the start of Cooleys reel (EBBA B2 EB|B2). There is a bit of jumping from E to B and back. Would you generally a) jump from the D to the A string (and vica versa) with your left index finger or would you b) hold down both at the same time with the left index finger. I'm finding it hard to play fast when using method "a" but i;m finding "b" virtually impossible. I've no teacher and hence i'm reaching out to the masses.
With practice (slow and steady) you’ll be able to do both.
If you go for method ‘b’ using a part barre with the index finger to play the E and B you release the finger completely from the fret for the A, this however gives a simultaneous ‘pull-off’ from E to D which you may or may not want. (I quite like that though).
You could also try putting down the index finger on the E and the adjacent finger on the B for the first bar and ‘go for’ the top d with your pinkie in the next bar.
Neither; I find both a) and b) to be unsatisfactory.
I (simultaneously) hold down the E with my index finger, and the B with my middle finger. I then revert to 'standard' position, using my index finger to play the following B. This not only alleviates the disadvantages of a) and b) above, but also allows some additional ornamentation by pulling-off to the first A (something a little like EBB/2A/2A).
Oops sorry; I see you were asking better players only..
"If you go for method ‘b’ using a part barre with the index finger to play the E and B you release the finger completely from the fret for the A"
Or not - you can also pivot the index finger to just hold down the D string.
I think I generally use the single-finger partial bar, but I find I can't visualise it. Maybe I don't do the same thing each time. Probably the latter - I'm pretty sure I use two fingers on adjacent frets at least some of the time. (Sporting Paddy comes to mind).
Ignoring the "better" qualification...
I knew that I do a partial barre on mandolin, and I just checked that I also do so on banjo. The barre can be at a 45 degree angle, using just your forefinger, bending the first knuckle backwards.
Practice simply by pressing your thumb and index finger together (no one will notice if you do it in public).
Using first and second finger simultaneously is also good.
I'd try to stick with option 'b' for a few reasons. 1) you are doing less with your left hand so with practice the tune should flow better and 2) that there are a good few tunes out there that involve jumping from the E to B and B to E, like Drowsie Maggie and Pigeon on the Gate. However these tunes involve a high D' after the B/E so playing them while barring the B and E will allow you to use your pinkie to hit the high D' and the tune to flow better. Option 'a' might lead to a very staccato sounding tune.
As for playing fast, practice slow and get your technique right. If your technique is right (both on the left and right hand) speed will naturally follow with practice!!!
For a bit of variation, I sometimes play the Es an octave up, on the open first string. This seems to sound better if you are playing with others, though.
I think it's the same thing as with right hand technique - if you try to have a solid rule, you'll find yourself doing the wrong thing at least a lot of the time. Do what the tune calls for. I know I play a partial barre on Rolling in the Barrel, and I sometimes use the two adjacent fingers. Sometimes I use the index finger on the lower string, sometimes I use the impolite finger on the lower string, it depends on where the tune comes from and where it goes after that. I seldom hop with the index finger in this situation, but I won't say I never do that. I might be lying if I did.
I am primarily a mandolin player, but I play banjo better than *some* people (there are also many who play **much** better than me, including probably most, if not all, of the contributors to this discussion so far), so I suppose that qualifies me to answer this question.
Jumping across seems awkward to me, and very difficult to do quickly enough in a reel at dance speed. It might be a useful technique to have up your sleeve if you specifically want a staccato effect, but it makes it more or less impossible to get a smooth transition between notes, if that is what you are aiming at.
Barring across the two strings would seem the better option to me - although it is worth bearing in mind that, since you are not playing the two notes simultaneously, you do not need to hold down both strings with full pressure all of the time - you can slightly 'roll' your finger from string to string, applying full pressure only as needed. Depending on the particular physiology of your hands and fingers, you might even find it easier to release your finger from the D-string altogether whilst playing the B on the A-string. But economy of movement is the way to go, so the less you can get away with, the better.
