Now that winter has finally arrive in Kansas City, the old computer room/music room where I store my flute is regularly about 50 degrees during the day. I knew flutes didn't play as well when cold, but my Seery is a downright different beastie when that well chilled. It feels like I'm having to force it to get going until it warms up, and then it's as responsive as ever.
I was wondering do wood flutes have this same sluggishness when cold?
I had planned to play Christmas carols this winter in a local park, but now I'm wondering if the 20 - 30 degree farenheit weather might prohibit that. I mean I could always play, but with the flute so cold I think the carols would sound somber and depressing.
Woudn't cold wheather be really bad for the flute, as well as making it sound depressing? I once took a guitar Christmas carroling, but it went way out of tune, and I can't imagine that it was good for the wooden body of the guitar.
I remember once playing a folk Christmas Eve mass. I got there the requested forty five minutes early to go over the service. (Keep in mind that my car of the time had no heat and it was freezing cold.) It was just like being in Ireland, the guy with the key wasn't there yet. So me and the music person stood around outside the church door freezing our butts off (she'd walked). Still no guy with the key. My guitar is sitting on the pavement in it's case. The congregation shows up. Still no key. People are running around trying to find somebody to let everyone in for Christmas Eve mass. Finally, half an hour after the service was supposed to have started, the guy shows up (can't remember why he was so late).
Normally, of course, after a chill like that, I let my guitar warm up for a good half hour before trying to play it. No time this time -- I get the guitar out and start praying. Ooops, too late. Bing, goes the e string. Hell. Okay, I'll double it on the low E. First chord. Bing goes the G.
I ended up playing the grand piano. Since I don't really actually play the piano, THAT was fun.
Hmm, Cold weather (or hot weather) shouldn't effect the tone of a delrin flute. The only thing that may cause a tonal difference is that a cold flute will build up a lot of condensate quickly while it's warming up, those little beads of mystery moisture could cause turbulence in the bore, but even that would be minimal. Delrin, ABS etc is very stable stuff - I don't know for a fact but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't "move" a lot due to temp. changes.
The answer is so terribly simple that you will probably kick yourself.
Warm it up first.
I have a blackwood flute (no keys) and have always made a practice of breathing through it for at least a couple of minutes before playing if it has got cold, and often even if it has not been cold. As a result of this practice it is never starting up from cold.
Fingers over all holes, flute in approximately playing position, but with your mouth covering the hole completely, breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.
In the case of a very cold instrument you might want to make sure the person on your right is either a very close friend, or someone you always wanted to spit on.
As for carols in the park, this is not a problem. I have done this, and speak from experience. While you are actually playing you are keeping the instrument warm. In between carols you stuff the flute inside your clothing (down the leg of your trousers, or pants if you are in the colonies). When you get it out it is warm ready for the next song.
thanks for the replies. It's nice to know wood flutes go through the same thing. It may not actually be the delrin of the flute that's most affected by the cold - it could be the tuning slide. I do know metal expands and contracts in the cold here because all of our bridges are designed to with small sliding sections to deal with the expansion and contraction.
Regardless, it's very heartening to hear that playing even in cold weather is enough to keep a flute warm. I guess I'll just have to start warming up my flute before playing this winter. I'd hoped I wouldn't have to do that with Delrin, but oh well, I really like the Seery anyway.
Does it attract the ladies or frighten them away to have an entire flute down your trousers? Just curious...
I dont think the problem of playing a cold flute is anything much to do with either airflow/turbulence, or with expansion/contraction of the instrument. The effect is the same with plastic, metal and wooden flutes (and recorders and whistles).
The first thing is that a cold flute plays flat, and sharpens up as it warms up. This is simple physics - a cold column of air has a greater mass than a warm column of air of the same size.
As for the tonal differences, I think it is to do with something much more subtle in the physics of getting a column of air to vibrate. Someone more educated than I could probably write lots of clever stuff here. I think that the fact that the instrument causes the air to suddenly change its temperature and its humidity causes that air to behave somewhat differently from what the player has 'come to expect' from the instrument.
We had a discussion recently (I'm far too lazy to find a reference) where we talked a little about pipes being affected by changes in humidity, but the effect is far far smaller in bellows driven pipes than in a mouth blown flute, which leads me to think it is the temperature change when the breath touches the cold instrument which causes the effect.
