We've had a few discussions that recently touched on this, mostly pointing at the negative aspects of lists - the goal-oriented mentality, the arbitrary schedule (N tunes per week, or bust), and the concommitant loss of fun.
Well and good, but there are good ways to use lists. Keeping track of tunes you've learned can remind you of the ones you've forgotten, if you're performing it's very useful to have a list of the common repertoire of your outfit, and so forth.
So, what do you use lists for, and how do they help you?
Actually, lists do serve that purpose for me that you mentioned, that is, reminding me of tunes I mean to learn, since I know so few. I don't really keep lists, but rather recordings, which my iTunes keeps listed for me. I listen and then run into a tune and say to myself "Oh yeah, I need to learn that one." Then I put it in my mental queue and due to my busy life I either remember to try and figure it out the next time I pick up an instrument, or I forget about it and the next I hear the tune I say "Oh yeah, I need to learn that one."
I think you touched on the two reasons I keep lists--so I remember which ones I know, and also for managing my performing group's repetoire (I am the set list boy for the group). I also keep lists of tunes I want to learn, reminds me to practice them between sessions, so I don't embarrass myself too badly when I drag them out. I used to set goals for tune learning, but found that, if I rushed the process, I didn't learn them as well.
I keep a list in a spreadsheet file on my computer, In addition to the titles, I also have columns for the date when I added the tune to my list, who I got the tune from, and other random comments such as the location of the session where I got or the source of a good recorded version.
I find that keeping this additional context helps inject some life into the learning process. And now that my list is well primed, it's rare that I actually add tunes to it. Mostly I just get reminded that I _still_ haven't learned a tune that I first heard years ago...
I mostly use tune lists to help other people, particularly my session mates. They've asked for lists of the tunes most often played at our local sessions, and my brain happens to be the local repository, so....
I also keep a list for the local tune learning session I host. That way, if someone misses a week, they can see what tune we did. It also helps folks keep track of all the tunes they've learned and can be woodshedding on.
So the main purpose is to help everyone play a common, shared repertoire of tunes. Of course, everyone is welcome to bring new tunes to the mix, too. That happens a lot.
Personally, I don't use lists much at all. Unless you count a parts list when going to the hardware store. For music, though, I prefer to let tunes percolate up from wherever they go when I'm not playing them.
I am the keeper of the lists of everything we have performed for a band I play in, and make and keep the set lists for our various gigs so that if we have to play at short notice I can whip something up.
I have a list of all the tunes I've heard here, but now that it's over 700, I don't keep it up. I suppose I get asked for it twice a year.
I have a much shorter list of tunes I would like to learn that is constantly changing.
I used to have an up-to-date list of tunes I knew with ABCs for the first 2 bars, but now I find I don't keep it up and I don't bring it anywhere, so it's not much use. Haven't deleted the files yet...
I keep a current list of tunes to play, both for the band I am in, and for myself. Some musicians give me the impression that they think I am cheating, or something, when I look over my list to see what might be appropriate to play next; but if I don't do it, it is unlikely that I will be able to come up with anything satisfactory (being somewhat over the age of thirty.)
Others, some of whom are barely over the age of thirty, often can't come up with a set or even a tune when I ask them to, but they seem loathe to try my method.
I appreciate that some cannot connect a tune name to the music, but that is another issue; sometimes dealt with by printing a few (shudder) dots as a reminder.
The point? To remember to play stuff that I ain't played in a while. Like oldstrings, I may even need to (THE HORROR) look at the first few dots to remind myself, along with a musty old name on my list.
Matt Molloy remarked in an interview how he keeps a little notebook with names of tunes and the first few notes to remind himself.
So, you're more hardcore than him, eh? No lists for you, eh? Good for you. Go on with your badself.
Like I said on the other thread, and like Timmy, I use a spreadsheet, and it's great. Mind you, that may be my inclination. When I was lecturing in a technical college I was the first staff member to use Perfect Calc to do my own household budget. (Gosh, we had computers with TWO five-and-a-quarter floppies! Liberation!)
