In my judgement, which wouldn't really be the best source for this, as I'm still learning the ropes, she seems to be from a jazz background and tends to "deconstruct" tunes, at times making them unrecognizable. Just my 2 cents.
Still they all seem to be really into it, which is nice to see in a country so far removed from anywhere remotely "Celtic" (sorry, I had to use it!) and apparently she's the best they've got (described as a "leader" in the fiddling world there)
There's too much space between phrases, and the emphases are more suited to a waltz than a jig. I'm guessing she's one of Tamura Takuji's pupils. The one obvious weakness in his playing is a slight tendency to divide each phrase a little too emphatically, and she is amplifying this tendency a great deal. I guess it results from an attempt to avoid running the phrases together without articulation, which is a much more common problem. If she followed Takuji's lead and moved to Ireland for a year or so, she'd probably be a great player.
Oh, and I really want some of whatever that bodhrán player's on...
Ach who cares what her style is, leave her alone. There is no such thing as 'best they've got' in trad. I've heard other clips of Japanese great fiddlers who play in a nice traditional style. I've also heard plenty good players over here with a really crap style.
Discussing youtube clips is rubbish. Unless everyone on session.org recorded their own and got it posted here for critique. Woof, wouldn't that be something! Enlightening all round I'm sure.
I agree, bogman. Raking youtube vids through the coals seems to turn some folks on. I'd like to see some of these folks post their own youtube links. My guess is some would be awesome and others not so.
Anyway, my reason for putting these vids up is that she's teaching classes, and was wondering if it was a good idea to take lessons in Irish fiddling from her when I get to Japan.
No, I don't think that's right. Eastern culture is very different. English culture is closely related to Irish culture (however unpopular in some quarters it might be to point that out) and american culture has a large part of it that's based on Irish culture originally. Even Italians are still European, and therefore, from a musical point of view, come from within the same basic European musical culture.
So it *is* stranger for Japanese people - or other people from different cultures - to be interested in ITM than for people who have grown up with more closely related musical cultures.
It does seem odd to me personally for someone without any connections to the music or the heritage to seek it out and pursue it. Why this music? Why not some other ethnicity's music to which you have no connection?
I think that speaks to the power of the music itself. While I have ancestral connections to it, and I couldn't fathom going off and passionately applying myself in the same way to some other ethnic traditional music, I don't begrudge anyone who does. I like to think about what that says about the music itself, how powerful and universal it is.
Becoming proficient in the music is a different story. That's available to anyone with the desire and the motivation to listen and learn, regardless of ethnic background.
Cross posted with little_chup. Two separate items in play here, the attraction and the ability. The confusion comes from mixing them. It seems to me ethical_blend is discussion the attraction.
So you're no longer discussing proficiency and you're discussing desire to play, yes?
These are opinions. No sense in arguing over them. Some of us find it odd that people with no ethnic connection to the music would want to play it. You don't. That's fine.
My opinon on the first clip is that it is music al right, bit far from irish trad. Irish trad is dance music and I can hardly imagine other than a moder ballet group dancing to that ryhthm.
Here's hoping that this thread, like others in the past, devolves into ignorant bigotry. But before we get to that level of fun I'd say that unless you had family members playing this stuff in your house growing up it would be just as alien to you as it would to anyone in Japan. And if you grew up in Japan as the child of a Japanese player of Irish music it would certainly be less 'alien' to you than to the child of a family in Galway listening to Rap country music.
It doesn't matter who you are. If you're going to debate with me you need to make sense and reply specifically to things I have posted in order for me to counter. By your sweeping generalisation without mention of the specific things I've said:
...aside from the ethnic connections, then I have nothing to respond to. Neither have you made any points for me to respond to. All I can do is reiterate things I've already posted, which you should have read already.
So, I'll reiterate.
