my girlfriend's son has seen a guitar he likes, and would like to know if it's worth the price : it's a "Art et Lutherie, Canada", for 330 dollars (+ taxes). Can anyone tell me if it's worth buying ?
Thanks a lot !
here in the states, our northern neighbors in Canukistan have been making good guitars for the last couple decades. The whole country is nothing but trees and hockey rinks, so they definitely have a good supply of woods. I have one myself made by Seagull guitars and it has aged wonderfully
If he has played it, and he likes it, especially if he likes the sound, $330 in American currency is a very fair price.
It's not a make I know, but looking at their website they seem good enough, mid range instruments with solid tops and laminated bodies (though personally I don't like the raised rosette they put on some models).
But even if I knew the make, it would be impossible to tell you if that is a good guitar or not without seeing it. Even within the same model from the same manufacturer every guitar is different.
If it is priced the same as the same model in other shops then you know you are not being ripped off, and from there on the only thing that is important is that he likes it. Even things like action height are down to personal preference, there is no point in measuring it, he needs to play the guitar, and if it is wrong for him he won't like it.
At that price it could be, as Skreech says, a good guitar or a bad guitar. The only way to tell is to look at it and play it. Your girlfriend's son has done that and he likes it, as you say, so it is highly unlikely that he will be ripped off. If he prefers that guitar to others he has tried, then I would buy it if I were him (or you hint hint).
Art et Lutherie, Seagull, Norman, Simon and Patrick. Godin, are all the same company (I think) and are all good value for the money. Some of the best players in this country use Seagull. (J.P. Cormier, Brian Doyle, David MacIsaac). If it plays well go for it!!
These are wonderful guitars. I repair them & sell them on occasion. The best made in the US & Canada in that price range, along with their sister brands Seagull and Simon & Patrick.
If that is a new price it is a great price for an import. Even used these are great guitars.
The budget guitars from A&L, S&P, Seagull, Norman, and whatnot are all basically well-made mediocre guitars. They're a good starter guitar in that they are reasonably priced with decent sound and will hold up, given reasonably decent treatment. They can be set up to play well and a good guitar shop will make sure that they are set up, but you should make sure that this happens.
This line was always my first port of call for a new player looking to buy a guitar, because it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend much more than this on a first guitar before you really know what you're looking for, and because they're a safe buy. They'll always be decent instruments, assuming they're set up properly.
However, these will never be particularly good instruments, and if you have been playing for a few years, you really should look for something more to your taste. This will not necessarily be more expensive, but it will require some knowledge. The player has to know what they want, and how to evaluate an instrument in order to tell whether that $150 1978 Yamaha is a find or a fiend, or which of these excellent Martins you want to spend a grand on.
So, executive summary, if your son-in-sin is looking for a first guitar and he likes this instrument, it'll be a decent guitar that will serve for learning and then as a backup instrument for as long as he keeps it. If he's already playing for a few years, he probably knows enough to find a less generic guitar, one more suited to his particular needs, and should do more homework.
I got a beautiful triple-O 1 for $500 a few years ago. Love that guitar, it's in Idaho just now, where my brother keeps promising to learn how to play it. There are good deals on Martins, same as everything.
If he’s a beginner, I’d say the main thing is whether the guitar is playable without too much discomfort. (Anguished fingertips are discouraging enough to land a guitar in closetland.) What matters is decent action, sound that isn’t dead, at a price he’s willing to pay.
It doesn't need to be the perfect guitar—the guitar itself should matter much less over time. I recently sat and watched a certain guitarist absolutely roar through a complex number on a cracked old guitar worth maybe $35 on Craigslist. In the right hands, it was the hammer of the gods.
$300 is not a lot of money for something that will give you enormous pleasure.
Personally I deplore this rather American-lead trend to want to analyse everything as to its possible value ( do they mean re-sale value ? ) before buying, trying, going to actually enjoy things.
This is also part of the "I could have got it cheaper for you at so-and-so's " syndrome.
Jump in and enjoy it !
Live for the moment !
Feck it, go for it !
