picking up from a thread over the weekend - there is an assumption that factory-made instruments are necessarily inferior to hand-made. i guess this is probably true of most wooden instruments (fiddles etc) but i'm not so sure about banjos.
the banjo is essentially a "component" item - the really important aspects (in my view) are the QUALITY of the parts and the ACCURACY of the assembly. who made the parts and where they were made seems of lesser importance.
i've had rather more than 3000 banjos through my shop over the last 10 years and there aren't many types of banjo that i haven't dismantled, refurbished and rebuilt. i've seen loads of pre-1940 factory-made instruments that are of super quality - and quite a few modern hand-made instruments that i wasn't at all happy with.
i think you need to assess any banjo on its own quality and not jump to any prejudicial conclusion based on an assumption that is demonstrably untrue when speaking of pre-1940 banjos.
so to the real question - are there any factories still making banjos to similar standards to those that applied pre-1940? in the USA? - certainly - but none of them seem to know (or care) much about the tenor banjo any more. in the far east? - well, i'd say that component quality has improved from at least one factory by 300% in the last 5 years. assembly quality may still leave a little to be desired but with proper quality control and attention to set-up - i think you CAN get a factory-made modern instrument that is the equal of many of the more modest hand-made items - and definitely superior to some.
this doesn't mean that i'm at all happy with the general quality of the mass-produced output from some far eastern factories - but i think others ought to be given a fair trial before being rejected.
anyone had experience relating to this that they'd care to share?
Hey,
I play a Banjo made in Taiwan. Now all my other insturments, my harp, fiddle, and bodhran, are all top notch quality. But more about the banjo. I went down to Nashville to a Gibson store where the handmake all their own Banjo's, Dulcimers, and Mandolins. I picked up a $6,000 banjo, and quite honestly, the sound quailty wasen't that much different. The only difference I noticed was the weight of the instument. I think I'll stick to my $500 Taiwanise banjo.
Interesting thread, I have certainly had mixed experiences with the variety of banjos that have passed through my hands. Some of the old ones have been very nice, but, for whatever reason, I seem to have gravitated towards newer instruments, although the vegavox III you sold me is still my favourite!
In respect of new handmade instruments, I did have a poor experience with a famous Irish maker (who will remain nameless), as the banjo he shipped me was badly put together. The profile of the neck where it joined the body was very poorly done which meant that the four different shims had been used to tighten it up. Clearly this is not what you would expect from a top maker, who is rightly praised for the tone of his banjos. Seemingly this was a "friday afternoon" banjo. After a bit of work by a skilled luthier it was sorted out and is now on fine form, but it was not exactly what you would expect and I am sure that if i had been living down the road it would all have been sorted out by the maker - such is the handicap of long distance banjo buying.
The quality of the Goldtone components that you use in the banjos you make is certainly very high. The slab of ebony on the fingerboard alone speaks volumes. While they are short on the luxury decoration you can't fault the basic quality and playability, which surely is the thing that counts.
So much of the sound of a banjo is in the set up, and this is an art-correct head tension, choice of bridge, slight bow in the neck, choice of strings. All of these factors will vary from one banjo to another.
I've got a '99 Epiphone 5-string banjo which is crap. It is beautiful to look at, but it sounds like someone beating a tin can with a tortoise.
I thought that I had done a "great" job on the setup, but I was wrong. I met up with this banjo player I know, who instantly started re-doing the setup. He tightened the head to an extreme point (compared to the way it was) and replaced the scap-wood-bridge with a thich Stelling bridge. I also changed the high D and G strings with ,011 instead of the ,010 I had been using. Now It's much better. I had planned to sell it back then, but I decided to keep it as I was thrilled with the "new" sound.
My point is, even the worst banjo can be made decent with the proper set-up. And even the best quality banjo can sound bad if the set-up is done in a bad way.
The problem is, that most music-stores sells primarily guitars and basses. They don't know much about banjos. When visiting the stores that sell a banjo or two around here, I always tries tha banjo, and tell the clerk about the set-up problem. It's a shame that so many fine banjos aren't being sold, or drops in value due to bad set-up.
Lars, Many banjo players say that the Renaissance heads do wonders for their banjos. Have you tried one of them? It might improve your banjo even more.
The problem of setting-up the instrument doesn't affect just banjos! Go into almost any general music store of the type that sells fiddles on the same shelf as banjos, trumpets and kazoos, and I'll show you fiddles that are likely to be appallingly badly set up, so bad in fact as to render them useless for the beginner, let alone the more experienced player. This is a great shame, because such stores usually stock mass-produced fiddles (e.g.from the Far East and Eastern Europe) and the bad setting-up gives these instruments an unjustified bad name. In fact, many factory fiddles, if correctly set up, will give many years of pleasure to beginners, intermediate players, and even the advanced.