Try setting up a bellows or pump blown whistle just for fun. I did. I'ts interesting what a different sound you get from blowing it with air drawn from the surrounding atmosphere, as compared with the warm, humid (and slightly CO2 enriched and oxygen depleted) air that comes from blowing with the mouth.
I’m no physicist or flute maker but here’s my uneducated opinion: I think you must also keep in mind that YOU are probably also cold. My contention is that most of what people like to blame on flutes is actually a, well, personal problem. I agree that the flute being cold can initially cause some deviation from the norm, but I think that most of the problem has to do with the cold causing us to stiffen up.
There's less humidity in the air so our lips are parched and our joints are stiff. The warming up time has as much to do with our rickety bones and aching muscles loosening up as it has to do with physical changes in the flute.
Good flute playing is tied to our poise and economy of movement as much as with any instrument, possibly more so. Flutes are deceptively simple; it’s d4mn hard to keep the things in tune with our bodies but we tend to blame the instruments where we are actually lacking.
It shouldn’t take that long for the instrument to warm up with our breath. If it’s taking forever to get it sounding like you want on cold days, then maybe you need to sit a little closer to the fire. And drink a strong liquor of your choice.
I am something of a physicist and something of a flute maker.
It is true that a cold flautist will not operate as well as a warm one, but consider the following:
If I sit in a warm room, and am thoroughly warm myself, and then send someone out to bring in my flute from a cold car, the effects we discussed are still there.
True - it doesn't take very long for an instrument to warm up - but my blackwood flute will take about 20/30 minutes to reach the ambient temperature if just placed from a cold place into a warm room. If played from cold it still takes a good 5 minutes. This 5 minutes seems like forever when you are playing. Remember - when playing, most of your breath goes across the top of the flute and out into the room (park, pub or whatever), very little of it goes through the bore of the instrument.
If warmed in the hands (or down the leg of your pants), or even better by the breathing I described above - through the bore of the instrument, it takes only a couple of minutes. From then on, playing will maintain it at a suitable temperature in most circumstances.
For many years there was frequently no heating in the room where we had our regular session, even in winter. Many times we had sessions where you could see your breath in the room. We used to keep our gloves on, then whip them off to play a tune or two, then put them back on.
That is why, as I said earlier, I always warm up the instrument first.
Dave - I'm with you here about the times it takes to warm up my flute. It's not that I'm cold, but the flute itself is. And while it may only be 5 minutes playing to warm it up, it seems like forever!
Not having played flute outside for any lenght of time, I'm glad to hear from others that their experiece is that continued playing will keep the flute warm enough to keep it chugging along. My fear was committing to playing outside, but finding out no matter how long I played it wouldn't stay warmed up. I hate to let other folks down.
Yeah Dave - your solution is so common sense that even I arrived at that independently, years ago - when playing any one of: simple wooden system, boehm system wooden or boehm system metal, always blow down it, whole mouth covering the blowhole, with all keys covered, and that includes the C on the boehm, with your pinkie! For a good few minutes. Otherwise, you then tune up/down to the other people, and you'll find yourself flat (usually) by about a quarter of a tone, so then you have to retune after a couple of sets.
I'm certainly not convinced about this mass of a cold column of air argument.
If I play the flute cold and it's in tune it will quickly go sharp and I have to adjust the tuning slide for the first lot of tunes until it settles down. Because of the age of my Monzani [and hence the A not being the modern 440] I sometimes have to play it in even with the tuning slide fully closed.
I am fairly sure that this has to do with the expansion and contraction of the flute over it's entire length. Humidity and temperature both having an effect.
If possible I will let the flute sit for a while in the ambient air - have a pint and a yarn before kicking off with my first tune. Any oul excuse for a jar!!!
Serious question here: can't rapid and/or extreme changes in temperature cause cracks? It would be ideal to have a flute gradually warm up, but if you repeatedly used the showaddy method, ie rapid warming up (& I assume cooling down), could that compromise the flute's integrity over time?
You can have this kipper, Dave, just save me the olives from your salad at lunch.
Extreme changes do cause cracks, and I have too much experience on this... There was a time my wooden flutes cracked almost every year, no matter what I did (or didn't do) with them.
Here in Finland it may be -30*C or even colder (is that something like -22*F?) outdoors and +20*C (68*F) indoors (or even more, as it tends to be hot in crowded pubs). The dry and cold winters are the worst climate you can have when it comes to flutes, and cracks are a huge problem here.
