The worst is when you hare turning the key so slowly and its almost perfectly in tune then you hear the squeaky click sound as the string slips and ends up going wildly out of tune.
Here are some tips for easing your tuning troubles.
Rub a pencil point over the strings where they go through the slots on the nut and on the bridge. The graphite will lubricate the grooves and keep the strings from sticking, only to suddenly release when you're tuning. Smooth grooves equal smoother tuning process.
Tune one string of the pair first, then tune the neighboring string to that. Do each pair this way.
Expect to tune all 8 strings up once, then go back through to adjust for retensioning as the top adjusts to string tensions.
If these basics don't seem to help, then make sure your bridge is set in the right place (check the harmonics at the 12th fret against the open strings--should be within 1 or 2 cents of each other).
Put new strings on every 120 to 150 hours of playing.
The trick is to select the factory preset lock-in tuning option (they won't tell you this, so you have to ask for it) when you buy your mandolin at the music store. It costs a little more, but the tuning is locked-in and guaranteed to stay in tune for the life of the instrument.
Check out the type of tuning machines or gears on the head stock. If it's the old gears type, maybe tighten the screw which will not allow the string to untune as fast. If it's a sealed machine tuner like Schaller, Gotoh, or such, then it may be in the angle and/or intensity of your pick attack on (in this case) your A string(s). Is the one going out of tune on the A string closer to the D string? Then maybe your picking stroke is uneven, hitting the first A string harder or more predominantly than the A string closer to the E string. If the A string is closer to the E string that's going out, maybe your uppicking is harder on that string than the A string closest to the D string.
Consider the angle of pick attack being the culprit. Is your picking stroke parallel to the plane of the strings, or more at an acute angle? This might clear the mystery up a bit. Analysis of your technique might solve the problem.
You also have to put your strings on correctly. True for all fretted instruments, but the mandolin is especially touchy.
The important thing is to keep manual tension on the string from the moment you begin to tighten the tuning peg until it's tight enough to hold a pitch. This ensures that you're taking up the slack the whole time, and you don't have slippage on the peg or at the tailpiece. I find it helps to wind the string two or three times around the peg before inserting the free end into the peg, this helps everything settle in nicely.
If you just stick the string into the hole and start winding, there's far too much slack on the string at the start, so you end up with a lot of slippage on the tuning peg itself, because it's not wound tightly there.
What Jon says about string slippage applies equally well to the fiddle. In the past I've fitted a new string to my old cello (similar in size to the bigger guitars, so some relevance here) which has old and shiny pegs, keeping the tension on manually, as Jon says, only to find that the string kept slipping until on one annoying occasion it slipped off the peg. This may have had something to do with the covering at the peg end of one particular make of steel strings - it almost never happened with synthetic core, and if it did it wasn't for long and it would bind in position soon enough.
I found the solution to the problem was to rub a little rosin (a very small amount) from my bow onto that peg-end covering - no more slipping, and a string that would stay in tune virtually from the word go.
I've sometimes used the same technique when fitting fiddle strings.
If your strings are wound onto the pegs properly, then 9 times out of 10 the problem is at the nut slot, and it's usually the A strings.
If it's a cheap mandolin you aren't risking much by buying a few spare nuts (ooh err missus) and experimenting with different width and depth of slots.
But first, in addition to the graphite pencil trick described by Will, just wiggle the strings either side of the nut with your finger to help them equalise tension - that often solves it.
You'll still need to adjust it now and then as the arched top expands and contracts with temperature or whatever. Jimmy Moon style flat tops are less prone to this.
Mandolin is the sweetest sound of all when it's tuned sympathetically, it's a pity that the more raucous fiddles and flutes at a session seldom leave space for it
I guess it's really a "parlour instrument",....
With all strings that fit to round pegs it's important that the string fits round the peg a minimum of three times for wound strings and 4 + for plain especially on high tension instruments as this is needed to hold the tension. If you don't get enough turns the tension is fighting the gears and just exacerbating the problem. With enough turns the tension just pulls the peg and can't unwind it, even with cheapie machine heads.
When it comes to strings slipping on the tuner posts, just putting lots of turns on often isn't enough, particularly with the A and E string on mandolins. Thread the string through the hole, then take the free end back round and thread it behind the playing end, upwards from below. Wind a bit of tension onto the string, then give the free end a yank upwards to kink it where it is trapped by the playing end. It will never slip.
