I'm headed over to busk at the local farmers market today. One thing that I love is the folks who have never heard uilleann pipes or for that matter any trad at all. They get the funniest looks on their faces. Some just wander away bewildered, others come over and start asking questions as I attempt to finish a tune. There's always someone whose great grandfather played GHB. They say. "Wow those sound different. Those aren't bagpipes are they?" The little kids are the best, they just dance joyfully. It's so much fun to play the music here in the Nashville country rock and roll dominated US where sometimes, many people are completely unaware that ITM exists. It always seems to put a smile one everyones face no matter how perplexed they may be. Anyone got any good busking stories to share? Gotta go now, I'll read this upon my return.
Not so much about busking, but about kids and music - I was waiting for a bus one time, and this being Portland I was able to call the dial-a-bus line and find out that I had about fifteen minutes. So, having a whistle with me, I pulled it out to have a tune. I' was playing for a few minutes, and I saw this kid out of the corner of my eye, and I could sort of see that he was looking - not so much "joyful" as totally amazed. I kept playing, and he just looked completely puzzled, and finally I worked it out - this kid had probably never hear music that didn't come out of a box before. And by box, I don't mean an accordion, I mean a pair of speakers. He had no idea that people could do that!
I don't have any stories but I've had more fun playing on the street,at campgrounds or on beaches at night than I've had playing sessions or gigs. At a session or a gig there's an air of familiarity but not so in an impromptu situation like busking. The last gig I played I had more fun in the alley playing with a kid who came to the show( he on my guitar, me on whistle) than I had at the show. That was the last gig I played. I quit when I realised it was no fun.
Not busking, per se, but I've been playing my fiddle on my big front porch on Main Street lately, down on the island, and meet some interesting people, there being lots of visitors there this time of year.
The day after the 4th of July I was on the porch playing, as usual, and a big gang was walking by, stopped and asked me to play the Star Spangled Banner, which I obliged them with, figuring it out quickly by ear. The second time through I had them all sing along, which they did, splendidly. The funny thing was, half the group was from France.
Then the teenage girl in the group announced that she also played, so I handed her my fiddle and she played part of the Bach a-minor.
In all, it was a fun exchange for a Monday morning.
My mother always told me, 'Play an instrument and you'll always have friends," and she was right.
It's good to hear that Oregon is busker-friendly. An English friend of mine tried busking in Florida many years ago and was threatened with arrest for 'soliciting' (which means something quite different in the UK, incidentally.). Fortunately, this seemed to be peculiar to the laws of that state and he did not experience the same thing anywhere else. Actually, I have another friend living in Eugene, Oregon, and from what she tells me, it's th kind of place where buskers would be appreciated.
For my bit, I've just been busking today in Richmond (Surrey, England, not Yorkshire, Virginia or British Columbia). Not a bad place, but, being a suburb or London as it is, it's hard to connect with people - a phenomenon I've come to associate with busking in large cities in general. The suburban coolness was, however, counterbalanced by an eccentric borderline-baglady (to use the proper clinical nomenclature) coming and dancing (having politely asked my permission), whilst mimicking the sound of my whistle.
After busking on a street corner with a friend for 20 minutes in Delray Beach, Florida, I was once threatened with a court summons for violating a city ordinance whereby all street performers must audition before an assembled council, be approved by said council, submit a written account of repertoire to be reviewed and approved by said council, and be granted a performer's permit not to be used on any day other than the sanctioned date (usually coinciding with a city sponsored festival or holiday event).
Talk about over governance. Not bad for a state that calls itself the "State of the Arts."
I'm not sure whether my fiddle playing gives Irish music a particularly good name (I was principally playing fiddle today, with a few tunes on whistle - mandolin's my usual weapon).
Talk about differences of rule in different states, sheesh, the folks out here invited me to busk at their farmers market. Although I have had some difficulty with local ordinances in some places, I've never been threatened with arrest or court summons. Most places in Oregon, they really appreciate it.
I had a couple from Taiwan listen for quite a while today, between tunes the woman asked in broken english " Are you a musician?" I laughed and said "Nope not me, I never touch the stuff." They roared with laughter and gave me a tip. I think they really meant to ask "are you a paid professional musician" I don't think they understood when I told them I was busking but I managed to come up with a good impromptu joke.
I've done a fair bit of busking around Europe. In general, I have found that the best approach is to choose a spot I like, start playing an see what happens. If anyone tells me it's not allowed, I dutifully pack up, but ask, as politely as possible, if there is anywhere where it *is* allowed, whether I need a permit etc. If they do not co-operate, I drop the matter. But I have, on occasion, made specific enquiries at tourist information centres, about the local laws on busking.
One such occasion was in the delightfully named town of Middelfart, on the island of Fyn, Denmark. I can't remember why I chose to enquire, rather that just go ahead and play - perhaps I felt it was such a neat, well-kept town that an unkempt itinerant musician might offend it's municipal sensibilities. Clearly, my hunch was correct, as the lady at the tourist desk informed me that I did, indeed, need permission to busk, which I could obtain from the police headquarters, located in the town hall. I went to the town hall, ascended several flights of stairs, navigated a maze of corridors and found the chief of police sitting behind a traditional wooden desk.
Having established that we had a language in common, I stated my reason for being there. He then proceeded to interrogate me in perfect English - Where was I from? What instrument did I play? What kind of music? Where and when did I intend to play? How long did I intend to stay? Of course, I was only passing through and had no intention of staying more than one night (or, if the busking was particularly good, perhaps 2 nights). I told him this and he responded, in a matter-of-fact tone, " In that case, I won't give you permission to play." I was quite taken aback by this, as I had assumed the 'interview' was just a formality, to establish I was not a 'bad sort' or some such like, and that there could not be any reasonable objection to my playing. In fact, I was left in some uncertainty as to whether what he actually meant to say was, since I would only be there for one day, I was free to busk without being issued an official permit. But it seemed a bit too complicated to try and clarify this. So, to play safe, I chose not to give myself the benefit of the doubt, and left town somewhat dejected. I subsequently had several days and nights of good busking in the rather more cosmopolitan town of Odense.
I used to busk in the lovely city of Bath. At that time I played accordion. One day an elderly lady walked past, then stopped, came back and stood for a minute looking intently at my face. Then in an angry and accusing voice she said "you're not blind at all!", and stormed off.
I used to keep my box under my desk at work, and on nice days I'd go out to the park near my office and play a few tunes at lunch. There were a few good encounters there. One, sort of bizarre, was the guy who walked by and stood in front of me, acting like he wanted to tell me something, until I cut off the set to see what he was on about. He said to me "man, you're great- don't ever let anyone make you stop playing!". I didn't point out that that's exactly what he'd just done...
A more straightforwardly pleasant encounter was the Vietnamese lady, in her middle sixties, I'd guess, who tried to put money in my case. This despite the fact that it was closed. I told her, no, I'm just practising, and we got into a nice conversation. She apologized for her poor English - but as it was her fourth or fifth language, it was understandable!
One thing she told me was that she played the piano, a little. "I'm not very good, but it makes me so happy!" I told her I feel the same.
You do meet some interesting people, playing music...
I never refuse money for playing tunes Jon. The economy is way too rough these days to turn down a buck. But I'd prefer meeting an interesting person over a buck anytime. Interesting people are far more worthwhile than money. Better yet, if an interesting person offers me a buck to play a tune....well....I have no shame I guess.
I go to Golden Gate park and play tunes on the rare occasion when it's too hot to play in my flat. I always end up meeting someone interesting... sometimes Irish tourists are interested and want to find out where in Ireland I'm from... until I open my mouth that is. But I wouldn't call what I do "busking" since I never put out any sort of receptacle for donations. People sometimes place dollar bills around creatively, and I often hand them back explaining I'm just there to enjoy the cool air and scenery as I practice tunes. Once two lovely young girls tried to give me cash and I handed it back with the explanation... and they stood for a while listening, and then waved and continued on their way. About 20 minutes later they returned with flowers they found and, with a smile, placed them on my flute case. That was worth far more than the cash they offered the first time... and I gratefully accepted.
That's really nice that they enjoyed your playing so much that when you refused their first gift they searched and found something you'd be happy with. They were very thoughtful people.
I find when people offer me something be it money, conversation, a beer, or in Phantoms case flowers, that it is ungrateful and rude to refuse them the opportunity to give. When you deny someone the opportunity to give a it is a passive put down of sorts. When you refuse someones gift you are basically telling them that you can't be bothered with accepting something from them. I am always grateful to accept someones gift. Almost as grateful as when they accept a gift from me.
