I have been out of the music and session scene for a long time and am looking to get back into it. I have a flute which is years old and not great does, it the trick but I am willing to invest in something that would be great as I'm willing to commit to my playing again.
So the bottom line is..I don't even know where to start in terms of style, type all the basics really. I have looked up many makers and hear Cotter and Cronnolly are some of the best. The one I have at the minute is basic run of the mill picked up in a music shop when I was a kid so I am pretty clueless when it comes to them.
I think i want something that is just basically an all round good 'un, well made, easy enough to fill, and nice around the low notes aswell. Any tips and advice greatly accepted! Thanks!
Does the one you have at the moment have a maker's name on it anywhere? Or any kind of a stamp?
If you do go for a 'new' (to you) flute, do you want a new one? Or an antique? The world seems to divide into two on this point - Matt Molloy manages very nicely on his Pratten, made in 1861 (I think) but other top players like modern makers such as Sam Murray and Hammy Hamilton. There are loads of other names, but quite a few come with a very long waiting list, so check them out first and decide how patient you want to be.
If you decide to go for an antique, try eBay, or find someone who does them up - there are a few dealers/fixer-uppers out there, and if you get stuck, PM me and I'll suggest a couple.
Bet you end up deciding on a modern flute though ...
Hmm...I think for me at the moment a modern/new flute is the right direction..and probably price range, but maybe in the future, if its good enough for Matt...
I'm thinkng a flute made by the above mentioned names for me, or a second hand one from these makers is what I would be looking to get. I have no idea about styles, extras, types etc though so I am looking for more advice in that area. It will definitely be tuneable, and I'm not sure about keys. Is there variations from Pratten and Rose styles...god I really am out of this too long!
As for my current flute in has no stamps, and I have no idea of the origin, maybe the shop (if its still there) could shed some light on this.
Pratten style flutes are louder with a harsher sound. They're too edgy for my taste but a lot of very good (and top) fluters play them. Rudall style flutes are warmer and mellower, and can still pack quite a punch if you get the right one.
As for keys, I'd always have them - 6 at least, although, since my own preference is for antiques, I use an 8-key fllute. But, most of the time, you don't need those two bottom keys. I couldn't do without any of the others, but people do get along perfectly hapily with keyless flutes.
Yes, it definitely needs to be tuneable. If possible, it would be best to try before you buy, because some flutes have keys in awkward places - even flutes made by decent makers. Sometimes this is because they have been made originally to a customer's individual specifications. Check that you are buying a right-handed flute (assuming you play right-handed.)
Embouchure is another factor. Wilkes style flutes (including Olwell's flutes) have a smaller, tighter embouchure hole, but some flutes have a larger hole. I find the larger holed embouchures more difficult to control, but they can give a bigger sound, if you can manage it.
Then there's tone holes. Nice, big ones is the thing to go for, if your hands can manage it. Harder to play, but well worth it for the extra tone.
If you do find somewhere where you can try before you buy, try to take an experienced fluter along with you.
Having said all of that, even if you haven't seen or tried the flute, it would be difficult to go wrong with a Murray.
Hope this helps! And best of luck. It's the best instrument there is.
Hear, hear. Ethical provides a sound advice. Certainly go for a keyed one, if you have funds, they are very handy when you want to diversify from Irish trad music.
Another good source of information is Terry McGee's website, some of it nerdily technical and scientific, but a lot to be learnt at every level (e.g. about woods, keys, maintenance, technique and why does it sound the way it does).
An important point is whether the flute you buy now is really going to be your flute for the long term. More likely is that you play for a few years and then, with your increased knowledge and experience, you start the hunt for "your" flute.
On the other hand there is a strong school of thought that says get the best flute you can afford now and learn to play that one. But this still doesn't change the fact that you might later, as a result of your experience, want a diferent flute. e.g. bigger bore, smaller holes, different embouchure, different "feel". Many flute players go through a phase of trying out lots of other flutes before settling on what they want to stick with.
Keys are great and if money is no object,then buy a keyed flute, though this can also involve a longer waiting time than a keyless if ordering from a maker. Doc Jones' online store is a great place to start. Chiff and Fipple's archive of old posts has a lot of discussion of many different makers and their flutes.