As to sticky nuts, the problem is almost always caused by the nut groove being V shaped instead of U, and as the string pulls down it gets trapped in the V. The real solution is to cut the nut grooves using proper nut files, but they are very expensive. Putting graphite in the grooves will temporarily help, but a better 'quick fix' is to get an old string and some sort of fine abrasive - either scouring cream or toothpaste work - Put some paste in the groove and repeatedly pull the string back and forth through it until it has worn a shoulder in the groove that fits the string.
Yep skreech, a locking turn, the way strings are meant to be fitted.
As to slotting files, worth it if you can afford it, just don't make them too deep as that can rob the tone/volume. The old string slotting technique has served me well over the years ; )
When I'm feeling rich I fit FlatTop A's (flat wound) great tone and way more stable than the standard bare wire. They cost but I can usually leave them on when restringing the rest, I wish Dedario would do them as singles..............
Hey SS, first stringed instrument I bought, was a Mandolin & I was tempted to get one of those cheap & nasty E. European jobs they were churning out back then, but I thought better of it & saved up for a better quality Japanese round backed job. It wasn't loud, but it had a pleasant tone & at least the machine heads worked properly!
I learned loads of great tunes on that first wee Mandolin. It was an excellent instrument for a string player to get started on IMHO & being the honest & reliable sort of bloke I am, I've stayed faithful to them ever since.
I must say I hate this Duh kind of Macho attitude you get from some musicians, whether it be looking back down their noses at instruments they first learned on, like Mandolins, or more commonly Whistles, or scoffing & snobbily heading for the Bar, when tunes they learned when they first got interested in this music, are played. Of course, it say much, much more about them than the instruments, or tunes.
Perhaps they'd like to try scoffing when Enda plays Mandolin or Mary plays Whistle, or Jackie plays cracking versions of some of those so-called "entry level" Polkas!
Everyone has touched on one or other of the likely problems;
string winding; I always do one turn ABOVE where the string goes through the hole in the capstan, and then cross over to under the string hole,leading the string with a light tension so that as it winds each turn is lower on the capstan and so increasing the tension against the free end of the string to hold it tight.
tuning machines; there are definitely grades of tuners, and if you have the cheapest then you can't expect the same performance as if you have individual mini-Schallers or whatever; cheapest tuners on a single plate about £10; what's a set of individuals cost ?
nut problems; it's worth looking at this closely to reduce problems.
old strings; if you have an old set nothing will ever seem right; change them more frequently; you may be surprised at the difference it makes.
Maybe you just need to upgrade to a new mando anyway; maybe you've outgrown the old one.
"Maybe you just need to upgrade to a new mando anyway; maybe you've outgrown the old one."
Whilst there is undoubtedly a learning/getting to know a new instrument curve especially with the pesky mandolin, Pete's point above is a good one...............
But then finding a new one is a different headache altogether but worth it in the end...
Well it is a problem and there are many good tips given above. The mandolin I started on was an old Suzuki, beautifully made but bright red and not loud. It doesn't go out of tune, and I hardly play it now, but I pick it up occasionally and I'm amazed it's still in tune. The next one was a Czech one (a Pavlu) and that is nicely constructed out of solid woods but had the cheapest possible machine heads and tailpiece. I replaced the tuners with Schallers (quite pricey) and the tailpiece with an Allen and it keeps in tune pretty well now. Then I got a Hathway, which was not bad at staying in tune but eventually it developed the habit of suddenly dropping out of tune on the treble side. I took off one of the Gotohs and it seemed to be worn and loose and tightening up the screw had no effect. I couldn't find a set of 8 replacements (you can get 6), so I stopped playing it for a while. Then I gave Paul Hathway a call, and he just sent me free replacements for the ones that were misbehaving - what a gent! It's all OK now. Oh, and I bought a Gibson A9 (did I say I have serious instrument acquisition syndrome). That has perfect machine heads, and a nicely cut bone nut. As it was new, it was a bit of a pig at first and took a couple of months to settle. Now it sounds good, is very loud, and it stays in tune. I usually put guitar grease in the nut slots and smear a bit in the bridge grooves http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/Special_tools_for:_Nuts_and_saddles/Guitar_Grease.html I do have to mess around with the A strings though, but they usually settle at a session. If you can do things to even up the tension (like pressing down on the string between the nut and the tuner, and on the tailpiece side, then give the string a bit of a stretch you'll help to stop that sudden redistribution of tension when you start to thrash out a few tunes.