It would probably be unhelpful (and certainly unpleasant) for a player with many years experience and many tunes under their belt to start such a list, but if you start keeping it at an early stage, it's easy, and flexible: How many hornpipes in Em have I got? What's my ratio of polkas to reels? And so on. Probably I don't care about the answers, but I can find them if I want.
I know a fair few trad musicians, many of them pretty decent. As far as I can tell / remember, just about all of them - like me - keep lists of the tunes that they know. And just about all of those lists - like mine - are so shamblingly chaotic that they're hardly any use.
If it's a tune that I know that maybe I've not played for a while I've no problems remembering when I hear the first couple of bars. Ask me to play a tune and your going to get what I'm playing at the moment or the tunes I know I have in common with the other people present, apart from that the mind goes blank.
Lists I keep for my own use and they never leave the house.
I accompanied a fiddler for quite a while who would agonize all day long putting a set list together for that evenings gig. To the point that he became a pain in the ar$e, what do you think of this that those, do you think this is a good change etc.. Once we started and he got in full flow his set list became trodden under foot forgotten. I think he just used it as a prompt to get going because once started the list didn't get a second glance. That guy knows lots of tunes and has fantastic recall when in the zone. About 17or 18 years ago when he was in his late 20's we played for 12 hours straight and the only tunes he repeated were those kicked off by a box payer who sat in with us for an hour or two, I reckon he has at least the same again now if not more. I know I'll never have that many tunes or anywhere near it and even if I did, I couldn't recall a fraction without a list. Some people just have that ability.
I like a loose-leaf list. My 'list' is actually a ring binder with (shock horror!) dots for all the tunes I play.
Tunes I want to practice or play more move to the front, tunes I've played a lot recently move back. Tunes I think might go together as a set get paperclipped together.
When I move tunes I've played back in the file, other tunes I haven't played for a while float to the front and get brought out again.
(Don't worry, I don't take the file to sessions, just use it to decide what tunes to take, and give them a quick run through to make sure I remember them before I leave home)
I keep a list and I TRY to check any that I've played that day. The only reason is to remind me to play the neglected tunes every couple of weeks so I don't forget them
Using ABCNavigator I have separate files for reels jigs etc These are reference lists. When I decide to learn a tune it gets copied to (say) "My jigs learning". When it is learnt but needs maintenance through practice it gets transferred to"my jigs practice" and finally when fully lodged in the skull it moves to "My jigs" ABC files are so small that very little computer space is needed. When practicing I don't have to look at the ABC's or the dots. Just looking at the name or playing the first few notes in midi is sufficient to remind me how the tune goes.
Not very handy for taking to a session though
In addition to a list, I keep an antilist of tunes that I hate and refuse to learn. I figure there's no reason to waste time learning crappy tunes when there are so many good ones out there. The antilist is much shorter than the list. I keep it in order to avoid a situation in which my teacher decides to introduce me to a new tune and we're six bars in before I realize, oh, it's *that* one.
Fortunately, my teacher has good taste, and there was only the one time that I anticipated that he'd try to teach me [redacted because oldstrings doesn't need one more thing to use against me], at which point I told him that he'd have to pick something else.
The point of lists
The point of lists
We've had a few discussions that recently touched on this, mostly pointing at the negative aspects of lists - the goal-oriented mentality, the arbitrary schedule (N tunes per week, or bust), and the concommitant loss of fun.
Well and good, but there are good ways to use lists. Keeping track of tunes you've learned can remind you of the ones you've forgotten, if you're performing it's very useful to have a list of the common repertoire of your outfit, and so forth.
So, what do you use lists for, and how do they help you?
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The point of lists
Actually, lists do serve that purpose for me that you mentioned, that is, reminding me of tunes I mean to learn, since I know so few. I don't really keep lists, but rather recordings, which my iTunes keeps listed for me. I listen and then run into a tune and say to myself "Oh yeah, I need to learn that one." Then I put it in my mental queue and due to my busy life I either remember to try and figure it out the next time I pick up an instrument, or I forget about it and the next I hear the tune I say "Oh yeah, I need to learn that one."