Some people find it odd that those without cultural or ethnic connections to the music would be interested in playing it. There is no implied negativity in that from my part, or anyone who also shares my opinion. It's simply an opinion. For example, I have no desire to learn Japanese traditional music. Or Mongolian traditional music. It is what it is. Knock yourself out.
What is fascinating about that is how powerful and great the music is, if it inspires people to learn and play it who are not culturally or ethnically connected to it.
Now if you have a clear point to make, please do so. I'd be happy to discuss it further with you, providing you're able to read and understand what I'm posting and have already posted. This is the second time I've posted all this. It should be quite clear what I'm saying. Anything negative you are reading in what I'm saying is your own addition.
What I love about Irish trad is how it has proliferated globally and is a fantastic cultural ambassador for Ireland. With no personal connections, I don't think I would have been as interested or traveled there nearly a dozen times now were it not for the music.
I'm broadly with SWFL (I think! ). Anybody can play it. Brillliant.
However, it is blindingly obvious that "the average English person" is as completely immured in what is a shared musical heritage (European, subset North West European) as "the average Irish person", whoever those two may be. I think it's also blindingly obvious that the average Japanese person is not likely to be so immured in that same musical heritage/culture/whatever. Doesn't mean they can't play it. Far from it. The more the merrier. It does make it interesting that they should want to, however.
Calling people bigots for stating the obvious is out of line, in my view, and strikes me as coming from the same blinkered, PC thinking that used to suggest that men and women were the same (thankfully, that one at least has died a death).
If they offered me free whiskey like the Irish publicans do, I would be willing to give Japanese music a try! Around here, though, the Japanese restaurants don't offer music, just guys who juggle utensils and cook on the tables.
I think the issue here is the obvious ethnic appearance. People from many different backgrounds play Irish music, but our ethnicity is not, for the most part, obvious.
If you heard these recordings without seeing their faces, I think the reaction would be quite different.
Sara, it's possible you are right for some posters here. But to lump all the posers together and assign all their reactions to prejudice is indeed, a prejudice in itself.
Michael. Sorry, my words got in the way. I wasn't intending to lump all the posters, or even the posers, together. Perhaps I should have said, "I think *an* issue here *could be* the obvious ethnicity of the person playing the fiddle. I wonder if *some* reactions would be different if we were to only listen without seeing the players?" I will speak for myself - when I see a Japanese fiddler playing Irish music, it strikes me immediately as an anomaly. I, myself, am multi-ethnic, only a tad Irish, but it probably would not strike anyone as odd to see and hear me playing Irish music. Well...depends on the tune...
I'm simply posing, and posting, a sociological question.
What if the OP simply gave us an audio clip and said, "What is your opinion?."
And the prejudice can go the other way, of course. If you know the player is actually Irish, the temptation is to disregard your critical faculties and award the benefit of the doubt. Just as wrong.
It would be *really* daft if people were posing some kind of "genetic link to music". (Actually, if one were to take you literally, it wouldn't, as this has been proved time and time again, but I'm choosing to interpret you as meaning that someone of a certain race can't play Irish music ... or blues, or rap, or whatever, which I agree is daft.) I didn't see anyone doing that in this thread. Perhaps I missed it ...
I don't think there's a special cultural link to the music unless your family/friends were into it as you grew up. I know folks from Dublin who've no clue and aren't interested in Irish music. It's like saying there's a cultural link to jazz by virtue of being American or, even, of American ancestry. In the 'global village' it surprises me that people would wonder why someone choses to do what they do based on ethnicity. That's all.
I was just wondering is this the book cafe mentioned in Toshi's blog? & is that Hank Williams behind the fiddler? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=takti7WTJ1g
アイリッシュセッション
Airisshudansusesshon special music events in a book cafe Haimattokafe {ハイマットカフェで (?)} Musashi-Koyama station 1 minute walk Tokyo Meguro Line, which opened in February.
Glad to see there are correct opinions and then there are silly opinions, as in, the opinions you don't agree with. Unbelievable. That's some real enlightenment for ya. Funny how the more nuanced and reasoned view is called silly by the fanatic. Actually, not that funny at all, and rather sad in fact.