I love the mandolin, my wife loves the mandolin, and many other double stringed instruments. And we appreciate things well made, from the basic wood body to the mechanisms... I think my wife secretly aspires to be a mandolinist... Our hearts go out to you... Don't give up the struggle to be in tune, as many flute players have, and others who either can't be bothered, haven't a clue, or haven't the ears for it, the 'sense'...
I bought a Marshall Stapleton (Lyme Regis, Dorset} mandolin ten years ago which sound great and only goes out of tune when I hit it too hard. It wasn't cheap, £750 I think, but was well worth it. Good machine heads are a must.
I have problems keeping the strings in tune on my old 1909 Gibson A4 but feel very reluctant to change the beautiful original inlaid tuning pegs, so I just persevere with it!
Yes, I had this same problem:
Nice cheap Chinese mando - not too foul sounding.
Tuning a problem - specially the A course.
1. Machines - installed new ones (Schallers cost nearly as much as the mando) .. problem with mando machines is the gear ratio is never sensitive enough even with good ones .. so it seems. Problem helped .. but not solved.
2. Made a new bridge out of some decent hardwood. Helped the sound a lot.
3. Made a new tailpiece and installed 8 violin fine-tuners. Pretty much solved the tuning issue, but changed the string tension and made it all too soft. SO I threw away the tailpiece and installed the fine-tuners directly into the soundboard. That worked, and to my astonishment, has not ripped the soundboard off (yet).
4. Now the damn frets have worn out .. got some decent fret-wire .. I'll get round to installing new frets one day .. might totally re-do the fretboard while I'm there .. or maybe just make a whole new mandolin.
It still gets affected by temperature and humidity - not a lot.
Tuning up for the session - do an initial tune - give it a good hammering one time through a tune to get all the tensions settled, then re-tune .. and it seems to stay in tune for the rest of teh session.
Thing with mandos is that the courses really shouldn't be exactly in tune - a teeny bit either way adds fatness to the sound - that's the point of having double-courses. With the A course - it tends to go out of tune more because that's where most the notes are getting played in D/G ITM .. so it gets hammered more ;)
I wouldn't recommend locking turns for strings - totally unnecessary and a real pain if you have to replace a string quickly. I follow the same procedure as Guernsey Pete and my strings never ever slip at the capstan.
Use slightly heavier gauge on your A strings. The set I use to buy had 14's for the A's, but I would buy separate 16's. If loop-end is not available, buy ball-end and use diagonal pliers to snap out the balls.
John Pearse - the late inventer of neat guitar-oriented gizmos - sold a string baller/deballer kit. I never tried it, but I was always curious about it. Since his main line was strings, and he was a guitarist first and foremost, I imagine it's probably worth looking into. I've lost a number of strings trying to clip their balls with pliers. (no way to avoid the double meaning, is there?)
Pearse's merchandise, by the way, was sold through a company called Breezy Ridge, which seemed to exist solely to sell his stuff. Their website was at jpstrings.com, I think. (checked, that's the right address)
F@#king mandolins
F@#king mandolins
Feck this fricking balls of a poxy instrument. Wont stay in tune for 5 seconds AAAAAGH!
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by session savage
Re: F@#king mandolins
LOL, that's how you know that it *is* a mandolin. You spend half your time tuning it and the other half playing it out of tune.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: F@#king mandolins
Try playing the flute.............
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by minijackpot
Re: F@#king mandolins
Try blaming the flute.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by DaveL35
Re: F@#king mandolins
lol will. I knew someone would understand.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by session savage
Re: F@#king mandolins
I used to play the mandolin ... when I was a kid
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by ...
Re: F@#king mandolins
Why did you give it up?
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by session savage
Re: F@#king mandolins
Because he discovered the bodhran
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by I ♥ Dow
Re: F@#king mandolins
hear, hear! especially when they have a crack in the neck....
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Becky-o
Re: F@#king mandolins
The worst is when you hare turning the key so slowly and its almost perfectly in tune then you hear the squeaky click sound as the string slips and ends up going wildly out of tune.
