I am still new to this genre , and new to the fiddle . In my search to find music to listen to , I have found that I am a little closed minded to the different recordings that are out there.
Mostly I listen to solo fiddle recordings of tunes , when I hear singing or drums and even some of the more popular ITM bands.
I just do not like it.
So what gives ? , Should I just listen to it until I become acclimated to it ? Do you want me to give you examples of what I like and do not like ?
Many people start out listening to popular 'ITM' (ugh) bands and take years to progress to listening to solo fiddle recordings. Well done for finding a short cut.
Sturgeon's Law applies. If you hear something you like, listen to it, learn it, play it. If it's part of the 90%, let it go by.
Just be willing to hear it again in a few years, you might find that you change your mind as you hear more.
The rules are simple, just as in most aspects of life. With ITM, as with any type of music, you listen to what you enjoy. BUT, be aware of certain things:
1. Don't close your mind to other variations of your type of music. Even if you don't like them other equally devoted individuals might.
2. Enjoy your listening, but be aware that as time passes your taste may change.
3. This is the most important. Don't fall into the trap of believing that your taste is somehow superior to other people's. We all have our own views on what makes up ITM, please respect other people's right to like something different from you - and they might even like other instruments than the fiddle.
There's only two types of music. Good music and bad music. I've discovered a long time ago that I like good music and most everyone else is listening to crap. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
How do you find being in a session ?
( After all, that is what this site is about. )
There's a whole different feel to a session then a band.
Or would you rather just hear, and play, a solo instrument ?
Whatever your answer, you do seem to have some good taste already, as shanty suggests.
Yes, the best advise is to like whatever it is you like but don't automatically shut out everything else(there's a lot out there- the world's BIG- never stop growing). If interested in playing with others try to find like minded individuals who are at least in the same ball park as you musically (or not, if the only goal is to 'play with others' although I wouldn't compromise, much, my enjoyment of music just to 'play with others'--I've done that in the past--it can kill your spirit). On the other hand you needn't play with anyone else if you don't want to. Maybe you don't like "ITM". So what? Donnaworry about the label. Enjoy your music.
I listen to solo fiddle, solo pipes , some duets and occasional trios, all pure drop, mostly old recordings. I have the odd modern recording, [post 1980] If by some strange chance something comes on with a song, I FF to the next track. I'm interested in the tunes, and the old players.
If a singer starts up at a session, I wait patiently till they finish, but Im there for the tunes...Do we welcome singers? yes, Bodhran players too, and spoons.... The very idea that a spoon player or Bodhran would not be welcome does not occur at all, to anyone. It is completely alien to the tradition as we know it here in this part of Clare. Mind its pretty rural round here!
You like pure drop (though your understanding of it, going from your post, is suspect to say the least) yet you welcome spoons. You are clearly two different people, both completely unsorted.
Your right lazyhound, the threads tonight seem to blur together... ..
Of course we welcome spoons?! The very idea that they might not be welcome is completely alien. Now if the player is awful, then fair enough, he might find himself trick riding a bike in the yard, but that applies to any instrument played badly and insistently.... Its about sensitivity to session dynamics and simple common manners.
You simply don't understand Steve. For example the spoon player, and singer at our local session, is the sister of a fine fiddler, and his 2 brothers a great fluter and a banjo player, all sired by one of Ireland's finest Singers of his Generation.... Another friend, who plays spoons is Internationally recognized as one of Ireland's Finest Whistle and flute players ..... The very idea that these folk would be unwelcome because of the instrument they chose to play is ludicrous. The local Bodhrán player is married to a top notch Fluter . Some of these folk have been playing 40 -50 yrs.... This is a rural, tightly knit community in the heart of Co Clare Steve. The session is open , welcoming, an exceedingly high standard and attitudes likesome I meet here would receive short thrift indeed.
I have every sympathy and understanding for folk stuck out on the margins, plagued by thumpers and strummers who know not the wherewithall of the music, but please, dont assume that its like that everywhere because it is not.
"Another friend, who plays spoons is Internationally recognized as one of Ireland's Finest Whistle and flute players."
Why do they play the spoons with you then. Seems an odd session, internationally renowned tune players playing the spoons ... and you on your guitar as the glue holding it together? You're right, I don't understand, but at least it's an exceedingly high standard of spoon playing and strumming. And it is open and welcoming. (at least to people of your high standard - with those that aren't, being sent on their bikes)
I say invite 'em all--strummers, thwackers, goat thumpers, hackers, hedge trimmers, spooners, and egg thingy shakers.
Just make sure they all bring their metronomes along with soze they can all play the same speed together.
OP john, you could no better than listen to Uilleann pipers for inspiration, check out Pat Mitchel, Johnny Doran, Tommy Kearney. I like up and coming piper Barry Kerr, hes on you tube.