If someone really insists on throwing me a dollar, I won't say no. It's just that I want it to be clear that that's not why I'm out there, that they can listen without bothering about the dollar. So I'll say thanks for the thought, but it's really not necessary. Sort of like if a neighbor goes away for a week, and you feed their cat for them while they're gone. If they offered to pay me for that, I'd try to find some polite way of letting them know that I'm doing that because I'm their neighbor, and the idea of being paid was not in my mind.
On the other hand, if they were to find some sort of token thing - a bottle of wine, a loaf of bread - I'd take that gladly, and enjoy it, and feel a little closer to them after that interchange, which is not an exchange.
To get into the philosophical, perhaps over my head, there's something about cash money that (to me) defeats the idea of a gift. A gift is not the thing given, it's the act of sharing. Cash cannot be shared - either I spend it, or you do. A dollar is mine, or it's yours, or it's fifty cents for me and fifty cents for you, but it's never ours. A bottle of wine is shared - you give me a bottle of wine, you're wishing me a very particular sort of happiness. You give me flowers, you're passing on a concrete aesthetic experience which then links us, weakly perhaps, but in a much more lasting way than a similar sum of money. The wine, or the flowers, then, are ours, while the dollar is first yours, then mine.
I see the money as a gift thing as a shallow gift to give too, but, I still see it as a kind offering that I need not turn down.
My neighbor brought a loaf of homemade banana bread over after I loaned her my shop vac. I can't imagine her offering a dollar for the loan of a shop vac. She never would offer a dollar. Banana bread is a heartfelt gift.
I've played music with and for them many times in exchange of friendship, a shared meal, a glass of wine.
It's funny how money has taken the place of what could be a beautiful exchange of things in some circumstances.
Music for instance.
Once a standard is set, people go with the standard. I would gladly accept the flowers as soon as a dollar for a tune but the standard exchange of things must be dealt with first. Much the same way Phantom, in a round about way, changed the standard with the girls.
Now whenever they hear him play in the park they'll bring flowers. But, rest assured, there will be many more folks who will offer a dollar and feel uncomfortable when it is refused. People like to show their appreciation. It's a human trait. That's the standard. Even if it is a shallow dollar, it's still a grateful show of appreciation.
I hear ya, Boatpiper, but I think what I was hoping to get away from was the idea that people listening to the music felt they had to contribute money just because they enjoyed the music. Anywhere else in this city where people play in public there's an underlying expectation that you donate money if you're enjoying the music or whatever it is they're doing. I wanted to give them something back in the way of not having to feel bad about not giving me money... but maybe that's too much in my own head and more for me than for them. I have done a fair mount of busking in the financial district, and made some good money doing it, but sitting in the park to escape the heat of my flat was different. I thought it would be nice to offer the music to anyone who happened by and enjoyed it... without expectations of donations... would be a nice gesture. The two young women seemed to get it.
I confess to being an out-and-out, in-it-for-the-money busker. Not that there's much money to be had, just that I can't get it together to earn a steady income by more conventional means and it provides a useful supplement to my various other trickles of income. But, whilst every coin that drops into my case provides some sense of achievement, the *enjoyment* comes from the smiles, the skips and dances of passers by, the compliments, the conversations, discovering a new variation, remembering a long-forgotten tune, feeling that I am playing better than last year. During yesterday's busking, a waiter from a nearby cafe, who seemed to be distributing promotional drinks to members of the public, gave me a small cup of iced green tea with peppermint; I enjoyed sipping it far more than I would have enjoyed receiving its value in brass.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that cold hard cash seldom offends me. Not that I'd object to the flowers, or indeed any other, more personalised, version of a present.
On the flip side of the coin (pun intended) Just the act of someone lending an ear and giving some of their time to listen attentively is an honor of thanks as well. Phantom, your observation about folks feeling obligated to pay is an important factor. That's the standard that has been set for them and it's too bad. Nobody should have to feel obligated to pay for tunes that are freely being shared for enjoyment in the park. That steals the charm from the gift of tunes that we musicians have to give. But when they are moved by what they hear in a way that they feel a desire to give something in thanks, well that's alot different from the notion of an expected payment just because they happened upon a busker. Nobody should be, or for that matter, ever is obligated to pay, or even give an attentive ear to a busker.
"On the other hand, if they were to find some sort of token thing - a bottle of wine, a loaf of bread - I'd take that gladly, and enjoy it, and feel a little closer to them after that interchange, which is not an exchange."
I agree completely with the philosophy, Jon, but we have entered into the cash standard, in part, because it is more convenient than carrying wine or flowers around.
I find that location and positioning can make it fairly clear what the expectations are, apart from having an obvious receptacle in place. Sometimes I do get food or flowers in my banjo case, especially at markets! At least it provides a place to leave expressions of appreciation.
Some people will stay far away from anyone who appears to be "soliciting", perhaps having experienced aggressive panhandlers ( "Spare change, man?") I like to have the case visible, but off to the side, so it does not interfere with personal
communication. If a vessel is not available, I find that there can be more interruptions from passersby who are not clear on what one is doing. Of course, if your goal is to strike up conversations...
Oldstrings - all of that was essentially to get us away from the idea of a "gift" which seems inappropriate for the case at hand, for the reasons explained. The wine or flowers was more related to the cat-sitting example - you'd be reluctant to accept cash from a neighbor for a simple neighborly favor, but you'd be happy to take an actual gift. The point being that cash isn't a gift, properly speaking, and people who give cash as a gift are confused about what constitutes a gift in the first place, so Boatpiper's admonition was incorrect.
That's the philosophy part. For the concrete part, if you're actually busking, yes, you expect cash money as a (voluntary) fee for a (voluntary) service, and you provide a place to deposit that fee. If you're not busking, but just sitting outside playing a few tunes, it's reasonable to alert people to that fact when they try to put dollars in your case - especially when you're resting your feet on the case at the time!
You pay $20 to park your car a $39 late fee and interest on everything. A few dollars for something meaningful is the least someone can do for such a gift
Jon, in certain circumstances I do suppose that there is misconception about wheather or not cash can actually be a gift.
But I think it is also a misconception to say in black and white terms that it cannot ever be considered a gift.
Even when I was a kid, my grandma would sneak a quarter into an unexpected place for us to find as hidden treasure or sometimes she'd put it in a card, or, likewise even just give us kids a hug and a kiss and hand us a quarter all the same. Are you going to say that my grandma was paying me to be her grandchild? No, of course not, nobody would say that.
Consider this.
During the late 1800's when my grandma was a little girl in Norway, children would scarecely ever have their hands on even as much as a penny. So then, after stuggling her whole life, immigrating to America, surviving the great depression, there she was, an old lady in her 80's able to hand her grandchildren each quarter and sometimes even a dollar.
It gave her a great sense of achievement to even think of doing such a thing.
This is the type of thing that happens when people have a true appreciation for what it means to work hard for your money, to rise from poverty to find success within your own lifetime. Has money become so worthless to us that we should not condider it valuable as a gift?
We have been spoiled as children of wealth in the way my grandma never knew as a child. Money was and still is a very important thing for survival. For her to give you some really did mean that she loved us in a way that we will never know. It was all a show of love and gratitude and she enjoyed giving us a quarter or even a dollar because what 6 year old doesn't love getting that all for their own. It made for some fond memories for all of us. So I think you may be a bit overly firm in your stance that cash can never be considered as a gift. I don't believe my admonition to be completely wrong at all. Even though I do consider money to be a somewhat shallow gift, to my grandma, it was one of the greatest gifts of all and I would never have dreamed of insulting her by refusing her gift.
That's a great story, bp, and I think it proves my point somewhat. The point being, of course, that a gift is not simply a thing of value, but a thing shared, and typically money is not shared. In this case, however, it was a token - the important thing was your grandmother, not the coin.
It's not that money is worthless, it's precisely the opposite. The worth of money is in the fact that it's fungible, you can exchange it for anything, as long as you've got enough of it. But that's what makes it not a gift, since it's really not anything in particular, and simply makes your spending power greater.