If you have especially slender fingers (or an especially wide necked banjo), then using two fingers, as oldstrings suggests above, is also an option. But you would need to revert to using the 1st finger for the E in the 2nd bar, in order to free up the 2nd finger for the D.
many thanks all for replies. i think the takeaway from most posts is to practise "b" but also try using the adjacent finger method as well. with the caveat that one should not get over reliant on any one method.
Also, for those who asked about the definition of "better" I suppose I was referring to banjo players who don't need to ask the question I posed. But agreed its all relative.
b is harder at start.. but do it.. will become easy thats how u improve... plus e and b are part of an Em cord.. which is the key cooleys is inn.. mess about with that too
Barring across the two strings is definitely better, if you want you can also play the E along with the B sometimes to create a chrod effect.
The real difficulty arises when you start having to barre across the 5th fret on the D and A strings, or even worse (though rarely) you have to barre across the A and E strings and use your baby finger to tap on the 7th. In my opinion that is the most difficult fingering on the banjo, if you can do that you can do anything.
barring builds strength and can use that strength elsewhere on neck- breathe-relax- go slow and watch that muscle between the thumb and first finger grow - and have fun (in a fiddle workshop for kids Matin Hayes was asked how much he " practiced" every day- his response was that he didn't practice at all but that he "played" every day- it should be fun
calling better banjo players...
calling better banjo players...
the start of Cooleys reel (EBBA B2 EB|B2). There is a bit of jumping from E to B and back. Would you generally a) jump from the D to the A string (and vica versa) with your left index finger or would you b) hold down both at the same time with the left index finger. I'm finding it hard to play fast when using method "a" but i;m finding "b" virtually impossible. I've no teacher and hence i'm reaching out to the masses.
Feedback much appreciated
Cheers,
Cathal
# Posted on July 29th 2010 by CathalC
Re: calling better banjo players...
"Better banjo players"? Better than what? It is all relative I suppose but the definition of a good banjo player would be one that is far, far away.
# Posted on July 29th 2010 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: calling better banjo players...
With practice (slow and steady) you’ll be able to do both.
If you go for method ‘b’ using a part barre with the index finger to play the E and B you release the finger completely from the fret for the A, this however gives a simultaneous ‘pull-off’ from E to D which you may or may not want. (I quite like that though).
You could also try putting down the index finger on the E and the adjacent finger on the B for the first bar and ‘go for’ the top d with your pinkie in the next bar.
# Posted on July 29th 2010 by Gran Cassa
Re: calling better banjo players...
Neither; I find both a) and b) to be unsatisfactory.
I (simultaneously) hold down the E with my index finger, and the B with my middle finger. I then revert to 'standard' position, using my index finger to play the following B. This not only alleviates the disadvantages of a) and b) above, but also allows some additional ornamentation by pulling-off to the first A (something a little like EBB/2A/2A).
Oops sorry; I see you were asking better players only..
# Posted on July 29th 2010 by Rick Payman
Re: calling better banjo players...
"If you go for method ‘b’ using a part barre with the index finger to play the E and B you release the finger completely from the fret for the A"
Or not - you can also pivot the index finger to just hold down the D string.
I think I generally use the single-finger partial bar, but I find I can't visualise it. Maybe I don't do the same thing each time. Probably the latter - I'm pretty sure I use two fingers on adjacent frets at least some of the time. (Sporting Paddy comes to mind).
# Posted on July 29th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: calling better banjo players...
Ignoring the "better" qualification...
I knew that I do a partial barre on mandolin, and I just checked that I also do so on banjo. The barre can be at a 45 degree angle, using just your forefinger, bending the first knuckle backwards.
Practice simply by pressing your thumb and index finger together (no one will notice if you do it in public).
Using first and second finger simultaneously is also good.
# Posted on July 29th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: calling better banjo players...
I'd try to stick with option 'b' for a few reasons. 1) you are doing less with your left hand so with practice the tune should flow better and 2) that there are a good few tunes out there that involve jumping from the E to B and B to E, like Drowsie Maggie and Pigeon on the Gate. However these tunes involve a high D' after the B/E so playing them while barring the B and E will allow you to use your pinkie to hit the high D' and the tune to flow better. Option 'a' might lead to a very staccato sounding tune.
