Just wondering if anyone can help me with advice on mandolins.
Since January I have been learning to play Mandolin using an all plywood mandolin but would like to get something that has better tone and volume.
My main interest at the moment is ITM but I would like to get a versatile instrument. My budget is € 250 max. Most of the mandolins I have looked at in this price range seem to be lacking tone and volume.
Someone I know who plays mandolin has suggested Crafter.
I am also interested in the Mandolin made by Celtic Star (which is sold on ebay) and through the web site www.celtic-star.de but I would like to try one out and am concerned about set up etc.
I am not looking for the perfect mandolin but for something with reasonable volume, tone, resonance. That would help me to learn and that I could use with other musicians. I would consider new or secondhand and would be very grateful for any advice you can offer.
The Kentucky KM-505 would be a versatile mandolin, all solid woods, radius fretboard. It has f-holes rather than an oval sound hole, so it would be well suited to playing a variety of styles of music, including trad. Kentucky also does an oval hole mandolin, the KM-172, which is all solid wood as well. A pal of mine just got one to get started out on and I think it was quite good value for the money. Of course it's not quite as versatile what with the oval hole, but would be grand for trad/Old Time music/classical etc. Less ideal for bluegrass though.
I second the vote for Eastmans as well. Whatever you decide on, make sure to get it well set up as that makes all the difference playability wise.
You can get a Ibanez M510bs quite cheap (I think it's about $150 in the states, so it's a bit more expensive in europe).
I was quite amazed by it, seeing as it was really well set up out, without any setup done by the store. It also sounds really good compared to other low end mandolins. Don't think it's solid though.
Epiphone also has a decent mandolin for $200 or something like that.
This is only my second mandolin, after owning a sucky one, so don't take my word on it. Try before you buy
Stay away from Stagg, the one I had was kinda crappy.
Just wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion. Your advice is very helpful. The mandolin I have been using is a plywood Copeland (I think this is from the same factory as Stagg) I bought it new for £ 40 Sterling, which I now see was a false economy.
If the £40 got you hooked then it wasn't a false economy. If you want a mandolin that can sing out in the difficult acoustic environment of a session you're probably not going to get one without spending a few hundred £s, but you might get lucky. What you might get though is something a lot better than what you've got, but you really need to go everywhere that sells mandolins and try everything out including ones that are outside your price range. Go with someone else and get them to listen from across the room to see if the sound carries. You're not going to get a carved top mandolin - if it's got an arched top it will be pressed to shape, probably laminate. Best bet might be to get a flat-top with a nice solid spruce or cedar top. Among the rather too many mandolins I've got littering the place up is one a bit like this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mandolin-/280552212686?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3 and you'd get one of those fairly cheap (someone gave it to me). They have a slotted headstock and seem to be made of solid woods, but they don't have a truss rod and the neck can get bent and pulled forward. I definitely think you need to try before you buy, or you might get one that looks nice but is quiet as a mouse.
I agree fully with Richard.
Rich, what do you reckon to the ozark I linked?[ first post] I reckon it will do the job with out too much of an 'online' risk...
I quite fancy the mandola myself! for a tenner more.
Depends what the job is - if it's to act as a pleasant folksy instrument to strum about the house it might be fine. Mandolins become expensive because of the amount of personal attention and experience they've had in the making. I think you just have to try lots out and hope to find a nice one in your price range.
When I bought my 70£ Czech mandolin I went out with a grand in my pocket and tried every mandolin in Cork for sale. I was looking for volume and clarity. It was the loudest, ok not as nice as the yokes costing 15 times as much... but its grand, does the job with a good set up.
Yes, try out as many as you can.
Nice yokes tintin but often importing from the state means a 22% tax including the 98$ shipping. Those instruments are bound to be 300$ up right? so your looking at about 500$ to buy it in Ireland.
Id also recomend a machine head upgrade on something like the Ozark, They will work but another 50 quid would be well spent IMO .
