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Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
The box is a really diverse, for lack of a better word, instrument. Keys, fingereing, expression.
Anyway. I play B/C as most folks here know, on a Saltarelle 2 1/2 row, though I started on 2 row. As I get more experience, I am more-and-more appreciating the differences/strengths and different character of the two types of boxes.
Brings me to the topic I have been thinking about. I know it gets beaten on alot among the box players here, but I am looking for some serious advice and want to use the Mustard Board for what it does best. Stick a topic out and read what comes back....So here goes.
C#/D. Why.
You play key of D as one row. E and A become your primary cross row keys. G becomes almost unplayable since it is like F on the B/C. Am I right in this assessment?
Some say it is better for playing with the fiddles. But, in all the sessions I have been to, the fiddles play in G and D and their related minors just like the rest of us. Which means the C#/D has limited utility. From what I can tell the really good box players also play what I think is a B Flat box. (I may be wrong on the key) when they have to get int oother keys.
I have been thinking about either new reeds on the 2 row or just dropping for a new 2 row which My Teacher who also happens to be the main American Saltarelle dealer would be quite pleased to sell me. In my idle musings, I am wondering if there would be value to getting the new box in a C#/D.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
G seems awkward at first on the C#/D for those of us who started up and down the D row. It really only needs a grab of Cnat on the C# row and a bit more moving of the hand. I often wish I had one more finger for G tunes.
I wonder if the key of F on the B/C seems hard since it doesn't get out much in Irish music.
I have enough trouble learning one system without switching. If you can master B/C and C#/D more power to you!
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Julian Sutton, as good as any box player there is round my part of England, plays a B/C/C#. It seems able to handle anything trad might throw at it and he's arrived at using this kind after a long time playing other sorts, so he obviously thinks it has the most advantages.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
>I play B/C as most folks here know, on a Saltarelle 2 1/2 row
Zip, as I "play" (play on peoples' nerves more like) a 2-row D/G box, I am curious as to what the extra half row is on the 2 and a half B/C box is - what scale is it please?
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
I think curamach is right. F on B/C and G on C#/D are exactly the same level of difficulty because they are identical, but F on B/C seems harder because there's so few tunes in F that there's not much chance to practice unless you make a conscious effort.
One could probably do a nice little statistical study of B/C and C#/D players to compare the relative frequencies of tunes in their repertoire in one sharp vs two sharps that might provide evidence for or against your hypothesis. I almost wish I had time to do it, but I shouldn't even be taking the time to read this today.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
so why is it that the Anglo Concertina is D/G and not C#/D or B/C? I never understood why one has rows a half step apart and the other rows a 5th apart
...not to muddy the waters, but if anybody had some insight on that, they would probably be hitting this thread, so I thought I'd ask
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
I think the DG is a strange idea for Irish music, unless you really want two one row melodeons in the same box. However, I can't see much difference between C#D and BC in the long run. Many people have claimed that C#D leads to more bellows action and the BC is more often awkward but ultimately the difference seem to be nuances in the playing. There is no question there are tunes where the difference becomes obvious in the way the tune sounds but I have yet to hear a tune on the C#D that could not be played by an expert on the BC and vice versa. I play BC because that is how I started and have no desire to try to switch. Can't see the advantage.
I play a bit of D melodeon. Someone might say it would be logical to go from that to the C#D and back but I'm not convinced. Because I am not used to a D row, my fingers know that the melodeon is a completely different instrument. I suspect that if I was used to a C#D I would constantly be reaching for accidentals that aren't there.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
nfldbox,
D/G doesn't have to be played as if it was two one row melodeons, it gives you scope for cross row ornamentation, and keys that require both rows, such as D and A mixolydian.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
[I wonder if the key of F on the B/C seems hard since it doesn't get out much in Irish music.] it gets out all the time in the clare (esp but not limited to east clare)/east galway music, and if you like that patch of ground, sooner or later, you gotta take the plunge and learn play your G tunes in f......i'm sort of at that point now of trying it on box and concertina, and it's not that bad.
