Right, they have fiddles worth £2,400,000, are we supposed to feel sorry for them? I personally have never had any problems with Ryanair, cheap and punctual, unlike some.
No, you're supposed to feel sorry for them because if they lose the case everyone will get charged for a seat for a violin or fiddle. Given what some folks stuff into the overheads that is really ridiculous.
Ryanair spokesman Stephen McNamara said: 'The policy has been the same for two years and the terms and conditions clearly explain that musical instruments need to have a second seat.
'It is the responsibility of individual passengers to research the conditions before they book their flights.
'There can be no allowances made for anyone, whether its the next superstar in cricket, tennis or music. The terms and conditions are the same for everyone.'
but there is some stupid rules with all airlines. when i come home from america fishing rods had to be checked in, and ours were travel rods in 2ft cases. a set of skiis up to 8ft is allowed as hand luggage. u cud stick a ski through the pilots head. the worst u could do with a fishing rod is tickle him.
"they have fiddles worth £2,400,000, are we supposed to feel sorry for them?"
The musicians who play instruments like that usually don't own them. After all, they are musicians. Normally instruments like that are owned by collectors or public institutions, who then loan them out to top musicians.
strayaway, those musicians probably don't own those instruments. Fine violins made like those made by Amati and Stradivari are owned by very wealthy people and organizations and loaned out to musicians. They are NOT generally owned by the musicians themselves.
Yeah, I know. Still a ridiculous amount of money for a fiddle. FFS, you could get a couple of dozen vintage 50's strats for that and play some real music.
I believe they were traveling to England for a charity concert (not that Ryanair would be the slightest bit concerned about that) which perhaps explains why they were on a budget flight. The charity organisers are reluctantly paying for the cost of the seats for the instruments, which is going to make massive inroads into the concert's profits for the charity. The two younger musicians are likely nowhere yet near their top earning levels and are most probably working damn hard to make a living. It must also be worrying looking after and traveling with a very valuable instrument that is on loan, rather than one that is your personal property.
The institutions that loan out instruments to the best players include top music colleges, civic authorities in big cities, especially those with a top pro orchestra, top pro orchestras themselves, and perhaps the State itself (if you live in Russia). The sad thing is that within the last century it was possible for someone at perhaps middle management salary level, or even lower, to buy a top instrument, just as someone like that would buy a reasonably upmarket family car today. Don't forget that every violin maker who ever lived made instruments for people to buy, otherwise they wouldn't be in business for very long.
Back in the '50s, when walking home from school I'd pass an old established violin shop (it's still there in Bristol, and now called Cremona House) and for a few weeks it had for sale in the window an Amati cello for £400. To put it in perspective, £400 then would have been about the annual salary of an office clerk, and would have been affordable by an established professional musician (who would have made damn sure he could afford it!). Such an instrument today would be on the market for well into 6 figures, or even 7 - well beyond the reach of a working musician.
Lazyhound, that cello would have made a nice investment. But instruments like that are valuable mainly because of their collector's value, rather than their value as instruments.
There's a large supply of good violins out there made by great luthiers , and the price really depends more on how famous the maker is than the actual sound of the instrument. For five figures--about what the 400 pounds was back then--you can get pretty much a top-notch violin. And you can get a professional-level violin for about the price of a good accordion. Things really haven't changed that much.
The good news is that today there are luthiers around who are making violins that will surely be the Stradivaris and Guarneris of tomorrow, and at a price affordable by an individual.
Marklar, we cross-posted, and are singing more or less from the same song sheet. I've wondered sometimes who bought that cello. A few years later I met an amateur cellist in Bristol Uni Orchestra - he was a lecturer at the Uni - who played an Amati, but it wasn't him, he'd had his Amati rather longer.
Back in those days it wasn't uncommon to find amateur as well as professional musicians playing old instruments that today would be completely beyond their reach financially.
"Ryanair spokesman Stephen McNamara said: 'The policy has been the same for two years and the terms and conditions clearly explain that musical instruments need to have a second seat.'"
So Ryanair I suppose flutes and whistles require a second seat. What about clarinets? Or concertinas? That rule is incomplete and stupid and they need to be told.
The stupidist thing I've heard since I was denied compensation for a ding on my hammered dulcimer because "we don't pay for damage to financial instruments." OK the person was not speaking her native language, but really...
Flutes and whistles don't require a second seat. Only things that are too big to fit in hand luggage 55cms by 40cms by 20cms will require a second seat.