Yes, it surprises me that people "would wonder why someone choses to do what they do based on ethnicity", too, shanty. I don't think anyone has said that on this thread. But everyone who has grown up and lived all their lives in Ireland, and, to a very slightly lesser extent, England, Wales, Scotland, anywhere else in Europe and probably the States, has been surrounded since birth by essentially the same musical forms, structures, melodies, harmonies etc etc as everyone else who has grown up in those geographical areas. That's why I know nothing about, for instance, Gamelan. And, unlike some of the English toffs who see it as their God-given right to be able to play Gamelan, I know I'm never going to be able to do it. I haven't grown up with it, so the structures are not in-built.
All that sounds obvious to me, and has nothing whatever to do with ethnic origin. If someone *can* do it, not having been brought up in the middle of the music, then more power to them, I say.
Yeah, SWFL, what is all this 'reasonable' stuff you are peddling? Next you will probably try to say something 'thoughtful!' And then folks will all be nodding along, and you will have ruined a perfectly good argument!
Opinions...?
Opinions...?
Yet another Japanese fiddler...any thoughts/judgements?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qf_sF5VBRw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J696Ntanj3Y&feature=related
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by dragon76tatsu
Re: Opinions...?
All right if you like that sort of thing.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by gam
Re: Opinions...?
She's twice as good as somebody half as good as her.
I bet she was born on her birthday.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by timmy!
Re: Opinions...?
Good at what she does but not my kettle of bananas.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by Rudall the time
Re: Opinions...?
In my judgement, which wouldn't really be the best source for this, as I'm still learning the ropes, she seems to be from a jazz background and tends to "deconstruct" tunes, at times making them unrecognizable. Just my 2 cents.
Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YFRVxgE4i4&feature=related
Still they all seem to be really into it, which is nice to see in a country so far removed from anywhere remotely "Celtic" (sorry, I had to use it!) and apparently she's the best they've got (described as a "leader" in the fiddling world there)
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by dragon76tatsu
Re: Opinions...?
I think she needs to play with more box players.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Opinions...?
There's too much space between phrases, and the emphases are more suited to a waltz than a jig. I'm guessing she's one of Tamura Takuji's pupils. The one obvious weakness in his playing is a slight tendency to divide each phrase a little too emphatically, and she is amplifying this tendency a great deal. I guess it results from an attempt to avoid running the phrases together without articulation, which is a much more common problem. If she followed Takuji's lead and moved to Ireland for a year or so, she'd probably be a great player.
Oh, and I really want some of whatever that bodhrán player's on...
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Opinions...?
...I like to think, if I were that good at the fiddle, I'd do something a bit different with it.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Opinions...?
Dragut Reis - That's interesting. I had a feeling she was closely emulating another player - I just didn't know who.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Opinions...?
...apparently Eileen Ivers is her role model.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by dragon76tatsu
Re: Opinions...?
Ok, forget my earlier post, she has absolutely no background in jazz.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by dragon76tatsu
Re: Opinions...?
Ach who cares what her style is, leave her alone. There is no such thing as 'best they've got' in trad. I've heard other clips of Japanese great fiddlers who play in a nice traditional style. I've also heard plenty good players over here with a really crap style.
Discussing youtube clips is rubbish. Unless everyone on session.org recorded their own and got it posted here for critique. Woof, wouldn't that be something! Enlightening all round I'm sure.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by bogman
Re: Opinions...?
I know there's no "best"in trad, I'm just repeating what's written on her website!
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by dragon76tatsu
Re: Opinions...?
That's musicians websites for you. Read anyones and there will likely be reviews or excerpts claiming 'best'
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by bogman
Re: Opinions...?
The kind of claim that leaves one open to criticism, no?
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Opinions...?
So it was herself that claimed 'best' then was it?
Would you like to link her site?
