i would start off with slow reels if you like them. the tarbolton is a good reel when played slow. as far as jigs go, the likes of the kesh jig, the blarney pilgrim and the lilting banshee are pretty easy to pick up and you will be playing them at normal speed in no time. all these tunes can be found on youtube.
Cheers - yeah, I'm familiar with the Kesh jig, its a shame that most the faster tunes I hear which I quite like (e.g. Malbay Shuffle Reel/Emmett's Hedgehog Jig/Billy First's Jig) just seem like real *bleeps* to learn haha
Yo Barry. Good man for starting the pipes. Im basically in the same position..couple of months youll be flying.. Heres my advice. Decide early on the style of piping that exites you the most. For me it was Keenan, Spillane, Mc Sherry.. Find out what is specific to their playing. Get yourself a decent slower downer peice of software. Pick the tunes apart from said Piper and spend even a month or two on one tune. Ive been on the same set for eight weeks now and im still not happy with it.. For me the discovery that i could lift the 5th and 6th finger and play "open style" coupled with being lucky enough to get some great initial lessons off the type of piper I want to play like, opened up my playing for me.. also the slower down jobber makes analysing tunes and ornaments easier..
Well my set is made from Rosewood, so its quite "sweet" sounding. I'd like to be an all-rounder really, although quite "expressive" and "emotive" if that makes sense?
The pipers I like include; Lunasa's Cillian Vallely, Spillane and Troy Donockley.
also try Tiarnan o Duinceann. Jarlath hendenson. Barry Kerr. and out of interest listen to these fellas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKcpbz94NkQ.. cracker.. never heard of troy donockley wheres he from? mite have to check him out
ah rite. im not in favour of mixing pipes and heavy metal. heard it done. dont like at. bit purist like that.. but tis good that it got you interested in the Pipes.. who made your set then? do u have a full set?
Well that Iona band is a Christian folky kinda band. And the metal band in question isn't one of these scream-voiced bands - they're former singer was a classical soprano haha
I found him through them as I'm a heavy metal musician myself - play bass guitar in a melodic heavy metal band - part of the reason I like Cillian Vallely is he's got hair almost as long as my own hehe ;)
My set was made by a guy called Jim Carroll and its just a starter set. I was previously conned into gettin a 1/2 set of those Pakistani pipes - learnt my lesson the hard way with those things
unlucky chum. If you like Cillian Vallelys playing im positive you will like all the pipers mentioned above. he does a good set with tiarnann O duinceann
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwIMtdC7Ho
decent chanter to start on makes a huge difference. learn to make reeds too if you get the chance. thats rich coming from a lazy git like myself but its somthing i want to do. Pity you arnt in Belfast, theres alot of great piping at the minute, especially for beginners\intermediate players.
Indeed - well I live in Birmingham and had to travel all the way to Nottinghamshire to get my set made - says something about how few English pipers there are. There's another fellow in Brum called Aidan O'Brien - he's played with the Dublin Philarmonic Orchestra, I think - he's agree to give me lessons, as obviously being self taught I might be developing some bad habits which could be problematic later on.
I also ordered the first 2 tuition DVD's from Na Piobairi Uilleann which have been a real help - out of the 6 tunes I can play 5 of them I learnt from that (not sure if the 6th - The Soldier's Song - actually counts as a 'tune' per se)
I'm familiar with John McSherry and quite like his piping - his slow airs particularly but he's quite good on his faster songs - IMHO sometimes woods like African Blackwood sound a little too "cutting" for slow airs (hence why I haven't gotten a set made from it) - but McSherry's set sound really nice and bright in the faster stuff and really sorrowful in the airs
sounds like yer doin grand. heres a thought, try lifting the g and f fingers while you play and see if you like what it lets you do. also try cutting with the back d instead of the g finger. nice aggressive and rythmical ornament. changes the dynamic of the tunes. especially jigs
I'm actually havin some problems with things like cutting - cutting with the C# is nice and quick but the cutting with the A is not quite quick enough yet - similar with things like rolls. Just gotta keep practicing I guess
I'm also working on slides etc
On slow airs with my chanter playing a 1st octave G with the chanter off the knee, with G, F, E and Eb fingers off the chanter and vibrato on the F hole sounds really nice and sorrowful
Have a look at Sean Potts -- he's got a few clips like this:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFsx39t0EeU
watch the way he rolls his thumb off the back D. Sounds great on those pipes.