(I'm always happy to buy a seat for an instrument on UK-Ireland flights - it is nearly always cheaper than paying the extortionate charge to check in a bag.)
When I looked recently (uk to Dublin) I was qouted £40 each way for an instrument if it went in the baggage hold uninsured. Maybe you could do it cheaper if you somehow put the flight case inside a very large holdall and called it 'baggage'. And then there's the £30 each per bag for the clothes etc, I think its the end of cheap flights for musicians
Also, to avoid the "handling fee" (or whatever it's called) of £5 per person per flight, use a prepaid Mastercard debit card, which does not incur the fee.
This saves me £20 on each return trip, as I book two seats.
Ryanair offer to play a game with you. Play the game right and you get where you want to go at very low cost. Play it wrong and they win by getting you to pay more. You don't have to play the game so don't whinge when you lose
I wonder if this trio of musicians bothered with travel insurance? I'm guessing they did.
Love to see how much their travel insurance excess is after filling in the value of the instrument they're travelling with.
Ryanair at it again!
Ryanair at it again!
warning for all musicians intending upon flying with ryanair with your instruments!
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/ryanair-charges-musicians-pound1340-for-violins-2281945.html
# Posted on August 3rd 2010 by irishtradguy
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Yep. I have to say, I don't think the customers have got a chance in the court case mind.
# Posted on August 3rd 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Right, they have fiddles worth £2,400,000, are we supposed to feel sorry for them? I personally have never had any problems with Ryanair, cheap and punctual, unlike some.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Ryanair at it again!
No, you're supposed to feel sorry for them because if they lose the case everyone will get charged for a seat for a violin or fiddle. Given what some folks stuff into the overheads that is really ridiculous.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by cboody
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Ryanair spokesman Stephen McNamara said: 'The policy has been the same for two years and the terms and conditions clearly explain that musical instruments need to have a second seat.
'It is the responsibility of individual passengers to research the conditions before they book their flights.
'There can be no allowances made for anyone, whether its the next superstar in cricket, tennis or music. The terms and conditions are the same for everyone.'
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Ryanair at it again!
You get what you pay for. If you want "free" inclusions you don't fly with low-cost carriers. Why three seats - couldn't three violins share one seat?
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by All Moldy
Re: Ryanair at it again!
but there is some stupid rules with all airlines. when i come home from america fishing rods had to be checked in, and ours were travel rods in 2ft cases. a set of skiis up to 8ft is allowed as hand luggage. u cud stick a ski through the pilots head. the worst u could do with a fishing rod is tickle him.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by James Morgan
Re: Ryanair at it again!
"they have fiddles worth £2,400,000, are we supposed to feel sorry for them?"
The musicians who play instruments like that usually don't own them. After all, they are musicians. Normally instruments like that are owned by collectors or public institutions, who then loan them out to top musicians.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Marklar
Re: Ryanair at it again!
strayaway, those musicians probably don't own those instruments. Fine violins made like those made by Amati and Stradivari are owned by very wealthy people and organizations and loaned out to musicians. They are NOT generally owned by the musicians themselves.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by mcdevincabe
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Yeah, I know. Still a ridiculous amount of money for a fiddle. FFS, you could get a couple of dozen vintage 50's strats for that and play some real music.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by strayaway
Re: Ryanair at it again!
I believe they were traveling to England for a charity concert (not that Ryanair would be the slightest bit concerned about that) which perhaps explains why they were on a budget flight. The charity organisers are reluctantly paying for the cost of the seats for the instruments, which is going to make massive inroads into the concert's profits for the charity. The two younger musicians are likely nowhere yet near their top earning levels and are most probably working damn hard to make a living. It must also be worrying looking after and traveling with a very valuable instrument that is on loan, rather than one that is your personal property.
The institutions that loan out instruments to the best players include top music colleges, civic authorities in big cities, especially those with a top pro orchestra, top pro orchestras themselves, and perhaps the State itself (if you live in Russia). The sad thing is that within the last century it was possible for someone at perhaps middle management salary level, or even lower, to buy a top instrument, just as someone like that would buy a reasonably upmarket family car today. Don't forget that every violin maker who ever lived made instruments for people to buy, otherwise they wouldn't be in business for very long.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Back in the '50s, when walking home from school I'd pass an old established violin shop (it's still there in Bristol, and now called Cremona House) and for a few weeks it had for sale in the window an Amati cello for £400. To put it in perspective, £400 then would have been about the annual salary of an office clerk, and would have been affordable by an established professional musician (who would have made damn sure he could afford it!). Such an instrument today would be on the market for well into 6 figures, or even 7 - well beyond the reach of a working musician.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Lazyhound, that cello would have made a nice investment. But instruments like that are valuable mainly because of their collector's value, rather than their value as instruments.