Since we're in story time, here's one. My friend Dan and I both enjoy whisk[e]ys of various sorts, and when we shared a house we had quite a collection. For years we'd mark birthdays by giving each other bottles of something interesting. Now, since we both spent about the same amount on those bottles, you could say (as an analytical economist) that we might as well have simply bought our own bottles, and then we'd have more utility from them, since we'd be buying exactly what we wanted, or we'd have done better to give each other the cost of a bottle. (his birthday precedes mine by two months, so essentially it would be me loaning him $50 for two months) Since all three of these options work out to the same outcome, how is it that one is a gift and the others are not? To my mind, value (in the sense of price) is not what makes a gift.
Jon, I suppose you have every right to consider what can be used as a gift and what is not a gift within what it means to you, just as do I too, as well as my grandma did.
Perceptions within each individual persons mind develop as well as shift over time. Sometimes becoming molded like a brick, other times flowing fluid as water when our minds are effected by the things we each experience.
Within my experience, I consider money to be a gift when used as a token of appreciation, love or gratitude. For true love, appreciation and gratitude cannot be bought or sold. These things are truly priceless. So when money is given as a token of this it must be considered a gift in my mind.
Tis also true as you say, that value, (in the sense of price) is definately not what makes a gift.
However, If I were to buy a set of pipes from you, then I see money as a means of purchasing a set of pipes. I can haggle the price down. We all know that is what doing buisness is. It's how money was intended to be used for commerce.
In the case of me giving you a gift of a dollar because I appreciate your friendship, would you turn it down if that was what I considered to be a token to show that I appreciate you as a friend, though, as strange as the offering may be?
I used to feel a little strange when grandma gave me a quarter sometimes, but that's just because I don't see money as being the same thing that she saw it to be. But I understood that she enjoyed giving me a quarter because she loved me and saw that I knew it. That was her way. Just like you see it differently too, that's your way.
A gift is really more about the person giving it than the person receiving it, because, as the old saying goes, tis better to give than to receive.
Sorry, bp, I missed your post above. Must have come in before or among the massive silliness about "diddly".
Let me say, I'm not trying to make some normative case that one "should not" consider this, that, or the other thing a "proper gift". What I'm trying to do is more of an exercise in linguistic philosophy - trying to unpack the way we use words and consider situations to try to reveal something about the way the world is.
And likewise, even if I find it a little odd, I am in fact capable of understanding the spirit behind a gift, accepting the gift for its intent. That is, I wouldn't sneer at someone for giving a gift that didn't come up to my expectations. What I'm more interested in is how it comes that someone can, as it seems to me, confuse two totally separate transactions. A "gift", it seems to me, is necessarily personal. If I don't know someone, giving them a "gift" is a farce, because the point of a gift is to recognize some inherent connection between two people, and to find the token that most reflects that unity. It's really more of a ritual, complete with its fetish (old sense, not the modern sense!) to bind the the spell.
And in that sense, your grandmother's gifts fall right in, even more so than some trinket she might have given you, because she managed to impress the quarter so thoroughly into you that it's still with you, years later.
To refer to pressing a dollar onto someone who's playing music as a "gift", then, to me seems a little like telling a Catholic you're going to go down to the church to get a glass of wine. Yes, you would get a little wine out of the deal, but it's rather far from the point.
Here's another story: Some time ago, one of the members here mentioned a fan of the diddly music who was a regular listener at his session. This old feller, it seems, was in the habit of buying a round for the musicians, since the bar wasn't in that habit. And he did this every week, it seems, for quite a while, and perhaps still does. That is a lovely gesture, and I see no reason not to call it a gift. Now, imagine the same gentleman coming in every week, and handing each of the players cash equivalent to the price of a pint. Same economic transaction, except the money is MORE useful - it's fungible, you can have the pint or anything else of equivalent value - but I think we'd all find that sort of weird. More than sort of, especially if it happened every week. The guy might still be nice, but he'd also be considered a little mad.
And that's the difference I'm trying to get at.
Maybe this is a fiddling distinction that makes no difference, but to me it seems to say a lot about what gifts are, and what they're not. Maybe it's important to think about this sort of stuff - or maybe not. Anyway, to me it's much more interesting than the other big discussions we've seen today.
Jon, I like the distinction you're making. But can't a genuine gift between strangers recognize "some inherent connection" between them, simply as human beings?
Interesting, the online etymological dictionary says the word "gift" is related to an old German term for "dowry." Which certainly fits more with your explication of this, Jon.
Will - you may be right. Give me a story, though. For me, gifts are so much about knowing the person that what you're talking about might be (for me, not necessarily for you) a different sort of a thing. Still a fine thing, and one I'd like to see more of, but different. Maybe if you give me a good case to consider, it'll make more sense to me your way.
Here in my hometown, every year, some anonymous person leaves a $20 gold coin in one of the Salvation Army kettles put out around Christmas. That sort of thing. Have you ever been in line when the person in front of you discovers they have no money on them, and you just pay for it, for them? Total strangers. Simple stuff. Makes their whole day.
Will - I like your last example, because it's a personal encounter between two people, and it's one that they will probably both carry away with them. (The dollar in the busker's case, in contrast, is eminently forgettable - it's usually forgotten by both parties as soon as it happens)
What I think distinguishes it from the gift, as I see it, is that your example is motivated by an immediate need. A gift, for me, is more gratuitious. (There's more etymology for you!)
But there is a gift there, if you like. It's not the money, it's the willingness to intervene on a stranger's behalf.
When I was a teenager, I got mixed up with a troupe of amateur clowns. These were guys and gals who all worked at the same company, and they'd hit on the idea that it would be fun to learn some circus skills and express their collective sense of humor. A son of one of them happened to be my best friend. We both learned to juggle and ride unicycles, so before you know it, we were both conscripted into the troupe. (Of course, the company got wind of the whole thing and bought a classy antique fire truck so they could get publicity out of it at parades. But that's another discussion.)
The main thing these clowns did was go to the Philadelphia Childrens Hospital and a couple of local homes for developmentally disabled folks and just mingle with the people, making balloon animals, teaching them how to juggle scarves, doing little magic tricks, and generally giving people a good healthy laugh.
While there might have been an "immediate need," we quickly got past that and simply gave the gift of some lighthearted fun for an hour or two.
Playing music where people can overhear often works the same way and gives a similar sort of lift to peoples' day. Seems gratuitous, eh?
I think that one of the gifts of busking or clowning or anything that creates a little bit of art in the world is to show people that life doesn't have to be a spectator sport. When I go to the park or stand on a street and play with a couple of friends, I show people that you don't have to be a professional to play an instrument. (Boy howdy, do I....) Yes, folks, YOU can play music. Go out and buy a banjo. Turn off the TV and do some human interaction stuff. Quit consuming and make something. I am a street-corner revolutionary. Power to the band geeks who never grew up!
Batlady, that's the real gift, isn't it--giving people an opportunity to participate in life instead of letting it pass them by.
Sessions tend to work that way too, when local people see their friends and neighbors making music and having a good time, without any pretense of being professionals (or even rehearsed! ). Over the years, our local sesh has picked up new participants for just this reason--they see people making music just for fun, and they go buy a penny whistle or dig the old "violin" out of the closet, and soon they're at the weekly tune learning session. Before you know it, they're sitting in at the pub on Thursday nights, part of the circle. Now *that's* a gratuitous gift to bestow on someone!
Thinking about all of this, it strikes me that, in addition to being gratuitous, the best gifts are also trivial and/or ephemeral. A bottle of wine lasts as long as it takes to drink it, flowers brighten up the room for a few days. A stuffed animal or other tchotchke doesn't change your life in any economically measurable way. But the wine or the flowers cement a friendship, the stuffed animal or the tchotchke makes it concrete. And your examples are right in line with that, except that they don't require a pre-existing friendship.
It seems I wasn't thinking broadly enough on the matter.
However, I still think there's not a lot of place for the cash gift in any of this.
I'm thinking of my own grandmother now. For years, every birthday and every Christmas there was a card with a check for $50 in it. I really couldn't tell you what I spent any of those checks on, but I still have the cards.
I'm sort of beginning to see these posts as gifts of a sort. Some people are giving gifts of solid gold ( Metaphorically speaking of course) and some are giving out lumps of coal, which by the way could be very useful to somebody who is cold and needs to warm up. Other gifts here are very burdensome. They can be like giving somebody an elephant to keep in their sitting room. Elephants are hard to handle, make a big mess and take up lots of space. A very unsensible gift to give. Some people are fantastic gift givers, others are really lousy at it.
I sure hope the folks who are so unhappy and quarrelsome around here can find some joy in their life. I'd sure like to give some of you who really need it the gift of joy. I'm not sure if this gift would be received graciously, but I'd still like to give it somehow if I could.