I think The Dunmore Lassies plays nice and easy on the pipes. The melody is pretty straight forward and it only goes as high as 2nd octave G.
It was one of my first piping tunes and I still never tire of playing it.
I sometimes cringe at some of the advice given. But it's the internet where anyone can say anything like they know what the yare talking about.
Anyhow.
Cutting with the back d' is one thing most pipers would frown upon. I certainly was told when I was learning it was a habit I should get rid of tout de suite.
I am still thankful for that advice.
Start with something simple like Jimmy Ward's, if you want to start on dance music at all.
All of these things are stylistic choices you can make. There aren't any hard and fast Rules. I was also told not to cut with the back D, but it's a sound I like so I do it anyway.
No cutting with back D?! According to my books Seamus Ennis shows cutting with back D, Patsy Touhey cut with back D, Leo Rowesome shows cutting with back D, Willie Clancy cut with back D.
Who says we should ignore the advice of these pipers and refrain from using this technique?
Dunno, but I've certainly been the recipient of such advice. c.f. the conversation I had a with a piper after a session at Willie Week. I had asked him if he had any spare plumber's tape (I don't carry it as I don't like using it on the pipes... much prefer thread) to sort out a whistle head joint and got told off for my technique.
Piper: Do you play the Scottish pipes?
Me: Nope.
Piper: But did you learn on them initially?
Me: Nope. Never played them.
Piper: Well, I noticed you using a lot of back D cuts. That's not really something you should be careful of.
Uh, cheers, mate. However, I got the whistle fixed.
Ok, thats 'rubbing' That I use as a GHB player... oops stylistic faux pas Oh well .... Sure and doesnt Paddy Keenan rub the back ? Travellers you know, Live by our own rules.
Rubbing the back D is essentially (as I see it) the closest thing you can do to a roll on the back D. Cutting with the back D would be using it as a cut on an A or a B, instead of using the C sharp finger to cut those notes.
You can try the Johnny Doran way cut d' with the c finger and for the lower part l after that roll like you're rolling G. It's a subtle effect and some some chanters respond stronger to it than others.
The problem on the other hand is that the impression your piping gives, like in Malone's or the Blondes where I heard you in passing, is that of a piper clickety clicking the back note all the time. Which may not be what you want to bring across.
it's up to you to consider what you want with your piping. If you're using your back d cuts to hear yourself in a pub then you're using the device as a crutch. And a crutch that goes 'click' at every step you take. I realise that's not something you probably notice when you're at the playing end of the chanter. It certainly was my first impression of your playing. And that is not a put down and not meant, or to be taken as such.
Anything you do in your playing has an effect, it's to the piper to choose that effect. Carefully consider what you do though, why you do it and whether or not the effect is the desired one.
Jerry O'Sullivan teaches cutting A and B with the back D. I never grasped onto it for my playing. Too chirpy for my taste.
I'd rather cut A and B with C#. But Jerry frowned upon that.
He does come from a GHB background and it works with the style he has. Not my favorite, but still a fine piper in all he does. These days, I'm most fond of Liam O'Flynn's and Jimmy O'Brian Moran's piping. I haven't noticed back D cuts in their piping, But I must listen closer for to hear if they do.
It seems to be a place of disagreement and up to each piper to decide what is in their style and taste.
People who come up and cirticise you and tell you what to do and how to play are pushy and rude. They should mind their own buisness instead of throwing out unsolicited advice. It's a free world and if someone wants to cut with back D it's their own choice to make.
Thats funny, cutting with the first finger, C# in this case, would be a typical GHB ornament[G] while cutting with the thumb would be very rare in comparison, only the G [1st finger] would be cut with the thumb, occasionally.