the brilliant thing about b/c is, it's completely playable albeit in "smooth" style, for an abundance of keys found in irish music---D, A-major, e-major, e-minor.
on top of which, it's completely playable in "press-draw" style for still more keys found in irish music----C and F
plus, G-maj and a-minor are brilliant on b/c. i subjectively experience those as half-and-half press-draw/smooth on b/c tho others may experience it differently. but i find them a blast to play G-maj and a-minor i love b/c for these keys.
so when you total it all up, between your "smooth" keys plus your "press-draw" keys, that's a passel of irish music keys easily accessed on b/c.
with c#/d i don't think that total amounts to as many keys found in irish music. plus, more c#/d players seem to have a b/c on hand than b/c players keep another box on hand, perhaps because they wish to use press-draw to play flat keys. but my attitude is, who wants to lug around two? i love the fact that you can become a stylist in terms of learning both press-draw and smooth, and do it all on b/c...
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
zippy, I tend to dabble with instruments, and sometimes get the urge to try something new. This had led me to play a number of instruments (tin whistle, accordion, and harmonica, not to mention guitar), and instead of focusing my attention, I am learning the same tunes over on different instruments, and splitting my attention, which limits my progress in mastering the fundamentals on any one of the instruments. I do not recommend that path. You have made a very committed effort to learn the B/C box, I say, stick with it, hone your skills on it, better to be really good on one instrument rather than launch into something new.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
What is a hard key on a C#/D ?
I get funny looks sometimes from our C#/D box player when I start a tune in F and am wondering if it's just because of the key, or something else
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
F would be pretty tricky on the C#/D,I'd think. At least, I find E flat difficult on the B/C. But maybe it's because I'm used to D and haven't learned my way around it yet.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
B wouldn't be so comfortable, playing all on the outer row. Playing D tunes in C is fun, though. I try not to do a lot of that, because it's not polite to the whistle players.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Whew...It has been a long day. Duty calleth and I am just catching up. The thread took some interesting turns
Al.... I play a bunch of instruments (a dabbler like you). I understand your thought. But life's short so I will give things a shot, which is why I posed the question.. Beside's what's life w/o a challenge
Bren....F. It is a piano player's key. Piano Nazi's rule 'most' of the music world, so if you do ensemble, you are stuck playing with them since most of them can't transpose for c**p. Not like ITM players who move from key-to-key (but we don't know what key we are in half the time!)
Addressing another question, that's the value of the 2 1/2 row. You get an extra F and B flat and a bunch of accidentals to the ITM keys, and a C on the draw if I recall. It allows me the cosmic solace to say ' Fie on the Piano Nazi's. I can do what they can'
What about the reason for playing with the FidKids, since the fiddlers seem to rule the ITM roost (as it were)
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
As a free reed player only of the english concertina, I am well away from the knowledge centre of this discussion.
However, what it seems to me is, that on a B/C all tunes are equally awkward, whatever their key, so once you get over that awkwardness then they're all equally easy.
On a D/G they're mainly on one row, easy-peasy.
Why do Irish players use the C/G concertina ? Because these were the cheap ones easily available in the early days. So it's just tradition, and habits of longstanding. Once you are used to that instrument, it becomes the norm. Anyone trying something different becomes the exception, by definition, unless everyone follows him/her, as in the adoption of tenor banjos, bouzoukis, low whistles, etc.
I'm just curious historically. When did the B/C box come in ? Dates, times, places, musicians ?
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
I dont know exactly when the B/C system arrived... but there's a few early recordings around 1910, with what might be B/C or C#/D boxes... the leaflet of the topic record "Melodeon greats" says that Peter Wyper, who recorded on cylinders, somewhere around the 20ties, used a C/C#. Jimmy Shand used a B/C/C# (still used by some of our friends in Mustardia). After some researchzes on the histora of the accordion, it seems that all over the 19th century, a lot of different systems were invented, keeping the push-pull system of melodeons, each region modifying the instrument to fit with the musical style. Hence the G/C in France, the D/G in England, the B/C in Scotland and Ireland... and then, as you say, it's habit of longstanding. in the early 20es, a box was worth a month's pay (worker), whilst a fiddle was at least 6 month's pay...