Jon and all the others who commented graciously here, you have my deepest thanks and respect.
Peace
Boatpiper
One of the cool things about live music is its ephemeral nature. Yet giving someone a tune can enhance their whole day. Or like me, send their life down a swirling bowl of pub sessions and house parties.... It's the gift that keeps on giving.
"I'm thinking of my own grandmother now. For years, every birthday and every Christmas there was a card with a check for $50 in it. I really couldn't tell you what I spent any of those checks on, but I still have the cards".
You could view this in different ways, I think. I have usually got the same kind of gift for birthdays and Christmas from my grandmother. I'd much rather get money from her than an unwanted gift which is a material object just taking up space - I appreciate a direct transfer into my account much more. In fact, from her point of view it could be viewed as being selfless because she hasn't given me anything concrete that should remind me of her - she's just given me the gift of something that will go some way towards helping me along in life. It's not needed (I can look after myself financially), but she knows it will help in some way: either I can use it to help insure my car so I can get to work or I can buy myself something I want and something I wouldn't usually justify buying for myself.
Your example of the guy in the session pub giving cash to the musicians instead of buying a round is weird because it's not the normal protocol in that social situation. On the other hand, it's normal for a grandparent to give money to their grandchildren. Just because that act is unusual in other social contexts does not make it something other than a gift IMO. It's all about intent and the willingness to accept something in the way that it was intended.
On playing for one's own pleasure, and not wishing to receive anything for it, I had intended to make the point of positioning:
In a park, for example, sitting on a bench next to the main traffic path would attract a different kind of attention than sitting in a more remote place.
This morning, six of us busked at the invitation of the organizer of a festival for local produce (blueberries) at a university and enjoyed ourselves as much as being at a session. We took a total of $3.50 in two hours, and none of us were at all disappointed. Lots of people heard us, some came closer to eat their blueberry pancakes, muffins, and blintzes, and the organizer was very pleased about the whole thing. The element of buskiness did not affect the occasion very much at all, from our perspective.
oldstrings, thinking upon your subject of positioning, It brings to mind a memory.
There is a park with a little creek and a bench along the waters edge where I like to sit and play. This is a park where generally people leave me to myself because you must venture away from the walkway to the creek.
I had been playing for about an hour.
When I stopped to pack the pipes away, a little kids voice from behind me said, "You're not leaving are you? We were enjoying it." I was a bit startled because I didn't expect anybody to be behind me. It was a mom and dad with their two kids. They apologised for coming close to intrude and listen without me knowing. I said, " certainly no need for an apology, I was glad they enjoyed it." Even thier two kids were quiet as could be until I'd begun to put the pipes away. They were probably the most attentive audience I've ever had the privilege to play for and I didn't even know they were there.
"Have you ever been in line when the person in front of you discovers they have no money on them, and you just pay for it, for them?"
I've been at the receiving end. I had just arrived in France by overnight ferry and had only a little loose change in Euros. When I found myself twenty cents short in the boulangerie (the only shop open at that time of the morning), the lady behind me kindly helped me out with the defecit. Of course, it was a wonderful welcome to a foreign country - and one not renowned for its cordiality towards its British neighbours. But - call me cynical - I couldn't help wondering whether she was really just getting impatient whilst I was trying to communicate falteringly in French and fumbling in my pockets for coins, and only paid the difference so that she would not be delayed any longer.
I'm just back from busking at my local farmer's market. Found a shady spot next to a couple selling homemade fudge. I made $14 in the first half hour, and ate a bunch of free fudge ( ), and then a woman cleared a space in the foot traffic in front of me and started step dancing to a set of reels I had launched into. She was quite good, floating high on all the leaps. That was better than money in the case.
I love a good step dancer too. So much so that I married her.
Sweet step dancing, sweet fudge, tunes in the shade, now there's some nice gifts. You're a lucky man Will.
Folks here may know that that Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore and Dark Isle have lyrics but I didn't until I played the former in a quiet pub in the west of Ireland, and the latter in a noisy local mall (BC,Canada); in each case various listeners came to sit with me and sing. The "old fella" (as he called himself) in the pub might have been nursing that one Guinness for the whole day; the folks in the mall (also elderly) are former pipers from Scotland. Music played publicly with joy can create community, and though I greatly appreciate the coinage, I do it anyway with or without. The older I get and the more music I play, the more I value its importance to my health and well-being, getting up there along with air and water!
"Music played publicly with joy can create community." How true. "With Joy" is the key to it.
I had a very interesting thing happen today at the same farmers market that I played at last weekend. As I walked over to my usual spot, I heard a saxophone. It was the Taiwanese couple who had asked me if I was a musician the week before. They had shown up before me and set up in my usual spot with amps cranked up LOUD! The guy was playing Stardust, at least I think that's what it was. Maybe a Taiwanese version of it or something. The lady was standing there waiting for people to throw money in the case and turning knobs on the amp. My heart sunk. Then they motioned to me as I walked by that I should come and sit in with him. I said sorry, That's not gonna work.
I went to the organisers table to let them know that I wasn't going to be able to sit in and play Taiwanese versions of Stardust with the guy and I turned to go.
Turns out the Taiwanese couple were just pimping me for info last weekend so they could move in on my spot and make off with the spoils. They obviously lacked any knowledge of busking etiquette. They were there for the money. 15 or 20 bucks maybe 30 on a really busy morning. It was kinda sad. I did notice that there was nothing in his open sax case though. His sax playing was a bit obnoxious to say the least.
As I walked back through the row of vendors I saw a friend who was selling wild mushrooms and greens in a booth with his wife. They saw me leaving and said "Please don't go, here just play next to our booth in this doorway. We'll be able to hear you." The doorway was positioned so I could barely hear the blaring sax. I figured I'd just play a few tunes for my friends and enjoy the morning anyhow.
After a while, I noticed the sax had stopped and pretty soon some people came and set a row of chairs up in front of me and then sat down to listen. Someone then told me that the Taiwanese sax couple had been told it was too loud and had to turn it down, he finally gave up and stopped playing. Pretty soon there was a big crowd gathering round me and it was going better than ever. The arched doorway had far better accoustics than my other spot. I couldn't believe it. It all turned into a blessing in disguise as the morning turned into one of the most joyful that I've had. Even made 27 bucks and a stack of wild greens and mushrooms.
Finally the Taiwanese guy came to sit down and listen. He remarked that his amp was too loud and that my pipes seemed to be a much better instrument for this type of thing. I told him that sax players can do quite well when busking if they know what they're doing. I tried to explain a little bit about buskers ettiquette with what they had done and why it had backfired on them. I don't think he understood a word I said. He did say that it was the first time he'd ever done anything like that. I wasn't quite sure what to think at that point. I just laughed and then played a couple hornpipes.
I did invite him to come play something on his sax, but he politely declined.
Wow, it was quite surreal. I just kept playing joyfully and the little kid sitting in front of me grinned from ear to ear. The Taiwanese guy seemed a bit bewildered.
Busking
Busking
I'm headed over to busk at the local farmers market today. One thing that I love is the folks who have never heard uilleann pipes or for that matter any trad at all. They get the funniest looks on their faces. Some just wander away bewildered, others come over and start asking questions as I attempt to finish a tune. There's always someone whose great grandfather played GHB. They say. "Wow those sound different. Those aren't bagpipes are they?" The little kids are the best, they just dance joyfully. It's so much fun to play the music here in the Nashville country rock and roll dominated US where sometimes, many people are completely unaware that ITM exists. It always seems to put a smile one everyones face no matter how perplexed they may be. Anyone got any good busking stories to share? Gotta go now, I'll read this upon my return.
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
Not so much about busking, but about kids and music - I was waiting for a bus one time, and this being Portland I was able to call the dial-a-bus line and find out that I had about fifteen minutes. So, having a whistle with me, I pulled it out to have a tune. I' was playing for a few minutes, and I saw this kid out of the corner of my eye, and I could sort of see that he was looking - not so much "joyful" as totally amazed. I kept playing, and he just looked completely puzzled, and finally I worked it out - this kid had probably never hear music that didn't come out of a box before. And by box, I don't mean an accordion, I mean a pair of speakers. He had no idea that people could do that!
