Hey guys, I'm wondering, is there a special kind of capo that is used by the trad players who switch quickly in the middle of a set, or are they just really fast and accurate with their Kysers?
Some folks, including Vincent Fogarty of the Red Wellies, use those old-style red rubber band capos and do real well with 'em.
I got some QuickDraw capos when I first discovered them (I think in '03) and I really like 'em. They don't fit on all instruments, tho.
If an instrument has a volute or a hand contour on the back of the neck opposite the nut, then the QD can't rest behind the nut.
I've used a Kyser for years. I can't think of anything that's faster to change. I prefer a metal bar for the capo but the Kyser is a one-handed operation that takes less than a second to move. Plus you can clip it on the headstock when you're not using it. It's also easy to clamp at an angle to the frets.
The Quickdraw works extremely well, I have one on my Drop-D guitar, GDAD zouk, and CGAD mandola.
They can be a bit hard to install at first, and you may have to periodically tighten the eyebolt as the spring tension loosens a bit with time, but I really like them.
One hint from a friend, if you wear standard rubber kitchen gloves, it makes it much easier to grip the capo when you're first doing the installation, trying to get the eyebolt over the end of the capo bar.
quick draws are the best. Kysers are good, but they wear away much too fast. Dunlop triggers last longer, but are much stiffer than the kysers so you've got to be quick and strong - quick draw is the way forward (if it'll fit up the neck).
Why not get shot of the capodastra and learn to play in the different modes/ keys? Then you’ll find different voicings to go with the different modes/ keys. When I’m at a session watching the DADGAD boys play the same fingering clichés over and over again albeit with the capo moved up or down, I think how tedious a world they must inhabit! It’s like keyboard players who only ever play in C and use the transposition knob to play in other keys. Doing this and using a capo means you do not get a full sense of playing in the different modes/ keys and the miss the character of the that each key/ mode exhibits under your finger tips. Or is it that you only ever want to PLAY IN THE FIRST POSITION? (!)
Yeah, right, where's the spirit of make-it-yourself and improvise, that we had to employ due to our sheer poverty, all those years ago.
If I'd been rich I'd have never learnt how to make instruments, I'd have just bought them new !
I'm at one with yhaalhouse, spot on, nothing more dispiriting than watching and listening to a player in DADGAD, just sliding the capo up and down the neck at each key-change. But then, I don't play a guitar in sessions any more, I prefer a 'zouk, play the tunes half the time, only back when I don't know the tune well enough to maintain the melody line.
Holy smoke - I just watched the video on the Glider homepage. That was so fast that I literally didn't see it move the first time. That'd be a nice toy to have, although I honestly can't say that I need something that switches positions that fast but now I see what you mean. A Kyser definitely won't do that.
When I was a kid I didn't have a capo but fixed the back of a fork to the neck of my guitar with an elastic band.
I've used a kyser for 5 or so years.. It is faster than a standard capo.
In my church existance, it is nice when the liturginazi uses some grossly overproduced choral number with key changes from d flat to f to A flat over 132 bars.
But it only is not noticable when I have a couple of other instruments that can do the key change bar. On a really good day, it takes a couple of counts to make the capo switch and a couple of beats to get the hand back into position. Actually, only on a realllllllly good day.
From my engineer existance. The Kyser puts a huge amount of force on the string behind the fret because of the spring mechanism. Much more than the old fork and elastic and more sophisticated variations thereof.
Particularly on frets 1 through 3 where most guitar players use it to get keys of F, E flat, B flat etc, at the first and second strings (e and b comng up from the bottom of the fret board) the damped vibration at the fret under pressure over time causes grooving of the fret, thus buzz.
I know several serious guitar player freinds who have had this problem. I have a 10 year old Martin (purchased from a freind) that has some of this and I am considering getting some fret repairs done (except that I am also thinking about buying a new box and have a limited budget of Herself's tolerance in my music and instrument expenditures!)
I am pro capo, but also pro learning more chords. I recently found this nice voicing for an F major chord.
3
0
2
3
0
X
thing is, your guitar has to be tuned well to play in keys not closely related to D (exception is D minor), or in keys where the D note doesn't play as strong of a role, because the instrument will always be resonating those D strings. . I notice it is harder to stay in tune while attempting to play in the key of C for example, . Maybe it would be better to capo 5th and play in G, then the three drone strings will at least be sounding the dominant when they freely vibrate while you play. Of course if you just play the melody you don't have as much of this problem, because there is less time for the guitar to start playing itself in between each note.
'Why not get shot of the capodastra and learn to play in the different modes/ keys? Then you’ll find different voicings to go with the different modes/ keys.'
