mass ? Are there no 'non-catholics' playing Traditional music.? With all that goes on within the Traditional Music tradition I can understand how some of our Unionist Brethren look on it as a tad sectarian
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by Free Reed
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Sectarian, racist rubbish. People from Northern Ireland are more than welcome anywhere in the Republic. you'd think from that statement we didn't have any little skangers from the republic ruining things for everyone else. Id rather play with a northern irish musician than someone who spoutes this bile any day!
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by sensibleken
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Of course, people from Northern Ireland are welcome in the Republic and in particular those that like a few tunes. Just as I'd like to think I'm welcome to go up the wee north as I sometimes do. And much of the basic music is shared between the various communities - go read Gary Hastings work, 'With Fife & Drum'.
But like it or not, the music in it's various forms is seen by both sides as a cultural badge and an expression respectively of Republicanism and Unionism. That's why it's grand to meet and play on an individual basis etc. But large festivals and the like, be they Green or Orange in hue are seen as exercises in coat trailing and proclaiming your identity over the other side. This country is not mature enough yet for such events to be held in contentious locations.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by the wounded hussar
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
"deriving from the English criminal class"
Take responsibility for your own dysfunctional society for crying out loud.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Last time I checked the fleadh was organised by the Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. Not the Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Poblacht na Éireann!!! I live in South-west Tyrone, and am just as Irish as people living in the depths of Kerry. I even hold an Irish passport! Musicians living in the north have just as much right to go to the Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann as everyone else. Ireland is divided only politically. One land, one people, one history, one culture, one fleadh!!! There isn't a Republic of Ireland fleadh and a Northern Ireland fleadh. There is an all-Ireland fleadh, for all of Ireland and all of the world. It is ridiculous to blame people from the north for rowdyness at the fleadh. I am really shocked by ed_boot: 'cross the border into Ireland'.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by Feadogmhor
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Feadogmhor, well said!
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by sligeach
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Damn Right Feadogmhor
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by premier
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Sorry folks but there are some rediculous opinions out there. I have done loads of travelling and been in session all across the country and many international sessions too. There is one constant... no matter where you go your gonna meet at least one asshole.
People are people. You have many friendly welcoming people, you have as many intimidating unfriendly tools.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by session savage
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Totally agree with feadógmhór.
# Posted on August 25th 2010 by session savage
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
This is absolute Nonsence Now !
< Northern Ireland had many fine protestant fiddlers but they formed an auxiliary and complementary wing of a Gaelic tradition, and they themselves recognised this too.
Once and many years ago at The worst of the Trouble's - In a big Session in Boyle Co, Rosscomon, - There was Ten Musician's mostly Fiddler's -- When One of my friend's a R.C said to another -
You know, there's only 3 Catholic's in this Session ,, { and only one Southener - A Local Piper } -- '' And he was a good friend of mine from down there '' --
jim,,,
Ps- I know the sort you mean thought -- We The Other Prod's -
Use to call then - The Presbyterian Ceoltas -- lol..
# Posted on August 26th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Why is this thread still even here...
# Posted on August 26th 2010 by Michael Eskin
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Ireland is a country full of musicians.32 counties full of musicians and music lovers. This has now extended to the planet earth. Hundreds of countries with small pockets of Irish music lovers. Things are great.Life is great for music lovers. I heard their is even a discussion forum now!.Imagine ,with that in mind that there are gobsh*tes denying that great city of Derry the right to even hold a fleadh cheoil. And another gobsh*te that talks about crossing the border from" Northern Ireland" into Ireland.Its beyond nonsense and is divisive and hurtful for those who have done so much for the music in the 6 counties. Maybe they shouldnt be allowed play in the hurling either in case dissidents attack the match. Depressing sh*t here and hard to read without anger.
# Posted on August 27th 2010 by big_tab
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
big_tab
Even if I'am from your other side - lol..
This last statement above - '' I TOTALLY AGREE WITH ''
Well said - jim,,,
# Posted on August 27th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
All borders are divisive. That's the definition of border.
Some people see borders as positive divisions helping to define cultural/national identity.
Others see them as, at best, irrelevant. And at worst, at least an opportunity to build bridges - both physically and metaphorically. An opportunity to cross the divide.