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
To be Honest Boatpiper, I've never done much at the busking,But you carry on just what your doing there,, It's guy's like you that give ITM --
'' A GOOD NAME ''
jim,,,
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by FIDDLE4
Re: Busking
I don't have any stories but I've had more fun playing on the street,at campgrounds or on beaches at night than I've had playing sessions or gigs. At a session or a gig there's an air of familiarity but not so in an impromptu situation like busking. The last gig I played I had more fun in the alley playing with a kid who came to the show( he on my guitar, me on whistle) than I had at the show. That was the last gig I played. I quit when I realised it was no fun.
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by shanty
Re: Busking
Not busking, per se, but I've been playing my fiddle on my big front porch on Main Street lately, down on the island, and meet some interesting people, there being lots of visitors there this time of year.
The day after the 4th of July I was on the porch playing, as usual, and a big gang was walking by, stopped and asked me to play the Star Spangled Banner, which I obliged them with, figuring it out quickly by ear. The second time through I had them all sing along, which they did, splendidly. The funny thing was, half the group was from France.
Then the teenage girl in the group announced that she also played, so I handed her my fiddle and she played part of the Bach a-minor.
In all, it was a fun exchange for a Monday morning.
My mother always told me, 'Play an instrument and you'll always have friends," and she was right.
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Busking
It's good to hear that Oregon is busker-friendly. An English friend of mine tried busking in Florida many years ago and was threatened with arrest for 'soliciting' (which means something quite different in the UK, incidentally.). Fortunately, this seemed to be peculiar to the laws of that state and he did not experience the same thing anywhere else. Actually, I have another friend living in Eugene, Oregon, and from what she tells me, it's th kind of place where buskers would be appreciated.
For my bit, I've just been busking today in Richmond (Surrey, England, not Yorkshire, Virginia or British Columbia). Not a bad place, but, being a suburb or London as it is, it's hard to connect with people - a phenomenon I've come to associate with busking in large cities in general. The suburban coolness was, however, counterbalanced by an eccentric borderline-baglady (to use the proper clinical nomenclature) coming and dancing (having politely asked my permission), whilst mimicking the sound of my whistle.
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Busking
After busking on a street corner with a friend for 20 minutes in Delray Beach, Florida, I was once threatened with a court summons for violating a city ordinance whereby all street performers must audition before an assembled council, be approved by said council, submit a written account of repertoire to be reviewed and approved by said council, and be granted a performer's permit not to be used on any day other than the sanctioned date (usually coinciding with a city sponsored festival or holiday event).
Talk about over governance. Not bad for a state that calls itself the "State of the Arts."
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by gravelwalks
Re: Busking
"It's guy's like you that give ITM --
'' A GOOD NAME ''"
I'm not sure whether my fiddle playing gives Irish music a particularly good name (I was principally playing fiddle today, with a few tunes on whistle - mandolin's my usual weapon).
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Busking
Talk about differences of rule in different states, sheesh, the folks out here invited me to busk at their farmers market. Although I have had some difficulty with local ordinances in some places, I've never been threatened with arrest or court summons. Most places in Oregon, they really appreciate it.
I had a couple from Taiwan listen for quite a while today, between tunes the woman asked in broken english " Are you a musician?" I laughed and said "Nope not me, I never touch the stuff." They roared with laughter and gave me a tip. I think they really meant to ask "are you a paid professional musician" I don't think they understood when I told them I was busking but I managed to come up with a good impromptu joke.
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
I've done a fair bit of busking around Europe. In general, I have found that the best approach is to choose a spot I like, start playing an see what happens. If anyone tells me it's not allowed, I dutifully pack up, but ask, as politely as possible, if there is anywhere where it *is* allowed, whether I need a permit etc. If they do not co-operate, I drop the matter. But I have, on occasion, made specific enquiries at tourist information centres, about the local laws on busking.
One such occasion was in the delightfully named town of Middelfart, on the island of Fyn, Denmark. I can't remember why I chose to enquire, rather that just go ahead and play - perhaps I felt it was such a neat, well-kept town that an unkempt itinerant musician might offend it's municipal sensibilities. Clearly, my hunch was correct, as the lady at the tourist desk informed me that I did, indeed, need permission to busk, which I could obtain from the police headquarters, located in the town hall. I went to the town hall, ascended several flights of stairs, navigated a maze of corridors and found the chief of police sitting behind a traditional wooden desk.
Having established that we had a language in common, I stated my reason for being there. He then proceeded to interrogate me in perfect English - Where was I from? What instrument did I play? What kind of music? Where and when did I intend to play? How long did I intend to stay? Of course, I was only passing through and had no intention of staying more than one night (or, if the busking was particularly good, perhaps 2 nights). I told him this and he responded, in a matter-of-fact tone, " In that case, I won't give you permission to play." I was quite taken aback by this, as I had assumed the 'interview' was just a formality, to establish I was not a 'bad sort' or some such like, and that there could not be any reasonable objection to my playing. In fact, I was left in some uncertainty as to whether what he actually meant to say was, since I would only be there for one day, I was free to busk without being issued an official permit. But it seemed a bit too complicated to try and clarify this. So, to play safe, I chose not to give myself the benefit of the doubt, and left town somewhat dejected. I subsequently had several days and nights of good busking in the rather more cosmopolitan town of Odense.
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Busking
I used to busk in the lovely city of Bath. At that time I played accordion. One day an elderly lady walked past, then stopped, came back and stood for a minute looking intently at my face. Then in an angry and accusing voice she said "you're not blind at all!", and stormed off.
# Posted on July 11th 2010 by Bernie 29
Re: Busking
Bernie, that's hilarious! What did you say to her? I'd probably just start laughing and not know what to say... until an hour later.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by justwhistle
Re: Busking
"Blind? No, but I am short a testicle." That would sort her out.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
I used to keep my box under my desk at work, and on nice days I'd go out to the park near my office and play a few tunes at lunch. There were a few good encounters there. One, sort of bizarre, was the guy who walked by and stood in front of me, acting like he wanted to tell me something, until I cut off the set to see what he was on about. He said to me "man, you're great- don't ever let anyone make you stop playing!". I didn't point out that that's exactly what he'd just done...
A more straightforwardly pleasant encounter was the Vietnamese lady, in her middle sixties, I'd guess, who tried to put money in my case. This despite the fact that it was closed. I told her, no, I'm just practising, and we got into a nice conversation. She apologized for her poor English - but as it was her fourth or fifth language, it was understandable!
One thing she told me was that she played the piano, a little. "I'm not very good, but it makes me so happy!" I told her I feel the same.
You do meet some interesting people, playing music...
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
Will, probably TMI, but in my case short one testicle would be true.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
I never refuse money for playing tunes Jon. The economy is way too rough these days to turn down a buck. But I'd prefer meeting an interesting person over a buck anytime. Interesting people are far more worthwhile than money. Better yet, if an interesting person offers me a buck to play a tune....well....I have no shame I guess.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
I go to Golden Gate park and play tunes on the rare occasion when it's too hot to play in my flat. I always end up meeting someone interesting... sometimes Irish tourists are interested and want to find out where in Ireland I'm from... until I open my mouth that is. But I wouldn't call what I do "busking" since I never put out any sort of receptacle for donations. People sometimes place dollar bills around creatively, and I often hand them back explaining I'm just there to enjoy the cool air and scenery as I practice tunes. Once two lovely young girls tried to give me cash and I handed it back with the explanation... and they stood for a while listening, and then waved and continued on their way. About 20 minutes later they returned with flowers they found and, with a smile, placed them on my flute case. That was worth far more than the cash they offered the first time... and I gratefully accepted.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Phantom Button
Re: Busking
That's really nice that they enjoyed your playing so much that when you refused their first gift they searched and found something you'd be happy with. They were very thoughtful people.
I find when people offer me something be it money, conversation, a beer, or in Phantoms case flowers, that it is ungrateful and rude to refuse them the opportunity to give. When you deny someone the opportunity to give a it is a passive put down of sorts. When you refuse someones gift you are basically telling them that you can't be bothered with accepting something from them. I am always grateful to accept someones gift. Almost as grateful as when they accept a gift from me.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
If someone really insists on throwing me a dollar, I won't say no. It's just that I want it to be clear that that's not why I'm out there, that they can listen without bothering about the dollar. So I'll say thanks for the thought, but it's really not necessary. Sort of like if a neighbor goes away for a week, and you feed their cat for them while they're gone. If they offered to pay me for that, I'd try to find some polite way of letting them know that I'm doing that because I'm their neighbor, and the idea of being paid was not in my mind.