There's no way I'd come in from -30*C weather and immediately start warming up or playing the flute. Most flute players I know avoid this as well. I prefer to wait for at least fifteen to thirty minutes before even opening the flute case. After opening it, I give the flute another fifteen minutes without playing or warming up, if possible. Cooling the flute down after playing is just as important.
Breandan - you're right, I think so anyway, about it being the expansion/contraction of the flute along its length, due to heat /cold, producing sharpness/flatness, rather than just the air column (air, although a poorer conductor of heat than a solid object, eg flute, will be quickly replaced by warm stuff, by a couple of puffs) -- but in addition, don't you thing the actual *bore* of the flute will be altered also, adding to this effect?
I have been using the method I describe for about 12 years with no apparent ill effect to the flute. I treat it frequently (about once every one to two months) with a liberal dose of Almond oil inside the bore.
By the way - why do you assume that I cool the flute down rapidly? After a session, the flute goes back into its case. Over the years I have also found that it retains its best tone if I shake the drips out, but do not wipe it out with a rag - it goes in the case with some moisture inside.
Breandan:
If the change was due to the flute changing in size, it would be changing in size by something like 10 millimetres (around half an inch for the US) to make the difference in tuning that we experience, and this is clearly not the case. The cold column of air is far and away the biggest contributor. Are you saying your flute becomes sharper as you start to play? If so - that is what we are all saying. If you are saying it flattens as it warms up then you have a unique animal there, and we need to cross breed it with mine to produce a permanently tuned flute.
Dave - mine starts off flat, then sharpens, so then I have to retune it unless warmed up properly beforehand - sorry, I didn't make that clear on my first post. I'm sure Breandan is not trying to "say" anything, merely reporting his experiences. That's why I suggested it could be the bore width which is altered - could be that as the flute warms up the whole flute expands and this produces a NARROWING of the bore....who knows - maybe someone should get hold of a micrometre gauge thing and measure it before and after.
Danny - I'm using the word "say" to mean "reporting ones experiences". Not intending to imply any sinister meaning at all, I'm never sharp enough for that sort of thing.
Isn't the written word a fascinating way to communicate. Without the addition of vocal intonation, people so easily misinterpret one's meaning.
If you heat a tube it expands in all dimensions, causing the internal bore to increase rather than decrease. If you want to get a bearing onto a shaft and it is a tight fit you heat the bearing (a tube) and cool the shaft, then the tube goes onto the shaft easily.
I don't doubt what you say about tubes, and internal bore increasing - but you also said it expands in all dimensions?
Ok - anyway - mine sharpens despite that.....emm..emm...ow...err..
....Perhaps the air, even warm air introduced by the player blowing into it, is almost instantaneously cooled by the cold wood/metal of the flute, until it is warmed up...yay! how's that for a compromise?
My negative posts are finis for the foreseeable future, at least til Hogmanay! Back to only cheerful, upbeat, inclusive posts from here! Wind me up all you like, I'm game!
WRT quick cooling down (via room air temp in the case or going right into the back of the car on a cold night), was just using that as opposed to some other tactic of letting it slowly cool down in a controlled way. Out here, daytime temps recently have ranged from 70's Fahrenheit daytime to single digits at night. Not as severe as kaarne, but I do worry about cracks. Also my headjoint isn't lined with metal, wonder if that has a protective or detrimental effect?
Hurrah for Yohan. At last someones started to take the pee. I thought I was going to have to go to the library and/or the gym for this one.
Yes Danny - it expands in all dimensions - which means it projects further into time as well, and probably affects the curvature of the space/time continuum. Perhaps thats why it sounds crappy. Eddies in the space time continuum. (I wonder if Eddie plays flute).
Emily - I misread "assuage" as "sausage" (which is the proper word for what, I believe, you folks call wieners). Needless to say this puzzled me for some while before I read it correctly. I hoped it was something to go with the kipper. I have a metal lining in my head. It stops THEM from reading my thoughts.
Emily, there's a lot of evidence that an unlined headjoint is a good thing. A good woody tone is one. But perhaps more important is that if the wood shrinks, the metal tube inside, which will not shrink as much, will actually cause the wood to crack.