Yeah, mid-mo became big muddy. And the old Flatiron became Webber (or was it Weber?) after Gibson bought the Flatiron name and look.
Can't tell the players without a program...
It's a shame that the import duties are likely to put them out of range - some of the Big Muddy/Mid-Missouri instruments are really great stuff, and reasonably priced.
I have one of the Ozarks linked to earlier.
It's my first mandolin and I think I need a better one after only a year.
It sounds pretty decent, although I haven't heard any really good ones (outside a noisy pub).
However, the intonation is dodgy - G string is out as soon as you fret!
Also, the frets higher than about 7 are so small it's not easy to fret those notes.
njal, thats the case with all mandolins re. fret size up the neck, you get used to it. As far as being in tune goes, well thats also to do with bridge angle which needs setting up.
Anyway, distance selling regulations mean if you dont like it you return it within a week on buy now items. so its not so much of a gamble.
Thing is, with buying from the states its a lottery. I do it all the time. But with big items you have to accept you might get taxed. I recently bought a bartolex 7 string Classical guitar, got hit for 370e tax.. ouch. Some sellers are prepared to mark down,for import , some not ....and the fact they tax the shipping as well! then you have to pay the customs for doing the job! there's a word for them, and its not nice!
Strings[gostrings.com] usually get through ok, small gadgets like the zoom Q3 even the odd fiddle has made it through ok.... My Godin solid body classical from Canada got hit, but he'd marked it down so I only had to pay 4oe. but the value marked is the
postal insurance so its a risk for the seller.
Thanks for that, spellbreaker - not much experience of mandolins so didn't know whether that was normal.
I mostly play electric guitar with jumbo frets so the tiny mandolin ones take some getting used to!
Will look into setting up the bridge.
Anyway, I reckon for the price the Ozark is decent - and I like the look of it a lot!
What varies a lot is neck width, though saying that Neapolitan mandolins are often somewhat smaller lengthwise.
If you get used to playing the guitar up at the 14thfret and above then thats the same as the mandolin. The 12thfret is equivalent of the open string on the mando. On these cheap yokes like the ozark a set up is essential.
Its straight forward to get the bridge right though; the 12th fret note should be the same as the 12th fret harmonic . move the bridge close to the neck to sharpen the note and vice versa. a bit of practice and you should manage ok. The lower strings, due to their thickness will be at a different position so the bridge will sit at an angle, roughly about a cm further from the neck at the low strings...
Learn your positions on the guitar and play up above the 12th fret and this will transfer somewhat over to the mandolin, and vice versa. There are 3 or 4 basic barre positions which will give you complete command of all the neck on the guitar. I cant recomend them highly enough.
Position playing on the mandolin is fun but pretty much irrelevant for trad. Of course the odd virtuoso' piece like the contradiction or Masons variations , City of Savanagh, but other than this type of thing its all open position.
Cheers, spellbreaker - just sorted out my intonation problems in around 10 minutes!
And you were right - it is about a cm lower on the bass side. My bridge was totally horizontal and is now angled.
I can see the marks in the strings where the saddles had previously been and it's 1cm!
Hi llig, yes I have a lot of instruments and I play most of them, but only 1 at a time! ..
I look on them as tools in the toolbox, when you need a hammer you cant use a screwdriver and vice versa. But just because you have a hammer doesnt mean you have to wander round looking for nails to hit! But when you need a screwdriver its handy to have it in your toolbox.
"Someone I know who plays mandolin has suggested Crafter."
If your friend is referring to their Ovation-style fibreglass mandolins (I haven't seen any others by Crafter), I would stay away from them. They are a good 'quick fix' if you need a mandolin to play in an amplified band, without the hassle of fitting a pickup or miking up, and with minimal risk of feedback. But when played unplugged, the tone is very thin and unsatisfying.
