I must say I actually I'm quite tempted to indulge in some of this kit!
BUT FEAR NOT ALL AT THE KILKENNY NOT FOR SESSIONS! For my other dubious musical excursions!
As for the old traditional Irish session foot stamping: I hate it!
I'd like to have some carpet sample squares at hand to put under the feet of those who do the dreadful floorboard bashing. I hate if, say , a whistle player starts a tune/ set and apparently in order to rustle up some interest in joining in, they bosh! bosh! bosh! four to the floor with their blooming foot, louder than the tune in the first place. I don't know if it's done by those who do it in order to try a keep you in time (in which case I say, 'Thank you but I can stay in time by listening to the tune actually!') or if it's done uncontrollably and unconciously (in which case I say, 'Get a grip and stop it!') or if it's some misplaced and slightly pathetically enthusiastic, faintly patronizing, cheerleading or flag waving.
Is it part of the tradition? Or is it a blinking annoying twitch? Or people trying to get themselves noticed?
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Ah, you're a good egg yhaal. What is this strange thing called listening you speak of?
The only time I bang on the floor is when there's some non-listening eejit off the beat and refusing to listen. Using the floor keeps me from using his or her head.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
SWFL: Would that ever be a good 'shaky' egg?
We hope not (unless it's the shaky egg attachment of the footdrum gizmo dangerously exposed and promoted in the OP!).
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Ouch...stop picking on whistle players. As a matter of fact, my whistle teacher stands on my feet to keep me from tapping them. He is of the opinion that you should be able to keep time in your head.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
If the pub is carpeted, just stamp REALLY REALLY hard. Simple.
y: " I don't know if it's done by those who do it in order to try a keep you in time (in which case I say, 'Thank you but I can stay in time by listening to the tune actually!')"
You may indeed, but so many can't. In a large session, if the leader doesn't have big boots and use them hard, there will be chaos.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Sorry Yhaal, but I hear foot tapping most places I've been where trad is played in Ireland. Not foot stamping, mind you. So yes, I think it is part of the 'tradition'
Carpeted pubs?? Yuck, that's not a pub .. not even a lounge bar. What do they do when patrons puke up?
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I have a friend who teaches chair bound old folks in residential home to move their feet to music. The lady who tries to keep their fingers moving has them sewing buttons onto old socks so that they make tappy noises when they dance their feet.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Foot tapping is one of those things that is generlaly looked very down upon in the classically trained musician's world. Even in small chamber groups, even if it happens more than some would like to admit.
Most of the trad music being dance music, I think foot tapping is fine. As long as someone isn't stomping or horribly off time there really should be no issue. In fact I think stepdancers in a way can provide a "rhythym section" that is just as part of the music as the players and instruments.
Then again, lately I've been utilizing "foot time" a lot lately. Not to tell other people my timing, but to get myself into the rythym and feel for the music. Another thing I do is sway, which may or may not be a better alternative for some people.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I wear a pair of stout hobnailed clodhoppers to the local session and I stomp as hard as possible. I have to as my pipes are extremely loud and I can't keep time otherwise.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
@ the wounded hussar -- I was in one pub where my feet were sticking to the floor. As the landlord came past to get the glasses I said that his lino might be in need of a bit of a clean. He looked at me all offended and said, 'That's not lino, it's carpet.'
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Steamwilkes: unless you are 'aving a larf, you sound like a nightmare session wrecker and seemingly better at it than I am.
gam: ah! now you're talking! That's proper pub carpet! It goes hand in hand with proper outside gents with a gutter all round the floor and a corugated tin roof.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I occasionally play in a pub with carpets. It's tough to keep time as I can't hear my foot tapping but I bet it's even harder to clean puke off the floor.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Why would someone listen to their foot to keep time? Doesn't the brain send the signal to the foot in the first place? Then the message goes to your ears/body and then back to the brain?
That said, I found myself tapping quite a bit last night, not for timing, but just feeling the music throughout my body.
As a classical musician, nope, no tapping. Drives me nuts.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I find it helps even if I can't hear it, but maybe more if I can. I think part of it is that, because fingers are more nibble than legs, its easier to play in time with a foot than stomp in time with erratic fingers.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I think foot-tapping is a kind of minimalist dancing, and as such helps you to get into the tune. I can't see how it could keep you in time, though, because you are the person keeping the foot in time -- or not, as the case may be -- but the dancing aspect seems to work, even if your foot is silently tapping inside your shoe. If you watch beginners, their feet are all over the place; so it seems it doesn't come naturally. My tutor stopped me tapping my foot as a child, so I'm having great fun at the moment trying to learn how to do it.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
And there are the varieties of foot-tapping: -
one tap per bar - which if it comes down to it is all that's really needed.
