At the point of posting this: 10 tunes in a total of 6 recordings. 6 tunes not in any recordings One eff up, a composition, others.. ..who know!... .....but some continuing value from Ceolachan.
Time for tune submission to be more heavily moderated?
You will have to forgive Jamie. He has been living in Dundee too long and a grasp of the English language seems to have eluded him.
I believe he is saying of 10 most recent tunes they are in a combined total of 6 albums. 6 of the tunes are not on any album at all. One of the tunes is a bad submission. Who can guess to the origin of many of the others? Ceolachan still proves his worth.
He then suggests that perhaps the tunes section should be more heavily moderated.
For some comparison statistics Jamie has posted 17 tunes, 6 of which are his own compositions and 7 of which can not be found on any albums listed here.
The majority of the ggod transcriptions in the tune section have been submitted by just a handful of members. Unfortunately most of these folk don't post tunes anymore - for a variety of justifiable reasons I'm sure. I still use it for reference but most tunes posted now are just rubbish.
Just having a look at my own submissions out of interest. I have submitted 23 tunes, one of which is my own. 4 of them are not on any albums although that is a little surprising seeing as one of those tunes is Donald MacLean of Lewis!!
I'd like to thank everyone who posts tunes. Every time I think I've come across one not on here, I eventually find it on here, which is how I've managed to keep my perfect record of 0 tunes posted alive and well.
The quality of submitted tunes is declining because the wellspring of traditional ones is drying up! It's a finite resource, people, and we should start conserving until we've developed the technology for alternative sources of tuneage!
Seriously, I am wondering how many tunes people play that can't already be found in the archive... I play maybe 2 or 3, and at least one of those can be found in the comments section of another tune. So *of course* the tunes being submitted these days aren't on many recordings, and contain a lot of new compositions.
Most of the common tunes are on here for sure but there are still literally thousands that are not, especially if you look just outside the Irish repertoire, there are thousands of Scottish tunes you could hear at a session that aren't on here.
NCFA (or is perhaps better as NFCA!) - yup the arrogance of youth and the ignorance of the unitiated. Regret it totally. My self promotional BS has thankfully ceased with an iota of experience; mind you so has my interest in this site: whereas playing tunes and learning them from other players is actually fun. These days, submitted tunes here are too often gash....
....turn the tune section into a random tune selector of 10 tunes
...or turn the submission into the submission of links to mp3s and vids of the tunes instead
...or heavily moderate the tune submission
...and ravage the databse and get rid of the sh1te (including mine)
...or start posting some G&S dittys, replete with innuendo and costume suggestions - that would be an improvement?
Probably a better idea is to revisit tunes already submitted and
submit alternative or better versions in the comments section.
But this very time-consuming. Personally I'd have to either do
that or continue my daily practicing, but not both. Like Will, I'm
more interested in the playing part of it -- I have a lot of work to do.
Unfortunately, too many of the new(er) members to this site don't bother to read the FAQs. Most are very enthusiastic to share tunes from their repertoire (both traditional and newly composed), but are unaware of a) how many of their tunes are already submitted (usually under a different name) and thus escape being detected as a duplicate submission, and b) not everyone on the mustard-boards gives a rat's patootie about your cat that diddled on the rug which inspired you to compose 'Cat Puke On the Carpet' (tongue firmly in cheek).
When I joined almost a year ago, I was just as eager to share some the more arcane jewels I came across in my travels; little did I know most of them were already on here in one form or another. Likewise I thought I had some great tunes to share from my own wellspring.
Thanks to Ceolachan, he pointed me to the Details tab where along with your bio one can post the Abcs to your own works that won't dillute the quality of trad tunes that get posted. (I know from experience that when you give birth to a tune, you think it's the greatest tune ever created, when in reality, most likely the next person might think it sh1te.)
By posting Abcs in your profile, mustardboardians can peruse your works without offending the more purist members who prefer trad works only to be submitted.
FWIW...
yea but half a bakers dozen plus two score more of tunes have been recorded but a brace of tunes plus a monkey and a hand have not . (at time of posting )
I often look for a tune here when I want to learn it. The dots are sometimes helpful. Just as often, not. But it's a nice resource all the same.
If a tune isn't here and I've learned it then I'll try to work out the abc and post the tune.
It's a lot like seeders and leeches.
I never bother to look at the newly composed tunes posted here. I still have too many of the old ones to learn -- and too many of the new ones by people like Charley Lennon, Paddy O'Brien, Paddy Fahey, Tommy Peoples, Billy McComiskey, Josie Marsh, Sean Ryan, et al.