There are various brands doing solid topped mandolins which might fall within or close to your budget - Ashbury, Ozark, Tanglewood, Blue Moon, Washburn and others. I haven't tried all of them, but I did try one of the Ozark Flatiron-style mandolins the other day and was quite impressed by the tone of it. But it is worth bearing in mind that, when you buy a cheaper instrument, it will very likely not have been properly set up; it is worth paying a little extra to get it well set up, as it will improve the ease of playing and maybe also the tone.
Advice on Mandolins
Advice on Mandolins
Just wondering if anyone can help me with advice on mandolins.
Since January I have been learning to play Mandolin using an all plywood mandolin but would like to get something that has better tone and volume.
My main interest at the moment is ITM but I would like to get a versatile instrument. My budget is € 250 max. Most of the mandolins I have looked at in this price range seem to be lacking tone and volume.
Someone I know who plays mandolin has suggested Crafter.
I am also interested in the Mandolin made by Celtic Star (which is sold on ebay) and through the web site www.celtic-star.de but I would like to try one out and am concerned about set up etc.
I am not looking for the perfect mandolin but for something with reasonable volume, tone, resonance. That would help me to learn and that I could use with other musicians. I would consider new or secondhand and would be very grateful for any advice you can offer.
Thanks
Steve
# Posted on August 22nd 2010 by steve101
Re: Advice on Mandolins
This is the kind of thing I use. But first stage is getting it well set up as they are often much too high action . Budget 30 odd for the set up..
.http://cgi.ebay.ie/Ozark-Portuguese-Mandolin-Solid-SP-Top-Solid-Maple-Body-/390226039924?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments
I presume you mean this;http://cgi.ebay.ie/Celtic-Style-Mandolin-The-Fairy-Celtic-Star-/110576436196?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments
looks ok I suppose. Till you play it though you've no idea. Still need to get it set up probably. comes with pick up system. Do you need that?
On line buying is always a risk, thats why I recomend the first model, less risk. Then save up for a handmade yoke in a couple of years ... eg
http://www.franktateinstruments.com/instruments.htm
# Posted on August 22nd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Advice on Mandolins
I don't like the Crafter mandolins, at least I haven't seen a good one yet. I think you would need to spend a bit more for a decent mandolin.
# Posted on August 22nd 2010 by tirvaluk
Re: Advice on Mandolins
The Eastmans I've seen sound pretty good.
http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/names/eastman-md504-%22classic%22-mandolin-and-case--MD504C.htm
I always remind folks too that the many years of enjoyment you get from a quality instrument are well worth it in the long run. If I look at what I spent on my Gibson A4 some years ago it works out to maybe $15/yr.
# Posted on August 22nd 2010 by Boots MacAllen
Re: Advice on Mandolins
The Kentucky KM-505 would be a versatile mandolin, all solid woods, radius fretboard. It has f-holes rather than an oval sound hole, so it would be well suited to playing a variety of styles of music, including trad. Kentucky also does an oval hole mandolin, the KM-172, which is all solid wood as well. A pal of mine just got one to get started out on and I think it was quite good value for the money. Of course it's not quite as versatile what with the oval hole, but would be grand for trad/Old Time music/classical etc. Less ideal for bluegrass though.
I second the vote for Eastmans as well. Whatever you decide on, make sure to get it well set up as that makes all the difference playability wise.
# Posted on August 22nd 2010 by triplet upstairs
Re: Advice on Mandolins
You can get a Ibanez M510bs quite cheap (I think it's about $150 in the states, so it's a bit more expensive in europe).
I was quite amazed by it, seeing as it was really well set up out, without any setup done by the store. It also sounds really good compared to other low end mandolins. Don't think it's solid though.
Epiphone also has a decent mandolin for $200 or something like that.
This is only my second mandolin, after owning a sucky one, so don't take my word on it. Try before you buy
Stay away from Stagg, the one I had was kinda crappy.