. Cutting B and C with back D was taught by Leo Rowesome in his 1936 tutor. According to Pat Mitchel It was done by Willie Clancy on both B and C, Patsy Touhey cut B and C but also A with the back D.
So according to your experience BP, Jerry would be recommending a UP specific ornament over 'the', typical GHB ornament which is ubiquitous, the first finger cut.
Ok, Cutting C with Back D is a no brainer, certainly cutting C natural with it is and a very UP sound. Cutting B with it makes good sense. But what about cutting A with back D. That's really the note in question for me. It just seems to sound more pleasant when I cut A with C#. So now here we go, shouldn't it really boil down to what effect it is that you are really trying to convey? As Prof P has stated?
I've just followed the Na Piobairi Uilleann DVD tips on cutting;
Bottom D, E, F#, G cut with the A (although I'm still working on getting the speed right on this - you can still hear a change in note) when I do it
A, B cut the C#
C# cut with back D
Although I have also tried other cutting combos - on my chanter I found that E and F# sound quite nice when cut with C#
Rolls on the other hand are just so difficult for me - I do the first part (the cut) ok but when I 'tap' the tone holes closed, the chanter often goes into the 2nd octave. Its the main reason why I've yet to master the Hornpipe "Off to California", where I try to roll the first G
Anyone have any ideas as to why this happens? Could it be that I'm putting too much pressure on the bag? Am I 'tapping' in the wrong way?
I maintain that there are no hard and fast rules for what notes you cut with. There's standard practices based on a community and pedagogical acceptance of what "sounds good" but people can and do experiment happily with those norms.
When you tap, you should bounce your finger off the chanter. If your finger lingers on the chanter for more than a split second, it might pop octaves. Also make sure the other holes are sealed properly, as letting air squeeze out of an intended hole can make chanters squeak in all kinds of ways..
Also, if you have an incredibly light reed in your chanter, it might pop octaves even if you tap correctly, especially on Es and F sharps.
That's just my experience, which isn't as much as some of the other folk on this thread who will probably weigh in as well.
BUT on the whistle another problem with the roll could be in the timing of your cut and tap ie you should make sure your cutting finger is down before you tap. They are two seperate and distinct movements. It is common to end up blending the two into each other if you are not careful - something I still have issues with at times with top hand rolls - A and B.
Barry, in an ideal world the best thing you can do is get a teacher, rather than try to diagnose problems over the internet. An experienced piper would be able to look at your chanter and reed set up, your technique, and be far more helpful than a bunch of numpties arguing on the internet.
I see you're in Brum. I know there's a piper's club in Manchester and I imagine there are a few pipers around that part of the country. The Manchester pipers and local sessions might be able to point you in the right direction.
Silver Spear is right. It's most likely a result of both soft reed and bag pressure issue but there are ways to deal with it. One is to play an open off the knee G roll. Another is to tap the side of the G hole so as to get the effect without closing the hole.
If bag pressure is the culprit though, that's the place to start.
I spent some time this morning messing with various cuts and decided that A and B sound best being cut with C# on my chanter and to my ear anyway.
There is a piper in my area, he lives not far from my own house, he's agreed to give me lessons etc, although these are going to (for the time being) be as and when I want them as I am doing a Masters Degree and (understandibly) want to focus on that for the moment.
Someone mentioned a "light" reed in an earlier post - I do have a light reed yes. I remember the maker saying he put in a light reed and something along the lines of "a big built lad like you should have no trouble with it" haha - so it could be that
I was planning on arranging the first lesson for some point over the next couple of weeks. Thanks for all input everyone - man there's so much more to these things than guitar!! haha
"man there's so much more to these things than guitar!!"