I use a quickdraw with open tunings, I use it because it enables the use of the kind of modal drone based chords that really suit trad. It's not out of laziness or lack of knowledge of the fretboard. I could play all day in standard tuning or drop D without using a capo but I just don't think that sound suits the music in a general session situation.
John Doyle is great at what he does and it suits Liz Carroll very well, one of the best trad gigs I ever saw was the two of them really on fire, but it sure doesn't suit sessions when people try to imitate him or Cooney for that matter. Those guys are unique, any imitation is gonna be poor.
It's all about what suits the music at any given time. The dynamic of a session can change so much, the capo enables versatility, not using a capo is actually more limiting.
Get a quickdraw, it takes time to set them up right but once you do you should have no problem on any fret.
My 2 euro cents.........
I stay away from DADGAD for the most part, because it's about the most boring tuning to play in, but if you're going to use it, you really ought to be able to play in any key without a capo. E flat minor might be a bit of a stretch, but surely you can find your way around in almost anything else. Learn a song in B flat, and really make it sound good. If you can't think of a song in B flat, think of a song you sing in A and play it in B flat, or move one down from C. Likewise for all the other keys you can think of. You may never play the song that way in public, but the effort will pay off in the ability to reach for a chord and know that it's there, without thinking about it - that is, in knowing how to play the guitar in DADGAD.
Then you can use the capo if you want, and it'll be a tool, not a crutch.
It seems that the dots on the 5th 7th and 12th frets were originally holes through the neck, and the capo was a T-shape that went through the neck and was tightened with a wing-nut type fastener at the back. Things have certainly sped up since!
I know a guy who plays in DADGAD & and uses a Chub which he can move quickly and to good effect, even if this involves just unclipping it and letting it drop, but it dose involve a little planning/arranging of sets before hand. I also know a DADGAD player who just plays without and can cover all the keys on the fly, impressive, each to their own as there seems to be advantages to both approaches and both are really quite good at what they do.
I've known a few to use the quick move method with various types of capo, but IMO a lot of the time the tuning is pants after the move. To my ear thats an issue that's hard to resolve so I do without generally when backing.
I use a capo on guitar (I tuned to standard) on the first fret when I find myself in company that play tuned up a semi tone and for trad thats about the only time I'll use one. Backing songs the capo is very useful though and a different matter.
Yeah I don't like my tuning when I put a capo on, take it off, or move it. For that reason it's good to have a working knowledge of the fretboard. it's risky to move the capo mid set, but that can have a lot to do with the guitar action, some guitars might do fine with it, mine doesn't.
I can't recall ever placing a capo without needing to tweak the tuning. I might forgo satisfying that need in some circumstances, but it's always there.
I'd like to think that, given the vagaries of instrument construction, nevertheless, if it is properly built, an instrument where you move the capo should stay in tune IF you have correctly placed the capo.
There are capos where you need to be sure that it is squarely placed on the fingerboard before you operate whatever mechanism it is that holds it down tight - some capos do put a bit of side-pull on when you operate them, and this is probably what is causing the problem, some strings are being pulled more than others, so you are now out of tune. Most people just operate the things without looking at what is actually going on on the fretboard. It might surprise you if you have a close look as you operate it.
Also, second thought, if you are playing in DADGAD, but using a standard stringing, not a DADGAD-intended set of strings, there will be marked variations in the tension from string to string, so any side-pulling, as I suggested, will cause marked variations in string tension and thus tuning.
quick slide capo, a myth?
quick slide capo, a myth?
Hey guys, I'm wondering, is there a special kind of capo that is used by the trad players who switch quickly in the middle of a set, or are they just really fast and accurate with their Kysers?
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by vacoreye
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
http://www.quickdrawcapo.com/
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by t byrne
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
There's the Glider, which I've seen used by Nancy Conescu. Never tried it myself, though
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Some folks, including Vincent Fogarty of the Red Wellies, use those old-style red rubber band capos and do real well with 'em.
I got some QuickDraw capos when I first discovered them (I think in '03) and I really like 'em. They don't fit on all instruments, tho.
If an instrument has a volute or a hand contour on the back of the neck opposite the nut, then the QD can't rest behind the nut.
stv
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by stv culchie
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I've used a Kyser for years. I can't think of anything that's faster to change. I prefer a metal bar for the capo but the Kyser is a one-handed operation that takes less than a second to move. Plus you can clip it on the headstock when you're not using it. It's also easy to clamp at an angle to the frets.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by gravelwalks
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I was playing in a session with Ian Lambe a few years back and he was experimenting with a sliding capo.
I'd say, watch John Doyle - what capo?
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by Toppish
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
The Quickdraw works extremely well, I have one on my Drop-D guitar, GDAD zouk, and CGAD mandola.