Yeah, but it's usually worth the time to look for the best buy you can find, of course if you're driving all over the state to try out guitars you end up spending more on gas and might as well spend a couple hundred more to get something locally that suits your needs and wants. This is coming from a broke multiinstrumentalist that has been ripped off on at least one $150 guitar. The most important things to looks for are are solid top, good action (although a decent guitar shop will adjust this for you, they can usually only adjust so much without causing fret buzz, or maybe it doesn't buzz right away but 6 months down the road they will buzz and you have to take it in again. In my experience most shops only do free setup on purchase and one or two times after that, possibly more for a more expensive instrument, 500+) An instrument with perfect action on display in the store is bound to have better action than one that has to be lowered. Also you should try to notice how in tune it is when you pick it up to try, as there is definite value in guitars that keep their tuning well. Now I know in my part of the country I can find top notch guitars for just over $500 or $600 dollars, but I still play my $350 washburn that I got on clearance 6 or 7 years ago because I'm primarily a fiddle player and I need all the money i can get for things that relate to that, but if you are pursuing guitar and guitar only there is some sense in saving up a couple hundred more to get a better instrument.
Something else to look out for. If you frequent a guitar shop that is fairly large and fairly busy (sells a lot of guitars) they probably put new instruments from the previous year on clearance regularly, so if you go in the spring (maybe right now) you will find a fair selection of last years otherwise new instruments begging to be sold at clearance prices.
I actually mean, sometimes when the weather gets extraordinarily humid here in the midwest, a guitar that has had the action lowered can get really buzzy when the wood expands. This will usually correct itself, but really stresses the importance of dense solid woods (to be found in higher end guitars) and keeping the instrument in it's case, not spilling beer on it, etc. these are all just things to think about. If you live in the desert you probably don't have to worry about it, but there's still something to be said for how brilliant an instrument can sound in humid environments (when taken from a dry case to a humid room, with white noise coming from the storm whipping in from over the lake)
Pete - $300 might be a disposable amount of money for you or me, but nikita's girlfriend's son is probably a teenager with a different pocketbook situation. It's worth looking into.
I say this all because after buying my Washburn for $300 ish, on a later visit to the same store I found a 5 or 6 hundred dollar guitar in the "upper end" room that when I hit the strings for the first dime delivered some of the deepest robust tones that I've ever heard from a guitar, I don't remember what it was, but it doesn't matter. I think you should find the best sounding guitar you can find in the store (doesn't matter price) and base your decision off of finding guitars that sound that good to you. Initially when trying out guitars, you should not be afraid of testing outside your price range, because that's when you will find out what you really do want. Sometimes good guitars will jump out and surprise you with price, so you should evaluate what exactly made you think it was a good guitar in the first place. was it the sound? or the look? or maybe playability?
Hmmmm.... one of the nicest sounding guitars I have is an all-laminated top, back and sides "folk style" instrument, which used to be sold through the long defunct "Bell" mail order catalogue in the 1970s (it's actually a Japanese-made instrument). It wasn't an expensive instrument, but I'd never want to part company with it, though it's in retirement now because it needs a complete re-fret. So really, it goes to show that you don't actually need to spend as much as even $300 to get a good sounding (and extremely playable) instrument..
I have an A & L for the past 3 years and am very happy with it. Its a Cedar CW (cutaway) and yes they are solid top not laminate. I paid €350 I think so your price seems good. Before buying it I tried several others in the same price range in the shop, Cort, Tanglewood, Takamine G series, Simon & Patrick and I liked the A&L best. Several players who have borrowed it for a song at sessions have commented on how nice it is to play. I have recently bought a Martin D28 and am very happy with it too. You'd be hard pressed to say it sounds and plays €1300 better. I had intended to sell the A&L when I bought the Martin but I like it too much to part with it! My brother bought a Freshman acoustic recently I think around €400 and I am very impressed with his guitar too. I'm not sure where they are made.
Ron - do the refret. It's absolutely worth it. I'd suggest a guy, but he's on the wrong continent for you. I'm sure there's somebody local, though.