No there's not. Never say that. Everyone should understand that guitar is the pinnacle of traditional music and all else pales in comparison to its complexity and its beauty!
haha - well maybe it just didn't seem like that to me when I learnt as I came from a house where EVERYONE played guitar - I'm the first member of my family to play Uilleann pipes ;=)
Also - getting back to the original topic - I know I mentioned Jigs and Reels but any suggestions for Hornpipes and Airs would be welcomed :=)
I'm already tackling "Off to California" as I mentioned, as well as "King of the Fairies" and I can also play the air "The South Wind"
Barry, Your reed may be in need of adjustment. It will jump the octave if it's too closed at the lips. If you feel confidant, very carefully, you might nudge the bridle up towards the lips just a slight bit to open them a tiny bit. Or better yet contact your pipemaker and have him help you address it. Learning to adjust and maintain your reed is essential to being a piper.
"I am doing a Masters Degree and (understandibly) want to focus on that for the moment."
Oh, you mean there are postgrads who are actually focused on academics? Oops. I was meant to be editing a chapter today and instead found myself hanging off a crag near Edinburgh. And tonight, it will be session'o'clock.
Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Hi
Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations for someone who's only been playing Uilleann pipes for a little under a year (teaching myself)?
I'm particularly interested in the faster tunes like jigs and reels as I've yet to learn any of these
Any suggestions/recommendations?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
i would start off with slow reels if you like them. the tarbolton is a good reel when played slow. as far as jigs go, the likes of the kesh jig, the blarney pilgrim and the lilting banshee are pretty easy to pick up and you will be playing them at normal speed in no time. all these tunes can be found on youtube.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by James Morgan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Cheers - yeah, I'm familiar with the Kesh jig, its a shame that most the faster tunes I hear which I quite like (e.g. Malbay Shuffle Reel/Emmett's Hedgehog Jig/Billy First's Jig) just seem like real *bleeps* to learn haha
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
As are they all!
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Eulic McGee
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Yo Barry. Good man for starting the pipes. Im basically in the same position..couple of months youll be flying.. Heres my advice. Decide early on the style of piping that exites you the most. For me it was Keenan, Spillane, Mc Sherry.. Find out what is specific to their playing. Get yourself a decent slower downer peice of software. Pick the tunes apart from said Piper and spend even a month or two on one tune. Ive been on the same set for eight weeks now and im still not happy with it.. For me the discovery that i could lift the 5th and 6th finger and play "open style" coupled with being lucky enough to get some great initial lessons off the type of piper I want to play like, opened up my playing for me.. also the slower down jobber makes analysing tunes and ornaments easier..
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Miss Mulligan
Well my set is made from Rosewood, so its quite "sweet" sounding. I'd like to be an all-rounder really, although quite "expressive" and "emotive" if that makes sense?
The pipers I like include; Lunasa's Cillian Vallely, Spillane and Troy Donockley.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is5DF8q25q0
this is the set ive been working on.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
also try Tiarnan o Duinceann. Jarlath hendenson. Barry Kerr. and out of interest listen to these fellas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKcpbz94NkQ.. cracker.. never heard of troy donockley wheres he from? mite have to check him out
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
who made your pipes?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Troy Donockley lives in Cumbria - he used to play with a band called Iona. He currently plays in that "Bad Sheppards" band with Ade Edmonson.
My first musical love is heavy metal and he played Uilleann pipes on my favorite metal band's 2007 album - that was where I first heard of him.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
ah rite. im not in favour of mixing pipes and heavy metal. heard it done. dont like at. bit purist like that.. but tis good that it got you interested in the Pipes.. who made your set then? do u have a full set?
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Well that Iona band is a Christian folky kinda band. And the metal band in question isn't one of these scream-voiced bands - they're former singer was a classical soprano haha
I found him through them as I'm a heavy metal musician myself - play bass guitar in a melodic heavy metal band - part of the reason I like Cillian Vallely is he's got hair almost as long as my own hehe ;)
My set was made by a guy called Jim Carroll and its just a starter set. I was previously conned into gettin a 1/2 set of those Pakistani pipes - learnt my lesson the hard way with those things
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
unlucky chum. If you like Cillian Vallelys playing im positive you will like all the pipers mentioned above. he does a good set with tiarnann O duinceann
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKwIMtdC7Ho
decent chanter to start on makes a huge difference. learn to make reeds too if you get the chance. thats rich coming from a lazy git like myself but its somthing i want to do. Pity you arnt in Belfast, theres alot of great piping at the minute, especially for beginners\intermediate players.