There's a large supply of good violins out there made by great luthiers , and the price really depends more on how famous the maker is than the actual sound of the instrument. For five figures--about what the 400 pounds was back then--you can get pretty much a top-notch violin. And you can get a professional-level violin for about the price of a good accordion. Things really haven't changed that much.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Marklar
Re: Ryanair at it again!
The good news is that today there are luthiers around who are making violins that will surely be the Stradivaris and Guarneris of tomorrow, and at a price affordable by an individual.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Marklar, we cross-posted, and are singing more or less from the same song sheet. I've wondered sometimes who bought that cello. A few years later I met an amateur cellist in Bristol Uni Orchestra - he was a lecturer at the Uni - who played an Amati, but it wasn't him, he'd had his Amati rather longer.
Back in those days it wasn't uncommon to find amateur as well as professional musicians playing old instruments that today would be completely beyond their reach financially.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Ryanair at it again!
"Ryanair spokesman Stephen McNamara said: 'The policy has been the same for two years and the terms and conditions clearly explain that musical instruments need to have a second seat.'"
So Ryanair I suppose flutes and whistles require a second seat. What about clarinets? Or concertinas? That rule is incomplete and stupid and they need to be told.
The stupidist thing I've heard since I was denied compensation for a ding on my hammered dulcimer because "we don't pay for damage to financial instruments." OK the person was not speaking her native language, but really...
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by cboody
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Flutes and whistles don't require a second seat. Only things that are too big to fit in hand luggage 55cms by 40cms by 20cms will require a second seat.
(I'm always happy to buy a seat for an instrument on UK-Ireland flights - it is nearly always cheaper than paying the extortionate charge to check in a bag.)
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by DaveL35
Re: Ryanair at it again!
An extra Ryanair seat, if booked in good time, will not make "massive inroads" into anyone's funds.
That is why people continue to use them despite all the bad PR.
A charity concern in England wouldn't even be thinking of flying a trio in from Germany if airfares were still at pre-Ryanair levels.
I'm very surprised to hear that they thought they'd got some exemption from Ryanair - I've never had any dialogue with them apart from "ka-ching!"
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by Bren
Re: Ryanair at it again!
One of these days Southwest Airlines is going to go international and give RyanAir a run for its money.
When that happens I will use all my drink coupons from flying them 50 times a year for everyone around me.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by zippydw
Re: Ryanair at it again!
When I looked recently (uk to Dublin) I was qouted £40 each way for an instrument if it went in the baggage hold uninsured. Maybe you could do it cheaper if you somehow put the flight case inside a very large holdall and called it 'baggage'. And then there's the £30 each per bag for the clothes etc, I think its the end of cheap flights for musicians
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by whistlingrich
Re: Ryanair at it again!
>> Maybe you could do it cheaper if you somehow put the flight case inside a very large holdall and called it 'baggage'. <<
On UK-Dublin flights you can do it a lot cheaper by booking a second seat, as discussed above.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by DaveL35
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Also, to avoid the "handling fee" (or whatever it's called) of £5 per person per flight, use a prepaid Mastercard debit card, which does not incur the fee.
This saves me £20 on each return trip, as I book two seats.
# Posted on August 4th 2010 by DaveL35
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Ryanair offer to play a game with you. Play the game right and you get where you want to go at very low cost. Play it wrong and they win by getting you to pay more. You don't have to play the game so don't whinge when you lose
# Posted on August 7th 2010 by TomB-R
Re: Ryanair at it again!
I wonder if this trio of musicians bothered with travel insurance? I'm guessing they did.
Love to see how much their travel insurance excess is after filling in the value of the instrument they're travelling with.
# Posted on August 8th 2010 by upmine3
Re: Ryanair at it again!
Ryanair state that you can buy a seat for small instruments such as violins and guitars. Does anyone know if that applies to Bass Guitars?
# Posted on August 11th 2010 by singer210
Re: Ryanair at it again!
well that's fine, but will they offer them a meal and a drink?
# Posted on August 11th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Ryanair at it again!
They don't even offer human beings that anymore.
# Posted on August 11th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Ryanair at it again!
don't they have to get their priorities right, ss?!
# Posted on August 11th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Ryanair at it again!
don't view this if you don't like bad language
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc
# Posted on September 13th 2010 by bogman