It's true, you can buy a beater and get a keeper. My first acoustic guitar is hanging on the wall next to my computer as I'm typing - Epiphone PR 350, solid spruce top, laminate back and sides. Wouldn't trade it for the moon. There's a reason I've got the Epiphone and I lent my brother the Martin.
Hi Jon - I'll probably do it myself some day, but not in the near future; there simply aren't enough hours in the day, days in a week, etc.... But yes, it's worthwhile doing.
Very nice guitars and with a good setup, excellent guitars. I would have bee thrilled to have one to start out (my first axe was an all plywood Yamaha with plastic tuner buttons, saddle, and nut). He'll also get the extra satisfaction of knowing that a worker in North America was paid to build it... well *maybe* he'll get that, if not now, then perhaps later.
Regarding the earlier question of getting an excellent Martin for under a grand -- it happens all the time. There are frequent auctions for quality good at prices so good that they seem ridiculous.
For example, did everyone miss the Gibson Fern that sold last month for $680? Had I known the final price would be so low, I may have done something very silly to front the cash. Good thing that didn't happen -- but oh, then there was the new old stock sunburst J-54 that found a new home for the princely sum of $458. After seeing that I just about threw the computer into a tree.
guitar question
guitar question
my girlfriend's son has seen a guitar he likes, and would like to know if it's worth the price : it's a "Art et Lutherie, Canada", for 330 dollars (+ taxes). Can anyone tell me if it's worth buying ?
Thanks a lot !
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Nikita Pfister
Re: guitar question
Has he looked at other guitars? If he has, and this is the one he likes, then it's worth buying.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by skreech
Re: guitar question
thnaks... but he'd like to know if it's a good quality guitar. he loves the sound and the look...
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Nikita Pfister
Re: guitar question
have a look at the height of the action, check to see if it has a cedar or spruce top or plywood or other top
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Dick Miles
Re: guitar question
it's cedar :
http://www.artandlutherieguitars.com/cwcedarblack.html...
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Nikita Pfister
Re: guitar question
here in the states, our northern neighbors in Canukistan have been making good guitars for the last couple decades. The whole country is nothing but trees and hockey rinks, so they definitely have a good supply of woods. I have one myself made by Seagull guitars and it has aged wonderfully
If he has played it, and he likes it, especially if he likes the sound, $330 in American currency is a very fair price.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: guitar question
It's not a make I know, but looking at their website they seem good enough, mid range instruments with solid tops and laminated bodies (though personally I don't like the raised rosette they put on some models).
But even if I knew the make, it would be impossible to tell you if that is a good guitar or not without seeing it. Even within the same model from the same manufacturer every guitar is different.
If it is priced the same as the same model in other shops then you know you are not being ripped off, and from there on the only thing that is important is that he likes it. Even things like action height are down to personal preference, there is no point in measuring it, he needs to play the guitar, and if it is wrong for him he won't like it.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by skreech
Re: guitar question
At that price it could be, as Skreech says, a good guitar or a bad guitar. The only way to tell is to look at it and play it. Your girlfriend's son has done that and he likes it, as you say, so it is highly unlikely that he will be ripped off. If he prefers that guitar to others he has tried, then I would buy it if I were him (or you hint hint).
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by gam
Re: guitar question
Art et Lutherie, Seagull, Norman, Simon and Patrick. Godin, are all the same company (I think) and are all good value for the money. Some of the best players in this country use Seagull. (J.P. Cormier, Brian Doyle, David MacIsaac). If it plays well go for it!!
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by CDNMoose
Re: guitar question
...And you could always fit one of these...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLOy0mxI4wE&feature=related
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by gam
Re: guitar question
Nikita,
These are wonderful guitars. I repair them & sell them on occasion. The best made in the US & Canada in that price range, along with their sister brands Seagull and Simon & Patrick.
If that is a new price it is a great price for an import. Even used these are great guitars.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Kevin Coffey
Re: guitar question
The budget guitars from A&L, S&P, Seagull, Norman, and whatnot are all basically well-made mediocre guitars. They're a good starter guitar in that they are reasonably priced with decent sound and will hold up, given reasonably decent treatment. They can be set up to play well and a good guitar shop will make sure that they are set up, but you should make sure that this happens.
