Comments

History of the low whistle ?

History of the low whistle ?

So, when did it come in ?
Who made the first Low D ?
I don't remember a Generation lower than a Bb in my youth.
Who was the first ?

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Guernsey Pete

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Bernard Overton invented it with/for Finbar Fury .. who still, in my opinion, it the best player of the thing.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

llig leahcim...


It is Finbar FUREY not "Fury" you complete and utter fool.

Maybe if you'd learnt to read sheet-music you might not make such ignorant comments.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by woD

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I hope woD is being facetious. The last time I checked, a spelling error did not make one a complete and utter fool, and if it did, sheet music would be unlikely to help.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by TaoCat

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Complete AND utter.. wow. But he just answered the question with perfect alacrity, and added a little comment ripe for discussion.
I prefer Davey Spillan, myself.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by gam

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I always persumed it was an instrument used in other traditional music accomadated in Ireland, nice to know it was made for Finbar Fur"e"y (big deal woD)

I have to admit I'm not the biggest fan of low whistles, they're not great in a session and they don't have the brightness of the flute or 'normal' whistle , this just my opinion a lot of people have a great appreciation of the instrument

Guernsey Pete, I saw a familar thread of yours looking at the history of the accordion, what is it that your looking for? Surley you would get more accurate info on the history of instruments outside of the internet?

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by premier

Re: History of the low whistle ?

woD is always facetious, from what I have seen. ;-)

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by AlBrown

Re: History of the low whistle ?


"It is Finbar FUREY not "Fury" you complete and utter fool."

Mr.Gill just attracts these kind of comments. Must be his lovely personality.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Jwalkert

Re: History of the low whistle ?

My question is why do some makers call it a low D penny whistle when they cost $400?

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Jwalkert

Re: History of the low whistle ?

It's Spillane NOt Spillan you ... gam :-).

Anyway, Davey Spillane was the first person I saw playing one, at some gig in Aberdeen weirdly jammed into a nightclub.
Some time in the 80s or early 90s.

Given the alacrity with which I spot trends that means it first appeared at least ten years earlier.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Bren

Re: History of the low whistle ?

jWalkert, that will be because D = 500 in Roman numerals and 400 is a bit LOWer than that.

Obviously.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Bren

Re: History of the low whistle ?

http://www.chiffandfipple.com/lowhistory.html

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

What's "sheet-music"? Oh, I see, he's put in a hyphen by mistake. Never mind.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by RichardB

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I'm only asking because I'm too lazy to look it up. you get such great craic here, and you can't believe Wikipedia all the time.
Now, where was that question about whose was the first bodhran ?

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Guernsey Pete

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I'm fairly certain LL has already learnt how to read sheet music. So, Pete, why do members keep saying because Wikipedia lacks credibility they look for answers here? The only thing I can think of, is there must be more skeptics in the trad community than in WikiLand. I'm just not sure how that gives this forum more credibility than WikiPedia.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Looking for credible answers here is like going to Ikea for advice on antiques. But hey, you might get lucky. But what's lacking here is some kind of rating system for people who generally give reasonable advice.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Low whistles have been common in Eastern Europe and the Middle East for centuries (usually referred to by the Turkish name "kaval", which also applies to fippleless endblown flutes).

Overton's only innovation in whistle making was the metal block, specially designed to clog up with condensation within seconds and reduce your tune to gurgles. For some reason no whistlemaker in the Ottoman Empire ever came up with that idea.

Making a Turkish low whistle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVcq0mnXGDY

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Jack Campin

Re: History of the low whistle ?

ha ha, I've heard that gripe so often from people who can't play them.

Warm it up before you start, blow hard and cover the holes properly. It never ceases to amaze me why people complain that they can't play an instrument without a bit of practice.

# Posted on June 5th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

When I first (and the only time) played one I thought you we need hands like shovels to cover the holes.

I suppose one of the reasons I don't warm to the low whistle is that I compare it to the sindt and burke "normal" whistles instead of treating is as a seperate instrument

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by premier

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Fipples are like nipples. Once you know how good they can be they are grand. ;)

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTgU8HjiUgc

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by premier

Re: History of the low whistle ?

"first and only time" ..? ... like I said

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I wasn't complaing about low whistles , Llig, merely supporting your statement about :
"why people complain that they can't play an instrument without a bit of practice"
I haven't played or practiced a lot of instruments some which I've an apreciation for and others I don't, the low whistle being one.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by premier

Re: History of the low whistle ?