# Posted on August 22nd 2010 by footfoot
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Just wanted to thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion. Your advice is very helpful. The mandolin I have been using is a plywood Copeland (I think this is from the same factory as Stagg) I bought it new for £ 40 Sterling, which I now see was a false economy.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by steve101
Re: Advice on Mandolins
If the £40 got you hooked then it wasn't a false economy. If you want a mandolin that can sing out in the difficult acoustic environment of a session you're probably not going to get one without spending a few hundred £s, but you might get lucky. What you might get though is something a lot better than what you've got, but you really need to go everywhere that sells mandolins and try everything out including ones that are outside your price range. Go with someone else and get them to listen from across the room to see if the sound carries. You're not going to get a carved top mandolin - if it's got an arched top it will be pressed to shape, probably laminate. Best bet might be to get a flat-top with a nice solid spruce or cedar top. Among the rather too many mandolins I've got littering the place up is one a bit like this: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mandolin-/280552212686?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3 and you'd get one of those fairly cheap (someone gave it to me). They have a slotted headstock and seem to be made of solid woods, but they don't have a truss rod and the neck can get bent and pulled forward. I definitely think you need to try before you buy, or you might get one that looks nice but is quiet as a mouse.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by RichardB
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Steve,
I have a blue Epiphone (like this ttp://www.mveducation.com/invt/60513) that's just gathering dust and I'd be happy to sell it. I'm in Dublin.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by amhrán
Re: Advice on Mandolins
That should be http://www.mveducation.com/invt/60513
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by amhrán
Re: Advice on Mandolins
I agree fully with Richard.
Rich, what do you reckon to the ozark I linked?[ first post] I reckon it will do the job with out too much of an 'online' risk...
I quite fancy the mandola myself! for a tenner more.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Depends what the job is - if it's to act as a pleasant folksy instrument to strum about the house it might be fine. Mandolins become expensive because of the amount of personal attention and experience they've had in the making. I think you just have to try lots out and hope to find a nice one in your price range.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by RichardB
Re: Advice on Mandolins
When I bought my 70£ Czech mandolin I went out with a grand in my pocket and tried every mandolin in Cork for sale. I was looking for volume and clarity. It was the loudest, ok not as nice as the yokes costing 15 times as much... but its grand, does the job with a good set up.
Yes, try out as many as you can.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Advice on Mandolins
How about something like this? http://www.bigmuddymandolin.com/
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by mcswiss
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Nice yokes tintin but often importing from the state means a 22% tax including the 98$ shipping. Those instruments are bound to be 300$ up right? so your looking at about 500$ to buy it in Ireland.
Id also recomend a machine head upgrade on something like the Ozark, They will work but another 50 quid would be well spent IMO .
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Yes they look great - they used to be Mid-Mo didn't they?
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by RichardB
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Yeah, mid-mo became big muddy. And the old Flatiron became Webber (or was it Weber?) after Gibson bought the Flatiron name and look.
Can't tell the players without a program...
It's a shame that the import duties are likely to put them out of range - some of the Big Muddy/Mid-Missouri instruments are really great stuff, and reasonably priced.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Advice on Mandolins
I have one of the Ozarks linked to earlier.
It's my first mandolin and I think I need a better one after only a year.
It sounds pretty decent, although I haven't heard any really good ones (outside a noisy pub).
However, the intonation is dodgy - G string is out as soon as you fret!
Also, the frets higher than about 7 are so small it's not easy to fret those notes.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by Njal
Re: Advice on Mandolins
For volume and resonance in your price range, consider these:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=resonator+mandolin
Tone is another subject, but you will be heard in a session.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by oldstrings
Re: Advice on Mandolins
njal, thats the case with all mandolins re. fret size up the neck, you get used to it. As far as being in tune goes, well thats also to do with bridge angle which needs setting up.
Anyway, distance selling regulations mean if you dont like it you return it within a week on buy now items. so its not so much of a gamble.