They can be a bit hard to install at first, and you may have to periodically tighten the eyebolt as the spring tension loosens a bit with time, but I really like them.
One hint from a friend, if you wear standard rubber kitchen gloves, it makes it much easier to grip the capo when you're first doing the installation, trying to get the eyebolt over the end of the capo bar.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by Michael Eskin
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I just bought a quick draw and its grand better and faster than kyser but a bit slack on the first and second fret.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by FergalOH
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
quick draws are the best. Kysers are good, but they wear away much too fast. Dunlop triggers last longer, but are much stiffer than the kysers so you've got to be quick and strong - quick draw is the way forward (if it'll fit up the neck).
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by farmerboy
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
http://www.glidercapo.com/
weeeeeeeeeeeeeee
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by Hugo Chavez
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Why not get shot of the capodastra and learn to play in the different modes/ keys? Then you’ll find different voicings to go with the different modes/ keys. When I’m at a session watching the DADGAD boys play the same fingering clichés over and over again albeit with the capo moved up or down, I think how tedious a world they must inhabit! It’s like keyboard players who only ever play in C and use the transposition knob to play in other keys. Doing this and using a capo means you do not get a full sense of playing in the different modes/ keys and the miss the character of the that each key/ mode exhibits under your finger tips. Or is it that you only ever want to PLAY IN THE FIRST POSITION? (!)
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by yhaalhouse
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Yeah, forget capos and learn some more chords.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by timmy!
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I saw john martyn do a concert once where he showed off a finger-picking tune he'd recorded in the 60s
he said guitarists were tying themselves in knots trying to replicate it and thought he must be some kind of wizard
then he said "watch"
He played the melody open tuned then just slid the capo up and down to different positions while playing
very amusing
I think he'd put bits of tubing on the capo to make it roll up and down easily
of course, young people today, too difficult for them, have to buy one ready-made ....
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by Bren
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Yeah, right, where's the spirit of make-it-yourself and improvise, that we had to employ due to our sheer poverty, all those years ago.
If I'd been rich I'd have never learnt how to make instruments, I'd have just bought them new !
I'm at one with yhaalhouse, spot on, nothing more dispiriting than watching and listening to a player in DADGAD, just sliding the capo up and down the neck at each key-change. But then, I don't play a guitar in sessions any more, I prefer a 'zouk, play the tunes half the time, only back when I don't know the tune well enough to maintain the melody line.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Holy smoke - I just watched the video on the Glider homepage. That was so fast that I literally didn't see it move the first time. That'd be a nice toy to have, although I honestly can't say that I need something that switches positions that fast but now I see what you mean. A Kyser definitely won't do that.
When I was a kid I didn't have a capo but fixed the back of a fork to the neck of my guitar with an elastic band.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by gravelwalks
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I've used a kyser for 5 or so years.. It is faster than a standard capo.
In my church existance, it is nice when the liturginazi uses some grossly overproduced choral number with key changes from d flat to f to A flat over 132 bars.
But it only is not noticable when I have a couple of other instruments that can do the key change bar. On a really good day, it takes a couple of counts to make the capo switch and a couple of beats to get the hand back into position. Actually, only on a realllllllly good day.
Two bars is more realistic.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by zippydw
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
forgot to mention the downside of the Kyser.
From my engineer existance. The Kyser puts a huge amount of force on the string behind the fret because of the spring mechanism. Much more than the old fork and elastic and more sophisticated variations thereof.
Particularly on frets 1 through 3 where most guitar players use it to get keys of F, E flat, B flat etc, at the first and second strings (e and b comng up from the bottom of the fret board) the damped vibration at the fret under pressure over time causes grooving of the fret, thus buzz.
I know several serious guitar player freinds who have had this problem. I have a 10 year old Martin (purchased from a freind) that has some of this and I am considering getting some fret repairs done (except that I am also thinking about buying a new box and have a limited budget of Herself's tolerance in my music and instrument expenditures!)
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by zippydw
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I play DADGAD with a Capo.
I leave it on the 5'th fret and play everything up 5. I don't like the heavy guitar sound.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by Hugo Chavez
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Doyle does use a capo, along with most other great guitar players out there.
# Posted on June 1st 2010 by pipersgrip
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
So, since I use a capo, I am also one of those "most other great guitar players out there"?
Thanks for the props, Jonny!
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by AlBrown
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
You could be. I was just saying that most everyone uses a capo, including some of the best.
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by pipersgrip
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Just kidding, it would only take a tune or two for you to see that I am far from one of the best!
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by AlBrown
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
lol, I hear you there.
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by pipersgrip
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I am pro capo, but also pro learning more chords. I recently found this nice voicing for an F major chord.