The obvious answer to "it's not a session instrument" is: it depends on the session.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

What prompted me to get rid of my Overton was having to play the thing on stage. I had to come on from the wings and play the opening theme tune, unaccompanied, and do it again at the end. In all, the same tune 8 times, and so exposed that any fluff any time was completely obvious. The theatre was so cold that the whistle turned into a still in the ten steps I took from the wings, despite me keeping it in my shirt until the last possible moment. I did occasionally manage a fluff-free night, but no thanks to Uncle Bernard.

Stupid, pointless bit of engineer-think. Wood works, metal doesn't.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Jack Campin

Re: History of the low whistle ?

well it wouldn't take much to drown it out, a strong flute, box definatley, a couple of fiddles etc

a session that would suit it.... a low whistle session?

I sound sarcastic but I played in sessions with low whistles and they could pretend to play all the differance it would have made... solo instrument - grand, but not for me

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by premier

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I remember when I was kid and seeing the Fureys and seeing Finbar's ice bucket full of whistles. Only later did I learn it was full of hot water, not ice.

I mostly play my Overtons in the bath. Or sat on the loo when my kids are in the bath. A quick dip of the head under the hot tap works wonders.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Taocat you are wrong.

Sheet-music helps everything, especially learning to spell and also learning Irish music how it should be played.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by woD

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Hey llig while you are on the toilet playing your whistle do you play this tune?

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3151

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by woD

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Jack, you're missing out. Metal is very cool. It's the choice for the best pipe organs. & yes, while we live on the planet earth it is about water & how to keep things warm; & you can only do it with water.
Anyhow, I have nothing but respect for Bernard Overton. Thank you.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I'm glad to see it helps with grammar too

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Answer the question llig

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by woD

This is a perfect example of what separates Wikipedia from thesession.org :-D

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Random_humour: "Metal is very cool."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZn7k5rZLQ

Yes.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Joe CSS

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Pah, that video only has 36,391,073 views

Pathetic

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by woD

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Does every thread around here need to reduce the argument to absurdity? harumph!

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by AlBrown

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Al, once the question has been answered it's only those who have no home's to go to who linger. Have a bit of compassion.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

"New Wave tried to kill the Metal - BUT THEY FAAILLEDD as they were stricken down to the ground!!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6CPwu0I44

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Joe CSS

~

sorry ... homes
the grammar police are out.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Getting info from this site is a great idea. You get several good sources without a great deal of effort. Lots of good differing opinions. A lot of crap too sometimes...but that's easy to sort out.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by shanty

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Yeah, it's easy to sort the crap if you already know what you're on about, but what if you are new to it.

e.g. from this discussion so far, would you get the impression that you should steer clear of Overtons because they invariably clog up? Or merely that they are just a little more difficult to play than most low whistles, which in the long run, is well worth it?

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by ...

Re: History of the low whistle ?

As a player of low and other whistles I know that that the temperature thing is only an issue if you are playing outside in icy weather. If you are having problems indoors then the only reason it will clog up or have condensation problems is simply because either you haven't taken the 20 seconds to warm it up or you simply can't play it.

Volume wise, well it wasn't designed for sessions was it? Though some low whistles are a lot louder than others. I have two Overton low D's, a standard one and one that has a lot of back pressure and is easily loud enough. At least in the session I like to play in where there are rarely more than half a dozen players. Bigger session than that are pointless for almost all instruments in my view.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWsCmSPaoCo

You can see Mike McGoldrick at the start of this clip doing all that's required to warm up a low whistle. Cover the sound hole with you finger and blow dry air hard through the whistle for 10 - 20 seconds. Other than keeping the whistle completely clean that really is all there is to it. The rest is simply down the technique. If you have bad technique on almost any instrument they're going to sound bad.

I would have to say, dipping the whistle in warm water (definitely not hot) is a risky business. It can seriously affect the tuning.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Hey llig while you are on the toilet playing your whistle do you play this tune?

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/3151

I think its more likely to be this one

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/5905

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Bernie

Re: History of the low whistle ?

That preliminary routine would not have been an option for me, in character in a play. The thing had to work straight off, which a wooden whistle would have done. But I didn't have a suitable wooden low G at the time - I now have a Transylvanian one that would have done the job, though its low end isn't as loud as an Overton.

I have heard that SOP for the Basque txistu is to dunk the thing in a jug of wine before you play. Probably has the side benefit of making sure you get the wine to yourself, as people tend not to want their wine diluted with whistleplayers' drool.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Jack Campin

Re: History of the low whistle ?