Thing is, with buying from the states its a lottery. I do it all the time. But with big items you have to accept you might get taxed. I recently bought a bartolex 7 string Classical guitar, got hit for 370e tax.. ouch. Some sellers are prepared to mark down,for import , some not ....and the fact they tax the shipping as well! then you have to pay the customs for doing the job! there's a word for them, and its not nice!
Strings[gostrings.com] usually get through ok, small gadgets like the zoom Q3 even the odd fiddle has made it through ok.... My Godin solid body classical from Canada got hit, but he'd marked it down so I only had to pay 4oe. but the value marked is the
postal insurance so its a risk for the seller.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Thanks for that, spellbreaker - not much experience of mandolins so didn't know whether that was normal.
I mostly play electric guitar with jumbo frets so the tiny mandolin ones take some getting used to!
Will look into setting up the bridge.
Anyway, I reckon for the price the Ozark is decent - and I like the look of it a lot!
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by Njal
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Hey spellbreaker, you must have a lot of instruments. How many do you play?
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by ...
Re: Advice on Mandolins
What varies a lot is neck width, though saying that Neapolitan mandolins are often somewhat smaller lengthwise.
If you get used to playing the guitar up at the 14thfret and above then thats the same as the mandolin. The 12thfret is equivalent of the open string on the mando. On these cheap yokes like the ozark a set up is essential.
Its straight forward to get the bridge right though; the 12th fret note should be the same as the 12th fret harmonic . move the bridge close to the neck to sharpen the note and vice versa. a bit of practice and you should manage ok. The lower strings, due to their thickness will be at a different position so the bridge will sit at an angle, roughly about a cm further from the neck at the low strings...
Learn your positions on the guitar and play up above the 12th fret and this will transfer somewhat over to the mandolin, and vice versa. There are 3 or 4 basic barre positions which will give you complete command of all the neck on the guitar. I cant recomend them highly enough.
Position playing on the mandolin is fun but pretty much irrelevant for trad. Of course the odd virtuoso' piece like the contradiction or Masons variations , City of Savanagh, but other than this type of thing its all open position.
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Cheers, spellbreaker - just sorted out my intonation problems in around 10 minutes!
And you were right - it is about a cm lower on the bass side. My bridge was totally horizontal and is now angled.
I can see the marks in the strings where the saddles had previously been and it's 1cm!
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by Njal
Re: Advice on Mandolins
Glad to help Njal...
.. 
But when you need a screwdriver its handy to have it in your toolbox.
Hi llig, yes I have a lot of instruments and I play most of them, but only 1 at a time!
I look on them as tools in the toolbox, when you need a hammer you cant use a screwdriver and vice versa. But just because you have a hammer doesnt mean you have to wander round looking for nails to hit!
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Advice on Mandolins
What an odd analogy. To think of the tunes as bits of hardware that require a "toolbox" of different instruments to "nail".
# Posted on August 23rd 2010 by ...
Re: Advice on Mandolins
"Someone I know who plays mandolin has suggested Crafter."
If your friend is referring to their Ovation-style fibreglass mandolins (I haven't seen any others by Crafter), I would stay away from them. They are a good 'quick fix' if you need a mandolin to play in an amplified band, without the hassle of fitting a pickup or miking up, and with minimal risk of feedback. But when played unplugged, the tone is very thin and unsatisfying.
There are various brands doing solid topped mandolins which might fall within or close to your budget - Ashbury, Ozark, Tanglewood, Blue Moon, Washburn and others. I haven't tried all of them, but I did try one of the Ozark Flatiron-style mandolins the other day and was quite impressed by the tone of it. But it is worth bearing in mind that, when you buy a cheaper instrument, it will very likely not have been properly set up; it is worth paying a little extra to get it well set up, as it will improve the ease of playing and maybe also the tone.
# Posted on August 24th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Advice on Mandolins
As a novice I am very grateful to all of you for your advice. I have arranged to see the Ozark in a few weeks time witout a commitment to buy.
# Posted on August 24th 2010 by steve101