On the other hand, if they were to find some sort of token thing - a bottle of wine, a loaf of bread - I'd take that gladly, and enjoy it, and feel a little closer to them after that interchange, which is not an exchange.
To get into the philosophical, perhaps over my head, there's something about cash money that (to me) defeats the idea of a gift. A gift is not the thing given, it's the act of sharing. Cash cannot be shared - either I spend it, or you do. A dollar is mine, or it's yours, or it's fifty cents for me and fifty cents for you, but it's never ours. A bottle of wine is shared - you give me a bottle of wine, you're wishing me a very particular sort of happiness. You give me flowers, you're passing on a concrete aesthetic experience which then links us, weakly perhaps, but in a much more lasting way than a similar sum of money. The wine, or the flowers, then, are ours, while the dollar is first yours, then mine.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
I see the money as a gift thing as a shallow gift to give too, but, I still see it as a kind offering that I need not turn down.
My neighbor brought a loaf of homemade banana bread over after I loaned her my shop vac. I can't imagine her offering a dollar for the loan of a shop vac. She never would offer a dollar. Banana bread is a heartfelt gift.
I've played music with and for them many times in exchange of friendship, a shared meal, a glass of wine.
It's funny how money has taken the place of what could be a beautiful exchange of things in some circumstances.
Music for instance.
Once a standard is set, people go with the standard. I would gladly accept the flowers as soon as a dollar for a tune but the standard exchange of things must be dealt with first. Much the same way Phantom, in a round about way, changed the standard with the girls.
Now whenever they hear him play in the park they'll bring flowers. But, rest assured, there will be many more folks who will offer a dollar and feel uncomfortable when it is refused. People like to show their appreciation. It's a human trait. That's the standard. Even if it is a shallow dollar, it's still a grateful show of appreciation.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
I hear ya, Boatpiper, but I think what I was hoping to get away from was the idea that people listening to the music felt they had to contribute money just because they enjoyed the music. Anywhere else in this city where people play in public there's an underlying expectation that you donate money if you're enjoying the music or whatever it is they're doing. I wanted to give them something back in the way of not having to feel bad about not giving me money... but maybe that's too much in my own head and more for me than for them. I have done a fair mount of busking in the financial district, and made some good money doing it, but sitting in the park to escape the heat of my flat was different. I thought it would be nice to offer the music to anyone who happened by and enjoyed it... without expectations of donations... would be a nice gesture. The two young women seemed to get it.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Phantom Button
Re: Busking
I confess to being an out-and-out, in-it-for-the-money busker. Not that there's much money to be had, just that I can't get it together to earn a steady income by more conventional means and it provides a useful supplement to my various other trickles of income. But, whilst every coin that drops into my case provides some sense of achievement, the *enjoyment* comes from the smiles, the skips and dances of passers by, the compliments, the conversations, discovering a new variation, remembering a long-forgotten tune, feeling that I am playing better than last year. During yesterday's busking, a waiter from a nearby cafe, who seemed to be distributing promotional drinks to members of the public, gave me a small cup of iced green tea with peppermint; I enjoyed sipping it far more than I would have enjoyed receiving its value in brass.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Busking
I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that cold hard cash seldom offends me. Not that I'd object to the flowers, or indeed any other, more personalised, version of a present.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Crackpot
Re: Busking
On the flip side of the coin (pun intended) Just the act of someone lending an ear and giving some of their time to listen attentively is an honor of thanks as well. Phantom, your observation about folks feeling obligated to pay is an important factor. That's the standard that has been set for them and it's too bad. Nobody should have to feel obligated to pay for tunes that are freely being shared for enjoyment in the park. That steals the charm from the gift of tunes that we musicians have to give. But when they are moved by what they hear in a way that they feel a desire to give something in thanks, well that's alot different from the notion of an expected payment just because they happened upon a busker. Nobody should be, or for that matter, ever is obligated to pay, or even give an attentive ear to a busker.
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
"On the other hand, if they were to find some sort of token thing - a bottle of wine, a loaf of bread - I'd take that gladly, and enjoy it, and feel a little closer to them after that interchange, which is not an exchange."
I agree completely with the philosophy, Jon, but we have entered into the cash standard, in part, because it is more convenient than carrying wine or flowers around.
I find that location and positioning can make it fairly clear what the expectations are, apart from having an obvious receptacle in place. Sometimes I do get food or flowers in my banjo case, especially at markets! At least it provides a place to leave expressions of appreciation.
Some people will stay far away from anyone who appears to be "soliciting", perhaps having experienced aggressive panhandlers ( "Spare change, man?") I like to have the case visible, but off to the side, so it does not interfere with personal
communication. If a vessel is not available, I find that there can be more interruptions from passersby who are not clear on what one is doing. Of course, if your goal is to strike up conversations...
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: Busking
Oldstrings - all of that was essentially to get us away from the idea of a "gift" which seems inappropriate for the case at hand, for the reasons explained. The wine or flowers was more related to the cat-sitting example - you'd be reluctant to accept cash from a neighbor for a simple neighborly favor, but you'd be happy to take an actual gift. The point being that cash isn't a gift, properly speaking, and people who give cash as a gift are confused about what constitutes a gift in the first place, so Boatpiper's admonition was incorrect.
That's the philosophy part. For the concrete part, if you're actually busking, yes, you expect cash money as a (voluntary) fee for a (voluntary) service, and you provide a place to deposit that fee. If you're not busking, but just sitting outside playing a few tunes, it's reasonable to alert people to that fact when they try to put dollars in your case - especially when you're resting your feet on the case at the time!
# Posted on July 12th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
gravelwalks That's a sad story, Is that a real place? love to see what's on the approved list. .
# Posted on July 13th 2010 by edorian
Re: Busking
You pay $20 to park your car a $39 late fee and interest on everything. A few dollars for something meaningful is the least someone can do for such a gift
# Posted on July 13th 2010 by edorian
Re: Busking
Jon, in certain circumstances I do suppose that there is misconception about wheather or not cash can actually be a gift.
But I think it is also a misconception to say in black and white terms that it cannot ever be considered a gift.
Even when I was a kid, my grandma would sneak a quarter into an unexpected place for us to find as hidden treasure or sometimes she'd put it in a card, or, likewise even just give us kids a hug and a kiss and hand us a quarter all the same. Are you going to say that my grandma was paying me to be her grandchild? No, of course not, nobody would say that.
Consider this.
During the late 1800's when my grandma was a little girl in Norway, children would scarecely ever have their hands on even as much as a penny. So then, after stuggling her whole life, immigrating to America, surviving the great depression, there she was, an old lady in her 80's able to hand her grandchildren each quarter and sometimes even a dollar.
It gave her a great sense of achievement to even think of doing such a thing.
This is the type of thing that happens when people have a true appreciation for what it means to work hard for your money, to rise from poverty to find success within your own lifetime. Has money become so worthless to us that we should not condider it valuable as a gift?
We have been spoiled as children of wealth in the way my grandma never knew as a child. Money was and still is a very important thing for survival. For her to give you some really did mean that she loved us in a way that we will never know. It was all a show of love and gratitude and she enjoyed giving us a quarter or even a dollar because what 6 year old doesn't love getting that all for their own. It made for some fond memories for all of us. So I think you may be a bit overly firm in your stance that cash can never be considered as a gift. I don't believe my admonition to be completely wrong at all. Even though I do consider money to be a somewhat shallow gift, to my grandma, it was one of the greatest gifts of all and I would never have dreamed of insulting her by refusing her gift.
# Posted on July 13th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
That's a great story, bp, and I think it proves my point somewhat. The point being, of course, that a gift is not simply a thing of value, but a thing shared, and typically money is not shared. In this case, however, it was a token - the important thing was your grandmother, not the coin.
It's not that money is worthless, it's precisely the opposite. The worth of money is in the fact that it's fungible, you can exchange it for anything, as long as you've got enough of it. But that's what makes it not a gift, since it's really not anything in particular, and simply makes your spending power greater.
Since we're in story time, here's one. My friend Dan and I both enjoy whisk[e]ys of various sorts, and when we shared a house we had quite a collection. For years we'd mark birthdays by giving each other bottles of something interesting. Now, since we both spent about the same amount on those bottles, you could say (as an analytical economist) that we might as well have simply bought our own bottles, and then we'd have more utility from them, since we'd be buying exactly what we wanted, or we'd have done better to give each other the cost of a bottle. (his birthday precedes mine by two months, so essentially it would be me loaning him $50 for two months) Since all three of these options work out to the same outcome, how is it that one is a gift and the others are not? To my mind, value (in the sense of price) is not what makes a gift.
