I just had a slight mental aberration whilst listening to an ITM CD;
Was I hearing the music, or the musicians playing the music?
Which one was I listening to?
What do you listen to?
What do you hear?
What do you aim to emulate?
If it's an instrument I don't play, then I will most likely be listening to the music.
If it's an instrument I do play, then I might sometimes listen to the musician.
In general, I aim to emulate the music.
If I am working on a specific piece of ornamentation or technique, then I might aim to emulate the musician.
There are undoubtedly times when my enjoyment is diminishd because I am focusing more on the musician than on the music.
Regardless of the kind of music, musicians tend to listen to musicianship. It's part of how we appreciate and learn music. No big mysery there. However, I find that I am more inclined to listen to the music if it's more of an ensemble, that is, where no particular musicians are the focus. If it's a solo performer or a group where one musician is the "star," I'm more inclined to listen to the musician.
Hmm, I know what you mean, but I honestly don't know.
Ive played since I was a boy, I have never know what it is to listen to music as a non musician,[ bar a few early years] It is what it is, and I am what I am.
I don't however aim to emulate anyone, I aspire to play the pipes as well as I can. I suppose I aspire to play the fiddle as well as Bobby Casey, while knowing full well I will never in a million years achieve that aim.
When I started playing trad guitar there were no role models, none that I knew of back then anyhow, I had to find my own way.
So I aspire to realise my own full potential and I try to inspire others to do the same.
The glib answer is that the true musician lifts the veil between you and the music. The ego required in the execution (and it is needed, make no mistake) must not show in the end product. A great musician gives music its full voice, and if there's a bit of your voice deliberately interposed you're diminishing the music. But, as I say, that's just glib. Ask yourself what's happening when you play the tunes yourself. Are you in the service of yourself or are you in the service of the diddley? The wrong approach to this music is perfectly articulated in the above post. If you're aspiring to anything other than having fun with your mates you have a severe ego problem, and, tragically, it will lead to a very distorted view of your own place in the scheme of things. As is all too obvious from the above.
What you are listening to is the same whether you say you are listening to the musician or to the music. You're trying to make a distinction where there isn't a difference.
oh Steve, so if someone doesn't approach the music like you do then they have an ego problem LOL Irony.
Yes when I was 14 it was all about tunes with my mates, 30+ yrs on its nothing to do with tunes with my mates. Sure its fun the odd session, but they are almost completely irrelevant to my appreciation and enjoyment of this musical journey I am on.
Just keep telling yourself you're on a journey. You're hardly Van Gogh, are you. I could recommend a good dictionary in which you could look up "irony," too. If it's nothing to do with tunes with your mates I don't know why you're involved in this music. How sad for you. That's what's all about to me and long may it remain so.
It's tricky. We'd all like to pretend that our egos have little to do with it. At best, they don't. When there's too much ego the music suffers. It's a fine balance. You can't make music without having a 'you' to make it, but if there's too much 'you' there's no room for the music.
It's a good thing to let go of the ego. It's only a challenge if you cannot. Very ocassionally I will take a toke ~ it's just too strong the way it's grown in California these days. I still need to preserve the brain cells I have left. Having said that, it is one of the best ways to calm your ego. Even Guinness can't do that. To answer the question ~ both. Oops, gotta go.
Cheers!
My two cents. If you can't hear the music for the musician (like not being able to see the forest for the trees), then the musician is trying too hard. It's a bit like when someone new walks into a party--do you notice them, or their clothes? If it's their clothes, then they're trying to hard to impress, and it backfires.
For this music in particular, it can't help but sound like you when you play it, so trying to make it sound more "you" is pointless at best and a disservice to the music at worst. Paraphrasing Martin Hayes: The more someone tries to impress me, the less impressed I am.
I'd never thought about this, but now that you mention it, I have a sort of internal image of the person who showed the tune to the person I am listening to, through a sort of aural window. If the music/ian is good enough, it can go back two or three -- aagh. Now MY head has exploded. Jings. Get a cloth...
I bought Matt Molloy's Stony Steps soon after it came out, listened to it a lot to start with then maybe a dozen times a year. I was listening to the music.
Then at a concert, can't remember who, I heard one of the tunes played sufficiently differently for me to start thinking about it differently. The next few time I play the CD when that tune comes round, I am listening to the tune, its phrasing and the variations more deliberately. I was listening to the tune.
Then I start learning flute and now sometimes I'm listening to the musician (mainly the breathing places and phrasing to start with), sometimes I'm listening to the tune and sometimes driving along in the car I am listening to the music more or less the way I always did. I think.
I listen to both the music and the musician or musicians.
I participate in the local Irish sessions and other music sessions because I enjoy playing music whether or not it is Irish music or some other type of music. I prefer to spend my free time when I am not at work at my day job doing something I genuinely enjoy which is playing music.
Music or Musician?
Music or Musician?
I just had a slight mental aberration whilst listening to an ITM CD;
Was I hearing the music, or the musicians playing the music?
Which one was I listening to?
What do you listen to?
What do you hear?
What do you aim to emulate?
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Rick Payman
Re: Music or Musician?
How do you tell the dancer from the dance?
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Bob himself
Re: Music or Musician?
If it's an instrument I don't play, then I will most likely be listening to the music.
If it's an instrument I do play, then I might sometimes listen to the musician.
In general, I aim to emulate the music.
If I am working on a specific piece of ornamentation or technique, then I might aim to emulate the musician.