Thank God me fiddle dont misbehave like that.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by session savage
Re: F@#king mandolins
I suffer from the same problem, but I play a cheap mandolin. Are more expensive instruments more likely to stay in tune?
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by sechan
Re: F@#king mandolins
I got my mando for a song so I dont know sechan, I'm sure I'll never find out either
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by session savage
Re: F@#king mandolins
Why did you give it up? Because life's too short
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by ...
Re: F@#king mandolins
Here are some tips for easing your tuning troubles.
Rub a pencil point over the strings where they go through the slots on the nut and on the bridge. The graphite will lubricate the grooves and keep the strings from sticking, only to suddenly release when you're tuning. Smooth grooves equal smoother tuning process.
Tune one string of the pair first, then tune the neighboring string to that. Do each pair this way.
Expect to tune all 8 strings up once, then go back through to adjust for retensioning as the top adjusts to string tensions.
If these basics don't seem to help, then make sure your bridge is set in the right place (check the harmonics at the 12th fret against the open strings--should be within 1 or 2 cents of each other).
Put new strings on every 120 to 150 hours of playing.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: F@#king mandolins
And why is it always just that one A string that goes out of tune?
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by gam
Re: F@#king mandolins
The trick is to select the factory preset lock-in tuning option (they won't tell you this, so you have to ask for it) when you buy your mandolin at the music store. It costs a little more, but the tuning is locked-in and guaranteed to stay in tune for the life of the instrument.
Just kidding...
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: F@#king mandolins
Dan, I don't think the lock-in option is available on the F@#king brand. Though apparently the lock-out option is....
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: F@#king mandolins
Check out the type of tuning machines or gears on the head stock. If it's the old gears type, maybe tighten the screw which will not allow the string to untune as fast. If it's a sealed machine tuner like Schaller, Gotoh, or such, then it may be in the angle and/or intensity of your pick attack on (in this case) your A string(s). Is the one going out of tune on the A string closer to the D string? Then maybe your picking stroke is uneven, hitting the first A string harder or more predominantly than the A string closer to the E string. If the A string is closer to the E string that's going out, maybe your uppicking is harder on that string than the A string closest to the D string.
Consider the angle of pick attack being the culprit. Is your picking stroke parallel to the plane of the strings, or more at an acute angle? This might clear the mystery up a bit. Analysis of your technique might solve the problem.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: F@#king mandolins
"Feck this fricking balls of a poxy instrument. Wont stay in tune for 5 seconds AAAAAGH!"
Your instrument doesn't like you. Take the time to make friends with it.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by All Moldy
Re: F@#king mandolins
Play with a piper. It introduces a great amount of elasticity into the concept of "in tune".
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: F@#king mandolins
You also have to put your strings on correctly. True for all fretted instruments, but the mandolin is especially touchy.
The important thing is to keep manual tension on the string from the moment you begin to tighten the tuning peg until it's tight enough to hold a pitch. This ensures that you're taking up the slack the whole time, and you don't have slippage on the peg or at the tailpiece. I find it helps to wind the string two or three times around the peg before inserting the free end into the peg, this helps everything settle in nicely.
If you just stick the string into the hole and start winding, there's far too much slack on the string at the start, so you end up with a lot of slippage on the tuning peg itself, because it's not wound tightly there.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: F@#king mandolins
The bad news: You're just not man enough to play mandolin.
Get a bigger instrument... A guitar or bouzouki. They're much better phallic inadequacy compensation instruments. Mando players need huge knobs.
Have you all seen my mandolin collection?
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by buddhuu
Re: F@#king mandolins
Will is on the money, BTW. All the points in his post above are dead right.
Oh, and Gam is right about the A course! That course sometime sounds better in chords if you tune it a few cents flat.
With mando you just have to learn how to tune and play properly.
If you cant cope, go for something less demanding... Free reeds or guitar for example...
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by buddhuu
Re: F@#king mandolins
What Jon says about string slippage applies equally well to the fiddle. In the past I've fitted a new string to my old cello (similar in size to the bigger guitars, so some relevance here) which has old and shiny pegs, keeping the tension on manually, as Jon says, only to find that the string kept slipping until on one annoying occasion it slipped off the peg. This may have had something to do with the covering at the peg end of one particular make of steel strings - it almost never happened with synthetic core, and if it did it wasn't for long and it would bind in position soon enough.