This line was always my first port of call for a new player looking to buy a guitar, because it doesn't make a lot of sense to spend much more than this on a first guitar before you really know what you're looking for, and because they're a safe buy. They'll always be decent instruments, assuming they're set up properly.
However, these will never be particularly good instruments, and if you have been playing for a few years, you really should look for something more to your taste. This will not necessarily be more expensive, but it will require some knowledge. The player has to know what they want, and how to evaluate an instrument in order to tell whether that $150 1978 Yamaha is a find or a fiend, or which of these excellent Martins you want to spend a grand on.
So, executive summary, if your son-in-sin is looking for a first guitar and he likes this instrument, it'll be a decent guitar that will serve for learning and then as a backup instrument for as long as he keeps it. If he's already playing for a few years, he probably knows enough to find a less generic guitar, one more suited to his particular needs, and should do more homework.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: guitar question
Can you really get an excellent Martin for a grand?
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Bob himself
Re: guitar question
I got a beautiful triple-O 1 for $500 a few years ago. Love that guitar, it's in Idaho just now, where my brother keeps promising to learn how to play it. There are good deals on Martins, same as everything.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: guitar question
If he’s a beginner, I’d say the main thing is whether the guitar is playable without too much discomfort. (Anguished fingertips are discouraging enough to land a guitar in closetland.) What matters is decent action, sound that isn’t dead, at a price he’s willing to pay.
It doesn't need to be the perfect guitar—the guitar itself should matter much less over time. I recently sat and watched a certain guitarist absolutely roar through a complex number on a cracked old guitar worth maybe $35 on Craigslist. In the right hands, it was the hammer of the gods.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: guitar question
$300 is not a lot of money for something that will give you enormous pleasure.
Personally I deplore this rather American-lead trend to want to analyse everything as to its possible value ( do they mean re-sale value ? ) before buying, trying, going to actually enjoy things.
This is also part of the "I could have got it cheaper for you at so-and-so's " syndrome.
Jump in and enjoy it !
Live for the moment !
Feck it, go for it !
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: guitar question
Yeah, but it's usually worth the time to look for the best buy you can find, of course if you're driving all over the state to try out guitars you end up spending more on gas and might as well spend a couple hundred more to get something locally that suits your needs and wants. This is coming from a broke multiinstrumentalist that has been ripped off on at least one $150 guitar. The most important things to looks for are are solid top, good action (although a decent guitar shop will adjust this for you, they can usually only adjust so much without causing fret buzz, or maybe it doesn't buzz right away but 6 months down the road they will buzz and you have to take it in again. In my experience most shops only do free setup on purchase and one or two times after that, possibly more for a more expensive instrument, 500+) An instrument with perfect action on display in the store is bound to have better action than one that has to be lowered. Also you should try to notice how in tune it is when you pick it up to try, as there is definite value in guitars that keep their tuning well. Now I know in my part of the country I can find top notch guitars for just over $500 or $600 dollars, but I still play my $350 washburn that I got on clearance 6 or 7 years ago because I'm primarily a fiddle player and I need all the money i can get for things that relate to that, but if you are pursuing guitar and guitar only there is some sense in saving up a couple hundred more to get a better instrument.
Something else to look out for. If you frequent a guitar shop that is fairly large and fairly busy (sells a lot of guitars) they probably put new instruments from the previous year on clearance regularly, so if you go in the spring (maybe right now) you will find a fair selection of last years otherwise new instruments begging to be sold at clearance prices.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: guitar question
I actually mean, sometimes when the weather gets extraordinarily humid here in the midwest, a guitar that has had the action lowered can get really buzzy when the wood expands. This will usually correct itself, but really stresses the importance of dense solid woods (to be found in higher end guitars) and keeping the instrument in it's case, not spilling beer on it, etc. these are all just things to think about. If you live in the desert you probably don't have to worry about it, but there's still something to be said for how brilliant an instrument can sound in humid environments (when taken from a dry case to a humid room, with white noise coming from the storm whipping in from over the lake)
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: guitar question
Pete - $300 might be a disposable amount of money for you or me, but nikita's girlfriend's son is probably a teenager with a different pocketbook situation. It's worth looking into.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: guitar question
I say this all because after buying my Washburn for $300 ish, on a later visit to the same store I found a 5 or 6 hundred dollar guitar in the "upper end" room that when I hit the strings for the first dime delivered some of the deepest robust tones that I've ever heard from a guitar, I don't remember what it was, but it doesn't matter. I think you should find the best sounding guitar you can find in the store (doesn't matter price) and base your decision off of finding guitars that sound that good to you. Initially when trying out guitars, you should not be afraid of testing outside your price range, because that's when you will find out what you really do want. Sometimes good guitars will jump out and surprise you with price, so you should evaluate what exactly made you think it was a good guitar in the first place. was it the sound? or the look? or maybe playability?