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
zippydw, I know what you mean about new challenges. I am trying to resist the temptation, but sometime before I die, I would not be surprised if I work up my courage and start on the fiddle!
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
"B wouldn't be so comfortable, playing all on the outer row. "
Maybe so, Jon - I cannot comment, as I only have a one-row, and I can't really play that. But, in English trad, D/G boxes are used for playing tunes in D and G. Would playing tunes in B on a B/C be any different?
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Al, go for the fiddle. After 2 years, I'm finding there is hope and it's a great challenge. I didn't think it could be done. The real challenge is finding time to practice both the box and the fiddle. Time well spent, though.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Wow, fair play to all you folks, fiddle and box indeed. My Pop just picked up the box recently, and the whole push/pull making different notes with the same button thing just blows my string playing mind. Ouch.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
You're right, it's probably my style, come to think of it. I use a pretty flat fingering - I don't know if that's a transparent term, but I mean that I tend to have my fingers pointing more at the reeds than at the keyboard. I 'd guess that my fingers hit the keys at an angle of about thirty degrees, where I've seen lots of people coming straight down on the buttons, at close to a ninety degree angle.
So you can see how that would mean I'd have to adjust my hand position a bit to play all on the B row. If you're playing straight down on the buttons, however, I can see it being a lot more comfortable to work the B row, like a melodeon.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
...so yes, there is hope and it's never too late to spend quality time!
That being said, I should take my own medicine, I sure like the way boxes sound, but honestly, I'm not going near that contraption. I'll happily play fiddle with it, sure, but no buttons and reeds for me, thanks. I have to be able able to scratch it or pick it.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
SWFL Fiddler, the key to playing these instruments is having two great instructors. They both keep me going even when I really stink. I'm very lucky to have them.
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
The most challenging key on a C#/D is probably Gm, with F a close second. Then there's the flat keys, of course. But they are well worth the effort, and you'll be a better player for it.
So, if you play C#/D, try the Neckbelly on for size.(it's in F). Great fun. But Sharon Shannon plays it on D/D# box, methinks. It's somewhere on YouTube (transatlantic sessions) no time to look it up...
My own favourite study piece is the Kilfodda, also in F. Bellows reversal workout. Must be a breeze on a B/C by comparison...
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
hi Zip
stick with B/C
beacuse C#/D will give you a big comfort zone of D up and down the row and easy working basses that it will be increasingly hard to move out of
once you start leading your playing with the left hand buttons (which I as a D/G player used to do) it's all over - your right hand no longer has the same snap and you start to sound like a Gavioli steam organ with well-worn punch cards
you've invested tim in learning B/C and crossing the rows - don't throw it all away. If you want to play your B/C in C without doing the in-out grunt routine, use the Es and Bs on the outside row so that you still cross the rows and get some smooth figures like you do in D
F on a C#/D is like Eb Maj on B/C - it's playable
F on B/C is easy - transpose your G tunes if you need soething to practice - the Teetotaller's Reel works well in F
the most interesting key on B/C is B - it plays well both up and down the row and across the rows. If I were richer and had more time I'd get a D#/D box
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
MBC
I play a 12 bass club box and know the issue of leading with the left hand.
I have to go back and play one-handed to lose that.
Interesting conversation. I have to print this and read it on the train. It has been crazy at work....what I need to do to support the cost of my boxes!
Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
The box is a really diverse, for lack of a better word, instrument. Keys, fingereing, expression.
Anyway. I play B/C as most folks here know, on a Saltarelle 2 1/2 row, though I started on 2 row. As I get more experience, I am more-and-more appreciating the differences/strengths and different character of the two types of boxes.
Brings me to the topic I have been thinking about. I know it gets beaten on alot among the box players here, but I am looking for some serious advice and want to use the Mustard Board for what it does best. Stick a topic out and read what comes back....So here goes.
C#/D. Why.
You play key of D as one row. E and A become your primary cross row keys. G becomes almost unplayable since it is like F on the B/C. Am I right in this assessment?
Some say it is better for playing with the fiddles. But, in all the sessions I have been to, the fiddles play in G and D and their related minors just like the rest of us. Which means the C#/D has limited utility. From what I can tell the really good box players also play what I think is a B Flat box. (I may be wrong on the key) when they have to get int oother keys.
I have been thinking about either new reeds on the 2 row or just dropping for a new 2 row which My Teacher who also happens to be the main American Saltarelle dealer would be quite pleased to sell me. In my idle musings, I am wondering if there would be value to getting the new box in a C#/D.
As always, thoughts and advice always appreciated
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by zippydw
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
G seems awkward at first on the C#/D for those of us who started up and down the D row. It really only needs a grab of Cnat on the C# row and a bit more moving of the hand. I often wish I had one more finger for G tunes.
I wonder if the key of F on the B/C seems hard since it doesn't get out much in Irish music.
I have enough trouble learning one system without switching. If you can master B/C and C#/D more power to you!
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by curamach
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
PS. I should emphasize that I am not an expert- I have much to be modest about in my playing.
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by curamach
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Julian Sutton, as good as any box player there is round my part of England, plays a B/C/C#. It seems able to handle anything trad might throw at it and he's arrived at using this kind after a long time playing other sorts, so he obviously thinks it has the most advantages.
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by nicholas
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
>I play B/C as most folks here know, on a Saltarelle 2 1/2 row
Zip, as I "play" (play on peoples' nerves more like) a 2-row D/G box, I am curious as to what the extra half row is on the 2 and a half B/C box is - what scale is it please?
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
I think curamach is right. F on B/C and G on C#/D are exactly the same level of difficulty because they are identical, but F on B/C seems harder because there's so few tunes in F that there's not much chance to practice unless you make a conscious effort.
One could probably do a nice little statistical study of B/C and C#/D players to compare the relative frequencies of tunes in their repertoire in one sharp vs two sharps that might provide evidence for or against your hypothesis. I almost wish I had time to do it, but I shouldn't even be taking the time to read this today.
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by GaryAMartin
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
so why is it that the Anglo Concertina is D/G and not C#/D or B/C? I never understood why one has rows a half step apart and the other rows a 5th apart
...not to muddy the waters, but if anybody had some insight on that, they would probably be hitting this thread, so I thought I'd ask
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Think most Irish trad concertina players use C/G nowadays at any rate.
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by the wounded hussar
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
sorry hussar, my mistake...yes, C/G...I was out of my head there for a second but you are right...its C/G not D/G
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by Nate Ryan
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
I think the DG is a strange idea for Irish music, unless you really want two one row melodeons in the same box. However, I can't see much difference between C#D and BC in the long run. Many people have claimed that C#D leads to more bellows action and the BC is more often awkward but ultimately the difference seem to be nuances in the playing. There is no question there are tunes where the difference becomes obvious in the way the tune sounds but I have yet to hear a tune on the C#D that could not be played by an expert on the BC and vice versa. I play BC because that is how I started and have no desire to try to switch. Can't see the advantage.
I play a bit of D melodeon. Someone might say it would be logical to go from that to the C#D and back but I'm not convinced. Because I am not used to a D row, my fingers know that the melodeon is a completely different instrument. I suspect that if I was used to a C#D I would constantly be reaching for accidentals that aren't there.
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by nfldbox
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
nfldbox,
D/G doesn't have to be played as if it was two one row melodeons, it gives you scope for cross row ornamentation, and keys that require both rows, such as D and A mixolydian.
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by cathycook
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
[I wonder if the key of F on the B/C seems hard since it doesn't get out much in Irish music.] it gets out all the time in the clare (esp but not limited to east clare)/east galway music, and if you like that patch of ground, sooner or later, you gotta take the plunge and learn play your G tunes in f......i'm sort of at that point now of trying it on box and concertina, and it's not that bad.
the brilliant thing about b/c is, it's completely playable albeit in "smooth" style, for an abundance of keys found in irish music---D, A-major, e-major, e-minor.
on top of which, it's completely playable in "press-draw" style for still more keys found in irish music----C and F
plus, G-maj and a-minor are brilliant on b/c. i subjectively experience those as half-and-half press-draw/smooth on b/c tho others may experience it differently. but i find them a blast to play G-maj and a-minor i love b/c for these keys.
so when you total it all up, between your "smooth" keys plus your "press-draw" keys, that's a passel of irish music keys easily accessed on b/c.
with c#/d i don't think that total amounts to as many keys found in irish music. plus, more c#/d players seem to have a b/c on hand than b/c players keep another box on hand, perhaps because they wish to use press-draw to play flat keys. but my attitude is, who wants to lug around two? i love the fact that you can become a stylist in terms of learning both press-draw and smooth, and do it all on b/c...
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by ceemonster
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
zippy, I tend to dabble with instruments, and sometimes get the urge to try something new. This had led me to play a number of instruments (tin whistle, accordion, and harmonica, not to mention guitar), and instead of focusing my attention, I am learning the same tunes over on different instruments, and splitting my attention, which limits my progress in mastering the fundamentals on any one of the instruments. I do not recommend that path. You have made a very committed effort to learn the B/C box, I say, stick with it, hone your skills on it, better to be really good on one instrument rather than launch into something new.
# Posted on May 20th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
What is a hard key on a C#/D ?
I get funny looks sometimes from our C#/D box player when I start a tune in F and am wondering if it's just because of the key, or something else
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by Bren
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
B/C being such a popular tuning for the box, it's a wonder we don't hear more tunes in B.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
F would be pretty tricky on the C#/D,I'd think. At least, I find E flat difficult on the B/C. But maybe it's because I'm used to D and haven't learned my way around it yet.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
B wouldn't be so comfortable, playing all on the outer row. Playing D tunes in C is fun, though. I try not to do a lot of that, because it's not polite to the whistle players.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Whew...It has been a long day. Duty calleth and I am just catching up. The thread took some interesting turns
Al.... I play a bunch of instruments (a dabbler like you). I understand your thought. But life's short so I will give things a shot, which is why I posed the question.. Beside's what's life w/o a challenge
Bren....F. It is a piano player's key. Piano Nazi's rule 'most' of the music world, so if you do ensemble, you are stuck playing with them since most of them can't transpose for c**p. Not like ITM players who move from key-to-key (but we don't know what key we are in half the time!)
Addressing another question, that's the value of the 2 1/2 row. You get an extra F and B flat and a bunch of accidentals to the ITM keys, and a C on the draw if I recall. It allows me the cosmic solace to say ' Fie on the Piano Nazi's. I can do what they can'
What about the reason for playing with the FidKids, since the fiddlers seem to rule the ITM roost (as it were)
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by zippydw
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
>What is a hard key on a C#/D ?
In my experience, that would be the key that you are currently playing in.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
As a free reed player only of the english concertina, I am well away from the knowledge centre of this discussion.
However, what it seems to me is, that on a B/C all tunes are equally awkward, whatever their key, so once you get over that awkwardness then they're all equally easy.
On a D/G they're mainly on one row, easy-peasy.
Why do Irish players use the C/G concertina ? Because these were the cheap ones easily available in the early days. So it's just tradition, and habits of longstanding. Once you are used to that instrument, it becomes the norm. Anyone trying something different becomes the exception, by definition, unless everyone follows him/her, as in the adoption of tenor banjos, bouzoukis, low whistles, etc.
I'm just curious historically. When did the B/C box come in ? Dates, times, places, musicians ?
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
I dont know exactly when the B/C system arrived... but there's a few early recordings around 1910, with what might be B/C or C#/D boxes... the leaflet of the topic record "Melodeon greats" says that Peter Wyper, who recorded on cylinders, somewhere around the 20ties, used a C/C#. Jimmy Shand used a B/C/C# (still used by some of our friends in Mustardia). After some researchzes on the histora of the accordion, it seems that all over the 19th century, a lot of different systems were invented, keeping the push-pull system of melodeons, each region modifying the instrument to fit with the musical style. Hence the G/C in France, the D/G in England, the B/C in Scotland and Ireland... and then, as you say, it's habit of longstanding. in the early 20es, a box was worth a month's pay (worker), whilst a fiddle was at least 6 month's pay...
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
zippydw, I know what you mean about new challenges. I am trying to resist the temptation, but sometime before I die, I would not be surprised if I work up my courage and start on the fiddle!
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
"B wouldn't be so comfortable, playing all on the outer row. "
Maybe so, Jon - I cannot comment, as I only have a one-row, and I can't really play that. But, in English trad, D/G boxes are used for playing tunes in D and G. Would playing tunes in B on a B/C be any different?
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Al, go for the fiddle. After 2 years, I'm finding there is hope and it's a great challenge. I didn't think it could be done. The real challenge is finding time to practice both the box and the fiddle. Time well spent, though.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by boxielady
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
Wow, fair play to all you folks, fiddle and box indeed. My Pop just picked up the box recently, and the whole push/pull making different notes with the same button thing just blows my string playing mind. Ouch.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
You're right, it's probably my style, come to think of it. I use a pretty flat fingering - I don't know if that's a transparent term, but I mean that I tend to have my fingers pointing more at the reeds than at the keyboard. I 'd guess that my fingers hit the keys at an angle of about thirty degrees, where I've seen lots of people coming straight down on the buttons, at close to a ninety degree angle.
So you can see how that would mean I'd have to adjust my hand position a bit to play all on the B row. If you're playing straight down on the buttons, however, I can see it being a lot more comfortable to work the B row, like a melodeon.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
...so yes, there is hope and it's never too late to spend quality time!
That being said, I should take my own medicine, I sure like the way boxes sound, but honestly, I'm not going near that contraption. I'll happily play fiddle with it, sure, but no buttons and reeds for me, thanks. I have to be able able to scratch it or pick it.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
SWFL Fiddler, the key to playing these instruments is having two great instructors. They both keep me going even when I really stink. I'm very lucky to have them.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by boxielady
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
The most challenging key on a C#/D is probably Gm, with F a close second. Then there's the flat keys, of course. But they are well worth the effort, and you'll be a better player for it.
So, if you play C#/D, try the Neckbelly on for size.(it's in F). Great fun. But Sharon Shannon plays it on D/D# box, methinks. It's somewhere on YouTube (transatlantic sessions) no time to look it up...
My own favourite study piece is the Kilfodda, also in F. Bellows reversal workout. Must be a breeze on a B/C by comparison...
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by pennhorse
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
the bc[i think] came into poularity in the very early 1950s,as did the dg.
# Posted on May 21st 2010 by Dick Miles
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
hi Zip
stick with B/C
beacuse C#/D will give you a big comfort zone of D up and down the row and easy working basses that it will be increasingly hard to move out of
once you start leading your playing with the left hand buttons (which I as a D/G player used to do) it's all over - your right hand no longer has the same snap and you start to sound like a Gavioli steam organ with well-worn punch cards
you've invested tim in learning B/C and crossing the rows - don't throw it all away. If you want to play your B/C in C without doing the in-out grunt routine, use the Es and Bs on the outside row so that you still cross the rows and get some smooth figures like you do in D
F on a C#/D is like Eb Maj on B/C - it's playable
F on B/C is easy - transpose your G tunes if you need soething to practice - the Teetotaller's Reel works well in F
the most interesting key on B/C is B - it plays well both up and down the row and across the rows. If I were richer and had more time I'd get a D#/D box
keep the faith
# Posted on May 23rd 2010 by millionyears_bc
Re: Not being a Philistine. Just looking for some thoughts on boxes
MBC
I play a 12 bass club box and know the issue of leading with the left hand.
I have to go back and play one-handed to lose that.
Interesting conversation. I have to print this and read it on the train. It has been crazy at work....what I need to do to support the cost of my boxes!
# Posted on May 25th 2010 by zippydw