For the rest of you with Delrin or plastic flutes, try a pair of electric socks. You know, the ones they sell to hunters with cold feet. A battery pack holds 4 AA batteries (rechargeable AA's are available) and the socks are woven with some metal threads I believe. On the way to your frigid event, the socks keep the flute warm. You extract it, and voila', warm flute. For wooden flutes I would make sure you have some humidification also, like one of those cylindrical Dampits in the bore. You don't want the heat to dry the wood, just keep it warm.
I find myself wondering whether Danny and other players of metal flutes would stick to their instruments in extremely cold weather, like a kid licking a cold window pane. I mean, we're all rather attached to the instruments we play, but ...
Ha ha! - not any more. It's a wooden Boehm system job with a plastic (presumably Bakelite) lip-plate, that I play these days. Also I don't think it would get quite that cold here in London. Last Paddy's Day, myself, Conan and David from this site did a session on the back of a truck down here and it was bliddy cold - after a few sets all our fingers were numb -- ooyah! Great craic that was, though, apart from that!
Flutes and cold weather
Flutes and cold weather
Now that winter has finally arrive in Kansas City, the old computer room/music room where I store my flute is regularly about 50 degrees during the day. I knew flutes didn't play as well when cold, but my Seery is a downright different beastie when that well chilled. It feels like I'm having to force it to get going until it warms up, and then it's as responsive as ever.
I was wondering do wood flutes have this same sluggishness when cold?
I had planned to play Christmas carols this winter in a local park, but now I'm wondering if the 20 - 30 degree farenheit weather might prohibit that. I mean I could always play, but with the flute so cold I think the carols would sound somber and depressing.
Any advice?
Eric
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Jayhawk
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Woudn't cold wheather be really bad for the flute, as well as making it sound depressing? I once took a guitar Christmas carroling, but it went way out of tune, and I can't imagine that it was good for the wooden body of the guitar.
-Max
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Max Becher
Re: Flutes and cold weather
I remember once playing a folk Christmas Eve mass. I got there the requested forty five minutes early to go over the service. (Keep in mind that my car of the time had no heat and it was freezing cold.) It was just like being in Ireland, the guy with the key wasn't there yet. So me and the music person stood around outside the church door freezing our butts off (she'd walked). Still no guy with the key. My guitar is sitting on the pavement in it's case. The congregation shows up. Still no key. People are running around trying to find somebody to let everyone in for Christmas Eve mass. Finally, half an hour after the service was supposed to have started, the guy shows up (can't remember why he was so late).
Normally, of course, after a chill like that, I let my guitar warm up for a good half hour before trying to play it. No time this time -- I get the guitar out and start praying. Ooops, too late. Bing, goes the e string. Hell. Okay, I'll double it on the low E. First chord. Bing goes the G.
I ended up playing the grand piano. Since I don't really actually play the piano, THAT was fun.
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Max - my Seery is Delrin (it's like PVC), so damage won't be an issue. It just sounds, well, terrible, until it warms up.
Eric
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Jayhawk
Re: Flutes and cold weather
I see. Although woudn't it also be really hard to play with such cold fingers? I know I would have a hard time.
-Max
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Max Becher
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Hmm, Cold weather (or hot weather) shouldn't effect the tone of a delrin flute. The only thing that may cause a tonal difference is that a cold flute will build up a lot of condensate quickly while it's warming up, those little beads of mystery moisture could cause turbulence in the bore, but even that would be minimal. Delrin, ABS etc is very stable stuff - I don't know for a fact but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't "move" a lot due to temp. changes.
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Mad Baloney
Re: Flutes and cold weather
The answer is so terribly simple that you will probably kick yourself.
Warm it up first.
I have a blackwood flute (no keys) and have always made a practice of breathing through it for at least a couple of minutes before playing if it has got cold, and often even if it has not been cold. As a result of this practice it is never starting up from cold.
Fingers over all holes, flute in approximately playing position, but with your mouth covering the hole completely, breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth.
In the case of a very cold instrument you might want to make sure the person on your right is either a very close friend, or someone you always wanted to spit on.
As for carols in the park, this is not a problem. I have done this, and speak from experience. While you are actually playing you are keeping the instrument warm. In between carols you stuff the flute inside your clothing (down the leg of your trousers, or pants if you are in the colonies). When you get it out it is warm ready for the next song.
Dave
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Dave & TM,
thanks for the replies. It's nice to know wood flutes go through the same thing. It may not actually be the delrin of the flute that's most affected by the cold - it could be the tuning slide. I do know metal expands and contracts in the cold here because all of our bridges are designed to with small sliding sections to deal with the expansion and contraction.
