Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Well, I don't know about Swananoa, but I can say that East Durham is a great place for lessons. The week is also more enjoyable than the chaos of Wille Clancy week.
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Never been to Swannanoa but East Durham is great craic. However, I don't find it more enjoyable than the chaos of Willie Clancy week, as I prefer the chaos.
East Durham has organized sessions with top flight musicians in most of the pubs. When I was last there -- 2006 I guess -- the sessions were classified as closed or open and if they were "open," they were rated as "beginner," "intermediate," "expert," or something to that effect. As someone who likes a bit of chaos, randomness, and spontaneity, that was too much organization for my taste.
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I should add that the nice thing about East Durham is that it's not heaving with every drunken yob in the county, starting fights in the streets and being a general pain in the a*se.
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I've never been to East Durham, but Swannanoa is kept to a size appropriate for the facilities. Class sizes even with the most heavily attended are kept fairly small, so you get good one-on-one time with amazing teachers.
Sessions are not rated, but it is easy to tell when you should, or should not, join in. As they like to say at Swannanoa, if you don't have anything to add musically to a session, just sit back and enjoy the craic.
One nice thing at Swannanoa is you stay on the campus where the classes and sessions are held, so you walk everywhere. The food is typical college food and you stay in dorms, so no amenities beyond the basics. Still, I'm going for my fourth year and expecting another great year.
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I've been to both CIAW (once, in 2005) and Swannanoa (three times in the early 2000s). Recognizing that things may have changed in the intervening time, I would say that CIAW has these things in its favor:
- Class periods are longer. Swannanoa fits in three classes per day, CIAW has two. The latter gives you more depth in instruction.
- I found the CIAW session scene livelier and more interesting. If I go again, I'll probably just take an afternoon class so that I can session until the wee hours.
As jfinkels mentioned, the campus environment at Swannanoa is really nice. At CIAW you either need a car or will be begging rides all of the time. Swannanoa is also a great environment for kids. I brought my pre-teen daughter twice; she loved it and it gave her fiddling a boost.
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
It depends on what you want out of it.
I've never been to Swannanoa, but I've heard plenty about it. People seem to like it quite a bit.
Swannonoa is smaller, not just Irish, and MUCH more geographically concentrated.
I'd guess that it's a bit better for families with kids (I'm not sure of their alcohol policy, but I gather that the festival itself is not as driven by the local bars as East Durhams are).
Catskills Irish Arts Week, on the other hand, is the closest thing to Willie Clancy Week you'll find in America (in both good and bad ways). The classes are scattered over several miles of country roads, some as far as 5 miles away from East Durham itself. The CIAW is much larger, with several times the number of teachers/performers as Swannonoa, but the quality of instruction is basically the same (indeed, many of the teachers have taught at either festival).
As much as the classes are good, the CIAW (as far as I'm concerned) is largely about the evening sessions, which are scattered to the four winds and neighboring towns--some publicized, some impromptu, and some arranged furtively in the hopes that they will be limited in size. This means that attendees need some access to transportation, usually a car--a little unfortunate, considering that most sessions are held at bars. Those who like to drink and NOT drive are left to either walk from venue to venue in the relatively spread out town itself, or catch rides with willing drivers (people tend to be nice, but there's obviously no guarantee).
Both festivals draw musicians in from the surrounding region who come for the sessions rather than the classes, but I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the CIAW, with it's closer proximity to the trad epicenters of New York, New England, and Philadelphia, draws a larger crowd of strong players at the sessions than Swannanoa does--but with the geographic spread, that may not matter so much.
My wife and I try to head down to East Durham just for the final weekend (from Boston). It's a nice chance to see and play tunes with people that we don't get to see terribly often, and it's always a rollicking, bang-up time that leaves one exhausted, hungover, and sleep deprived when it's over.
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Yeah if your goal is to record good, quality live music, CIAW is definitely a winner because the most talented musicians of the area (and many from Ireland) are around and the "listening" sessions mean you can actually hear each musician well.