# Posted on July 13th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
Jon, I suppose you have every right to consider what can be used as a gift and what is not a gift within what it means to you, just as do I too, as well as my grandma did.
Perceptions within each individual persons mind develop as well as shift over time. Sometimes becoming molded like a brick, other times flowing fluid as water when our minds are effected by the things we each experience.
Within my experience, I consider money to be a gift when used as a token of appreciation, love or gratitude. For true love, appreciation and gratitude cannot be bought or sold. These things are truly priceless. So when money is given as a token of this it must be considered a gift in my mind.
Tis also true as you say, that value, (in the sense of price) is definately not what makes a gift.
However, If I were to buy a set of pipes from you, then I see money as a means of purchasing a set of pipes. I can haggle the price down. We all know that is what doing buisness is. It's how money was intended to be used for commerce.
In the case of me giving you a gift of a dollar because I appreciate your friendship, would you turn it down if that was what I considered to be a token to show that I appreciate you as a friend, though, as strange as the offering may be?
I used to feel a little strange when grandma gave me a quarter sometimes, but that's just because I don't see money as being the same thing that she saw it to be. But I understood that she enjoyed giving me a quarter because she loved me and saw that I knew it. That was her way. Just like you see it differently too, that's your way.
A gift is really more about the person giving it than the person receiving it, because, as the old saying goes, tis better to give than to receive.
# Posted on July 13th 2010 by Gone to work
When our paths cross someday,
I'll make sure to give you a tune, or a loaf of bread.
My grandma might give you a quarter.
If she likes you that is.
# Posted on July 13th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
If she really likes you, she'll hide it in your mitten for you to find in the morning.
# Posted on July 13th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
"A gift is really more about the person giving it than the person receiving it, because, as the old saying goes, tis better to give than to receive."
We really give the giver a gift by graciously receiving it.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Busking
Sara, that's a profound observation.
"Graciously recieving a gift is a gift in itself."
Sounds like something Confusious would have said.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
Sorry, bp, I missed your post above. Must have come in before or among the massive silliness about "diddly".
Let me say, I'm not trying to make some normative case that one "should not" consider this, that, or the other thing a "proper gift". What I'm trying to do is more of an exercise in linguistic philosophy - trying to unpack the way we use words and consider situations to try to reveal something about the way the world is.
And likewise, even if I find it a little odd, I am in fact capable of understanding the spirit behind a gift, accepting the gift for its intent. That is, I wouldn't sneer at someone for giving a gift that didn't come up to my expectations. What I'm more interested in is how it comes that someone can, as it seems to me, confuse two totally separate transactions. A "gift", it seems to me, is necessarily personal. If I don't know someone, giving them a "gift" is a farce, because the point of a gift is to recognize some inherent connection between two people, and to find the token that most reflects that unity. It's really more of a ritual, complete with its fetish (old sense, not the modern sense!) to bind the the spell.
And in that sense, your grandmother's gifts fall right in, even more so than some trinket she might have given you, because she managed to impress the quarter so thoroughly into you that it's still with you, years later.
To refer to pressing a dollar onto someone who's playing music as a "gift", then, to me seems a little like telling a Catholic you're going to go down to the church to get a glass of wine. Yes, you would get a little wine out of the deal, but it's rather far from the point.
Here's another story: Some time ago, one of the members here mentioned a fan of the diddly music who was a regular listener at his session. This old feller, it seems, was in the habit of buying a round for the musicians, since the bar wasn't in that habit. And he did this every week, it seems, for quite a while, and perhaps still does. That is a lovely gesture, and I see no reason not to call it a gift. Now, imagine the same gentleman coming in every week, and handing each of the players cash equivalent to the price of a pint. Same economic transaction, except the money is MORE useful - it's fungible, you can have the pint or anything else of equivalent value - but I think we'd all find that sort of weird. More than sort of, especially if it happened every week. The guy might still be nice, but he'd also be considered a little mad.
And that's the difference I'm trying to get at.
Maybe this is a fiddling distinction that makes no difference, but to me it seems to say a lot about what gifts are, and what they're not. Maybe it's important to think about this sort of stuff - or maybe not. Anyway, to me it's much more interesting than the other big discussions we've seen today.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
Jon, I like the distinction you're making. But can't a genuine gift between strangers recognize "some inherent connection" between them, simply as human beings?
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
Interesting, the online etymological dictionary says the word "gift" is related to an old German term for "dowry." Which certainly fits more with your explication of this, Jon.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
Will - you may be right. Give me a story, though. For me, gifts are so much about knowing the person that what you're talking about might be (for me, not necessarily for you) a different sort of a thing. Still a fine thing, and one I'd like to see more of, but different. Maybe if you give me a good case to consider, it'll make more sense to me your way.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
Ooops - this conversation is not thread-safe. My last post is responding to the "genuine gift between strangers" post.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
I'm thinking of the "random act of kindness" sort of thing. Leaving a $20 inside a public library copy of a self-help book, say.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
Or going to play some tunes at an old folks home, or a children's hospital, just because.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
Here in my hometown, every year, some anonymous person leaves a $20 gold coin in one of the Salvation Army kettles put out around Christmas. That sort of thing. Have you ever been in line when the person in front of you discovers they have no money on them, and you just pay for it, for them? Total strangers. Simple stuff. Makes their whole day.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
Okay, returning to the land of the serious.
Will - I like your last example, because it's a personal encounter between two people, and it's one that they will probably both carry away with them. (The dollar in the busker's case, in contrast, is eminently forgettable - it's usually forgotten by both parties as soon as it happens)
What I think distinguishes it from the gift, as I see it, is that your example is motivated by an immediate need. A gift, for me, is more gratuitious. (There's more etymology for you!)
But there is a gift there, if you like. It's not the money, it's the willingness to intervene on a stranger's behalf.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
Ah, the gratuitous gift.
A great gift to give.
When I was a teenager, I got mixed up with a troupe of amateur clowns. These were guys and gals who all worked at the same company, and they'd hit on the idea that it would be fun to learn some circus skills and express their collective sense of humor. A son of one of them happened to be my best friend. We both learned to juggle and ride unicycles, so before you know it, we were both conscripted into the troupe. (Of course, the company got wind of the whole thing and bought a classy antique fire truck so they could get publicity out of it at parades. But that's another discussion.)
The main thing these clowns did was go to the Philadelphia Childrens Hospital and a couple of local homes for developmentally disabled folks and just mingle with the people, making balloon animals, teaching them how to juggle scarves, doing little magic tricks, and generally giving people a good healthy laugh.
While there might have been an "immediate need," we quickly got past that and simply gave the gift of some lighthearted fun for an hour or two.
Playing music where people can overhear often works the same way and gives a similar sort of lift to peoples' day. Seems gratuitous, eh?
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
I think that one of the gifts of busking or clowning or anything that creates a little bit of art in the world is to show people that life doesn't have to be a spectator sport. When I go to the park or stand on a street and play with a couple of friends, I show people that you don't have to be a professional to play an instrument. (Boy howdy, do I....) Yes, folks, YOU can play music. Go out and buy a banjo. Turn off the TV and do some human interaction stuff. Quit consuming and make something. I am a street-corner revolutionary. Power to the band geeks who never grew up!
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: Busking
Batlady, that's the real gift, isn't it--giving people an opportunity to participate in life instead of letting it pass them by.
). Over the years, our local sesh has picked up new participants for just this reason--they see people making music just for fun, and they go buy a penny whistle or dig the old "violin" out of the closet, and soon they're at the weekly tune learning session. Before you know it, they're sitting in at the pub on Thursday nights, part of the circle. Now *that's* a gratuitous gift to bestow on someone! 
Sessions tend to work that way too, when local people see their friends and neighbors making music and having a good time, without any pretense of being professionals (or even rehearsed!
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
There you go. So I'm convinced.
Thinking about all of this, it strikes me that, in addition to being gratuitous, the best gifts are also trivial and/or ephemeral. A bottle of wine lasts as long as it takes to drink it, flowers brighten up the room for a few days. A stuffed animal or other tchotchke doesn't change your life in any economically measurable way. But the wine or the flowers cement a friendship, the stuffed animal or the tchotchke makes it concrete. And your examples are right in line with that, except that they don't require a pre-existing friendship.
It seems I wasn't thinking broadly enough on the matter.