There are undoubtedly times when my enjoyment is diminishd because I am focusing more on the musician than on the music.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Music or Musician?
Regardless of the kind of music, musicians tend to listen to musicianship. It's part of how we appreciate and learn music. No big mysery there. However, I find that I am more inclined to listen to the music if it's more of an ensemble, that is, where no particular musicians are the focus. If it's a solo performer or a group where one musician is the "star," I'm more inclined to listen to the musician.
However, it's always a blend in any case.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Music or Musician?
I listen to both.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by pipersgrip
Re: Music or Musician?
Hmm, I know what you mean, but I honestly don't know.
Ive played since I was a boy, I have never know what it is to listen to music as a non musician,[ bar a few early years] It is what it is, and I am what I am.
I don't however aim to emulate anyone, I aspire to play the pipes as well as I can. I suppose I aspire to play the fiddle as well as Bobby Casey, while knowing full well I will never in a million years achieve that aim.
When I started playing trad guitar there were no role models, none that I knew of back then anyhow, I had to find my own way.
So I aspire to realise my own full potential and I try to inspire others to do the same.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Music or Musician?
The glib answer is that the true musician lifts the veil between you and the music. The ego required in the execution (and it is needed, make no mistake) must not show in the end product. A great musician gives music its full voice, and if there's a bit of your voice deliberately interposed you're diminishing the music. But, as I say, that's just glib. Ask yourself what's happening when you play the tunes yourself. Are you in the service of yourself or are you in the service of the diddley? The wrong approach to this music is perfectly articulated in the above post. If you're aspiring to anything other than having fun with your mates you have a severe ego problem, and, tragically, it will lead to a very distorted view of your own place in the scheme of things. As is all too obvious from the above.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Music or Musician?
What you are listening to is the same whether you say you are listening to the musician or to the music. You're trying to make a distinction where there isn't a difference.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Bernie 29
Re: Music or Musician?
Chicken or egg?
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Music or Musician?
oh Steve, so if someone doesn't approach the music like you do then they have an ego problem LOL Irony.
Yes when I was 14 it was all about tunes with my mates, 30+ yrs on its nothing to do with tunes with my mates. Sure its fun the odd session, but they are almost completely irrelevant to my appreciation and enjoyment of this musical journey I am on.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Music or Musician?
Just keep telling yourself you're on a journey. You're hardly Van Gogh, are you. I could recommend a good dictionary in which you could look up "irony," too. If it's nothing to do with tunes with your mates I don't know why you're involved in this music. How sad for you. That's what's all about to me and long may it remain so.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Music or Musician?
what it's innit.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Music or Musician?
It's tricky. We'd all like to pretend that our egos have little to do with it. At best, they don't. When there's too much ego the music suffers. It's a fine balance. You can't make music without having a 'you' to make it, but if there's too much 'you' there's no room for the music.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Music or Musician?
...or your friends for that matter! Or anyone else, I guess.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Music or Musician?
You need your ego to get yourself as far as the pub door. That's where you should leave it. That about sums it up.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Music or Musician?
Music only. Musicians are weirdos.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by shanty
Re: Music or Musician?
It's a good thing to let go of the ego. It's only a challenge if you cannot. Very ocassionally I will take a toke ~ it's just too strong the way it's grown in California these days. I still need to preserve the brain cells I have left. Having said that, it is one of the best ways to calm your ego. Even Guinness can't do that. To answer the question ~ both. Oops, gotta go.
Cheers!
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Music or Musician?
My two cents. If you can't hear the music for the musician (like not being able to see the forest for the trees), then the musician is trying too hard. It's a bit like when someone new walks into a party--do you notice them, or their clothes? If it's their clothes, then they're trying to hard to impress, and it backfires.
For this music in particular, it can't help but sound like you when you play it, so trying to make it sound more "you" is pointless at best and a disservice to the music at worst. Paraphrasing Martin Hayes: The more someone tries to impress me, the less impressed I am.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Music or Musician?
my head just exploded.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Gringo
Re: Music or Musician?
Clean up on the mustard aisle!
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Music or Musician?
I'd never thought about this, but now that you mention it, I have a sort of internal image of the person who showed the tune to the person I am listening to, through a sort of aural window. If the music/ian is good enough, it can go back two or three -- aagh. Now MY head has exploded. Jings. Get a cloth...
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by gam
Re: Music or Musician?
MOP AND BUCKET, STAT, TO THE CONDIMENTS AISLE!!!
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Music or Musician?
I bought Matt Molloy's Stony Steps soon after it came out, listened to it a lot to start with then maybe a dozen times a year. I was listening to the music.
Then at a concert, can't remember who, I heard one of the tunes played sufficiently differently for me to start thinking about it differently. The next few time I play the CD when that tune comes round, I am listening to the tune, its phrasing and the variations more deliberately. I was listening to the tune.
Then I start learning flute and now sometimes I'm listening to the musician (mainly the breathing places and phrasing to start with), sometimes I'm listening to the tune and sometimes driving along in the car I am listening to the music more or less the way I always did. I think.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by David50
Re: Music or Musician?
I listen to both the music and the musician or musicians.
I participate in the local Irish sessions and other music sessions because I enjoy playing music whether or not it is Irish music or some other type of music. I prefer to spend my free time when I am not at work at my day job doing something I genuinely enjoy which is playing music.
# Posted on April 7th 2010 by fauxcelt