My personal recommendation would be to buy a good mid-range keyless which you can get into your hands quite quicky and start playing it as soon and as much as possible. Then, when you feel the need, use your newly won experience to start looking at other flutes...
I personally would find the casey burns folk flute a good starting point (I own one of the two piece ones in Mopane and still keep it as my camp-fire flute. These have no tuning slide, but can be tuned within a reasonable range by pulling the head out.). Or at a higher price, a good keyless with a tuning slide from any of the current well regarded makers.
In my humble opinion, getting a "mid-range" flute if you have the means to buy a really good one and fast (as on Doc J's site) misses the point. Especially that good flutes tend to hold value and are quite easily resaleable (and if you buy from Doc J, if I recall well, he is quite happy to take back the flute if you are dissatisfied with it).
"Matt Molloy manages very nicely on his Pratten, made in 1861" -- nope -- MM plays an Olwell. Prattens are great but most good modern flutes are better. And I doubt many accomplished flute players would recommend a Cronnolly. He is just not in the same league as Eamonn Cotter. For the money you can't beat Martin Doyle's flutes.
Whatever you do buy make sure you can return it if for some reason it doesn't suit you.
Naja, if you have lots of money and can buy it fast, then get a top-notch one. No argument from me there. As long as you can get playing on a decent instrument as soon as possible. A good "mid-range" (as I call it) flute will be worlds better than what he has right now. Mid range keyless being for me anything between about 300€ and 800€.
I would point out though, that it is a buyer's market for used flutes right now - i.e. good flutes aren't quite as easy to dispose of as one might think. Though that will (hopefully) change.
First of all though, if you are Galway/Mayo based, you really should do the legwork and pay a visit to makers in your area. Try out the flutes, see what they feel like, imbibe the knowledge etc. Galway is the city of flute makers, at least three I know of are living there (and I don't know too much, mind you, so the place must be swarming with them...) Doyle, if I recall well, moved to Clare some time ago, so he's not that far away.
Also, in Ennis there is François Baubet, a young maker whose prices are very reasonable for top quality flutes. Martin Doyle lives in Liscannor, Co Clare.
You'd do well to ignore 90% of what is posted here. There's a lot of misinformation, starting with the recommendation for large finger holes ("...tone holes. Nice, big ones is the thing to go for,... Harder to play, but well worth it for the extra tone.") and ending with the recommendation for McGee flutes.
There are plenty of good makers to choose from in Ireland, so I'd stay local, if I were you.
Some top Irish flute makers have been mentioned, like Hamilton, Doyle, Murray, Cotter... I've also heard good things about Glenn Watson (Galway).
See what fits your budget/patience, and then place an order with one of the above!
I don't know that you should rush to buy a keyed flute, unless you can clearly articulate why you need the keys. There are thousands of tunes you can play without, and keys add lots of cost and time to your order.
The three piece ergonomic version - with a hard case and case cover for half price.
I like the Healy very much. It's comfortable, fast, looks great, and has no muss/no fuss tenons.
The tone is solid and full with a nice low D, and intonation is excellent.
It has a sterling silver tuning slide.
Actually, that was in 1997, so I suppose it could be out of date. Mind you, it's still the interview on MM's website, and my understanding was that it was still the flulte that MM plays mainly.
Get an unkeyed olwell pratten. It's one of the best flutes you can possible have plus the price is very fair and wait is short. My hunch is that you will not want another flute after that, but by all means keep on trying out other flute hardware and get on lists for keyed flutes.
My point here is that, given that you have no embrochure now, it is pretty pointless to cogitate on which flute you want. Get the best flute in your hands now and fine-tune your preferences later. The unkeyed olwell will always have a great resale value if you decide to get something else.
Just to say - really knackered and stressed earlier - sorry for any abrasiveness. Still 'n' all, if MM does now play his Olwell more than his Pratten, does anybody know when he woud have made that switch? It'd be interesting to know ...
I would definitely recommend Terry Mcgee. I have one of his GLP flutes and love it immensly. It fits my hands perfectly and has a fabulous tone. Not to mention that fact that terry was so easy and accomodating to deal with. At the very least stop by his website http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/ it has loads of really useful information
Has anyone mentioned Michael Grinter? He makes great playing Rudalls. I agree with everyone recommending Hammy and Pat Olwell's flutes as well. I love my keyless Olwell.