Regardless, it's very heartening to hear that playing even in cold weather is enough to keep a flute warm. I guess I'll just have to start warming up my flute before playing this winter. I'd hoped I wouldn't have to do that with Delrin, but oh well, I really like the Seery anyway.
Does it attract the ladies or frighten them away to have an entire flute down your trousers?
Just curious...
Eric
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Jayhawk
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Dave!
So it was a flute after all...I bet people thought you were just pleased to see them.
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Touchy McPheelie
I dont think the problem of playing a cold flute is anything much to do with either airflow/turbulence, or with expansion/contraction of the instrument. The effect is the same with plastic, metal and wooden flutes (and recorders and whistles).
The first thing is that a cold flute plays flat, and sharpens up as it warms up. This is simple physics - a cold column of air has a greater mass than a warm column of air of the same size.
As for the tonal differences, I think it is to do with something much more subtle in the physics of getting a column of air to vibrate. Someone more educated than I could probably write lots of clever stuff here. I think that the fact that the instrument causes the air to suddenly change its temperature and its humidity causes that air to behave somewhat differently from what the player has 'come to expect' from the instrument.
We had a discussion recently (I'm far too lazy to find a reference) where we talked a little about pipes being affected by changes in humidity, but the effect is far far smaller in bellows driven pipes than in a mouth blown flute, which leads me to think it is the temperature change when the breath touches the cold instrument which causes the effect.
Try setting up a bellows or pump blown whistle just for fun. I did. I'ts interesting what a different sound you get from blowing it with air drawn from the surrounding atmosphere, as compared with the warm, humid (and slightly CO2 enriched and oxygen depleted) air that comes from blowing with the mouth.
By the way, can I have that kipper?
Dave
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
I’m no physicist or flute maker but here’s my uneducated opinion: I think you must also keep in mind that YOU are probably also cold. My contention is that most of what people like to blame on flutes is actually a, well, personal problem. I agree that the flute being cold can initially cause some deviation from the norm, but I think that most of the problem has to do with the cold causing us to stiffen up.
There's less humidity in the air so our lips are parched and our joints are stiff. The warming up time has as much to do with our rickety bones and aching muscles loosening up as it has to do with physical changes in the flute.
Good flute playing is tied to our poise and economy of movement as much as with any instrument, possibly more so. Flutes are deceptively simple; it’s d4mn hard to keep the things in tune with our bodies but we tend to blame the instruments where we are actually lacking.
It shouldn’t take that long for the instrument to warm up with our breath. If it’s taking forever to get it sounding like you want on cold days, then maybe you need to sit a little closer to the fire. And drink a strong liquor of your choice.
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by jerball
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Jerball
I am something of a physicist and something of a flute maker.
It is true that a cold flautist will not operate as well as a warm one, but consider the following:
If I sit in a warm room, and am thoroughly warm myself, and then send someone out to bring in my flute from a cold car, the effects we discussed are still there.
True - it doesn't take very long for an instrument to warm up - but my blackwood flute will take about 20/30 minutes to reach the ambient temperature if just placed from a cold place into a warm room. If played from cold it still takes a good 5 minutes. This 5 minutes seems like forever when you are playing. Remember - when playing, most of your breath goes across the top of the flute and out into the room (park, pub or whatever), very little of it goes through the bore of the instrument.
If warmed in the hands (or down the leg of your pants), or even better by the breathing I described above - through the bore of the instrument, it takes only a couple of minutes. From then on, playing will maintain it at a suitable temperature in most circumstances.
For many years there was frequently no heating in the room where we had our regular session, even in winter. Many times we had sessions where you could see your breath in the room. We used to keep our gloves on, then whip them off to play a tune or two, then put them back on.
That is why, as I said earlier, I always warm up the instrument first.
Keep blowing guys.
Dave
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Dave - I'm with you here about the times it takes to warm up my flute. It's not that I'm cold, but the flute itself is. And while it may only be 5 minutes playing to warm it up, it seems like forever!
Not having played flute outside for any lenght of time, I'm glad to hear from others that their experiece is that continued playing will keep the flute warm enough to keep it chugging along. My fear was committing to playing outside, but finding out no matter how long I played it wouldn't stay warmed up. I hate to let other folks down.
Eric
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by Jayhawk
Suggestion...
You could always burn a few banjos and hammered dulcimers to warm up the room for your flute.