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by bogman
Re: Opinions...?
I agree, bogman. Raking youtube vids through the coals seems to turn some folks on. I'd like to see some of these folks post their own youtube links. My guess is some would be awesome and others not so.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by Fiddlechick7
Re: Opinions...?
Opinions? She seems like a lovely lass. If I wasn't currently involved I'd ask her out for a bite to eat, perhaps a trip to the cinema.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
I don't believe it was herself who put the claim on the site, it was others who gave her the title.
The band is using the bodhran player's blog to advertise gigs.
http://toshibodhran.blog15.fc2.com/
An advertisement for one of her gigs (It's in Japanese, if you can read it)
her profile on the page:
大渕愛子（フィドル）
"Modern Irish Project"、"ナギィ""ハモニカクリームズ"など
各アイリッシュバンドのフロントを務める。リズム感、スピ
ード、テクニックには定評があり、若くしてトップフィドラー
としての存在感を放つ。クールな表情と他を圧倒するフィドル
スタイルにやられる男女は数知れず。蟹座のＯ型。
Anyway, my reason for putting these vids up is that she's teaching classes, and was wondering if it was a good idea to take lessons in Irish fiddling from her when I get to Japan.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by dragon76tatsu
Re: Opinions...?
"She's twice as good as somebody half as good as her."
That was funny.
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Opinions...?
I thought the bodhran playing made it. Sounded very eastern like the band in the pit of a Japanese opera.......about a girl from Kerry
# Posted on May 6th 2010 by Eòsaph
Re: Opinions...?
Incidentally, what do people think of these videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1zq2aSm-hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmAigzq_r-I&feature=related
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by Joe CSS
Re: Opinions...?
No, I don't think that's right. Eastern culture is very different. English culture is closely related to Irish culture (however unpopular in some quarters it might be to point that out) and american culture has a large part of it that's based on Irish culture originally. Even Italians are still European, and therefore, from a musical point of view, come from within the same basic European musical culture.
So it *is* stranger for Japanese people - or other people from different cultures - to be interested in ITM than for people who have grown up with more closely related musical cultures.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Opinions...?
It does seem odd to me personally for someone without any connections to the music or the heritage to seek it out and pursue it. Why this music? Why not some other ethnicity's music to which you have no connection?
I think that speaks to the power of the music itself. While I have ancestral connections to it, and I couldn't fathom going off and passionately applying myself in the same way to some other ethnic traditional music, I don't begrudge anyone who does. I like to think about what that says about the music itself, how powerful and universal it is.
Becoming proficient in the music is a different story. That's available to anyone with the desire and the motivation to listen and learn, regardless of ethnic background.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
Cross posted with little_chup. Two separate items in play here, the attraction and the ability. The confusion comes from mixing them. It seems to me ethical_blend is discussion the attraction.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
'discussing the attraction', but if you can discussion the attraction as well, fair play!
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
So you're no longer discussing proficiency and you're discussing desire to play, yes?
These are opinions. No sense in arguing over them. Some of us find it odd that people with no ethnic connection to the music would want to play it. You don't. That's fine.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
..and by odd, there's nothing wrong with it, no 'wrong' implied or intended.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
My opinon on the first clip is that it is music al right, bit far from irish trad. Irish trad is dance music and I can hardly imagine other than a moder ballet group dancing to that ryhthm.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by FiddleTramp
Re: Opinions...?
Here's hoping that this thread, like others in the past, devolves into ignorant bigotry. But before we get to that level of fun I'd say that unless you had family members playing this stuff in your house growing up it would be just as alien to you as it would to anyone in Japan. And if you grew up in Japan as the child of a Japanese player of Irish music it would certainly be less 'alien' to you than to the child of a family in Galway listening to Rap country music.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by shanty
Re: Opinions...?
Rap 'or' country music.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by shanty
Re: Opinions...?
I'm with you 100 percent. Humans are my favorite people
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by shanty
Re: Opinions...?