I found the solution to the problem was to rub a little rosin (a very small amount) from my bow onto that peg-end covering - no more slipping, and a string that would stay in tune virtually from the word go.
I've sometimes used the same technique when fitting fiddle strings.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: F@#king mandolins
If your strings are wound onto the pegs properly, then 9 times out of 10 the problem is at the nut slot, and it's usually the A strings.
If it's a cheap mandolin you aren't risking much by buying a few spare nuts (ooh err missus) and experimenting with different width and depth of slots.
But first, in addition to the graphite pencil trick described by Will, just wiggle the strings either side of the nut with your finger to help them equalise tension - that often solves it.
You'll still need to adjust it now and then as the arched top expands and contracts with temperature or whatever. Jimmy Moon style flat tops are less prone to this.
Mandolin is the sweetest sound of all when it's tuned sympathetically, it's a pity that the more raucous fiddles and flutes at a session seldom leave space for it
I guess it's really a "parlour instrument",....
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Bren
Re: F@#king mandolins
I had the same problem with a cheap one I bought. I fixed it by using it as a tennis racquet.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by wolfhul
Re: F@#king mandolins
feckn Mandolin play a proper instrument
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by premier
Re: F@#king mandolins
What, like a stick with some holes in it?
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: F@#king mandolins
Only got one thing to say SS: "A bad workman blames his tools!"
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Ptarmigan
Re: F@#king mandolins
With all strings that fit to round pegs it's important that the string fits round the peg a minimum of three times for wound strings and 4 + for plain especially on high tension instruments as this is needed to hold the tension. If you don't get enough turns the tension is fighting the gears and just exacerbating the problem. With enough turns the tension just pulls the peg and can't unwind it, even with cheapie machine heads.
Mandolins are still a pig to keep in tune though.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Solidmahog
Re: F@#king mandolins
When it comes to strings slipping on the tuner posts, just putting lots of turns on often isn't enough, particularly with the A and E string on mandolins. Thread the string through the hole, then take the free end back round and thread it behind the playing end, upwards from below. Wind a bit of tension onto the string, then give the free end a yank upwards to kink it where it is trapped by the playing end. It will never slip.
As to sticky nuts, the problem is almost always caused by the nut groove being V shaped instead of U, and as the string pulls down it gets trapped in the V. The real solution is to cut the nut grooves using proper nut files, but they are very expensive. Putting graphite in the grooves will temporarily help, but a better 'quick fix' is to get an old string and some sort of fine abrasive - either scouring cream or toothpaste work - Put some paste in the groove and repeatedly pull the string back and forth through it until it has worn a shoulder in the groove that fits the string.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by skreech
Re: F@#king mandolins
Yep skreech, a locking turn, the way strings are meant to be fitted.
As to slotting files, worth it if you can afford it, just don't make them too deep as that can rob the tone/volume. The old string slotting technique has served me well over the years ; )
When I'm feeling rich I fit FlatTop A's (flat wound) great tone and way more stable than the standard bare wire. They cost but I can usually leave them on when restringing the rest, I wish Dedario would do them as singles..............
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Solidmahog
Re: F@#king mandolins
up yours Ptarmigan ha ha
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by session savage
Re: F@#king mandolins
I learned loads of great tunes on that first wee Mandolin. It was an excellent instrument for a string player to get started on IMHO & being the honest & reliable sort of bloke I am, I've stayed faithful to them ever since.
I must say I hate this Duh kind of Macho attitude you get from some musicians, whether it be looking back down their noses at instruments they first learned on, like Mandolins, or more commonly Whistles, or scoffing & snobbily heading for the Bar, when tunes they learned when they first got interested in this music, are played. Of course, it say much, much more about them than the instruments, or tunes.
Perhaps they'd like to try scoffing when Enda plays Mandolin or Mary plays Whistle, or Jackie plays cracking versions of some of those so-called "entry level" Polkas!
Three Cheers for Mandolins!
Oh ... & on more Cheers, from me!
Dick
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Ptarmigan
Re: F@#king mandolins
If your instrument keeps going out of tune, it's a mechanical issue particular to yours and I'd take it to to a shop or it will drive you crazy.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: F@#king mandolins
Too late ... it has!