As for playing fast, practice slow and get your technique right. If your technique is right (both on the left and right hand) speed will naturally follow with practice!!!
Good luck.
# Posted on July 29th 2010 by Willy Heelan
Re: calling better banjo players...
.Many years ago I asked myself the same question. To b) or Not To b) and decided To b).
# Posted on July 30th 2010 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: calling better banjo players...
For a bit of variation, I sometimes play the Es an octave up, on the open first string. This seems to sound better if you are playing with others, though.
# Posted on July 30th 2010 by sechan
Re: calling better banjo players...
I think it's the same thing as with right hand technique - if you try to have a solid rule, you'll find yourself doing the wrong thing at least a lot of the time. Do what the tune calls for. I know I play a partial barre on Rolling in the Barrel, and I sometimes use the two adjacent fingers. Sometimes I use the index finger on the lower string, sometimes I use the impolite finger on the lower string, it depends on where the tune comes from and where it goes after that. I seldom hop with the index finger in this situation, but I won't say I never do that. I might be lying if I did.
# Posted on July 30th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: calling better banjo players...
willy heelan is right. hes practically written what i was about to write .
# Posted on July 30th 2010 by banjitar
Re: calling better banjo players...
I am primarily a mandolin player, but I play banjo better than *some* people (there are also many who play **much** better than me, including probably most, if not all, of the contributors to this discussion so far), so I suppose that qualifies me to answer this question.
Jumping across seems awkward to me, and very difficult to do quickly enough in a reel at dance speed. It might be a useful technique to have up your sleeve if you specifically want a staccato effect, but it makes it more or less impossible to get a smooth transition between notes, if that is what you are aiming at.
Barring across the two strings would seem the better option to me - although it is worth bearing in mind that, since you are not playing the two notes simultaneously, you do not need to hold down both strings with full pressure all of the time - you can slightly 'roll' your finger from string to string, applying full pressure only as needed. Depending on the particular physiology of your hands and fingers, you might even find it easier to release your finger from the D-string altogether whilst playing the B on the A-string. But economy of movement is the way to go, so the less you can get away with, the better.
# Posted on July 30th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: calling better banjo players...
If you have especially slender fingers (or an especially wide necked banjo), then using two fingers, as oldstrings suggests above, is also an option. But you would need to revert to using the 1st finger for the E in the 2nd bar, in order to free up the 2nd finger for the D.
# Posted on July 30th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: calling better banjo players...
many thanks all for replies. i think the takeaway from most posts is to practise "b" but also try using the adjacent finger method as well. with the caveat that one should not get over reliant on any one method.
Also, for those who asked about the definition of "better" I suppose I was referring to banjo players who don't need to ask the question I posed. But agreed its all relative.
Anyway, thanks again
# Posted on July 30th 2010 by CathalC
Re: calling better banjo players...
b is harder at start.. but do it.. will become easy thats how u improve... plus e and b are part of an Em cord.. which is the key cooleys is inn.. mess about with that too
# Posted on July 31st 2010 by MartyC145
Re: calling better banjo players...
Barring across the two strings is definitely better, if you want you can also play the E along with the B sometimes to create a chrod effect.
The real difficulty arises when you start having to barre across the 5th fret on the D and A strings, or even worse (though rarely) you have to barre across the A and E strings and use your baby finger to tap on the 7th. In my opinion that is the most difficult fingering on the banjo, if you can do that you can do anything.
# Posted on July 31st 2010 by dlunney
Re: calling better banjo players...
barring builds strength and can use that strength elsewhere on neck- breathe-relax- go slow and watch that muscle between the thumb and first finger grow - and have fun (in a fiddle workshop for kids Matin Hayes was asked how much he " practiced" every day- his response was that he didn't practice at all but that he "played" every day- it should be fun
# Posted on July 31st 2010 by four
Re: calling better banjo players...
its simple enough, just rock your finger over. no need to keep both held down or keep lifting off
# Posted on August 6th 2010 by FastEddie