If I was looking for 'the history of the low whistle' and found this thread I could surmise from it that:

A-Bernard Overton invented it for Finbar Furey

B-it was an instrument used in other traditional music accommodated in Ireland

C-Davey Spillane was one of the first people to play it

D-Low whistles have been common in Eastern Europe and the Middle East for centuries

E-Some people have issues with them as far as tuning/condensation.

You would have to draw your own conclusions about weather Overton was influenced by whistles from Eastern Europe or the Middle East but all of the statements here are true to a degree except B, I would guess.

So it does serve the purpose of answering the OP's question and it also introduces middle eastern whistles to people who may not have known about them.

In conclusion, you do have to wade through a lot of sh*te on this site to get to the point!

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by shanty

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Well it is a discussion forum.......

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I've got this curious information filter thingy they call a brain, and it's quite good at filtering out those bits of banter here on the screen I don't want to be bothered with and letting me get on with absorbing those bits of information I do want to be bothered with.
Does anyone else have or use one of these things ?
Sometimes I doubt it.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Guernsey Pete

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Probably many filters are a bit clogged with all the poo they've had to deal with lately.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

It's a handy device, Pete. It's also pretty good at comparing "facts" to previously acquired knowledge, and determining whether the "facts" or the previously acquired knowledge fit together, and reconciling the whole thing.
Pretty neat, huh?

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky

Re: History of the low whistle ?

But if you had no previously acquired knowledge on the subject and were limited to one faulty information source you might be given the story that the low whistle migrated from Eastern Europe during the expansion of the Roman Empire as the Celts were pushed further towards the western fringe of the continent. Stopping at Stonehenge, the druids low whistled their way through the Cliffs of Moher as Boudicca prepared to slaughter the 2nd legion. However, condensation being a large problem with these things the b part came off bad in turn causing the british Celts to be likewise slaughtered, a few Druids managing to boat it over to Hibernia carrying with them their sacred low D whistles.
Or perhaps the low D's were drown out by the pounding of that ancient war drum the Bod'run....

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by shanty

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Spot on shanty. The gods got cheesed of with the druids and upon them he set great condensation and volume problems, paving the way for christianity in the British Isles. Low whistles were banished to the extreme west coastal areas where they had to be buried for centuries, as the Romans and further waves of invaders seen them as powerful instruments of war, as well as paisley pattern shirts.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Yes, but their usefulness in war pretty much disappeared after the invention of the gun, since someone could shoot you and be out of range of being hit by a low whistle.

That was until they invented the low whistle catapult. One of those things flying at 90mph is going to do some damage!

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by DrSilverSpear

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I wouldn't say that the Low D whistle in its current form has been around for centuries, but six hole whistles of all sizes and shapes have been around for not just centuries, but for millenia. This is kind of like the "how long has the bodhran been around" debate. In its current form and as it is currently played, a few decades, but I would hate to say that no one in Ireland ever played a frame drum before the modern bodhran came on the scene.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by AlBrown

Re: History of the low whistle ?

I may be wrong, so check Wikipedia. I think it was actually a bagpipe catapult. Whistlers' used low whistle crossbows. 8-)

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Terrifying for the enemy too - that piercing c# as the whistle came screaming towards them.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Run away!!!!

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by shanty

Re: History of the low whistle ?

If I saw a set of bagpipes flying through the air over my castle walls, I'd definitely panic.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by DrSilverSpear

Re: History of the low whistle ?

You've got a castle?

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

So Hadrians wall was built to to keep out/in a load of fierce guys with low whistles and the term 'pict' is a reference to their paisley pattern shirts ?

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by David50

Re: History of the low whistle ?

No, it was built to stop the bl00dy Northumbrians from trying to nick the Scottish tunes of course. Similar reason to why we knocked down the giants causeway.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by bogman

Re: History of the low whistle ?

No, bogman. Sadly I don't.

But I frequently suffer from people trying to lob bagpipes through my fourth floor window. Bloody neds.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by DrSilverSpear

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Oh. That said, if anyone wants to lob a full set of uilleann pipes in B through my window, feel free.

# Posted on June 6th 2010 by DrSilverSpear

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Galpin Collection, Boston
Duct flute
Labeled: J & H, English, late 19th century?
London, England
Brass
http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?coll_keywords=17.1838

# Posted on July 17th 2010 by Ben Steen

Re: History of the low whistle ?

Duck flute
Native American
The New World
late 19th century?
http://www.rickhellerflutes.com/32_wood_duck_flute.html




:)

# Posted on July 17th 2010 by shanty

Not a member yet? Sign up!

forgotten your password?

Frequently Asked Questions

Enter your email address to have your password sent to you.