Buy a good flute to start it will hold it's value for resale and will always be a pleasure to play. My first teacher recommended a 2-keyed Hammy Hamilton flute http://www.hamiltonflutes.com/Prices.html but
I'm not sure if he makes 2-keyed anymore. From the start the sound was round, solid and the timbre was just gorgeous. I've since bought a Patrick Olwell flute which was lovely also but reverted back to the Hammy within six months and still play the Hammy (and sold on the Olwell).
Also, try to meet up with flute players at sessions and workshops and ask to try their flute, they usually don't mind once you're very respectful of their instrument.
I didn't notice any mention of Aebi flutes. There is a beauty of a blackwood 8 key at irish flutestore. Lots of good buzz on C&F about Aebi Flutes, and the price for this almost new 8key is good, though beyond my means, otherwise I would have grabbed it up. So if you have the means and want a flute you can develop your skills into and have it hold value, its one to consider. There' also a gorgeous mcGee Boxwood 6key Rudall Perfected there as well, if you want your ornamentaion to sing out, not to mention the eye candy value of a keyed boxwood.
New Flute...but which one?
New Flute...but which one?
I have been out of the music and session scene for a long time and am looking to get back into it. I have a flute which is years old and not great does, it the trick but I am willing to invest in something that would be great as I'm willing to commit to my playing again.
So the bottom line is..I don't even know where to start in terms of style, type all the basics really. I have looked up many makers and hear Cotter and Cronnolly are some of the best. The one I have at the minute is basic run of the mill picked up in a music shop when I was a kid so I am pretty clueless when it comes to them.
I think i want something that is just basically an all round good 'un, well made, easy enough to fill, and nice around the low notes aswell. Any tips and advice greatly accepted! Thanks!
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by MsWFlute
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Does the one you have at the moment have a maker's name on it anywhere? Or any kind of a stamp?
If you do go for a 'new' (to you) flute, do you want a new one? Or an antique? The world seems to divide into two on this point - Matt Molloy manages very nicely on his Pratten, made in 1861 (I think) but other top players like modern makers such as Sam Murray and Hammy Hamilton. There are loads of other names, but quite a few come with a very long waiting list, so check them out first and decide how patient you want to be.
If you decide to go for an antique, try eBay, or find someone who does them up - there are a few dealers/fixer-uppers out there, and if you get stuck, PM me and I'll suggest a couple.
Bet you end up deciding on a modern flute though ...
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Thanks for the reply
Hmm...I think for me at the moment a modern/new flute is the right direction..and probably price range, but maybe in the future, if its good enough for Matt...
I'm thinkng a flute made by the above mentioned names for me, or a second hand one from these makers is what I would be looking to get. I have no idea about styles, extras, types etc though so I am looking for more advice in that area. It will definitely be tuneable, and I'm not sure about keys. Is there variations from Pratten and Rose styles...god I really am out of this too long!
As for my current flute in has no stamps, and I have no idea of the origin, maybe the shop (if its still there) could shed some light on this.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by MsWFlute
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Check at the Chiff and Fipple here: http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewforum.php?f=35
Lots of good used flutes available and I've never had a bad buying or selling experience.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by plunk111
Re: New Flute...but which one?
https://www.irishflutestore.com/newsite/products.php?c1=55
You should check here, too. He currently has a pre-owned, Sam Murray flute that comes with a case.
Best of luck!
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by cfmgeek
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Doc Jones is re-doing his website - you need to go to: shop.irishflutestore.com
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by plunk111
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Pratten style flutes are louder with a harsher sound. They're too edgy for my taste but a lot of very good (and top) fluters play them. Rudall style flutes are warmer and mellower, and can still pack quite a punch if you get the right one.
As for keys, I'd always have them - 6 at least, although, since my own preference is for antiques, I use an 8-key fllute. But, most of the time, you don't need those two bottom keys. I couldn't do without any of the others, but people do get along perfectly hapily with keyless flutes.
Yes, it definitely needs to be tuneable. If possible, it would be best to try before you buy, because some flutes have keys in awkward places - even flutes made by decent makers. Sometimes this is because they have been made originally to a customer's individual specifications. Check that you are buying a right-handed flute (assuming you play right-handed.)