I think the Ennis Trad. Festival comes second in that regard, since there's not many tourists there in november and there are setup sessions too, although most of them are kind of 'open'.
The thing I don't like about CIAW is that there's not that many pubs, so as Emily was saying, between 9-12 it's not that easy to find a spot for a inpromptu session as most pubs do have a setup session going. Also, if you're trying to avoid a musician that drives you nuts for x reason, it's harder in East Durham than Ennis or Miltown Malbay
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
why not Lark camp? There are few really good Irish pipers there - it's in California - you don't need a car - many sessions every night - in the woods - great food... Just saying...
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I've been to both several times, and while CIAW does have one thing really spectacular - the listining rooms - I've come to appreciate the local nature of Swannanoa. The logistics of getting around CIAW are really daunting. Also, in my opinion, the cafeteria at Swannanoa greatly outshines the medicre food in the catskills, and the cafeteria style setting makes it seem more friendly - everyone's in one place instead of all spread out. As for lessons and concerts, I found them to be equally as good at both places.
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
@Airport- I've known Joey for a while now and he is teaching me how to get around on my regs. Joey actually came in first here at the Midwest Fleadh in 2009 and took 2nd or 3rd at the all Ireland's. Quite the result for a California piper. We are all proud of him out here.
To the rest of the folks that answered my question-thanks
East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Since I can't get to Willie Clancy this year, I'm thinking Swananoa or East Durham- who's going and why. I'd bring my pipes and fiddle.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by I_Fel
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Well, I don't know about Swananoa, but I can say that East Durham is a great place for lessons. The week is also more enjoyable than the chaos of Wille Clancy week.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Azalin
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Never been to Swannanoa but East Durham is great craic. However, I don't find it more enjoyable than the chaos of Willie Clancy week, as I prefer the chaos.
East Durham has organized sessions with top flight musicians in most of the pubs. When I was last there -- 2006 I guess -- the sessions were classified as closed or open and if they were "open," they were rated as "beginner," "intermediate," "expert," or something to that effect. As someone who likes a bit of chaos, randomness, and spontaneity, that was too much organization for my taste.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I should add that the nice thing about East Durham is that it's not heaving with every drunken yob in the county, starting fights in the streets and being a general pain in the a*se.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
CIAW and East Durham to me is like going to Heaven. Not even exagerating! We practically cry when it ends, and can't wait for the next one.
Have you seen the link to register:
http://irishvillageusa.com/
click the Catskills Irish Arts Week tab at mid-left. Registration is open. Please try to come!
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by irisnevins
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I've never been to East Durham, but Swannanoa is kept to a size appropriate for the facilities. Class sizes even with the most heavily attended are kept fairly small, so you get good one-on-one time with amazing teachers.
Sessions are not rated, but it is easy to tell when you should, or should not, join in. As they like to say at Swannanoa, if you don't have anything to add musically to a session, just sit back and enjoy the craic.
One nice thing at Swannanoa is you stay on the campus where the classes and sessions are held, so you walk everywhere. The food is typical college food and you stay in dorms, so no amenities beyond the basics. Still, I'm going for my fourth year and expecting another great year.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by jlfinkels
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I've been to both CIAW (once, in 2005) and Swannanoa (three times in the early 2000s). Recognizing that things may have changed in the intervening time, I would say that CIAW has these things in its favor:
- Class periods are longer. Swannanoa fits in three classes per day, CIAW has two. The latter gives you more depth in instruction.
- I found the CIAW session scene livelier and more interesting. If I go again, I'll probably just take an afternoon class so that I can session until the wee hours.
As jfinkels mentioned, the campus environment at Swannanoa is really nice. At CIAW you either need a car or will be begging rides all of the time. Swannanoa is also a great environment for kids. I brought my pre-teen daughter twice; she loved it and it gave her fiddling a boost.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by boxist
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
It depends on what you want out of it.
I've never been to Swannanoa, but I've heard plenty about it. People seem to like it quite a bit.