Does that count?
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: The point of lists
I think you touched on the two reasons I keep lists--so I remember which ones I know, and also for managing my performing group's repetoire (I am the set list boy for the group). I also keep lists of tunes I want to learn, reminds me to practice them between sessions, so I don't embarrass myself too badly when I drag them out. I used to set goals for tune learning, but found that, if I rushed the process, I didn't learn them as well.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: The point of lists
Arse biscuits! The board swallowed my reply.... grr...
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Pat Mustard
Re: The point of lists
LiathróidÃ!! It did it again. I give up. I'm going to bed.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Pat Mustard
Re: The point of lists
I keep a list in a spreadsheet file on my computer, In addition to the titles, I also have columns for the date when I added the tune to my list, who I got the tune from, and other random comments such as the location of the session where I got or the source of a good recorded version.
I find that keeping this additional context helps inject some life into the learning process. And now that my list is well primed, it's rare that I actually add tunes to it. Mostly I just get reminded that I _still_ haven't learned a tune that I first heard years ago...
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by timmy!
Re: The point of lists
I mostly use tune lists to help other people, particularly my session mates. They've asked for lists of the tunes most often played at our local sessions, and my brain happens to be the local repository, so....
I also keep a list for the local tune learning session I host. That way, if someone misses a week, they can see what tune we did. It also helps folks keep track of all the tunes they've learned and can be woodshedding on.
So the main purpose is to help everyone play a common, shared repertoire of tunes. Of course, everyone is welcome to bring new tunes to the mix, too. That happens a lot.
Personally, I don't use lists much at all. Unless you count a parts list when going to the hardware store. For music, though, I prefer to let tunes percolate up from wherever they go when I'm not playing them.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: The point of lists
I am the keeper of the lists of everything we have performed for a band I play in, and make and keep the set lists for our various gigs so that if we have to play at short notice I can whip something up.
I have a list of all the tunes I've heard here, but now that it's over 700, I don't keep it up. I suppose I get asked for it twice a year.
I have a much shorter list of tunes I would like to learn that is constantly changing.
I used to have an up-to-date list of tunes I knew with ABCs for the first 2 bars, but now I find I don't keep it up and I don't bring it anywhere, so it's not much use. Haven't deleted the files yet...
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by flutefry
Re: The point of lists
I keep a current list of tunes to play, both for the band I am in, and for myself. Some musicians give me the impression that they think I am cheating, or something, when I look over my list to see what might be appropriate to play next; but if I don't do it, it is unlikely that I will be able to come up with anything satisfactory (being somewhat over the age of thirty.)
Others, some of whom are barely over the age of thirty, often can't come up with a set or even a tune when I ask them to, but they seem loathe to try my method.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: The point of lists
I appreciate that some cannot connect a tune name to the music, but that is another issue; sometimes dealt with by printing a few (shudder) dots as a reminder.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: The point of lists
Will - without a parts list, I might not even GET to the hardware store!
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by oldstrings
Re: The point of lists
The point? To remember to play stuff that I ain't played in a while. Like oldstrings, I may even need to (THE HORROR) look at the first few dots to remind myself, along with a musty old name on my list.
Matt Molloy remarked in an interview how he keeps a little notebook with names of tunes and the first few notes to remind himself.
So, you're more hardcore than him, eh? No lists for you, eh? Good for you. Go on with your badself.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The point of lists
Like I said on the other thread, and like Timmy, I use a spreadsheet, and it's great. Mind you, that may be my inclination. When I was lecturing in a technical college I was the first staff member to use Perfect Calc to do my own household budget. (Gosh, we had computers with TWO five-and-a-quarter floppies! Liberation!)