However, I still think there's not a lot of place for the cash gift in any of this.
I'm thinking of my own grandmother now. For years, every birthday and every Christmas there was a card with a check for $50 in it. I really couldn't tell you what I spent any of those checks on, but I still have the cards.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Busking
I'm sort of beginning to see these posts as gifts of a sort. Some people are giving gifts of solid gold ( Metaphorically speaking of course) and some are giving out lumps of coal, which by the way could be very useful to somebody who is cold and needs to warm up. Other gifts here are very burdensome. They can be like giving somebody an elephant to keep in their sitting room. Elephants are hard to handle, make a big mess and take up lots of space. A very unsensible gift to give. Some people are fantastic gift givers, others are really lousy at it.
I sure hope the folks who are so unhappy and quarrelsome around here can find some joy in their life. I'd sure like to give some of you who really need it the gift of joy. I'm not sure if this gift would be received graciously, but I'd still like to give it somehow if I could.
Jon and all the others who commented graciously here, you have my deepest thanks and respect.
Peace
Boatpiper
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
One of the cool things about live music is its ephemeral nature. Yet giving someone a tune can enhance their whole day. Or like me, send their life down a swirling bowl of pub sessions and house parties.... It's the gift that keeps on giving.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
Ahoy matey, it's a good thread you started!
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
Glad to hear from ya Will old boyo.
I believe I have a tune here in me head that you gave me a couple years ago.
Many thanks.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
"I'm thinking of my own grandmother now. For years, every birthday and every Christmas there was a card with a check for $50 in it. I really couldn't tell you what I spent any of those checks on, but I still have the cards".
You could view this in different ways, I think. I have usually got the same kind of gift for birthdays and Christmas from my grandmother. I'd much rather get money from her than an unwanted gift which is a material object just taking up space - I appreciate a direct transfer into my account much more. In fact, from her point of view it could be viewed as being selfless because she hasn't given me anything concrete that should remind me of her - she's just given me the gift of something that will go some way towards helping me along in life. It's not needed (I can look after myself financially), but she knows it will help in some way: either I can use it to help insure my car so I can get to work or I can buy myself something I want and something I wouldn't usually justify buying for myself.
Your example of the guy in the session pub giving cash to the musicians instead of buying a round is weird because it's not the normal protocol in that social situation. On the other hand, it's normal for a grandparent to give money to their grandchildren. Just because that act is unusual in other social contexts does not make it something other than a gift IMO. It's all about intent and the willingness to accept something in the way that it was intended.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by Dr. Dow
Re: Busking
Now why couldnt I start a thread that would turn out to be as lovely as this.lol!
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by big_tab
Re: Busking
On playing for one's own pleasure, and not wishing to receive anything for it, I had intended to make the point of positioning:
In a park, for example, sitting on a bench next to the main traffic path would attract a different kind of attention than sitting in a more remote place.
This morning, six of us busked at the invitation of the organizer of a festival for local produce (blueberries) at a university and enjoyed ourselves as much as being at a session. We took a total of $3.50 in two hours, and none of us were at all disappointed. Lots of people heard us, some came closer to eat their blueberry pancakes, muffins, and blintzes, and the organizer was very pleased about the whole thing. The element of buskiness did not affect the occasion very much at all, from our perspective.
# Posted on July 14th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: Busking
oldstrings, thinking upon your subject of positioning, It brings to mind a memory.
There is a park with a little creek and a bench along the waters edge where I like to sit and play. This is a park where generally people leave me to myself because you must venture away from the walkway to the creek.
I had been playing for about an hour.
When I stopped to pack the pipes away, a little kids voice from behind me said, "You're not leaving are you? We were enjoying it." I was a bit startled because I didn't expect anybody to be behind me. It was a mom and dad with their two kids. They apologised for coming close to intrude and listen without me knowing. I said, " certainly no need for an apology, I was glad they enjoyed it." Even thier two kids were quiet as could be until I'd begun to put the pipes away. They were probably the most attentive audience I've ever had the privilege to play for and I didn't even know they were there.
# Posted on July 15th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
"Have you ever been in line when the person in front of you discovers they have no money on them, and you just pay for it, for them?"
I've been at the receiving end. I had just arrived in France by overnight ferry and had only a little loose change in Euros. When I found myself twenty cents short in the boulangerie (the only shop open at that time of the morning), the lady behind me kindly helped me out with the defecit. Of course, it was a wonderful welcome to a foreign country - and one not renowned for its cordiality towards its British neighbours. But - call me cynical - I couldn't help wondering whether she was really just getting impatient whilst I was trying to communicate falteringly in French and fumbling in my pockets for coins, and only paid the difference so that she would not be delayed any longer.
# Posted on July 15th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Busking
I'm just back from busking at my local farmer's market. Found a shady spot next to a couple selling homemade fudge. I made $14 in the first half hour, and ate a bunch of free fudge (
), and then a woman cleared a space in the foot traffic in front of me and started step dancing to a set of reels I had launched into. She was quite good, floating high on all the leaps. That was better than money in the case.
# Posted on July 17th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Busking
I love a good step dancer too. So much so that I married her.
Sweet step dancing, sweet fudge, tunes in the shade, now there's some nice gifts. You're a lucky man Will.
# Posted on July 17th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Busking
Folks here may know that that Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore and Dark Isle have lyrics but I didn't until I played the former in a quiet pub in the west of Ireland, and the latter in a noisy local mall (BC,Canada); in each case various listeners came to sit with me and sing. The "old fella" (as he called himself) in the pub might have been nursing that one Guinness for the whole day; the folks in the mall (also elderly) are former pipers from Scotland. Music played publicly with joy can create community, and though I greatly appreciate the coinage, I do it anyway with or without. The older I get and the more music I play, the more I value its importance to my health and well-being, getting up there along with air and water!
# Posted on July 18th 2010 by khandro
Re: Busking
"Music played publicly with joy can create community." How true. "With Joy" is the key to it.
I had a very interesting thing happen today at the same farmers market that I played at last weekend. As I walked over to my usual spot, I heard a saxophone. It was the Taiwanese couple who had asked me if I was a musician the week before. They had shown up before me and set up in my usual spot with amps cranked up LOUD! The guy was playing Stardust, at least I think that's what it was. Maybe a Taiwanese version of it or something. The lady was standing there waiting for people to throw money in the case and turning knobs on the amp. My heart sunk. Then they motioned to me as I walked by that I should come and sit in with him. I said sorry, That's not gonna work.
I went to the organisers table to let them know that I wasn't going to be able to sit in and play Taiwanese versions of Stardust with the guy and I turned to go.
Turns out the Taiwanese couple were just pimping me for info last weekend so they could move in on my spot and make off with the spoils. They obviously lacked any knowledge of busking etiquette. They were there for the money. 15 or 20 bucks maybe 30 on a really busy morning. It was kinda sad. I did notice that there was nothing in his open sax case though. His sax playing was a bit obnoxious to say the least.
As I walked back through the row of vendors I saw a friend who was selling wild mushrooms and greens in a booth with his wife. They saw me leaving and said "Please don't go, here just play next to our booth in this doorway. We'll be able to hear you." The doorway was positioned so I could barely hear the blaring sax. I figured I'd just play a few tunes for my friends and enjoy the morning anyhow.
After a while, I noticed the sax had stopped and pretty soon some people came and set a row of chairs up in front of me and then sat down to listen. Someone then told me that the Taiwanese sax couple had been told it was too loud and had to turn it down, he finally gave up and stopped playing. Pretty soon there was a big crowd gathering round me and it was going better than ever. The arched doorway had far better accoustics than my other spot. I couldn't believe it. It all turned into a blessing in disguise as the morning turned into one of the most joyful that I've had. Even made 27 bucks and a stack of wild greens and mushrooms.
Finally the Taiwanese guy came to sit down and listen. He remarked that his amp was too loud and that my pipes seemed to be a much better instrument for this type of thing. I told him that sax players can do quite well when busking if they know what they're doing. I tried to explain a little bit about buskers ettiquette with what they had done and why it had backfired on them. I don't think he understood a word I said. He did say that it was the first time he'd ever done anything like that. I wasn't quite sure what to think at that point. I just laughed and then played a couple hornpipes.
I did invite him to come play something on his sax, but he politely declined.
Wow, it was quite surreal. I just kept playing joyfully and the little kid sitting in front of me grinned from ear to ear. The Taiwanese guy seemed a bit bewildered.
# Posted on July 19th 2010 by Gone to work