I don't bother looking at new compositions here either Cocus, other than tunes by well known folk.
I think the database would be greatly improved if Jeremy would get a bit of help. Maybe some experienced players like Kenny and Will for example who could maybe correct mistakes and replace poor versions with more accepted ones, putting the other versions in the comments.
The comments section is the most important for me. I recently had my laptop stolen, losing years of transcriptions from all sorts of sources. Luckily I got into the habit of posting tune versions in the comment sections here so have managed to recover quite a lot of stuff.
The main problem with the database for me is that mistakes cannot be corrected at the moment. I don't think it's wise to trust transcriptions here but it's annoying if you make a mistake when submitting a tune and then have to live with it.
I am with bogman. There are monay tunes not in the library here...
That is wonderful because it gives us the chance to find the obscure ones for posterity.
Don't go counting my postings. At my stage in the learning process, the ones there are are overwhelming as it is. I post on the occasional time I trip over something and it is not there.
At the point though that I am exploring off the normal play list a bit more, so may start posting more. But one has to be careful. Since there is no revision process, probably one of my few real issues with the various resources on the Mustard Board, one has to make sure the ABC's submitted are not effed up. I know. I have some mistakes in a posted tune that I have tried cleaning up. Nada.
To Rev's very valid comment about declining quality on some of the tune postings. The enthusiasm of getting a new tune up on the board can't over-ride the need for care and precision in the transcription.
Once it is out there....it is out there for a long time..
Jamie - "NCFA (or is perhaps better as NFCA!) - yup the arrogance of youth and the ignorance of the unitiated. Regret it totally. My self promotional BS has thankfully ceased with an iota of experience; mind you so has my interest in this site: whereas playing tunes and learning them from other players is actually fun."
That may be so Mr Jamie and you can berate away all you want but while you were "wasting your time" on this website last night having a go at me I was happily sitting in the pub playing tunes with your wife!!
And there I was teaching my 14wk old son a few tunes. Engrain it in the brain early so to speak. Don't want to be playing late catch up like some people!!!
Now that is just nasty Jamie. Unlike you I realise that we are all still learning and will never be "the finished product". if such a thing even exists. Be careful in playing tunes to your son. Your intonation up on those dusty bits would be enough to put anyone off the music!
If you are wanting to lump tunes into artificial categories like "jigs" and "reels" then you are missing the true beauty of the music. Don't ask me to explain it though as it is something you can never understand.
Anyway you are wasting your time with that son of yours. Never have I seen a child more destined to be a bodhran player in my life!
Michael's bodhran maybe, or with a knife!! And while were at it my tune contributions maybe less than yours, but they've been enjoyed by twice the people. Your turn.
Arse.. no fair... ...the bairn (14wks) has a husky voice like he smokes 40 a day.... ...not looking like he'll be much interested in the tunes tonight...
Ha ha, you two can't help but argue wherever you are! Hope the wee man is enjoying his tunes Jamie, and that you have a good tune in the Ivory Alastair.
Now what was this thread about? Think you might have frightened people off!
How typical for Andy to come along and try to cause a fight! Can't two friends have a perfectly civil discussion online without you coming in and causing grief? Occasionally you should just let it lie.
Jamie - I hope you are not wanting me to translate that last post of yours for the thesession.orgeers around the world as I am afraid I don't have a clue what you mean.
Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
At the point of posting this: 10 tunes in a total of 6 recordings. 6 tunes not in any recordings One eff up, a composition, others.. ..who know!... .....but some continuing value from Ceolachan.
Time for tune submission to be more heavily moderated?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
What difference does it make if a tune's been recorded or not?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Jack Campin
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
I'm probably daft, but I can't make heads or tails out of your post. What is the problem exactly, please?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
You will have to forgive Jamie. He has been living in Dundee too long and a grasp of the English language seems to have eluded him.
I believe he is saying of 10 most recent tunes they are in a combined total of 6 albums. 6 of the tunes are not on any album at all. One of the tunes is a bad submission. Who can guess to the origin of many of the others? Ceolachan still proves his worth.