It doesn't matter who you are. If you're going to debate with me you need to make sense and reply specifically to things I have posted in order for me to counter. By your sweeping generalisation without mention of the specific things I've said:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/24546#comment512443
...aside from the ethnic connections, then I have nothing to respond to. Neither have you made any points for me to respond to. All I can do is reiterate things I've already posted, which you should have read already.
So, I'll reiterate.
Some people find it odd that those without cultural or ethnic connections to the music would be interested in playing it. There is no implied negativity in that from my part, or anyone who also shares my opinion. It's simply an opinion. For example, I have no desire to learn Japanese traditional music. Or Mongolian traditional music. It is what it is. Knock yourself out.
What is fascinating about that is how powerful and great the music is, if it inspires people to learn and play it who are not culturally or ethnically connected to it.
Now if you have a clear point to make, please do so. I'd be happy to discuss it further with you, providing you're able to read and understand what I'm posting and have already posted. This is the second time I've posted all this. It should be quite clear what I'm saying. Anything negative you are reading in what I'm saying is your own addition.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
What I love about Irish trad is how it has proliferated globally and is a fantastic cultural ambassador for Ireland. With no personal connections, I don't think I would have been as interested or traveled there nearly a dozen times now were it not for the music.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by Phantom Button
Re: Opinions...?
I'm broadly with SWFL (I think!
). Anybody can play it. Brillliant.
However, it is blindingly obvious that "the average English person" is as completely immured in what is a shared musical heritage (European, subset North West European) as "the average Irish person", whoever those two may be. I think it's also blindingly obvious that the average Japanese person is not likely to be so immured in that same musical heritage/culture/whatever. Doesn't mean they can't play it. Far from it. The more the merrier. It does make it interesting that they should want to, however.
Calling people bigots for stating the obvious is out of line, in my view, and strikes me as coming from the same blinkered, PC thinking that used to suggest that men and women were the same (thankfully, that one at least has died a death).
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Opinions...?
BTW, my posts have nothing to do with the originally posted link, which was fine in its way, although not particularly my cup of tea.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Opinions...?
Wait, you mean they're not the same? I took the wrong anatomy class, didn't I?
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
If they offered me free whiskey like the Irish publicans do, I would be willing to give Japanese music a try! Around here, though, the Japanese restaurants don't offer music, just guys who juggle utensils and cook on the tables.
# Posted on May 7th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Opinions...?
actually ethics, it hasn't died. It's still raises it's ugly head over here every once in a while, along with a lot of other foolish notions.
# Posted on May 8th 2010 by Pádraig
Re: Opinions...?
I think it sounds interesting.
# Posted on May 8th 2010 by Pere
Re: Opinions...?
If I may.
I think the issue here is the obvious ethnic appearance. People from many different backgrounds play Irish music, but our ethnicity is not, for the most part, obvious.
If you heard these recordings without seeing their faces, I think the reaction would be quite different.
# Posted on May 8th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Opinions...?
Sara, it's possible you are right for some posters here. But to lump all the posers together and assign all their reactions to prejudice is indeed, a prejudice in itself.
# Posted on May 8th 2010 by ...
Re: Opinions...?
ha, "posers". I meant "posters", of course. But what a great slip.
# Posted on May 8th 2010 by ...
Re: Opinions...?
Michael. Sorry, my words got in the way. I wasn't intending to lump all the posters, or even the posers, together. Perhaps I should have said, "I think *an* issue here *could be* the obvious ethnicity of the person playing the fiddle. I wonder if *some* reactions would be different if we were to only listen without seeing the players?" I will speak for myself - when I see a Japanese fiddler playing Irish music, it strikes me immediately as an anomaly. I, myself, am multi-ethnic, only a tad Irish, but it probably would not strike anyone as odd to see and hear me playing Irish music. Well...depends on the tune...
I'm simply posing, and posting, a sociological question.
What if the OP simply gave us an audio clip and said, "What is your opinion?."