Swannonoa is smaller, not just Irish, and MUCH more geographically concentrated.
I'd guess that it's a bit better for families with kids (I'm not sure of their alcohol policy, but I gather that the festival itself is not as driven by the local bars as East Durhams are).
Catskills Irish Arts Week, on the other hand, is the closest thing to Willie Clancy Week you'll find in America (in both good and bad ways). The classes are scattered over several miles of country roads, some as far as 5 miles away from East Durham itself. The CIAW is much larger, with several times the number of teachers/performers as Swannonoa, but the quality of instruction is basically the same (indeed, many of the teachers have taught at either festival).
As much as the classes are good, the CIAW (as far as I'm concerned) is largely about the evening sessions, which are scattered to the four winds and neighboring towns--some publicized, some impromptu, and some arranged furtively in the hopes that they will be limited in size. This means that attendees need some access to transportation, usually a car--a little unfortunate, considering that most sessions are held at bars. Those who like to drink and NOT drive are left to either walk from venue to venue in the relatively spread out town itself, or catch rides with willing drivers (people tend to be nice, but there's obviously no guarantee).
Both festivals draw musicians in from the surrounding region who come for the sessions rather than the classes, but I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the CIAW, with it's closer proximity to the trad epicenters of New York, New England, and Philadelphia, draws a larger crowd of strong players at the sessions than Swannanoa does--but with the geographic spread, that may not matter so much.
My wife and I try to head down to East Durham just for the final weekend (from Boston). It's a nice chance to see and play tunes with people that we don't get to see terribly often, and it's always a rollicking, bang-up time that leaves one exhausted, hungover, and sleep deprived when it's over.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Georgi
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Yeah if your goal is to record good, quality live music, CIAW is definitely a winner because the most talented musicians of the area (and many from Ireland) are around and the "listening" sessions mean you can actually hear each musician well.
I think the Ennis Trad. Festival comes second in that regard, since there's not many tourists there in november and there are setup sessions too, although most of them are kind of 'open'.
The thing I don't like about CIAW is that there's not that many pubs, so as Emily was saying, between 9-12 it's not that easy to find a spot for a inpromptu session as most pubs do have a setup session going. Also, if you're trying to avoid a musician that drives you nuts for x reason, it's harder in East Durham than Ennis or Miltown Malbay
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Azalin
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
why not Lark camp? There are few really good Irish pipers there - it's in California - you don't need a car - many sessions every night - in the woods - great food... Just saying...
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by airport
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
hah - I meant "a few"!! Do you know that Joey Abarta kid who won the All-Ireland last year? I think he lives in LA
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by airport
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I've been to both several times, and while CIAW does have one thing really spectacular - the listining rooms - I've come to appreciate the local nature of Swannanoa. The logistics of getting around CIAW are really daunting. Also, in my opinion, the cafeteria at Swannanoa greatly outshines the medicre food in the catskills, and the cafeteria style setting makes it seem more friendly - everyone's in one place instead of all spread out. As for lessons and concerts, I found them to be equally as good at both places.
# Posted on April 8th 2010 by pkerns
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
@Airport- I've known Joey for a while now and he is teaching me how to get around on my regs. Joey actually came in first here at the Midwest Fleadh in 2009 and took 2nd or 3rd at the all Ireland's. Quite the result for a California piper. We are all proud of him out here.
To the rest of the folks that answered my question-thanks
# Posted on April 8th 2010 by I_Fel
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Oh, God, the food in the Catskills was horrendous. I had blocked that part out.
# Posted on April 9th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
you think that was bad!? you should try the Roadkills.
# Posted on April 9th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
I have, two pheasants the last time, fresh kills, and after a wee bit of hanging they were tasty fare...
# Posted on April 12th 2010 by ceolachan
Re: East Durham or Swananoa for lessons and tunes-which one?
Ever tried Badger? Delicious.
# Posted on April 12th 2010 by piobagusfidil