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Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I've been playing the banjo over 4 years. I've mostly learnt from sheet music. I haven't learnt any in a while and I want to get back into it. So my question is, is it better to learn tunes by ear; by just listening to cds (which I find harder) or should I listen to the tune and learn it from the sheet music together?
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Learn from every source you can possibly think of. Dots are good. Records are good. Internet is good. Learning at sessions are good. Lessons are good. Serendipity is good. It's all good. Learn from anything and anyone, all the time.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Learn from every source you can, but if my experience is any guide, you should first try your best to get the tunes by ear, either from the record or from a session near you. Give it a good go before you try the sheet music. If you do, you'll find the sheet music is easier to learn, which is good, and you might find you don't need the paper at all, which is better. And the more you practice learning by ear, the better you'll be at it, and it's a skill you really want to have.
That being said, there's no shame (despite what some may say) in learning tunes by reading - it's just that the other way works better, lasts longer, and makes you that much hipper.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
By ear. Break yourself of the dot habit. You should work hardest on learning from CDs since you find it challenging.
Let's put it this way. I know a couple of world class Irish musicians who barely read music at all. In contrast, the musicians around here who are wedded to dots aren't people we're happy to see when they walk into a session.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Seamus Ennis said you're supposed to do it like this.
7 years learning
7 years practicing
7 years playing
You say you've played over 4 years.
Have you done your 7 years learning and 7 years practicing?
If not, you'll need to start over again.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
As jwvansteenwyk says, all learning sources are valid - which includes learning by ear, dots, CDs, Internet etc.
But one caveat ...
Whereas you might become a good traditional musician by learning by ear alone, you could never do so just by reading dots, as the latter represent only an outline of what is actually played.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Much as I'd like to see the end of this thread Steve, you know as well as I do that it ain't gonna happen. Suffice it to say that I might as well repeat the mantra, just in case anyone might not have heard it:
The dots only contain a very small amount of the actual information needed to play. But the point is, the information in the dots - some of the main notes in order - is actually the easiest part of the music to pic up by ear. So if you are having trouble getting those bits by ear and think you need the dots, what chance have you getting the rest of it?
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I'm with the general trend of this thread - learn by ear wherever possible. Don't rule out dots altogether, as they can be a good source of tunes that you don't have recordings of. But always keep your ears open - and force yourself to pick up those elusive little twists and turns without seeking out sheet music. That's how to forge the neural pathways that make playing by ear second nature.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Yes, dots can be a good source of tunes that you don't have an aural source for. But beware that the world is chock-a-block with disastrous attempts at this from people without the prior knowledge that can only come from using your ears first
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
The dots, in my opinion, are the equivalent of watching someone's fingers while listening to him. Once you know what is happening physically, concentrate on what sound you are making. Does it sound the same? Or are you saying to yourself, 'It says there's a D here, and I'm playing the fingering for a D, so that must be OK.'
There are some types of music that can be learned from the dots -- traditional Irish is not one of them. By all means use sheet music, but only as an aid to getting the tune into your head. Discard (or file) the dots as soon as you can, and never play from them once you have learned the tune.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Listening is best... learning by ear follows, the dots are a last resort and/or a handy tool. But if you DO use the dots you must first learn the music so you know how to properly interpret the dots.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
It's possible to write out very detailed transcriptions with "the dots" including bowings, ornaments etc but this can prove to be very confusing and complicated for a beginner or inexperienced sight reader.
Moreover, it's only one player's interpretation of how a tune is played and he or she is probably unlikely to play any tune exactly the same way twice. Even then, you have to allow for the fact that the transcription may be inaccurate.
So, always use your ears and listen to as many versions/settings as you can. It's probably easier to pick up a tune this way than by referring to over complicated written arrangements. You can also get the "bare bones" notation but this is usually the opposite end of the extreme and tells you next to nothing about how a tune should sound.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Two things:
1. If you are having to go to the dots as a last resort because there is a bit you are missing, just imagine all the other more subtle bits you will also be missing. You have to be able to hear every thing that is going on.