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Clear Drops
Re: F@#king mandolins
Everyone has touched on one or other of the likely problems;
string winding; I always do one turn ABOVE where the string goes through the hole in the capstan, and then cross over to under the string hole,leading the string with a light tension so that as it winds each turn is lower on the capstan and so increasing the tension against the free end of the string to hold it tight.
tuning machines; there are definitely grades of tuners, and if you have the cheapest then you can't expect the same performance as if you have individual mini-Schallers or whatever; cheapest tuners on a single plate about £10; what's a set of individuals cost ?
nut problems; it's worth looking at this closely to reduce problems.
old strings; if you have an old set nothing will ever seem right; change them more frequently; you may be surprised at the difference it makes.
Maybe you just need to upgrade to a new mando anyway; maybe you've outgrown the old one.
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: F@#king mandolins
"Maybe you just need to upgrade to a new mando anyway; maybe you've outgrown the old one."
Whilst there is undoubtedly a learning/getting to know a new instrument curve especially with the pesky mandolin, Pete's point above is a good one...............
But then finding a new one is a different headache altogether but worth it in the end...
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by Solidmahog
Re: F@#king mandolins
Well it is a problem and there are many good tips given above. The mandolin I started on was an old Suzuki, beautifully made but bright red and not loud. It doesn't go out of tune, and I hardly play it now, but I pick it up occasionally and I'm amazed it's still in tune. The next one was a Czech one (a Pavlu) and that is nicely constructed out of solid woods but had the cheapest possible machine heads and tailpiece. I replaced the tuners with Schallers (quite pricey) and the tailpiece with an Allen and it keeps in tune pretty well now. Then I got a Hathway, which was not bad at staying in tune but eventually it developed the habit of suddenly dropping out of tune on the treble side. I took off one of the Gotohs and it seemed to be worn and loose and tightening up the screw had no effect. I couldn't find a set of 8 replacements (you can get 6), so I stopped playing it for a while. Then I gave Paul Hathway a call, and he just sent me free replacements for the ones that were misbehaving - what a gent! It's all OK now. Oh, and I bought a Gibson A9 (did I say I have serious instrument acquisition syndrome). That has perfect machine heads, and a nicely cut bone nut. As it was new, it was a bit of a pig at first and took a couple of months to settle. Now it sounds good, is very loud, and it stays in tune. I usually put guitar grease in the nut slots and smear a bit in the bridge grooves http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/Special_tools_for:_Nuts_and_saddles/Guitar_Grease.html I do have to mess around with the A strings though, but they usually settle at a session. If you can do things to even up the tension (like pressing down on the string between the nut and the tuner, and on the tailpiece side, then give the string a bit of a stretch you'll help to stop that sudden redistribution of tension when you start to thrash out a few tunes.
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by RichardB
Re: F@#king mandolins
I love the mandolin, my wife loves the mandolin, and many other double stringed instruments. And we appreciate things well made, from the basic wood body to the mechanisms... I think my wife secretly aspires to be a mandolinist... Our hearts go out to you... Don't give up the struggle to be in tune, as many flute players have, and others who either can't be bothered, haven't a clue, or haven't the ears for it, the 'sense'...
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by ceolachan
Re: F@#king mandolins
"Wont stay in tune for 5 seconds"
That's why they have eight strings to choose from. Makes it more of a challenge in your search for perfection.
Me, I'd switch to hammered dulcimer, right away.
Get it over with.
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by Piece
Re: F@#king mandolins
Hey, why stop there Rook, might as well go the whole hog & get a Cimbalom, cause some of those babies have FOUR & FIVE Strings per note!
http://images04.olx.hu/ui/3/67/32/57106532_1.jpg
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by Ptarmigan
Re: F@#king mandolins
I bought a Marshall Stapleton (Lyme Regis, Dorset} mandolin ten years ago which sound great and only goes out of tune when I hit it too hard. It wasn't cheap, £750 I think, but was well worth it. Good machine heads are a must.
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: F@#king mandolins
I have problems keeping the strings in tune on my old 1909 Gibson A4 but feel very reluctant to change the beautiful original inlaid tuning pegs, so I just persevere with it!