Embouchure is another factor. Wilkes style flutes (including Olwell's flutes) have a smaller, tighter embouchure hole, but some flutes have a larger hole. I find the larger holed embouchures more difficult to control, but they can give a bigger sound, if you can manage it.
Then there's tone holes. Nice, big ones is the thing to go for, if your hands can manage it. Harder to play, but well worth it for the extra tone.
If you do find somewhere where you can try before you buy, try to take an experienced fluter along with you.
Having said all of that, even if you haven't seen or tried the flute, it would be difficult to go wrong with a Murray.
Hope this helps! And best of luck. It's the best instrument there is.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Hear, hear. Ethical provides a sound advice. Certainly go for a keyed one, if you have funds, they are very handy when you want to diversify from Irish trad music.
Another good source of information is Terry McGee's website, some of it nerdily technical and scientific, but a lot to be learnt at every level (e.g. about woods, keys, maintenance, technique and why does it sound the way it does).
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by Janek
Re: New Flute...but which one?
An important point is whether the flute you buy now is really going to be your flute for the long term. More likely is that you play for a few years and then, with your increased knowledge and experience, you start the hunt for "your" flute.
On the other hand there is a strong school of thought that says get the best flute you can afford now and learn to play that one. But this still doesn't change the fact that you might later, as a result of your experience, want a diferent flute. e.g. bigger bore, smaller holes, different embouchure, different "feel". Many flute players go through a phase of trying out lots of other flutes before settling on what they want to stick with.
Keys are great and if money is no object,then buy a keyed flute, though this can also involve a longer waiting time than a keyless if ordering from a maker. Doc Jones' online store is a great place to start. Chiff and Fipple's archive of old posts has a lot of discussion of many different makers and their flutes.
My personal recommendation would be to buy a good mid-range keyless which you can get into your hands quite quicky and start playing it as soon and as much as possible. Then, when you feel the need, use your newly won experience to start looking at other flutes...
I personally would find the casey burns folk flute a good starting point (I own one of the two piece ones in Mopane and still keep it as my camp-fire flute. These have no tuning slide, but can be tuned within a reasonable range by pulling the head out.). Or at a higher price, a good keyless with a tuning slide from any of the current well regarded makers.
And Ethical blend's advice is pretty sound too.
Good luck
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by Crackpot
Re: New Flute...but which one?
In my humble opinion, getting a "mid-range" flute if you have the means to buy a really good one and fast (as on Doc J's site) misses the point. Especially that good flutes tend to hold value and are quite easily resaleable (and if you buy from Doc J, if I recall well, he is quite happy to take back the flute if you are dissatisfied with it).
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by Janek
Re: New Flute
"Matt Molloy manages very nicely on his Pratten, made in 1861" -- nope -- MM plays an Olwell. Prattens are great but most good modern flutes are better. And I doubt many accomplished flute players would recommend a Cronnolly. He is just not in the same league as Eamonn Cotter. For the money you can't beat Martin Doyle's flutes.
Whatever you do buy make sure you can return it if for some reason it doesn't suit you.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by David Levine
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Naja, if you have lots of money and can buy it fast, then get a top-notch one. No argument from me there. As long as you can get playing on a decent instrument as soon as possible. A good "mid-range" (as I call it) flute will be worlds better than what he has right now. Mid range keyless being for me anything between about 300€ and 800€.
I would point out though, that it is a buyer's market for used flutes right now - i.e. good flutes aren't quite as easy to dispose of as one might think. Though that will (hopefully) change.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by Crackpot
Re: New Flute...but which one?
First of all though, if you are Galway/Mayo based, you really should do the legwork and pay a visit to makers in your area. Try out the flutes, see what they feel like, imbibe the knowledge etc. Galway is the city of flute makers, at least three I know of are living there (and I don't know too much, mind you, so the place must be swarming with them...) Doyle, if I recall well, moved to Clare some time ago, so he's not that far away.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by Janek
Re: New Flutes
Also, in Ennis there is François Baubet, a young maker whose prices are very reasonable for top quality flutes. Martin Doyle lives in Liscannor, Co Clare.