# Posted on August 27th 2010 by ...
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
With regard to Fleadh Cheoil na hÉireann there is no border. Comhaltas is a 32 county organization as is the GAA..
# Posted on August 27th 2010 by big_tab
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
And throughout all of Ireland they still have the RNLI. Isn't that great?
Lets start a list of things more important than borders:
1. music
2. saving people's lives at sea
# Posted on August 27th 2010 by ...
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Well we were on a thread about the fleadh but yeah the rescue services are all human more than all Ireland.
# Posted on August 27th 2010 by big_tab
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Er..just one wee comment, made with some timidity - but - "diluting our culture" - surely cultures are always and for ever "diluting" (i,e, influencing) each other? A purist model of cultural interchange is, I believe anthropologists would tell us, not tenable. I live in north Wales. Bloody Romans, coming over here, nicking our copper...er..but building stone houses with central heating and really good roads..yes and marrying our women... but then giving us an excellent alphabet...
Ah, .to hell with it, back to the music. A yob's a yob, wherever.
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by cerrig
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
What have the Romans ever done for us?
# Posted on September 1st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
Since my comments have been cross-posted and viciously misrepresented, I’ll leave my reply here too.
iwerzon wrote: "If your going to use the term Northern Ireland then use also the proper name for the rest i.e.: Republic of Ireland"
(WRONG! I'm afraid!)
&
big_tab wrote: "I stopped reading this when he talked about crossing the border from Northern Ireland Into Ireland"
I'm afraid that NOT reading is part of the problem here!
Article 4 of "Bunreacht na hÉireann" (the constitution of Ireland) states:
"The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland."
Look at the UN; it’s either “Éire” or “Ireland”, I’m not making it up, I’m not making a sectarian point, I’m just presenting the reality!
"Republic of Ireland" has no standing in Irish law, even though it tends to be used by UK residents and in sport.
iwerzon wrote: "To insinuate that Irish music is defined by what religion you were born into is SICK and wrong. Douglas de Hyde, our first President and Gaelic scholar was Protestant and Planter stock."
I never said that Irish music was Catholic, I said it was Gaelic! (i.e., originating with the members of the linguistic group). In Scotland there are many reformed speakers of Gaelic and performers of Gaelic music and song. My point was that Irish music comes from the Gaelic tradition and not from the planters, who were not Gaelic, and were originally opposed to all non-religious music. What I said, very politely I believe, was that the many protestant musicians were part of a GAELIC tradition. I said: “formed an auxiliary and complementary wing of a Gaelic tradition”; this was not meant in an opprobrious way, and I fail to see how it could be taken in such a way.
Dubhghlas de hÍde is still a hero to Gaelic speakers, Irish musicians, singers, storytellers, and everyone who was interested in the Gaelic tradition. He was the first president of Ireland and was a protestant, and was an scholar and promoter of the Gaelic tradition when many of the Catholic clergy were opposing Gaelic culture with all their might; does this contradict a single thing I said? Clearly not!
Furthermore, I know that “West-Brit” is a catch-all term of abuse these days, but please get it right! ‘West-Brit’ is not a term that could ever be rightly applied to anyone who defends the integrity of the Gaelic tradition. Try Wikipedia for a start:: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Brit
Just to get you started (from Wikipedia):
“West Briton (adjective West British; both often shortened to West Brit) is a pejorative term for an Irish person who is alleged by the user of the term to be excessively sympathetic to the United Kingdom or who takes his/her cultural and social cues from Great Britain.”
# Posted on September 3rd 2010 by ed_boot
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
The Original Post:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/25365
# Posted on September 3rd 2010 by ed_boot
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
How do you say sh*t stirrer in Irish then Mr boot? Or would you find that comment as offensive as I have found yours?
A matter of perspective perhaps?
# Posted on September 11th 2010 by bagfed
Re: Northerners Stay Away - Not Welcome at the Fleadh - Diluting our Culture!
How rude! (but not something that surprises me, coming from such people.)
"A matter of perspective perhaps?"
Not everything is a matter of perspective. Some things are true and plain to see, but it seems some people rally against the truth. Ireland's Gaelic culture can stand on its own and does not need to be supplamented from outside.
# Posted on September 25th 2010 by ed_boot