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by 121JSB
Re: F@#king mandolins
Yes, I had this same problem:
Nice cheap Chinese mando - not too foul sounding.
Tuning a problem - specially the A course.
1. Machines - installed new ones (Schallers cost nearly as much as the mando) .. problem with mando machines is the gear ratio is never sensitive enough even with good ones .. so it seems. Problem helped .. but not solved.
2. Made a new bridge out of some decent hardwood. Helped the sound a lot.
3. Made a new tailpiece and installed 8 violin fine-tuners. Pretty much solved the tuning issue, but changed the string tension and made it all too soft. SO I threw away the tailpiece and installed the fine-tuners directly into the soundboard. That worked, and to my astonishment, has not ripped the soundboard off (yet).
4. Now the damn frets have worn out .. got some decent fret-wire .. I'll get round to installing new frets one day .. might totally re-do the fretboard while I'm there .. or maybe just make a whole new mandolin.
It still gets affected by temperature and humidity - not a lot.
Tuning up for the session - do an initial tune - give it a good hammering one time through a tune to get all the tensions settled, then re-tune .. and it seems to stay in tune for the rest of teh session.
Thing with mandos is that the courses really shouldn't be exactly in tune - a teeny bit either way adds fatness to the sound - that's the point of having double-courses. With the A course - it tends to go out of tune more because that's where most the notes are getting played in D/G ITM .. so it gets hammered more ;)
# Posted on June 28th 2010 by Mozle
Re: F@#king mandolins
thanks for all the above tips. I used most of your ideas and so far so good. The mandolin is holding tune, I'm delighted to say.
# Posted on June 28th 2010 by sechan
Re: F@#king mandolins
I wouldn't recommend locking turns for strings - totally unnecessary and a real pain if you have to replace a string quickly. I follow the same procedure as Guernsey Pete and my strings never ever slip at the capstan.
# Posted on June 28th 2010 by DonaldK
Re: F@#king mandolins
yeh, also you can break the string where it crosses itself.
I take three wraps, then through the hole, back around through the hole, pull tight with pliers, and start winding.
I figure if three wraps is good enough for a rope on a capstan or a triple rolling pipe hitch then it's good enough for a little wire string
# Posted on June 28th 2010 by Bren
Re: F@#king mandolins
The problem Session Savage, is not the strings or the instrument. It's your tuning,
Now, instead of trying to tune AAAAAAGH, try tuning it GGDDAAEE. That works for me.
;0)
# Posted on June 29th 2010 by clavey
Re: F@#king mandolins
Gibson 1919 A2.No problem at all.
# Posted on June 29th 2010 by smokinbanjo
Re: F@#king mandolins
Use slightly heavier gauge on your A strings. The set I use to buy had 14's for the A's, but I would buy separate 16's. If loop-end is not available, buy ball-end and use diagonal pliers to snap out the balls.
# Posted on July 9th 2010 by oakuss
Re: F@#king mandolins
oakuss ".... and use diagonal pliers to snap out the balls."
Ouch! ....
But (joking apart), a good tip. I've yet to find a supplier of loop-ended custom guage strings ....
# Posted on July 9th 2010 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: F@#king mandolins
John Pearse - the late inventer of neat guitar-oriented gizmos - sold a string baller/deballer kit. I never tried it, but I was always curious about it. Since his main line was strings, and he was a guitarist first and foremost, I imagine it's probably worth looking into. I've lost a number of strings trying to clip their balls with pliers. (no way to avoid the double meaning, is there?)
# Posted on July 9th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: F@#king mandolins
Pearse's merchandise, by the way, was sold through a company called Breezy Ridge, which seemed to exist solely to sell his stuff. Their website was at jpstrings.com, I think. (checked, that's the right address)
# Posted on July 9th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: F@#king mandolins
Jon: That "John Pearse" gadget that you mentioned is apparently called "The String Wizard"
http://www.jpstrings.com/braccess.htm#Wizard
John Pearse - now let me see - didn't he have a brother called Tom who ran a grey mare hire business? ....
# Posted on July 9th 2010 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: F@#king mandolins
"I've yet to find a supplier of loop-ended custom guage strings"
Newtone Strings can do that for you, minimum order 6 sets. http://www.newtonestrings.com/
# Posted on July 9th 2010 by johndsamuels