You'd do well to ignore 90% of what is posted here. There's a lot of misinformation, starting with the recommendation for large finger holes ("...tone holes. Nice, big ones is the thing to go for,... Harder to play, but well worth it for the extra tone.") and ending with the recommendation for McGee flutes.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by David Levine
Re: New Flute...but which one?
There are plenty of good makers to choose from in Ireland, so I'd stay local, if I were you.
Some top Irish flute makers have been mentioned, like Hamilton, Doyle, Murray, Cotter... I've also heard good things about Glenn Watson (Galway).
See what fits your budget/patience, and then place an order with one of the above!
I don't know that you should rush to buy a keyed flute, unless you can clearly articulate why you need the keys. There are thousands of tunes you can play without, and keys add lots of cost and time to your order.
Here's another good resource, including contact info for many makers: http://www.firescribble.net/flute
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by mcswiss
Re: New Flute...but which one?
I have one of these available to sell:
http://www.skiphealy.com/keylessflute_sixhole
The three piece ergonomic version - with a hard case and case cover for half price.
I like the Healy very much. It's comfortable, fast, looks great, and has no muss/no fuss tenons.
The tone is solid and full with a nice low D, and intonation is excellent.
It has a sterling silver tuning slide.
I'm replacing it with a Hammy keyless.
Send an email if you're interested or want pics.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by Toppish
Re: New Flute...but which one?
You can read for yourself what flute Matt Molloy plays, whatever other flutes he owns:
http://www.firescribble.net/flute/molloy.html
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: New Flute...but which one?
So, you choose whose advice to ignore.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Actually, that was in 1997, so I suppose it could be out of date. Mind you, it's still the interview on MM's website, and my understanding was that it was still the flulte that MM plays mainly.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Get an unkeyed olwell pratten. It's one of the best flutes you can possible have plus the price is very fair and wait is short. My hunch is that you will not want another flute after that, but by all means keep on trying out other flute hardware and get on lists for keyed flutes.
My point here is that, given that you have no embrochure now, it is pretty pointless to cogitate on which flute you want. Get the best flute in your hands now and fine-tune your preferences later. The unkeyed olwell will always have a great resale value if you decide to get something else.
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by Brendan
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Just to say - really knackered and stressed earlier - sorry for any abrasiveness. Still 'n' all, if MM does now play his Olwell more than his Pratten, does anybody know when he woud have made that switch? It'd be interesting to know ...
# Posted on August 19th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: New Flute...but which one?
I would definitely recommend Terry Mcgee. I have one of his GLP flutes and love it immensly. It fits my hands perfectly and has a fabulous tone. Not to mention that fact that terry was so easy and accomodating to deal with. At the very least stop by his website http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/ it has loads of really useful information
# Posted on August 20th 2010 by frogeyes
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Has anyone mentioned Michael Grinter? He makes great playing Rudalls. I agree with everyone recommending Hammy and Pat Olwell's flutes as well. I love my keyless Olwell.
# Posted on August 21st 2010 by ElaineT
Re: New Flute...but which one?
Buy a good flute to start it will hold it's value for resale and will always be a pleasure to play. My first teacher recommended a 2-keyed Hammy Hamilton flute http://www.hamiltonflutes.com/Prices.html but
I'm not sure if he makes 2-keyed anymore. From the start the sound was round, solid and the timbre was just gorgeous. I've since bought a Patrick Olwell flute which was lovely also but reverted back to the Hammy within six months and still play the Hammy (and sold on the Olwell).
Also, try to meet up with flute players at sessions and workshops and ask to try their flute, they usually don't mind once you're very respectful of their instrument.
# Posted on August 21st 2010 by gtag
Re: New Flute...but which one?
I didn't notice any mention of Aebi flutes. There is a beauty of a blackwood 8 key at irish flutestore. Lots of good buzz on C&F about Aebi Flutes, and the price for this almost new 8key is good, though beyond my means, otherwise I would have grabbed it up. So if you have the means and want a flute you can develop your skills into and have it hold value, its one to consider. There' also a gorgeous mcGee Boxwood 6key Rudall Perfected there as well, if you want your ornamentaion to sing out, not to mention the eye candy value of a keyed boxwood.
# Posted on August 21st 2010 by ancientfifer