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: guitar question
Wouldn’t you expect a laminated guitar to be more stable in changing humidity?
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Bob himself
Re: guitar question
Hmmmm.... one of the nicest sounding guitars I have is an all-laminated top, back and sides "folk style" instrument, which used to be sold through the long defunct "Bell" mail order catalogue in the 1970s (it's actually a Japanese-made instrument). It wasn't an expensive instrument, but I'd never want to part company with it, though it's in retirement now because it needs a complete re-fret. So really, it goes to show that you don't actually need to spend as much as even $300 to get a good sounding (and extremely playable) instrument..
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by On Sabbatical
Re: guitar question
Here are some other instruments in that price range at Elderly Instruments:
http://elderly.com/new_instruments/cat_or_pgc_page?page=3&query_start=41&step=20&cat_or_pgc=20N&special_links=&sort_on=sort_price&reverse_str=
I've bought and sold several guitars through them and always found their staff knowledgeable and prices very fair.
# Posted on June 25th 2010 by Toppish
Re: guitar question
I have an A & L for the past 3 years and am very happy with it. Its a Cedar CW (cutaway) and yes they are solid top not laminate. I paid €350 I think so your price seems good. Before buying it I tried several others in the same price range in the shop, Cort, Tanglewood, Takamine G series, Simon & Patrick and I liked the A&L best. Several players who have borrowed it for a song at sessions have commented on how nice it is to play. I have recently bought a Martin D28 and am very happy with it too. You'd be hard pressed to say it sounds and plays €1300 better. I had intended to sell the A&L when I bought the Martin but I like it too much to part with it! My brother bought a Freshman acoustic recently I think around €400 and I am very impressed with his guitar too. I'm not sure where they are made.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by CelticMissed
Re: guitar question
Ron - do the refret. It's absolutely worth it. I'd suggest a guy, but he's on the wrong continent for you. I'm sure there's somebody local, though.
It's true, you can buy a beater and get a keeper. My first acoustic guitar is hanging on the wall next to my computer as I'm typing - Epiphone PR 350, solid spruce top, laminate back and sides. Wouldn't trade it for the moon. There's a reason I've got the Epiphone and I lent my brother the Martin.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: guitar question
Hi Jon - I'll probably do it myself some day, but not in the near future; there simply aren't enough hours in the day, days in a week, etc.... But yes, it's worthwhile doing.
# Posted on June 26th 2010 by On Sabbatical
Re: guitar question
Very nice guitars and with a good setup, excellent guitars. I would have bee thrilled to have one to start out (my first axe was an all plywood Yamaha with plastic tuner buttons, saddle, and nut). He'll also get the extra satisfaction of knowing that a worker in North America was paid to build it... well *maybe* he'll get that, if not now, then perhaps later.
Regarding the earlier question of getting an excellent Martin for under a grand -- it happens all the time. There are frequent auctions for quality good at prices so good that they seem ridiculous.
For example, did everyone miss the Gibson Fern that sold last month for $680? Had I known the final price would be so low, I may have done something very silly to front the cash. Good thing that didn't happen -- but oh, then there was the new old stock sunburst J-54 that found a new home for the princely sum of $458. After seeing that I just about threw the computer into a tree.
# Posted on June 27th 2010 by gravelwalks