He then suggests that perhaps the tunes section should be more heavily moderated.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
For some comparison statistics Jamie has posted 17 tunes, 6 of which are his own compositions and 7 of which can not be found on any albums listed here.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Oops - minor correction. That is 5 self compositions. Sorry Jamie.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Thanks for that No Cause, I was really confused by that post and had no idea what he was talking about lol.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by pipersgrip
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
The majority of the ggod transcriptions in the tune section have been submitted by just a handful of members. Unfortunately most of these folk don't post tunes anymore - for a variety of justifiable reasons I'm sure. I still use it for reference but most tunes posted now are just rubbish.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by bogman
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Aha! I got it now!
Many new compositions...many entries not recorded on any albums...hey, do you think these items could be related?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Just having a look at my own submissions out of interest. I have submitted 23 tunes, one of which is my own. 4 of them are not on any albums although that is a little surprising seeing as one of those tunes is Donald MacLean of Lewis!!
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
By my reckoning then I am allowed to post a few more tunes of my own now! hahaha
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
I'd like to thank everyone who posts tunes. Every time I think I've come across one not on here, I eventually find it on here, which is how I've managed to keep my perfect record of 0 tunes posted alive and well.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
same! let others do the hard work..yiz legends.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
The quality of submitted tunes is declining because the wellspring of traditional ones is drying up! It's a finite resource, people, and we should start conserving until we've developed the technology for alternative sources of tuneage!
Seriously, I am wondering how many tunes people play that can't already be found in the archive... I play maybe 2 or 3, and at least one of those can be found in the comments section of another tune. So *of course* the tunes being submitted these days aren't on many recordings, and contain a lot of new compositions.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Reverend
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
I rarely post tunes anymore because I'd rather be playing them....
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Most of the common tunes are on here for sure but there are still literally thousands that are not, especially if you look just outside the Irish repertoire, there are thousands of Scottish tunes you could hear at a session that aren't on here.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by bogman
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
bogman, you mean at an Irish session in Scotland?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
......I have to say though - does the presence of crap tunes really matter? The search function is pretty straight forward.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by bogman
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Maybe Will, though there are a thousand tunes you could slip into a Donegal session and many wouldn't be any the wiser?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by bogman
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
No doubt.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
NCFA (or is perhaps better as NFCA!) - yup the arrogance of youth and the ignorance of the unitiated. Regret it totally. My self promotional BS has thankfully ceased with an iota of experience; mind you so has my interest in this site: whereas playing tunes and learning them from other players is actually fun. These days, submitted tunes here are too often gash....
....turn the tune section into a random tune selector of 10 tunes
...or turn the submission into the submission of links to mp3s and vids of the tunes instead
...or heavily moderate the tune submission
...and ravage the databse and get rid of the sh1te (including mine)
...or start posting some G&S dittys, replete with innuendo and costume suggestions - that would be an improvement?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Probably a better idea is to revisit tunes already submitted and
submit alternative or better versions in the comments section.
But this very time-consuming. Personally I'd have to either do
that or continue my daily practicing, but not both. Like Will, I'm
more interested in the playing part of it -- I have a lot of work to do.
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by Hup
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Unfortunately, too many of the new(er) members to this site don't bother to read the FAQs. Most are very enthusiastic to share tunes from their repertoire (both traditional and newly composed), but are unaware of a) how many of their tunes are already submitted (usually under a different name) and thus escape being detected as a duplicate submission, and b) not everyone on the mustard-boards gives a rat's patootie about your cat that diddled on the rug which inspired you to compose 'Cat Puke On the Carpet' (tongue firmly in cheek).
When I joined almost a year ago, I was just as eager to share some the more arcane jewels I came across in my travels; little did I know most of them were already on here in one form or another. Likewise I thought I had some great tunes to share from my own wellspring.
Thanks to Ceolachan, he pointed me to the Details tab where along with your bio one can post the Abcs to your own works that won't dillute the quality of trad tunes that get posted. (I know from experience that when you give birth to a tune, you think it's the greatest tune ever created, when in reality, most likely the next person might think it sh1te.)
By posting Abcs in your profile, mustardboardians can peruse your works without offending the more purist members who prefer trad works only to be submitted.
FWIW...
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
yea but half a bakers dozen plus two score more of tunes have been recorded but a brace of tunes plus a monkey and a hand have not . (at time of posting )
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by richrua
Seeders and leeches.
I often look for a tune here when I want to learn it. The dots are sometimes helpful. Just as often, not. But it's a nice resource all the same.
If a tune isn't here and I've learned it then I'll try to work out the abc and post the tune.
It's a lot like seeders and leeches.
I never bother to look at the newly composed tunes posted here. I still have too many of the old ones to learn -- and too many of the new ones by people like Charley Lennon, Paddy O'Brien, Paddy Fahey, Tommy Peoples, Billy McComiskey, Josie Marsh, Sean Ryan, et al.
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by David Levine
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
I don't bother looking at new compositions here either Cocus, other than tunes by well known folk.
I think the database would be greatly improved if Jeremy would get a bit of help. Maybe some experienced players like Kenny and Will for example who could maybe correct mistakes and replace poor versions with more accepted ones, putting the other versions in the comments.
The comments section is the most important for me. I recently had my laptop stolen, losing years of transcriptions from all sorts of sources. Luckily I got into the habit of posting tune versions in the comment sections here so have managed to recover quite a lot of stuff.
The main problem with the database for me is that mistakes cannot be corrected at the moment. I don't think it's wise to trust transcriptions here but it's annoying if you make a mistake when submitting a tune and then have to live with it.
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by bogman
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
I am with bogman. There are monay tunes not in the library here...
That is wonderful because it gives us the chance to find the obscure ones for posterity.
Don't go counting my postings. At my stage in the learning process, the ones there are are overwhelming as it is. I post on the occasional time I trip over something and it is not there.
At the point though that I am exploring off the normal play list a bit more, so may start posting more. But one has to be careful. Since there is no revision process, probably one of my few real issues with the various resources on the Mustard Board, one has to make sure the ABC's submitted are not effed up. I know. I have some mistakes in a posted tune that I have tried cleaning up. Nada.
To Rev's very valid comment about declining quality on some of the tune postings. The enthusiasm of getting a new tune up on the board can't over-ride the need for care and precision in the transcription.
Once it is out there....it is out there for a long time..
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by zippydw
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Jamie - "NCFA (or is perhaps better as NFCA!) - yup the arrogance of youth and the ignorance of the unitiated. Regret it totally. My self promotional BS has thankfully ceased with an iota of experience; mind you so has my interest in this site: whereas playing tunes and learning them from other players is actually fun."
That may be so Mr Jamie and you can berate away all you want but while you were "wasting your time" on this website last night having a go at me I was happily sitting in the pub playing tunes with your wife!!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
And there I was teaching my 14wk old son a few tunes. Engrain it in the brain early so to speak. Don't want to be playing late catch up like some people!!!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Like you you mean?
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
More like you!!!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Now that is just nasty Jamie. Unlike you I realise that we are all still learning and will never be "the finished product". if such a thing even exists. Be careful in playing tunes to your son. Your intonation up on those dusty bits would be enough to put anyone off the music!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Aye, but at least I can tell the difference between a jig and a reel!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
If you are wanting to lump tunes into artificial categories like "jigs" and "reels" then you are missing the true beauty of the music. Don't ask me to explain it though as it is something you can never understand.
Anyway you are wasting your time with that son of yours. Never have I seen a child more destined to be a bodhran player in my life!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Which, I suppose is the most you could ever hope for from the son of a troll!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Michael's bodhran maybe, or with a knife!! And while were at it my tune contributions maybe less than yours, but they've been enjoyed by twice the people. Your turn.
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Sorry, out of time. I am away to play tunes in Glasgow. Enjoy your evening in.
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Arse.. no fair... ...the bairn (14wks) has a husky voice like he smokes 40 a day.... ...not looking like he'll be much interested in the tunes tonight...
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Ha ha, you two can't help but argue wherever you are! Hope the wee man is enjoying his tunes Jamie, and that you have a good tune in the Ivory Alastair.
Now what was this thread about? Think you might have frightened people off!
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by Andy G
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
With all the love they were sharing, I was going to suggest the two of them get a room!
# Posted on August 14th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Yup scared them off indeed, they only seem to like their virtual session rooms like they like their sessions, like sycophantic utopian experiments!!
PS We've got a perfectly decent virtual room thank you very much for some projectile bilious vomiting and ongoing splenic excision.
# Posted on August 14th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
How typical for Andy to come along and try to cause a fight! Can't two friends have a perfectly civil discussion online without you coming in and causing grief? Occasionally you should just let it lie.
Jamie - I hope you are not wanting me to translate that last post of yours for the thesession.orgeers around the world as I am afraid I don't have a clue what you mean.
# Posted on August 14th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
Spleen and bile my boy, spleen and bile....
# Posted on August 14th 2010 by Jamie
Re: Devaluating Economy of Tune Submission
PS I don't think anything so grand as an orgee is possible on this website... ...quite the contrary!!
# Posted on August 14th 2010 by Jamie