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
and one for da road
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blbyNHgpO8
mad notes
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Indeed - well I live in Birmingham and had to travel all the way to Nottinghamshire to get my set made - says something about how few English pipers there are. There's another fellow in Brum called Aidan O'Brien - he's played with the Dublin Philarmonic Orchestra, I think - he's agree to give me lessons, as obviously being self taught I might be developing some bad habits which could be problematic later on.
I also ordered the first 2 tuition DVD's from Na Piobairi Uilleann which have been a real help - out of the 6 tunes I can play 5 of them I learnt from that (not sure if the 6th - The Soldier's Song - actually counts as a 'tune' per se)
I'm familiar with John McSherry and quite like his piping - his slow airs particularly but he's quite good on his faster songs - IMHO sometimes woods like African Blackwood sound a little too "cutting" for slow airs (hence why I haven't gotten a set made from it) - but McSherry's set sound really nice and bright in the faster stuff and really sorrowful in the airs
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
sounds like yer doin grand. heres a thought, try lifting the g and f fingers while you play and see if you like what it lets you do. also try cutting with the back d instead of the g finger. nice aggressive and rythmical ornament. changes the dynamic of the tunes. especially jigs
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
by the way. some pipers mite tell you militantly not to lift yer fingers but dont be put off. get those mad notes on the go!
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I'm actually havin some problems with things like cutting - cutting with the C# is nice and quick but the cutting with the A is not quite quick enough yet - similar with things like rolls. Just gotta keep practicing I guess
I'm also working on slides etc
On slow airs with my chanter playing a 1st octave G with the chanter off the knee, with G, F, E and Eb fingers off the chanter and vibrato on the F hole sounds really nice and sorrowful
# Posted on August 12th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Have a look at Sean Potts -- he's got a few clips like this:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFsx39t0EeU
watch the way he rolls his thumb off the back D. Sounds great on those pipes.
# Posted on August 13th 2010 by gam
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I think The Dunmore Lassies plays nice and easy on the pipes. The melody is pretty straight forward and it only goes as high as 2nd octave G.
It was one of my first piping tunes and I still never tire of playing it.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I sometimes cringe at some of the advice given. But it's the internet where anyone can say anything like they know what the yare talking about.
Anyhow.
Cutting with the back d' is one thing most pipers would frown upon. I certainly was told when I was learning it was a habit I should get rid of tout de suite.
I am still thankful for that advice.
Start with something simple like Jimmy Ward's, if you want to start on dance music at all.
Look up the tutor videos on the NPU site.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
All of these things are stylistic choices you can make. There aren't any hard and fast Rules. I was also told not to cut with the back D, but it's a sound I like so I do it anyway.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
No cutting with back D?! According to my books Seamus Ennis shows cutting with back D, Patsy Touhey cut with back D, Leo Rowesome shows cutting with back D, Willie Clancy cut with back D.
Who says we should ignore the advice of these pipers and refrain from using this technique?
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Hang on, do you mean 'rubbing' with back D? ie triplets on back D ?
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Dunno, but I've certainly been the recipient of such advice. c.f. the conversation I had a with a piper after a session at Willie Week. I had asked him if he had any spare plumber's tape (I don't carry it as I don't like using it on the pipes... much prefer thread) to sort out a whistle head joint and got told off for my technique.
Piper: Do you play the Scottish pipes?
Me: Nope.
Piper: But did you learn on them initially?
Me: Nope. Never played them.
Piper: Well, I noticed you using a lot of back D cuts. That's not really something you should be careful of.
Uh, cheers, mate. However, I got the whistle fixed.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Sorry... his comment was more like... "That's really something you should be careful of..."
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Ok, thats 'rubbing' That I use as a GHB player...
oops stylistic faux pas Oh well .... Sure and doesnt Paddy Keenan rub the back ? Travellers you know, Live by our own rules. 