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Opinions...?
And the prejudice can go the other way, of course. If you know the player is actually Irish, the temptation is to disregard your critical faculties and award the benefit of the doubt. Just as wrong.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by ...
Re: Opinions...?
Point well taken. Human nature, I guess.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Opinions...?
Is it strange to see person from Japan playing Italian classical music? rock? jazz? ska? Rap?
Is it odd to see an English person playing blues?
Is it strange to see a Canadian playing Russian music?
Why comment on the ethnicity of the player? It's good music and she fcking likes it!!!
I dig Reggae but there's no need for an ancestral connection-it's just good music and I like it.
I don't think anyone meant any harm I just find it so odd that people talk about some kind of strange genetic link to music .
It's SILLY stop it!
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by shanty
Re: Opinions...?
It would be *really* daft if people were posing some kind of "genetic link to music". (Actually, if one were to take you literally, it wouldn't, as this has been proved time and time again, but I'm choosing to interpret you as meaning that someone of a certain race can't play Irish music ... or blues, or rap, or whatever, which I agree is daft.) I didn't see anyone doing that in this thread. Perhaps I missed it ...
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Opinions...?
I don't think there's a special cultural link to the music unless your family/friends were into it as you grew up. I know folks from Dublin who've no clue and aren't interested in Irish music. It's like saying there's a cultural link to jazz by virtue of being American or, even, of American ancestry. In the 'global village' it surprises me that people would wonder why someone choses to do what they do based on ethnicity. That's all.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by shanty
Re: Opinions...?
All I know is, someone posted a link to a youtube video with the message, "Another Japanese fiddler...any thoughts/judgments?"
And that's what's been happening - people offering thoughts and judgements. A healthy sharing of ideas as far as I can see.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Opinions...?
I was just wondering is this the book cafe mentioned in Toshi's blog? & is that Hank Williams behind the fiddler?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=takti7WTJ1g
アイリッシュセッション
Airisshudansusesshon special music events in a book cafe Haimattokafe {ハイマットカフェで (?)} Musashi-Koyama station 1 minute walk Tokyo Meguro Line, which opened in February.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by Ben Steen
. . .
probably not. Basically I cannot suss out what Airisshudansusesshon means. I am interested in finding out where the clip was recorded though.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Opinions...?
Glad to see there are correct opinions and then there are silly opinions, as in, the opinions you don't agree with. Unbelievable. That's some real enlightenment for ya. Funny how the more nuanced and reasoned view is called silly by the fanatic. Actually, not that funny at all, and rather sad in fact.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Opinions...?
Yes, it surprises me that people "would wonder why someone choses to do what they do based on ethnicity", too, shanty. I don't think anyone has said that on this thread. But everyone who has grown up and lived all their lives in Ireland, and, to a very slightly lesser extent, England, Wales, Scotland, anywhere else in Europe and probably the States, has been surrounded since birth by essentially the same musical forms, structures, melodies, harmonies etc etc as everyone else who has grown up in those geographical areas. That's why I know nothing about, for instance, Gamelan. And, unlike some of the English toffs who see it as their God-given right to be able to play Gamelan, I know I'm never going to be able to do it. I haven't grown up with it, so the structures are not in-built.
All that sounds obvious to me, and has nothing whatever to do with ethnic origin. If someone *can* do it, not having been brought up in the middle of the music, then more power to them, I say.
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Opinions...?
Ooh, you posted while I was posting, SWFL. Who were you having a go at, there? Is there going to be a fight?
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: Opinions...?
Yeah, SWFL, what is all this 'reasonable' stuff you are peddling? Next you will probably try to say something 'thoughtful!' And then folks will all be nodding along, and you will have ruined a perfectly good argument!
# Posted on May 9th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Opinions...?
And we just can't have that, can we. Oh noes.
Oh lord, shoot me. I just typed an internet meme...
# Posted on May 15th 2010 by Pádraig