2. There is a fundamental cognitive process in the playing of this music that has - or should have - very little to do with repetition. I'm not saying that memory doesn't play a part, but that the music is a delicate blending of memory and spontaneous creativity.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
both
learn song tunes by ear,then easy nursery rhymes,by ear,then polkas[egans britches full of stiches etc] and then jigs such as frost is all over lannigans ball,learn to sing them first.abandon the dots for six months
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Well said llig (no. 2), and I would add to the General's comments, learn some airs by ear, or at least join in. You have a bit time to listen while you play (wasn't that the name of a radio show?) and it trains your brain. There are actual physical changes that take place in there when you learn to play by ear, that are different from the changes that come from playing from the dots. They are not interchangeable, hence the difficulties often referred to.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I think it was "Music while you work", gam.
That takes us back a bit ! BBC Home Service (or was it he Light Programme ?) programme which began during WW2 so that the workers in the munitions factories had something to listen to. It carried on well into the fifties. I can still hear the signature tune!
I´m going by memory and haven´t checked any of this with Wikipedia, so I´m open to correction.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
However you decide learn at least a few tunes directly from a person who knows the tune, someone in the same room with you. When you do, listen to everything he or she does. They may play variations, though you will probably want to be more repetititive at 1st, & eventually come up with a few of your own variations. I would listen for their phrasing & emphasis.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
That is the best Random, I concur. That's old-school slow down software right there, a good friend to slowly dribble out a tricky twiddly bit for you in person.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Let me give this anecdote. I'm terribly "wedded" to sheet music. I've been using sheet music for like 21 odd years, so breaking into learning by ear is extremely difficult. So, I sympathize with what you are going through. That being said, I totally understand why these folks ask newcomers to try to learn the tunes by ear. It's the only way folks like us can develop those ear skills and make playing by ear just as "easy" as sight reading the sheet music. I can sound virtually flawless when I'm reading music, and I sound like an infant when working through things by ear, so I know how frustrating it can all be. I would say, just keep working at it. Use the dots in between, but try to pick things up by ear... you can always pick things out by ear, and if you have trouble memorizing it, notate it out so that you can make sense of what you hear on a recording.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
"Sheet music is also excellent when stacked up, in lieu of a seat cushion. It helps defeat the dreaded ailment known as session butt."
If it's tune books, though, you have to open them out. If you just sit on them closed, and then develop the dreaded ailment session sweaty-arse, you'll be sliding around all over the place on those glossy covers.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Fiddlechick7 - it's good to read this post. If I remember right, it wasn't too long ago that you were convinced you couldn't learn tunes without sheet music at all. Good on ya.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I have a friend who plays Taps at the local vets cemetary, and he has the notes to Tps tattooed around his wrist, perfectly spaced so that the tune ends just as you get back to the starting point. There was a discussion once about which notes in Taps were straight, and which were dotted, and he pulled up his sleeve and put the discussion to a quick end!
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Just imagine Mick Jager walking out onto the stage and setting up his music stand. He squints into the lights and mouths " I - can-nt-getno - sat-is-fact-ion." The Rolling Stones plod along and then come to a dead stop at the end of the song, they rustle through pages and then begin... "Brow-n-sug-ar..." Yawn.
Sheet music is a great tool for encoding and decoding tunes but the process can wring the life out the music. I am learning and I do enjoy going to a slow session where sheet music is used. But this session has its limitations. Nobody would dare to spontaneously start a new tune immediately after another tune ends because everyone has to stop to find the right page. Tempo can be way off because nobody has ever heard the tune. ie. The whistle player insists on starting Hector the Hero as a blistering jig because it is written in 6/8 time. One fiddle player can play anything in the book as long as the book is in front of him. Ornamentation and variation are lost. But I go to this slow session without fail, book in hand, because the group is welcoming, the sheet music helps me learn the tunes and I have a good time in spite of the limitations.
Then I go down to the pub session to hear how the music is really supposed to sound.
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
One day, as I wandered down a country road, I came upon a horse who lay sprawled out down in the ditch. As I lamented the passing of the unfortunate animal, along came a group of merrymaking folks who chattered endlessly about nonesuch and this and that. They approached me and asked " Now what is that which you look at so sadlly good sir?" I replied, "Well it seems to be a dead horse down there in the ditch." One of the merrymakers then said " I don't think it's dead, c'mon gang lets go make sure. " So, they all gathered long sticks and climbed down into the ditch. They began to beat the deceased horse mercilessly.