3
0
2
3
0
X
thing is, your guitar has to be tuned well to play in keys not closely related to D (exception is D minor), or in keys where the D note doesn't play as strong of a role, because the instrument will always be resonating those D strings. . I notice it is harder to stay in tune while attempting to play in the key of C for example, . Maybe it would be better to capo 5th and play in G, then the three drone strings will at least be sounding the dominant when they freely vibrate while you play. Of course if you just play the melody you don't have as much of this problem, because there is less time for the guitar to start playing itself in between each note.
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Oh, there's no 5th in that F chord, so it's a D minor chord if you play the open D
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
'Why not get shot of the capodastra and learn to play in the different modes/ keys? Then you’ll find different voicings to go with the different modes/ keys.'
I use a quickdraw with open tunings, I use it because it enables the use of the kind of modal drone based chords that really suit trad. It's not out of laziness or lack of knowledge of the fretboard. I could play all day in standard tuning or drop D without using a capo but I just don't think that sound suits the music in a general session situation.
John Doyle is great at what he does and it suits Liz Carroll very well, one of the best trad gigs I ever saw was the two of them really on fire, but it sure doesn't suit sessions when people try to imitate him or Cooney for that matter. Those guys are unique, any imitation is gonna be poor.
It's all about what suits the music at any given time. The dynamic of a session can change so much, the capo enables versatility, not using a capo is actually more limiting.
Get a quickdraw, it takes time to set them up right but once you do you should have no problem on any fret.
My 2 euro cents.........
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by The Tune Composer
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I stay away from DADGAD for the most part, because it's about the most boring tuning to play in, but if you're going to use it, you really ought to be able to play in any key without a capo. E flat minor might be a bit of a stretch, but surely you can find your way around in almost anything else. Learn a song in B flat, and really make it sound good. If you can't think of a song in B flat, think of a song you sing in A and play it in B flat, or move one down from C. Likewise for all the other keys you can think of. You may never play the song that way in public, but the effort will pay off in the ability to reach for a chord and know that it's there, without thinking about it - that is, in knowing how to play the guitar in DADGAD.
Then you can use the capo if you want, and it'll be a tool, not a crutch.
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Just to clarify, I don't use DADGAD with the quickdraw. Mainly Open G and a few related tunings. I'm not much of a DADGAD fan myself
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by The Tune Composer
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
It seems that the dots on the 5th 7th and 12th frets were originally holes through the neck, and the capo was a T-shape that went through the neck and was tightened with a wing-nut type fastener at the back. Things have certainly sped up since!
# Posted on June 2nd 2010 by gam
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I know a guy who plays in DADGAD & and uses a Chub which he can move quickly and to good effect, even if this involves just unclipping it and letting it drop, but it dose involve a little planning/arranging of sets before hand. I also know a DADGAD player who just plays without and can cover all the keys on the fly, impressive, each to their own as there seems to be advantages to both approaches and both are really quite good at what they do.
I've known a few to use the quick move method with various types of capo, but IMO a lot of the time the tuning is pants after the move. To my ear thats an issue that's hard to resolve so I do without generally when backing.
I use a capo on guitar (I tuned to standard) on the first fret when I find myself in company that play tuned up a semi tone and for trad thats about the only time I'll use one. Backing songs the capo is very useful though and a different matter.
# Posted on June 3rd 2010 by Solidmahog
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Yeah I don't like my tuning when I put a capo on, take it off, or move it. For that reason it's good to have a working knowledge of the fretboard. it's risky to move the capo mid set, but that can have a lot to do with the guitar action, some guitars might do fine with it, mine doesn't.
# Posted on June 3rd 2010 by Earl Cameron
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I can't recall ever placing a capo without needing to tweak the tuning. I might forgo satisfying that need in some circumstances, but it's always there.
# Posted on June 4th 2010 by Bob himself
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
I'd like to think that, given the vagaries of instrument construction, nevertheless, if it is properly built, an instrument where you move the capo should stay in tune IF you have correctly placed the capo.
There are capos where you need to be sure that it is squarely placed on the fingerboard before you operate whatever mechanism it is that holds it down tight - some capos do put a bit of side-pull on when you operate them, and this is probably what is causing the problem, some strings are being pulled more than others, so you are now out of tune. Most people just operate the things without looking at what is actually going on on the fretboard. It might surprise you if you have a close look as you operate it.
# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: quick slide capo, a myth?
Also, second thought, if you are playing in DADGAD, but using a standard stringing, not a DADGAD-intended set of strings, there will be marked variations in the tension from string to string, so any side-pulling, as I suggested, will cause marked variations in string tension and thus tuning.
# Posted on June 5th 2010 by Guernsey Pete