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by Eliot
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Yeah Dave - your solution is so common sense that even I arrived at that independently, years ago - when playing any one of: simple wooden system, boehm system wooden or boehm system metal, always blow down it, whole mouth covering the blowhole, with all keys covered, and that includes the C on the boehm, with your pinkie! For a good few minutes. Otherwise, you then tune up/down to the other people, and you'll find yourself flat (usually) by about a quarter of a tone, so then you have to retune after a couple of sets.
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Flutes and cold weather
I'm certainly not convinced about this mass of a cold column of air argument.
If I play the flute cold and it's in tune it will quickly go sharp and I have to adjust the tuning slide for the first lot of tunes until it settles down. Because of the age of my Monzani [and hence the A not being the modern 440] I sometimes have to play it in even with the tuning slide fully closed.
I am fairly sure that this has to do with the expansion and contraction of the flute over it's entire length. Humidity and temperature both having an effect.
If possible I will let the flute sit for a while in the ambient air - have a pint and a yarn before kicking off with my first tune. Any oul excuse for a jar!!!
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by breandan
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Serious question here: can't rapid and/or extreme changes in temperature cause cracks? It would be ideal to have a flute gradually warm up, but if you repeatedly used the showaddy method, ie rapid warming up (& I assume cooling down), could that compromise the flute's integrity over time?
You can have this kipper, Dave, just save me the olives from your salad at lunch.
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Extreme changes do cause cracks, and I have too much experience on this... There was a time my wooden flutes cracked almost every year, no matter what I did (or didn't do) with them.
Here in Finland it may be -30*C or even colder (is that something like -22*F?) outdoors and +20*C (68*F) indoors (or even more, as it tends to be hot in crowded pubs). The dry and cold winters are the worst climate you can have when it comes to flutes, and cracks are a huge problem here.
There's no way I'd come in from -30*C weather and immediately start warming up or playing the flute. Most flute players I know avoid this as well. I prefer to wait for at least fifteen to thirty minutes before even opening the flute case. After opening it, I give the flute another fifteen minutes without playing or warming up, if possible. Cooling the flute down after playing is just as important.
Johanna
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by kaarne
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Breandan - you're right, I think so anyway, about it being the expansion/contraction of the flute along its length, due to heat /cold, producing sharpness/flatness, rather than just the air column (air, although a poorer conductor of heat than a solid object, eg flute, will be quickly replaced by warm stuff, by a couple of puffs) -- but in addition, don't you thing the actual *bore* of the flute will be altered also, adding to this effect?
Danny
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Emily
Thanks for the kipper.
I have been using the method I describe for about 12 years with no apparent ill effect to the flute. I treat it frequently (about once every one to two months) with a liberal dose of Almond oil inside the bore.
By the way - why do you assume that I cool the flute down rapidly? After a session, the flute goes back into its case. Over the years I have also found that it retains its best tone if I shake the drips out, but do not wipe it out with a rag - it goes in the case with some moisture inside.
Breandan:
If the change was due to the flute changing in size, it would be changing in size by something like 10 millimetres (around half an inch for the US) to make the difference in tuning that we experience, and this is clearly not the case. The cold column of air is far and away the biggest contributor. Are you saying your flute becomes sharper as you start to play? If so - that is what we are all saying. If you are saying it flattens as it warms up then you have a unique animal there, and we need to cross breed it with mine to produce a permanently tuned flute.
Do you fancy half a kipper?
Dave
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Dave - mine starts off flat, then sharpens, so then I have to retune it unless warmed up properly beforehand - sorry, I didn't make that clear on my first post. I'm sure Breandan is not trying to "say" anything, merely reporting his experiences. That's why I suggested it could be the bore width which is altered - could be that as the flute warms up the whole flute expands and this produces a NARROWING of the bore....who knows - maybe someone should get hold of a micrometre gauge thing and measure it before and after.
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Danny - I'm using the word "say" to mean "reporting ones experiences". Not intending to imply any sinister meaning at all, I'm never sharp enough for that sort of thing.
Isn't the written word a fascinating way to communicate. Without the addition of vocal intonation, people so easily misinterpret one's meaning.
If you heat a tube it expands in all dimensions, causing the internal bore to increase rather than decrease. If you want to get a bearing onto a shaft and it is a tight fit you heat the bearing (a tube) and cool the shaft, then the tube goes onto the shaft easily.