I turned and walked on down the road. As their cacauphony faded in the distance, I heard somone say. " Is it dead yet?" I don't know said another. " Well, we better give it some more good lashings." Whack! Bam! Smack! Blammo!Whack!............................................................
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
So many answers already - quite predictably!
I hope that this one isn' t a repeat:
1)The answer is relative of course!
2)Be Pragmatical!
3)Think long term AND short term.
Let me explain:
1) I'll use this image: If your mother's tongue is English, reading in this language can offer challenges but few objections. On the other hand, if you want to speak a foreign tongue properly and with conviction or even pass off for a native, you must concentrate as much as possible on the oral aspects of it (albeit using written media as a help some of the time) Do you see what I mean? How would you go about learning a regional accent of English for instance? Exposure is paramount. Token Cavan or Cork accents wouldn't do, so little can be written down. Immersion is your best tool. And recordings.
2)But be pragmatical: the pb w Irish trad is that it is played so fast usually and the tunes come with many variations and versions. Stick to one version ONLY til you have it. Try and get your hands on a 'tune slowing' software. Rewrite a score to fit the version you know. Swop Teacher/Pupil roles with a friend. Do all you need to GET the TUNES first; one tune and MANY tunes: play them often or regularly, in any sort of way but each THROUGH, there will always be time for refinement later: they get repeated a lot obviously. But you need the Fundation to build on. The Fundation is the tunes themselves!
3)Be aware that there are different types of 'memory'. Without getting into the finer neuropsychological concepts it can be summed up as: motor memory, pitch memory (than could mean playing tunes in several keys or on two different tin whistles for instance to match what you hear with what you will normally play), linguistic memory (ABC..., even the name of a tune), visual memory (score reading, finger staring!) and most importantly perhaps emotional memory. Try to get a nice blend of those and remember that your subconsious memory (mostly the motor, non neocortex part) is the fastest and surest. (Though sometimes very slow to 'take') Don't over load yourslef with too much visual or linguistic data. (eg: if you read a score, try to 'listen to the sound you make or ''listen' to your fingers' at the same time. And always alternate reading short bits with looking away. Also: look after yourself (sleep, food, joy!) It will help no end with the learning and the memorising!
4)Reading and following along can fool you in believing that you 'have' the tune. Be patient, practice slowly. You know you really have the tune when you can 'lead' a set or a session, playing half drunk and talking to your neighbour all at once: without rising eyebrows ;- ). These are the signs!
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
And, whatever method(s) you chose to follow, don't forget these three famous words of advice:
Repetition, repetition, repetition.
(It's both the drudgery and the magic of it because when it finally comes to you all the doubt, problems and shortcomings that seemed so real and permanent all at once are lifted! ...Til more trouble must be met by more repetition again of course!)
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
"should I listen to the tune and learn it from the sheet music together?" That's exactly it: triangulate, reinforce. Concentrate on the tunes you love.
Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I've been playing the banjo over 4 years. I've mostly learnt from sheet music. I haven't learnt any in a while and I want to get back into it. So my question is, is it better to learn tunes by ear; by just listening to cds (which I find harder) or should I listen to the tune and learn it from the sheet music together?
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Caoimhs
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Learn from every source you can possibly think of. Dots are good. Records are good. Internet is good. Learning at sessions are good. Lessons are good. Serendipity is good. It's all good. Learn from anything and anyone, all the time.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by jwvansteenwyk
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Yes.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Michele Sims
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
will do, thanx
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Caoimhs
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Learn from every source you can, but if my experience is any guide, you should first try your best to get the tunes by ear, either from the record or from a session near you. Give it a good go before you try the sheet music. If you do, you'll find the sheet music is easier to learn, which is good, and you might find you don't need the paper at all, which is better. And the more you practice learning by ear, the better you'll be at it, and it's a skill you really want to have.
That being said, there's no shame (despite what some may say) in learning tunes by reading - it's just that the other way works better, lasts longer, and makes you that much hipper.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
By ear. Break yourself of the dot habit. You should work hardest on learning from CDs since you find it challenging.