Trevor
Renaissance are relatively new synthetic heads made by Remo. They seem to be preferred by clawhammer players. You should be able to see one on a banjo here:
banjos - factory- vs hand-made
banjos - factory- vs hand-made
picking up from a thread over the weekend - there is an assumption that factory-made instruments are necessarily inferior to hand-made. i guess this is probably true of most wooden instruments (fiddles etc) but i'm not so sure about banjos.
the banjo is essentially a "component" item - the really important aspects (in my view) are the QUALITY of the parts and the ACCURACY of the assembly. who made the parts and where they were made seems of lesser importance.
i've had rather more than 3000 banjos through my shop over the last 10 years and there aren't many types of banjo that i haven't dismantled, refurbished and rebuilt. i've seen loads of pre-1940 factory-made instruments that are of super quality - and quite a few modern hand-made instruments that i wasn't at all happy with.
i think you need to assess any banjo on its own quality and not jump to any prejudicial conclusion based on an assumption that is demonstrably untrue when speaking of pre-1940 banjos.
so to the real question - are there any factories still making banjos to similar standards to those that applied pre-1940? in the USA? - certainly - but none of them seem to know (or care) much about the tenor banjo any more. in the far east? - well, i'd say that component quality has improved from at least one factory by 300% in the last 5 years. assembly quality may still leave a little to be desired but with proper quality control and attention to set-up - i think you CAN get a factory-made modern instrument that is the equal of many of the more modest hand-made items - and definitely superior to some.
this doesn't mean that i'm at all happy with the general quality of the mass-produced output from some far eastern factories - but i think others ought to be given a fair trial before being rejected.
anyone had experience relating to this that they'd care to share?
# Posted on December 15th 2003 by teetotaller
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
Hey,
I play a Banjo made in Taiwan. Now all my other insturments, my harp, fiddle, and bodhran, are all top notch quality. But more about the banjo. I went down to Nashville to a Gibson store where the handmake all their own Banjo's, Dulcimers, and Mandolins. I picked up a $6,000 banjo, and quite honestly, the sound quailty wasen't that much different. The only difference I noticed was the weight of the instument. I think I'll stick to my $500 Taiwanise banjo.
# Posted on December 15th 2003 by Harper_Lad
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
Hi Andy
Interesting thread, I have certainly had mixed experiences with the variety of banjos that have passed through my hands. Some of the old ones have been very nice, but, for whatever reason, I seem to have gravitated towards newer instruments, although the vegavox III you sold me is still my favourite!
In respect of new handmade instruments, I did have a poor experience with a famous Irish maker (who will remain nameless), as the banjo he shipped me was badly put together. The profile of the neck where it joined the body was very poorly done which meant that the four different shims had been used to tighten it up. Clearly this is not what you would expect from a top maker, who is rightly praised for the tone of his banjos. Seemingly this was a "friday afternoon" banjo. After a bit of work by a skilled luthier it was sorted out and is now on fine form, but it was not exactly what you would expect and I am sure that if i had been living down the road it would all have been sorted out by the maker - such is the handicap of long distance banjo buying.
The quality of the Goldtone components that you use in the banjos you make is certainly very high. The slab of ebony on the fingerboard alone speaks volumes. While they are short on the luxury decoration you can't fault the basic quality and playability, which surely is the thing that counts.
nick
# Posted on December 15th 2003 by nick b
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
So much of the sound of a banjo is in the set up, and this is an art-correct head tension, choice of bridge, slight bow in the neck, choice of strings. All of these factors will vary from one banjo to another.
# Posted on December 16th 2003 by griffith
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
I've got a '99 Epiphone 5-string banjo which is crap. It is beautiful to look at, but it sounds like someone beating a tin can with a tortoise.
I thought that I had done a "great" job on the setup, but I was wrong. I met up with this banjo player I know, who instantly started re-doing the setup. He tightened the head to an extreme point (compared to the way it was) and replaced the scap-wood-bridge with a thich Stelling bridge. I also changed the high D and G strings with ,011 instead of the ,010 I had been using. Now It's much better. I had planned to sell it back then, but I decided to keep it as I was thrilled with the "new" sound.
My point is, even the worst banjo can be made decent with the proper set-up. And even the best quality banjo can sound bad if the set-up is done in a bad way.
The problem is, that most music-stores sells primarily guitars and basses. They don't know much about banjos. When visiting the stores that sell a banjo or two around here, I always tries tha banjo, and tell the clerk about the set-up problem. It's a shame that so many fine banjos aren't being sold, or drops in value due to bad set-up.
Lars.
# Posted on December 16th 2003 by Larshansen
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
Lars, Many banjo players say that the Renaissance heads do wonders for their banjos. Have you tried one of them? It might improve your banjo even more.
Steve
# Posted on December 16th 2003 by SteveKendall
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
The problem of setting-up the instrument doesn't affect just banjos! Go into almost any general music store of the type that sells fiddles on the same shelf as banjos, trumpets and kazoos, and I'll show you fiddles that are likely to be appallingly badly set up, so bad in fact as to render them useless for the beginner, let alone the more experienced player. This is a great shame, because such stores usually stock mass-produced fiddles (e.g.from the Far East and Eastern Europe) and the bad setting-up gives these instruments an unjustified bad name. In fact, many factory fiddles, if correctly set up, will give many years of pleasure to beginners, intermediate players, and even the advanced.
Trevor
# Posted on December 16th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
Rennaisance head, you say? What on earth is that?
I currently use a remo, which was on when I bought the banjo 4 years ago.
I just got a new banjo, and I'm thinking of trying out the 5-star head.
Lars.
# Posted on December 16th 2003 by Larshansen
Re: banjos - factory- vs hand-made
Renaissance are relatively new synthetic heads made by Remo. They seem to be preferred by clawhammer players. You should be able to see one on a banjo here:
http://zeppmusic.com/used.htm#26wl
Steve
# Posted on December 16th 2003 by SteveKendall