Keep blowing guys.
Dave
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by showaddydadito
I suppose in view of all things, I better make it clear that I use the word "guys" to include all genders and races.
Dave
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Wot you sayin' geezah?
:~}
# Posted on November 27th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
I don't doubt what you say about tubes, and internal bore increasing - but you also said it expands in all dimensions?
Ok - anyway - mine sharpens despite that.....emm..emm...ow...err..
....Perhaps the air, even warm air introduced by the player blowing into it, is almost instantaneously cooled by the cold wood/metal of the flute, until it is warmed up...yay! how's that for a compromise?
Everybody happy?
Danny.
# Posted on November 27th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Flutes and cold weather
LOL Dave, hope that wasn't meant to assuage me!
My negative posts are finis for the foreseeable future, at least til Hogmanay! Back to only cheerful, upbeat, inclusive posts from here! Wind me up all you like, I'm game!
WRT quick cooling down (via room air temp in the case or going right into the back of the car on a cold night), was just using that as opposed to some other tactic of letting it slowly cool down in a controlled way. Out here, daytime temps recently have ranged from 70's Fahrenheit daytime to single digits at night. Not as severe as kaarne, but I do worry about cracks. Also my headjoint isn't lined with metal, wonder if that has a protective or detrimental effect?
# Posted on November 27th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Flutes and cold weather
if a player has more than his fair share of hot air does it get in tune more quickly...?
# Posted on November 27th 2003 by Yohan
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Hurrah for Yohan. At last someones started to take the pee. I thought I was going to have to go to the library and/or the gym for this one.
Yes Danny - it expands in all dimensions - which means it projects further into time as well, and probably affects the curvature of the space/time continuum. Perhaps thats why it sounds crappy. Eddies in the space time continuum. (I wonder if Eddie plays flute).
Emily - I misread "assuage" as "sausage" (which is the proper word for what, I believe, you folks call wieners). Needless to say this puzzled me for some while before I read it correctly. I hoped it was something to go with the kipper. I have a metal lining in my head. It stops THEM from reading my thoughts.
Dave
# Posted on November 27th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Sausages & kippers? Sounds like you're on masochistic variation of the South Beach diet. Yum!
# Posted on November 27th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Flutes and cold weather
'Hurrah for Yohan' - no one has ever said that before...I'm touched...
# Posted on November 27th 2003 by Yohan
Re: Flutes and cold weather
"Yohan is touched".
I bet that's been said plenty though.
Dave
(snort, splorf, grin etc. take your pick)
# Posted on November 28th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
I'll throw them into the air - you bat them over the grandstand Dave!
# Posted on November 28th 2003 by Yohan
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Wait a minute Yohan - someones stapled a shaky egg on a rubber band to the back of my batting fiddle.
# Posted on November 28th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Flutes and cold weather
so that's what fiddles are for...have you ever seen a pretty batting fiddle?
# Posted on November 28th 2003 by Yohan
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Emily, there's a lot of evidence that an unlined headjoint is a good thing. A good woody tone is one. But perhaps more important is that if the wood shrinks, the metal tube inside, which will not shrink as much, will actually cause the wood to crack.
For the rest of you with Delrin or plastic flutes, try a pair of electric socks. You know, the ones they sell to hunters with cold feet. A battery pack holds 4 AA batteries (rechargeable AA's are available) and the socks are woven with some metal threads I believe. On the way to your frigid event, the socks keep the flute warm. You extract it, and voila', warm flute. For wooden flutes I would make sure you have some humidification also, like one of those cylindrical Dampits in the bore. You don't want the heat to dry the wood, just keep it warm.
Warm regards, Chris
# Posted on November 28th 2003 by unique
Re: Flutes and cold weather
I find myself wondering whether Danny and other players of metal flutes would stick to their instruments in extremely cold weather, like a kid licking a cold window pane. I mean, we're all rather attached to the instruments we play, but ...
# Posted on November 28th 2003 by cuchulain54
Re: Flutes and cold weather
Ha ha! - not any more. It's a wooden Boehm system job with a plastic (presumably Bakelite) lip-plate, that I play these days. Also I don't think it would get quite that cold here in London. Last Paddy's Day, myself, Conan and David from this site did a session on the back of a truck down here and it was bliddy cold - after a few sets all our fingers were numb -- ooyah! Great craic that was, though, apart from that!
# Posted on November 28th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad