after several years I find I can play along quite happily with myself, I know I know no comment neccesery, or with a cd I'm familiar with, but put me in a session even with a tune I'm well aquainted with I find I can't quite ever get to quite the speed that others are going at. I play mandolin and now occasionally tenor banjo but my fingers/head/plectrum can never quite get up to it in a session. Any tips for that extra zip?
Put a few of your favourite tunes in ABCNavigator2 (It's free) or similar and play along at a speed you find comfortable. Increase the speed of the playback by one notch (just click in the box next to the speed control button), which is just about noticeable, and, keeping note of what speeds you play the different tunes at, keep doing that until you struggle, in which case go back a bit, or get up to speed. It takes along time, but it really sorts the smokers from the skin divers. I have a vast bank of ABC tunes divided into various folders, each marked with speeds from 60 (just learning) to 120, increasing by 5 in each, and I move the tunes between them as I learn them. It also helps me not to forget about tunes through not playing them.
If you're playing mandolin in sessions, it could be that by trying to play loud enough, you are slowing yourself down. I find this happening sometimes.
Trying to pick harder leads to gripping the plectrum tighter, which leads to tension in the right wrist and forearm which leads to problems picking at speed.
Make sure you are using the same picking action that you use when you are playing problem-free at home. A heavier plectrum may help if this is the problem.
I've only glanced at the articles cited above, but it's nice to see someone thinking and writing seriously about pick technique for the mandolin. As with any advice you find on this (including mine, which I offer from time to time) you should read her articles carefully, try what she suggests, and use what makes sense to you.
The key factor, in my view, is relaxation, already mentioned but it can never be stressed enough - so to speak. I managed to really mess up my wrists and forearms a number of years ago due to a combination of poor picking technique and bad typing habits - both of which are endemic in today's world. Learning to relax in both activities was a big part of restoring my functionality. Tension in the wrist is to be avoided, but you should pay attention to everything up to and including the upper back. You'll find that tension accumulates in the right shoulder, and under the shoulder blade. This stiffens up your whole arm, all the way down, and screws up your volume, rhythm, speed, and tone, and eventually can cause a great deal of pain.
There are lots of relaxtation techniques - I have my favorites, but you can find lots. Try them. Stretching, breathing exercises, and so forth can all become very useful habits that will improve your volume, speed, and tone to a surprising degree. Combined with good pick technique, this should straighten you out pretty well.
Maybe it's just me, but Ms Mair's playing doesn't inspire me in the least. So I'm not inclined to give much weight to some of her specifics about pick technique. Stay relaxed? Yes. Beyond that, I prefer listening to what Mike Marshall, Chris Thile, and other players have to say (verbally and with their instruments).
One thing that really helped me with speed was learning to play with specific, basic hand rhythms, and then move the articulation around the basic rhythms. I play DUDU DUDU on reels, and DUD DUD on jigs. Again, I will say that there are numerous players of this music, some of them masters in their own right, who scoff at the idea of using repetitive hand rhythms. But there are just as many great players who do use them. So I'm not suggesting that it's the only way to do it.
But for me, this helped greatly in my ability to increase my speed. I was finding that my right hand would get bogged down in strange motions, when I was doing certain things, and that was cutting into my ability to play steadily at a faster tempo. Especially on reels, because the motion is reciprocal.
Thanks for the replies. I think the problem is probably nerves/tension. I pick from the wrist and there seem to be fewer problems when I'm alone. It may be that the few sessions I can attend tend to have a very high standard of [playing and although, on the whole, the players are very friendly and encouraging, I feel selfconcious and embarassed and tighten up. I'm not sure how to overcome this. Drink isn't the answer as although the nerves go, so does the ability :0).
This is the experience I've had, but after nearly 5 years of session playing the tension has to a large extent evaporated. I used to think I could play quite well (at home), but at a session my hands immediately felt like they didn't belong to me, and I would get pains up my right forearm, playing with such pressure that it caused serious fret wear and frequent broken strings. If you play in friendly supportive company and keep trying for a relaxed joyful style without trying too hard, suddenly you notice a difference.
That that little bit of speed
That that little bit of speed
after several years I find I can play along quite happily with myself, I know I know no comment neccesery, or with a cd I'm familiar with, but put me in a session even with a tune I'm well aquainted with I find I can't quite ever get to quite the speed that others are going at. I play mandolin and now occasionally tenor banjo but my fingers/head/plectrum can never quite get up to it in a session. Any tips for that extra zip?
# Posted on April 22nd 2010 by Davetnova
Re: That that little bit of speed
I found these two articles incredibly helpful:
http://www.marilynnmair.com/revisiting_tremolo.shtml
http://www.marilynnmair.com/pick_technique.shtml
I can play faster and break less strings now! It was tension that was slowing me down.
# Posted on April 22nd 2010 by RichardB
Re: That that little bit of speed
Put a few of your favourite tunes in ABCNavigator2 (It's free) or similar and play along at a speed you find comfortable. Increase the speed of the playback by one notch (just click in the box next to the speed control button), which is just about noticeable, and, keeping note of what speeds you play the different tunes at, keep doing that until you struggle, in which case go back a bit, or get up to speed. It takes along time, but it really sorts the smokers from the skin divers. I have a vast bank of ABC tunes divided into various folders, each marked with speeds from 60 (just learning) to 120, increasing by 5 in each, and I move the tunes between them as I learn them. It also helps me not to forget about tunes through not playing them.
# Posted on April 22nd 2010 by gam
Re: That that little bit of speed
If you're playing mandolin in sessions, it could be that by trying to play loud enough, you are slowing yourself down. I find this happening sometimes.
Trying to pick harder leads to gripping the plectrum tighter, which leads to tension in the right wrist and forearm which leads to problems picking at speed.
Make sure you are using the same picking action that you use when you are playing problem-free at home. A heavier plectrum may help if this is the problem.
# Posted on April 22nd 2010 by DaveL35
Re: That that little bit of speed
I've only glanced at the articles cited above, but it's nice to see someone thinking and writing seriously about pick technique for the mandolin. As with any advice you find on this (including mine, which I offer from time to time) you should read her articles carefully, try what she suggests, and use what makes sense to you.
The key factor, in my view, is relaxation, already mentioned but it can never be stressed enough - so to speak. I managed to really mess up my wrists and forearms a number of years ago due to a combination of poor picking technique and bad typing habits - both of which are endemic in today's world. Learning to relax in both activities was a big part of restoring my functionality. Tension in the wrist is to be avoided, but you should pay attention to everything up to and including the upper back. You'll find that tension accumulates in the right shoulder, and under the shoulder blade. This stiffens up your whole arm, all the way down, and screws up your volume, rhythm, speed, and tone, and eventually can cause a great deal of pain.
There are lots of relaxtation techniques - I have my favorites, but you can find lots. Try them. Stretching, breathing exercises, and so forth can all become very useful habits that will improve your volume, speed, and tone to a surprising degree. Combined with good pick technique, this should straighten you out pretty well.
# Posted on April 22nd 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: That that little bit of speed
Maybe it's just me, but Ms Mair's playing doesn't inspire me in the least. So I'm not inclined to give much weight to some of her specifics about pick technique. Stay relaxed? Yes. Beyond that, I prefer listening to what Mike Marshall, Chris Thile, and other players have to say (verbally and with their instruments).
# Posted on April 22nd 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: That that little bit of speed
relax
practice
relax
practice
relax
practice
repeat
# Posted on April 22nd 2010 by shanty
Re: That that little bit of speed
One thing that really helped me with speed was learning to play with specific, basic hand rhythms, and then move the articulation around the basic rhythms. I play DUDU DUDU on reels, and DUD DUD on jigs. Again, I will say that there are numerous players of this music, some of them masters in their own right, who scoff at the idea of using repetitive hand rhythms. But there are just as many great players who do use them. So I'm not suggesting that it's the only way to do it.
But for me, this helped greatly in my ability to increase my speed. I was finding that my right hand would get bogged down in strange motions, when I was doing certain things, and that was cutting into my ability to play steadily at a faster tempo. Especially on reels, because the motion is reciprocal.
# Posted on April 23rd 2010 by Reverend
Re: That that little bit of speed
Thanks for the replies. I think the problem is probably nerves/tension. I pick from the wrist and there seem to be fewer problems when I'm alone. It may be that the few sessions I can attend tend to have a very high standard of [playing and although, on the whole, the players are very friendly and encouraging, I feel selfconcious and embarassed and tighten up. I'm not sure how to overcome this. Drink isn't the answer as although the nerves go, so does the ability :0).
# Posted on April 23rd 2010 by Davetnova
Re: That that little bit of speed
This is the experience I've had, but after nearly 5 years of session playing the tension has to a large extent evaporated. I used to think I could play quite well (at home), but at a session my hands immediately felt like they didn't belong to me, and I would get pains up my right forearm, playing with such pressure that it caused serious fret wear and frequent broken strings. If you play in friendly supportive company and keep trying for a relaxed joyful style without trying too hard, suddenly you notice a difference.
# Posted on April 23rd 2010 by RichardB
Re: That that little bit of speed
>> Drink isn't the answer as although the nerves go, so does the ability <<
You need to drink when you're practising too, so you'll be used to it when you go to the session.
# Posted on April 23rd 2010 by DaveL35
Re: That that little bit of speed
to play well when half in the bag, you must practice while half in the bag...here is wisdom
# Posted on April 25th 2010 by Seosamh Ui Sinan