Let's put it this way. I know a couple of world class Irish musicians who barely read music at all. In contrast, the musicians around here who are wedded to dots aren't people we're happy to see when they walk into a session.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by ElaineT
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Seamus Ennis said you're supposed to do it like this.
7 years learning
7 years practicing
7 years playing
You say you've played over 4 years.
Have you done your 7 years learning and 7 years practicing?
If not, you'll need to start over again.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
That was the pipes. For the banjo, it's seven years tuning, seven years tuning, and seven years tuning. (Lather, rinse, repeat)
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Aa ha ha ha ha heeee heeee ha ha he heeee hooo.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
oh no, not again - make it stop ...
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Hup
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
As jwvansteenwyk says, all learning sources are valid - which includes learning by ear, dots, CDs, Internet etc.
But one caveat ...
Whereas you might become a good traditional musician by learning by ear alone, you could never do so just by reading dots, as the latter represent only an outline of what is actually played.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
So what's the bodhran? Seven seconds of stab stab stab, accompanied by the"Psycho" soundtrack?
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Pádraig
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Lose the dots. Elaine has it. The alpha and omega. Chapter and verse. Say no more. Stop now, O thread. Someone is watching and waiting in the wings...
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Much as I'd like to see the end of this thread Steve, you know as well as I do that it ain't gonna happen. Suffice it to say that I might as well repeat the mantra, just in case anyone might not have heard it:
The dots only contain a very small amount of the actual information needed to play. But the point is, the information in the dots - some of the main notes in order - is actually the easiest part of the music to pic up by ear. So if you are having trouble getting those bits by ear and think you need the dots, what chance have you getting the rest of it?
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by ...
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I'm with the general trend of this thread - learn by ear wherever possible. Don't rule out dots altogether, as they can be a good source of tunes that you don't have recordings of. But always keep your ears open - and force yourself to pick up those elusive little twists and turns without seeking out sheet music. That's how to forge the neural pathways that make playing by ear second nature.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Yes, dots can be a good source of tunes that you don't have an aural source for. But beware that the world is chock-a-block with disastrous attempts at this from people without the prior knowledge that can only come from using your ears first
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by ...
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I think use your ears first and last but dots can help in between.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Rob
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
The dots, in my opinion, are the equivalent of watching someone's fingers while listening to him. Once you know what is happening physically, concentrate on what sound you are making. Does it sound the same? Or are you saying to yourself, 'It says there's a D here, and I'm playing the fingering for a D, so that must be OK.'
There are some types of music that can be learned from the dots -- traditional Irish is not one of them. By all means use sheet music, but only as an aid to getting the tune into your head. Discard (or file) the dots as soon as you can, and never play from them once you have learned the tune.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by gam
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Listening is best... learning by ear follows, the dots are a last resort and/or a handy tool. But if you DO use the dots you must first learn the music so you know how to properly interpret the dots.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Phantom Button
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
It's possible to write out very detailed transcriptions with "the dots" including bowings, ornaments etc but this can prove to be very confusing and complicated for a beginner or inexperienced sight reader.
Moreover, it's only one player's interpretation of how a tune is played and he or she is probably unlikely to play any tune exactly the same way twice. Even then, you have to allow for the fact that the transcription may be inaccurate.
So, always use your ears and listen to as many versions/settings as you can. It's probably easier to pick up a tune this way than by referring to over complicated written arrangements. You can also get the "bare bones" notation but this is usually the opposite end of the extreme and tells you next to nothing about how a tune should sound.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Johnny Jay
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Two things:
1. If you are having to go to the dots as a last resort because there is a bit you are missing, just imagine all the other more subtle bits you will also be missing. You have to be able to hear every thing that is going on.
2. There is a fundamental cognitive process in the playing of this music that has - or should have - very little to do with repetition. I'm not saying that memory doesn't play a part, but that the music is a delicate blending of memory and spontaneous creativity.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by ...
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
both
learn song tunes by ear,then easy nursery rhymes,by ear,then polkas[egans britches full of stiches etc] and then jigs such as frost is all over lannigans ball,learn to sing them first.abandon the dots for six months
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Dick Miles
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Well said llig (no. 2), and I would add to the General's comments, learn some airs by ear, or at least join in. You have a bit time to listen while you play (wasn't that the name of a radio show?) and it trains your brain. There are actual physical changes that take place in there when you learn to play by ear, that are different from the changes that come from playing from the dots. They are not interchangeable, hence the difficulties often referred to.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by gam
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I think it was "Music while you work", gam.
That takes us back a bit ! BBC Home Service (or was it he Light Programme ?) programme which began during WW2 so that the workers in the munitions factories had something to listen to. It carried on well into the fifties. I can still hear the signature tune!
I´m going by memory and haven´t checked any of this with Wikipedia, so I´m open to correction.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by murfbox
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Reading sheet music by ear works fine for me.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by nicholas
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I hold the sheet music in my mouth and play the harmonica by ear.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Steve, that's terrible. I'm going to have to steal it.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
However you decide learn at least a few tunes directly from a person who knows the tune, someone in the same room with you. When you do, listen to everything he or she does. They may play variations, though you will probably want to be more repetititive at 1st, & eventually come up with a few of your own variations. I would listen for their phrasing & emphasis.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
That is the best Random, I concur. That's old-school slow down software right there, a good friend to slowly dribble out a tricky twiddly bit for you in person.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Sheet music is also excellent when stacked up, in lieu of a seat cushion. It helps defeat the dreaded ailment known as session butt.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Currently am learning the tune @ 2:21;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmQXiIEWce0
Now, if I could just get with my friend from out of town I may just get it.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Let me give this anecdote. I'm terribly "wedded" to sheet music. I've been using sheet music for like 21 odd years, so breaking into learning by ear is extremely difficult. So, I sympathize with what you are going through. That being said, I totally understand why these folks ask newcomers to try to learn the tunes by ear. It's the only way folks like us can develop those ear skills and make playing by ear just as "easy" as sight reading the sheet music. I can sound virtually flawless when I'm reading music, and I sound like an infant when working through things by ear, so I know how frustrating it can all be. I would say, just keep working at it. Use the dots in between, but try to pick things up by ear... you can always pick things out by ear, and if you have trouble memorizing it, notate it out so that you can make sense of what you hear on a recording.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Fiddlechick7
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
"Sheet music is also excellent when stacked up, in lieu of a seat cushion. It helps defeat the dreaded ailment known as session butt."
If it's tune books, though, you have to open them out. If you just sit on them closed, and then develop the dreaded ailment session sweaty-arse, you'll be sliding around all over the place on those glossy covers.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Fiddlechick7 - it's good to read this post. If I remember right, it wasn't too long ago that you were convinced you couldn't learn tunes without sheet music at all. Good on ya.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
That's good advice Mr. Shaw! Absorbency is what's needed, not water proof, that's key.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
And if you sweat on the dots, you might smear the ink, thereby introducing some much-needed ambiguity into the notation.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I have a tattoo of "Drowsy Maggie". Those inks are much more indelible than one might think.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I actually met a guy with the first two bars of the Bucks tattoed on his arm.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I'd nearly get that done myself
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by premier
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
That's pretty extreme, but if you can't remember it any other way....
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I think I'd be more worried if had the Concertina or the Britches tattooed there...
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Pádraig
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I bet if Sarah Palin played ITM she would have to rely on sheet music.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by Phantom Button
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
I have a friend who plays Taps at the local vets cemetary, and he has the notes to Tps tattooed around his wrist, perfectly spaced so that the tune ends just as you get back to the starting point. There was a discussion once about which notes in Taps were straight, and which were dotted, and he pulled up his sleeve and put the discussion to a quick end!
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Sarah Palin Is Cuddly
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by nicholas
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
No, Palin would have to write ABC on one hand, which thankfully would prevent her from playing more than a few notes at a time.
# Posted on May 17th 2010 by reenactor
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
Just imagine Mick Jager walking out onto the stage and setting up his music stand. He squints into the lights and mouths " I - can-nt-getno - sat-is-fact-ion." The Rolling Stones plod along and then come to a dead stop at the end of the song, they rustle through pages and then begin... "Brow-n-sug-ar..." Yawn.
Sheet music is a great tool for encoding and decoding tunes but the process can wring the life out the music. I am learning and I do enjoy going to a slow session where sheet music is used. But this session has its limitations. Nobody would dare to spontaneously start a new tune immediately after another tune ends because everyone has to stop to find the right page. Tempo can be way off because nobody has ever heard the tune. ie. The whistle player insists on starting Hector the Hero as a blistering jig because it is written in 6/8 time. One fiddle player can play anything in the book as long as the book is in front of him. Ornamentation and variation are lost. But I go to this slow session without fail, book in hand, because the group is welcoming, the sheet music helps me learn the tunes and I have a good time in spite of the limitations.
Then I go down to the pub session to hear how the music is really supposed to sound.
# Posted on May 18th 2010 by robertf
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
One day, as I wandered down a country road, I came upon a horse who lay sprawled out down in the ditch. As I lamented the passing of the unfortunate animal, along came a group of merrymaking folks who chattered endlessly about nonesuch and this and that. They approached me and asked " Now what is that which you look at so sadlly good sir?" I replied, "Well it seems to be a dead horse down there in the ditch." One of the merrymakers then said " I don't think it's dead, c'mon gang lets go make sure. " So, they all gathered long sticks and climbed down into the ditch. They began to beat the deceased horse mercilessly.
I turned and walked on down the road. As their cacauphony faded in the distance, I heard somone say. " Is it dead yet?" I don't know said another. " Well, we better give it some more good lashings." Whack! Bam! Smack! Blammo!Whack!............................................................
# Posted on May 18th 2010 by Gone to work
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
So many answers already - quite predictably!
I hope that this one isn' t a repeat:
1)The answer is relative of course!
2)Be Pragmatical!
3)Think long term AND short term.
Let me explain:
1) I'll use this image: If your mother's tongue is English, reading in this language can offer challenges but few objections. On the other hand, if you want to speak a foreign tongue properly and with conviction or even pass off for a native, you must concentrate as much as possible on the oral aspects of it (albeit using written media as a help some of the time) Do you see what I mean? How would you go about learning a regional accent of English for instance? Exposure is paramount. Token Cavan or Cork accents wouldn't do, so little can be written down. Immersion is your best tool. And recordings.
2)But be pragmatical: the pb w Irish trad is that it is played so fast usually and the tunes come with many variations and versions. Stick to one version ONLY til you have it. Try and get your hands on a 'tune slowing' software. Rewrite a score to fit the version you know. Swop Teacher/Pupil roles with a friend. Do all you need to GET the TUNES first; one tune and MANY tunes: play them often or regularly, in any sort of way but each THROUGH, there will always be time for refinement later: they get repeated a lot obviously. But you need the Fundation to build on. The Fundation is the tunes themselves!
3)Be aware that there are different types of 'memory'. Without getting into the finer neuropsychological concepts it can be summed up as: motor memory, pitch memory (than could mean playing tunes in several keys or on two different tin whistles for instance to match what you hear with what you will normally play), linguistic memory (ABC..., even the name of a tune), visual memory (score reading, finger staring!) and most importantly perhaps emotional memory. Try to get a nice blend of those and remember that your subconsious memory (mostly the motor, non neocortex part) is the fastest and surest. (Though sometimes very slow to 'take') Don't over load yourslef with too much visual or linguistic data. (eg: if you read a score, try to 'listen to the sound you make or ''listen' to your fingers' at the same time. And always alternate reading short bits with looking away. Also: look after yourself (sleep, food, joy!) It will help no end with the learning and the memorising!
4)Reading and following along can fool you in believing that you 'have' the tune. Be patient, practice slowly. You know you really have the tune when you can 'lead' a set or a session, playing half drunk and talking to your neighbour all at once: without rising eyebrows ;- ). These are the signs!
# Posted on May 19th 2010 by birlibirdie
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
And, whatever method(s) you chose to follow, don't forget these three famous words of advice:
Repetition, repetition, repetition.
(It's both the drudgery and the magic of it because when it finally comes to you all the doubt, problems and shortcomings that seemed so real and permanent all at once are lifted! ...Til more trouble must be met by more repetition again of course!)
# Posted on May 19th 2010 by birlibirdie
Re: Is it better to learn by ear or by both reading sheet music and listening by ear?
"should I listen to the tune and learn it from the sheet music together?" That's exactly it: triangulate, reinforce. Concentrate on the tunes you love.
# Posted on May 19th 2010 by birlibirdie