It would probably be unhelpful (and certainly unpleasant) for a player with many years experience and many tunes under their belt to start such a list, but if you start keeping it at an early stage, it's easy, and flexible: How many hornpipes in Em have I got? What's my ratio of polkas to reels? And so on. Probably I don't care about the answers, but I can find them if I want.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Alex Wilding
Re: The point of lists
So I'm sure we're all wondering... what's your ratio of polkas to reels?
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: The point of lists
I learn and forget polkas on the fly....
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: The point of lists
You mean somebody cares?!!!
Well since you ask, I just checked, and P:R::4:7 quite closely.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Alex Wilding
Re: The point of lists
I know a fair few trad musicians, many of them pretty decent. As far as I can tell / remember, just about all of them - like me - keep lists of the tunes that they know. And just about all of those lists - like mine - are so shamblingly chaotic that they're hardly any use.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by ethical blend
Re: The point of lists
If it's a tune that I know that maybe I've not played for a while I've no problems remembering when I hear the first couple of bars. Ask me to play a tune and your going to get what I'm playing at the moment or the tunes I know I have in common with the other people present, apart from that the mind goes blank.
Lists I keep for my own use and they never leave the house.
I accompanied a fiddler for quite a while who would agonize all day long putting a set list together for that evenings gig. To the point that he became a pain in the ar$e, what do you think of this that those, do you think this is a good change etc.. Once we started and he got in full flow his set list became trodden under foot forgotten. I think he just used it as a prompt to get going because once started the list didn't get a second glance. That guy knows lots of tunes and has fantastic recall when in the zone. About 17or 18 years ago when he was in his late 20's we played for 12 hours straight and the only tunes he repeated were those kicked off by a box payer who sat in with us for an hour or two, I reckon he has at least the same again now if not more. I know I'll never have that many tunes or anywhere near it and even if I did, I couldn't recall a fraction without a list. Some people just have that ability.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Solidmahog
Re: The point of lists
I like a loose-leaf list. My 'list' is actually a ring binder with (shock horror!) dots for all the tunes I play.
Tunes I want to practice or play more move to the front, tunes I've played a lot recently move back. Tunes I think might go together as a set get paperclipped together.
When I move tunes I've played back in the file, other tunes I haven't played for a while float to the front and get brought out again.
(Don't worry, I don't take the file to sessions, just use it to decide what tunes to take, and give them a quick run through to make sure I remember them before I leave home)
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by skreech
Re: The point of lists
I keep a list and I TRY to check any that I've played that day. The only reason is to remind me to play the neglected tunes every couple of weeks so I don't forget them
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by nfldbox
Re: The point of lists
Using ABCNavigator I have separate files for reels jigs etc These are reference lists. When I decide to learn a tune it gets copied to (say) "My jigs learning". When it is learnt but needs maintenance through practice it gets transferred to"my jigs practice" and finally when fully lodged in the skull it moves to "My jigs" ABC files are so small that very little computer space is needed. When practicing I don't have to look at the ABC's or the dots. Just looking at the name or playing the first few notes in midi is sufficient to remind me how the tune goes.
Not very handy for taking to a session though
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by deeor
Re: The point of lists
In addition to a list, I keep an antilist of tunes that I hate and refuse to learn. I figure there's no reason to waste time learning crappy tunes when there are so many good ones out there. The antilist is much shorter than the list. I keep it in order to avoid a situation in which my teacher decides to introduce me to a new tune and we're six bars in before I realize, oh, it's *that* one.
Fortunately, my teacher has good taste, and there was only the one time that I anticipated that he'd try to teach me [redacted because oldstrings doesn't need one more thing to use against me], at which point I told him that he'd have to pick something else.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: The point of lists
Other people keep the lists for me. I just play along.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by vonnieestes
Re: The point of lists
I never use lists, my reasons being:
1. They are limiting
2. They cannot be comprehensive
3. I can never find them when I need them.
Nope - no lists.
Ah, there's my coffee.
Good day, all.
# Posted on April 8th 2010 by Piece