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Rubbing the back D is essentially (as I see it) the closest thing you can do to a roll on the back D. Cutting with the back D would be using it as a cut on an A or a B, instead of using the C sharp finger to cut those notes.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I think cutting with back D all the time rapidly becomes monotonous and looses it's impact.
It's fine for c, which is what Ennis indicated in his tutor. Any other use should be for special effect only, the way Ennis or Clancy used it.
Yes Emily I too noticed your back D cutting habit. It stands out quite a bit. You should be careful with that.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
You can try the Johnny Doran way cut d' with the c finger and for the lower part l after that roll like you're rolling G. It's a subtle effect and some some chanters respond stronger to it than others.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
It's handy though for hearing yourself in loud pubs and I like the kind of aggressive edge it gives the note.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Or maybe "sharp" or "biting" edge are better adjectives....
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
The problem on the other hand is that the impression your piping gives, like in Malone's or the Blondes where I heard you in passing, is that of a piper clickety clicking the back note all the time. Which may not be what you want to bring across.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
That's me told.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
No, don't take it that way.
it's up to you to consider what you want with your piping. If you're using your back d cuts to hear yourself in a pub then you're using the device as a crutch. And a crutch that goes 'click' at every step you take. I realise that's not something you probably notice when you're at the playing end of the chanter. It certainly was my first impression of your playing. And that is not a put down and not meant, or to be taken as such.
Anything you do in your playing has an effect, it's to the piper to choose that effect. Carefully consider what you do though, why you do it and whether or not the effect is the desired one.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I'm much more amenable to advice about my playing when it's done via email than on the public message board.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Well, sorry, I responded after you brought it up as a feature of your own playing.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Jerry O'Sullivan teaches cutting A and B with the back D. I never grasped onto it for my playing. Too chirpy for my taste.
I'd rather cut A and B with C#. But Jerry frowned upon that.
He does come from a GHB background and it works with the style he has. Not my favorite, but still a fine piper in all he does. These days, I'm most fond of Liam O'Flynn's and Jimmy O'Brian Moran's piping. I haven't noticed back D cuts in their piping, But I must listen closer for to hear if they do.
It seems to be a place of disagreement and up to each piper to decide what is in their style and taste.
People who come up and cirticise you and tell you what to do and how to play are pushy and rude. They should mind their own buisness instead of throwing out unsolicited advice. It's a free world and if someone wants to cut with back D it's their own choice to make.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Thats funny, cutting with the first finger, C# in this case, would be a typical GHB ornament[G] while cutting with the thumb would be very rare in comparison, only the G [1st finger] would be cut with the thumb, occasionally.
. Cutting B and C with back D was taught by Leo Rowesome in his 1936 tutor. According to Pat Mitchel It was done by Willie Clancy on both B and C, Patsy Touhey cut B and C but also A with the back D.
So according to your experience BP, Jerry would be recommending a UP specific ornament over 'the', typical GHB ornament which is ubiquitous, the first finger cut.
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Ok, Cutting C with Back D is a no brainer, certainly cutting C natural with it is and a very UP sound. Cutting B with it makes good sense. But what about cutting A with back D. That's really the note in question for me. It just seems to sound more pleasant when I cut A with C#. So now here we go, shouldn't it really boil down to what effect it is that you are really trying to convey? As Prof P has stated?
# Posted on August 16th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I've just followed the Na Piobairi Uilleann DVD tips on cutting;
Bottom D, E, F#, G cut with the A (although I'm still working on getting the speed right on this - you can still hear a change in note) when I do it
A, B cut the C#
C# cut with back D
Although I have also tried other cutting combos - on my chanter I found that E and F# sound quite nice when cut with C#
Rolls on the other hand are just so difficult for me - I do the first part (the cut) ok but when I 'tap' the tone holes closed, the chanter often goes into the 2nd octave. Its the main reason why I've yet to master the Hornpipe "Off to California", where I try to roll the first G
Anyone have any ideas as to why this happens? Could it be that I'm putting too much pressure on the bag? Am I 'tapping' in the wrong way?