One tap per beat - the connoisseur will readily demonstrate the difference between tunes that have two beats in the bar and those that have four, even though both have eight eighth notes (quavers) in the bar, and will also be pleased to demonstrate that a slide has four beats to the bar.
One tap per note played - a sight to behold when a reel or slide is moving along very nicely thank you at 120 plus.
The virtuoso (I think we all know of an eminent example) who taps with both feet but with a different tap pattern for each foot. If you ask respectfully, perhaps with a suitable liquid offering, you might get a virtuoso rendering of 4 against 3 or even 5 against 4. Actually, any professional standard drummer should be able to do that without thinking about it.
The chaotic - no definition is necessary. We've all experienced it, not just from beginners, who can be readily forgiven, but from those who have been around long enough to know better.
I must declare my interest - a classical background where foot-tapping (the visible and audible variety at any rate) is well frowned upon, although I was at a concert once where the conductor loudly stamped his foot on the rostrum in an attempt to rein in an errant piano soloist who was evidently neither listening to the orchestra or looking at the conductor. I'm sorry, but I still can't really do it in a session - after a couple of bars my foot stops of its own accord.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
"Steamwilkes: unless you are 'aving a larf, you sound like a nightmare session wrecker and seemingly better at it than I am." yhaalhouse
I'm deadly serious. I can spend up to an hour shining my clodhoppers before a session. If I don't know the tune, then I'll just stomp anyway. Sometimes I've left the pipes at home and just sat in a session and stomped like a demented jackhammer. I do get some funny looks, but what the heck...
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
"varieties of foot-tapping": I can tap in time, and I can stamp in time if there's a lot of background noise and one end of the table has gone out of synch with the other end because of the sheer racket being created by the punters. My other style of foot-tapping is a bad thing - a kind of restless leg syndrome completely out of synch with anything. I've been scolded for this at a "serious" session (wooden floors): "Do we really have to put up with your foot-tapping all night?" (another life-long enemy identified). I'll have to start carrying my own roll of carpet around with me along with all the other session clutter.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Here are some random examples of single and double foot-tapping. The women appear to be more guilty than the men, or perhaps it is just that their feet are more visible.
As big_tab has pointed out elsewhere, of course, ceili bands have no rhythm anyway, in spite of having drums and piano to keep them in line.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Yo, up New Jersey dawg. Old Bay, clip 4 there. Betcha they had to call the carpenters after that set. Homegirl nearly knocked the nails out of the stage on the tune change.
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Ah! Stompin' Tom. Canadian foot stomping is integral to the tradition, especially Quebecois trad music, where podorhythmie, or "feet" are an integral part of the percussion section.
Pro players who also play feet bring their own boards with a groove at the back or a sheet of rubber attached to the back to keep the percussive board from sliding around. I've seen boards with spaces underneath routed out to create more resonance. The optimal sound should be like the plank floorboards of a farmhouse kitchen (or up on the kitchen table, depending on where you put the fiddler).
The foot pattern is used to signal changes between tunes, as well as to keep the whole group together in some of the more delicious parts of the crooked tunes.
In groups/sessions where more than one person is an accomplished foot tapper, only one usually taps at a time (in the same way that multiple guitars/bodhrans can lead to chaos) quite clearly setting the tempo for all.
Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
http://www.footdrums.com/
Click on the DownBeat video. Which one should I get, do you think? I like the cowbell, but it might be in the wrong key.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by gam
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Looks like fun. I like the all-in-one multi thing...the Foot Drum Deluxe. That could be a blast...
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Mark Harmer
Eradicate Foot-tapping forever...
I must say I actually I'm quite tempted to indulge in some of this kit!
BUT FEAR NOT ALL AT THE KILKENNY NOT FOR SESSIONS! For my other dubious musical excursions!
As for the old traditional Irish session foot stamping: I hate it!
I'd like to have some carpet sample squares at hand to put under the feet of those who do the dreadful floorboard bashing. I hate if, say , a whistle player starts a tune/ set and apparently in order to rustle up some interest in joining in, they bosh! bosh! bosh! four to the floor with their blooming foot, louder than the tune in the first place. I don't know if it's done by those who do it in order to try a keep you in time (in which case I say, 'Thank you but I can stay in time by listening to the tune actually!') or if it's done uncontrollably and unconciously (in which case I say, 'Get a grip and stop it!') or if it's some misplaced and slightly pathetically enthusiastic, faintly patronizing, cheerleading or flag waving.
Is it part of the tradition? Or is it a blinking annoying twitch? Or people trying to get themselves noticed?
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by yhaalhouse
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Ah, you're a good egg yhaal. What is this strange thing called listening you speak of?
The only time I bang on the floor is when there's some non-listening eejit off the beat and refusing to listen. Using the floor keeps me from using his or her head.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
SWFL: Would that ever be a good 'shaky' egg?
We hope not (unless it's the shaky egg attachment of the footdrum gizmo dangerously exposed and promoted in the OP!).
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by yhaalhouse
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Are you shaky? You should switch to decaf!
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Ouch...stop picking on whistle players. As a matter of fact, my whistle teacher stands on my feet to keep me from tapping them. He is of the opinion that you should be able to keep time in your head.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by whistler gan ainm
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Good teacher!
Seriously though. My mates know when something's wrong because you can hear me tapping my foot.
One time a guitarist told me after the set was over that I had stopped stomping the beat out halfway through.
"Yes, because you finally got the rhythm."
"But I was following your foot!"
Sigh.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Generally speaking I manage to keep the time in my head but when playing sometimes I get so nervous the foot tapping just happens!!
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by An Kammneves
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
If the pub is carpeted, just stamp REALLY REALLY hard. Simple.
y: " I don't know if it's done by those who do it in order to try a keep you in time (in which case I say, 'Thank you but I can stay in time by listening to the tune actually!')"
You may indeed, but so many can't. In a large session, if the leader doesn't have big boots and use them hard, there will be chaos.
OK, there will still be chaos. But there is hope.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by Alex Wilding
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Sorry Yhaal, but I hear foot tapping most places I've been where trad is played in Ireland. Not foot stamping, mind you. So yes, I think it is part of the 'tradition'
Carpeted pubs?? Yuck, that's not a pub .. not even a lounge bar. What do they do when patrons puke up?
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by the wounded hussar
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I tap because it helps me stay in time. There, I said it. I've had to play when unable to tap and I can still stay in time but it's harder.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Isn't it one of those 'bird brain' things, getting the neurons in synch and all that. There was a discussion about it.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by David50
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
get some morris bells
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by geoffwright
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I have a friend who teaches chair bound old folks in residential home to move their feet to music. The lady who tries to keep their fingers moving has them sewing buttons onto old socks so that they make tappy noises when they dance their feet.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by David50
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Foot tapping is one of those things that is generlaly looked very down upon in the classically trained musician's world. Even in small chamber groups, even if it happens more than some would like to admit.
Most of the trad music being dance music, I think foot tapping is fine. As long as someone isn't stomping or horribly off time there really should be no issue. In fact I think stepdancers in a way can provide a "rhythym section" that is just as part of the music as the players and instruments.
Then again, lately I've been utilizing "foot time" a lot lately. Not to tell other people my timing, but to get myself into the rythym and feel for the music. Another thing I do is sway, which may or may not be a better alternative for some people.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by banshee misfortune
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I wear a pair of stout hobnailed clodhoppers to the local session and I stomp as hard as possible. I have to as my pipes are extremely loud and I can't keep time otherwise.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by Steamwilkes
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
@ the wounded hussar -- I was in one pub where my feet were sticking to the floor. As the landlord came past to get the glasses I said that his lino might be in need of a bit of a clean. He looked at me all offended and said, 'That's not lino, it's carpet.'
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by gam
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I just bought two of them for our session.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by pipersgrip
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Steamwilkes: unless you are 'aving a larf, you sound like a nightmare session wrecker and seemingly better at it than I am.
gam: ah! now you're talking! That's proper pub carpet! It goes hand in hand with proper outside gents with a gutter all round the floor and a corugated tin roof.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by yhaalhouse
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I occasionally play in a pub with carpets. It's tough to keep time as I can't hear my foot tapping but I bet it's even harder to clean puke off the floor.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Why would someone listen to their foot to keep time? Doesn't the brain send the signal to the foot in the first place? Then the message goes to your ears/body and then back to the brain?
That said, I found myself tapping quite a bit last night, not for timing, but just feeling the music throughout my body.
As a classical musician, nope, no tapping. Drives me nuts.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by Wyogal
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I don't know the neurology of it. Maybe it's like a focus thing. It works anyway.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I find it helps even if I can't hear it, but maybe more if I can. I think part of it is that, because fingers are more nibble than legs, its easier to play in time with a foot than stomp in time with erratic fingers.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by David50
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
I think foot-tapping is a kind of minimalist dancing, and as such helps you to get into the tune. I can't see how it could keep you in time, though, because you are the person keeping the foot in time -- or not, as the case may be -- but the dancing aspect seems to work, even if your foot is silently tapping inside your shoe. If you watch beginners, their feet are all over the place; so it seems it doesn't come naturally. My tutor stopped me tapping my foot as a child, so I'm having great fun at the moment trying to learn how to do it.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by gam
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
And there are the varieties of foot-tapping: -
one tap per bar - which if it comes down to it is all that's really needed.
One tap per beat - the connoisseur will readily demonstrate the difference between tunes that have two beats in the bar and those that have four, even though both have eight eighth notes (quavers) in the bar, and will also be pleased to demonstrate that a slide has four beats to the bar.
One tap per note played - a sight to behold when a reel or slide is moving along very nicely thank you at 120 plus.
The virtuoso (I think we all know of an eminent example) who taps with both feet but with a different tap pattern for each foot. If you ask respectfully, perhaps with a suitable liquid offering, you might get a virtuoso rendering of 4 against 3 or even 5 against 4. Actually, any professional standard drummer should be able to do that without thinking about it.
The chaotic - no definition is necessary. We've all experienced it, not just from beginners, who can be readily forgiven, but from those who have been around long enough to know better.
I must declare my interest - a classical background where foot-tapping (the visible and audible variety at any rate) is well frowned upon, although I was at a concert once where the conductor loudly stamped his foot on the rostrum in an attempt to rein in an errant piano soloist who was evidently neither listening to the orchestra or looking at the conductor. I'm sorry, but I still can't really do it in a session - after a couple of bars my foot stops of its own accord.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Fine Foot Tapping Analysis
See above.
# Posted on August 5th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
"Steamwilkes: unless you are 'aving a larf, you sound like a nightmare session wrecker and seemingly better at it than I am." yhaalhouse
I'm deadly serious. I can spend up to an hour shining my clodhoppers before a session. If I don't know the tune, then I'll just stomp anyway. Sometimes I've left the pipes at home and just sat in a session and stomped like a demented jackhammer. I do get some funny looks, but what the heck...
# Posted on August 6th 2010 by Steamwilkes
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
"varieties of foot-tapping": I can tap in time, and I can stamp in time if there's a lot of background noise and one end of the table has gone out of synch with the other end because of the sheer racket being created by the punters. My other style of foot-tapping is a bad thing - a kind of restless leg syndrome completely out of synch with anything. I've been scolded for this at a "serious" session (wooden floors): "Do we really have to put up with your foot-tapping all night?" (another life-long enemy identified). I'll have to start carrying my own roll of carpet around with me along with all the other session clutter.
# Posted on August 6th 2010 by RichardB
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Here are some random examples of single and double foot-tapping. The women appear to be more guilty than the men, or perhaps it is just that their feet are more visible.
As big_tab has pointed out elsewhere, of course, ceili bands have no rhythm anyway, in spite of having drums and piano to keep them in line.
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_314_8_the_shannonvale_ceili_band/
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_311_6_the_bridge_ceili_band/
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_311_5_the_dartry_ceili_band/
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_308_8_the_old_bay_ceili_band_jigs/
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_308_7_the_triogue_ceili_band_hornpipe/
# Posted on August 6th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Yo, up New Jersey dawg. Old Bay, clip 4 there. Betcha they had to call the carpenters after that set. Homegirl nearly knocked the nails out of the stage on the tune change.
# Posted on August 6th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Yep, looks like Rosie is running the show.
# Posted on August 6th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
And some people become famous for their foot-tapping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDPSGLLNM6w&feature=related
# Posted on August 7th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: Foot-tapping in carpeted pubs -- the solution.
Ah! Stompin' Tom. Canadian foot stomping is integral to the tradition, especially Quebecois trad music, where podorhythmie, or "feet" are an integral part of the percussion section.
Andre Brunet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aZ7q53pUnI&feature=related
Pro players who also play feet bring their own boards with a groove at the back or a sheet of rubber attached to the back to keep the percussive board from sliding around. I've seen boards with spaces underneath routed out to create more resonance. The optimal sound should be like the plank floorboards of a farmhouse kitchen (or up on the kitchen table, depending on where you put the fiddler).
The foot pattern is used to signal changes between tunes, as well as to keep the whole group together in some of the more delicious parts of the crooked tunes.
In groups/sessions where more than one person is an accomplished foot tapper, only one usually taps at a time (in the same way that multiple guitars/bodhrans can lead to chaos) quite clearly setting the tempo for all.
# Posted on September 2nd 2010 by HipCzeck