# Posted on August 17th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I maintain that there are no hard and fast rules for what notes you cut with. There's standard practices based on a community and pedagogical acceptance of what "sounds good" but people can and do experiment happily with those norms.
When you tap, you should bounce your finger off the chanter. If your finger lingers on the chanter for more than a split second, it might pop octaves. Also make sure the other holes are sealed properly, as letting air squeeze out of an intended hole can make chanters squeak in all kinds of ways..
Also, if you have an incredibly light reed in your chanter, it might pop octaves even if you tap correctly, especially on Es and F sharps.
That's just my experience, which isn't as much as some of the other folk on this thread who will probably weigh in as well.
# Posted on August 17th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
*unintended hole
Rereading that post, it occurs to me I should be writing for Playboy rather than academia.
# Posted on August 17th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
**Remember I don't play the pipes**
BUT on the whistle another problem with the roll could be in the timing of your cut and tap ie you should make sure your cutting finger is down before you tap. They are two seperate and distinct movements. It is common to end up blending the two into each other if you are not careful - something I still have issues with at times with top hand rolls - A and B.
Could this also be an issue on the pipes?
# Posted on August 17th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Could be... It might squeak if the cut is interfering with the tap or if you're not fully closing the hole after the cut.
# Posted on August 17th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Barry, in an ideal world the best thing you can do is get a teacher, rather than try to diagnose problems over the internet. An experienced piper would be able to look at your chanter and reed set up, your technique, and be far more helpful than a bunch of numpties arguing on the internet.
I see you're in Brum. I know there's a piper's club in Manchester and I imagine there are a few pipers around that part of the country. The Manchester pipers and local sessions might be able to point you in the right direction.
# Posted on August 17th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Silver Spear is right. It's most likely a result of both soft reed and bag pressure issue but there are ways to deal with it. One is to play an open off the knee G roll. Another is to tap the side of the G hole so as to get the effect without closing the hole.
If bag pressure is the culprit though, that's the place to start.
I spent some time this morning messing with various cuts and decided that A and B sound best being cut with C# on my chanter and to my ear anyway.
# Posted on August 17th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Silver Spear
There is a piper in my area, he lives not far from my own house, he's agreed to give me lessons etc, although these are going to (for the time being) be as and when I want them as I am doing a Masters Degree and (understandibly) want to focus on that for the moment.
Someone mentioned a "light" reed in an earlier post - I do have a light reed yes. I remember the maker saying he put in a light reed and something along the lines of "a big built lad like you should have no trouble with it" haha - so it could be that
I was planning on arranging the first lesson for some point over the next couple of weeks. Thanks for all input everyone - man there's so much more to these things than guitar!! haha
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
"man there's so much more to these things than guitar!!"
No there's not. Never say that. Everyone should understand that guitar is the pinnacle of traditional music and all else pales in comparison to its complexity and its beauty!
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
haha - well maybe it just didn't seem like that to me when I learnt as I came from a house where EVERYONE played guitar - I'm the first member of my family to play Uilleann pipes ;=)
Also - getting back to the original topic - I know I mentioned Jigs and Reels but any suggestions for Hornpipes and Airs would be welcomed :=)
I'm already tackling "Off to California" as I mentioned, as well as "King of the Fairies" and I can also play the air "The South Wind"
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by BarryK
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
I recently learnt Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine on the whistle and found that quite an easy hornpipe to tackle.
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
Barry, Your reed may be in need of adjustment. It will jump the octave if it's too closed at the lips. If you feel confidant, very carefully, you might nudge the bridle up towards the lips just a slight bit to open them a tiny bit. Or better yet contact your pipemaker and have him help you address it. Learning to adjust and maintain your reed is essential to being a piper.
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Beginning tunes for Uilleann pipes
"I am doing a Masters Degree and (understandibly) want to focus on that for the moment."
Oh, you mean there are postgrads who are actually focused on academics? Oops. I was meant to be editing a chapter today and instead found myself hanging off a crag near Edinburgh. And tonight, it will be session'o'clock.
# Posted on August 18th 2010 by DrSilverSpear