Yeah flosser, these sessions that ban all thumpers! Do they put it up on a poster?; ''' no dogs ,thumpers or spoon 'benders .. No travelers too probably....
Im only havin a laugh, IMO you take yourself too seriously flosser.
No Im certainly not putting the session up here! Jeez we might get folk like you there!
Careful, he's a martial arts expert too (has that got anything to do with making people do "trick riding a bike in the back yard"?). But give the guy a break, he can't can't be all that bad if he's focused on the music pretty much all day every day since 1984. He is someone so dedicated as to even describe his children as mere diversions.
Jig, if you like, you can hide behind your: "So as to avoid tedious suspensions Im not engaging with certain members here in subjects that are not directly related to the music and in fact may well not respond to their provocation or comments at all."
However, As a direct question, is your session an open session?
The point is, from all anyone's seen of him up there online, he can't' play. One fine day this pontificator-in-chief will put something up there that demonstrates that his preachifying here has actually got some substance. He is, as yet, seriously lacking in this department is this guru of ours. p*ss or get off the pot, hickedwackernnejiginaneanustraddoodah. Prove you can play. Some of us don't believe yer, mate. I hold not my breath.
He has already proved emphatically that he can't Steve, on that SoundLantern site that was going for a while and with the mysteriously now not working links on his profile here. That's part of the reason the multi personalities, thread crossing, name-dropping, bragging and general bull- pooing gets on so many t!ts here, and brings about suspensions for folk who don't want naive or innocent visitors to this site to be fed with crap, much of it damaging crap.
I really get frustrated when the threads get more personal. We ALL love ITM, and that answers the original question. 'Am I a better player than you?' and 'are you good enough to express an opinion?' seem more like questions for the playground than on a 'serious' forum like this. If I can draw on a football analogy to demonstrate my point, I love watching Barcelona, Manchester United, etc play but I also enjoy the enthusiasm of the pub-team players on a Sunday morning, Surely, if ITM is to flourish, then every encouragement must be given to ALL players. How else will they improve if they are not allowed to play at sessions and mix with better players? It all seems so obvious to me, or am I missing something?
I agree. And you can shout all the advice you want at the players on the telly and scream that the ref needs specs etc, but you are serieosly deluded if you think they should take any notice of you.
The problem comes where you shout stupid advice from the sidelines on the sunday morning at the top of your voice. Sooner or later, someone's gonna loose their temper with you.
I spot the problem now Llig. You obviously know the meaning of the word 'delusion' but you seem to use it, either in a situation when you should use 'mistaken', or importantly, when what you are saying is 'you disagree with my strongly held beliefs, therefore you must be wrong'. I have the greatest respect for your views and I am under no illusion that you are a very fine musician and a great exponent and ambassador of this great musical tradition. However, please accept that sometimes equally talented and enthusiastic people might have a different perspective on life from yours. Worrying as it might be, sometimes they may be right, or at the very least that their argument is so well constructed that you respect their right to hold such an opinion. My main worry is that the sessions we all love become so elitist that less-than-brilliant players are afraid to turn up. Please let's not allow this to happen. If it does then I'm afraid WE will have been the authors of our own demise.
minstrel33, with all due respect you haven't been around here for long so are most likely unaware of tradpiper/jig/ionannas/wicked hackers past. I think you'll find that he is the one who constantly uses his imaginary credentials to try and make his opinions look credible. He is a troll. It is fair enough not being able to hold a tune together but professing to be an expert and using multiple threads to get the same old delusional points across wears you down - 3000 odd points later.
Minstrell, I'm agreeing with. And if I come across as saying you are wrong when I merely disagree with you, then I appologise. If I can quote myself from the opening post of the discussion I linked to earlier (it was two and a half years ago, but this business has been going on a lot longer than that):
"One of the things I always liked about coming here was that the advice stood on its own. Take it or leave it. It's never been personal, just abstract opinion. When the advice is bad, it's obvious. We argue about it and anyone watching from the sides can make up their own minds."
Ah Steve, Im glad you've entered the building. Being true to my word I tried to buy your CD from your website but it just shows a blank screen. Tell me please, where can I get it without have to order it from my local music shop? Of course I can exert the goat-whackers revenge of accompanying you to my hearts content. Only kidding I really want it.
I mostly listen to solo pipers, fiddlers or duets (pipes/fiddle, pipes/concertina) and sean nos singers. I don't really go in for most of the bands. I'll occasionally listen to some Planxty or whatever, but for me it's all about the pipes.
I'm the same way with blues, I really only like the solo guitar/voice combination. I don't think there is anything wrong with it and not liking groups doesn't mean you don't like traditional music.
Minstrel, my website has been dead for around two years though I'm planning to resurrect it shortly. I need three weeks of bad weather. If you PM me your address I'll see what I can do about the CD. I have been found to be very safe by everyone who's ever done that. Some of my playing is up on the National Harmonica League website http://harmonica.co.uk under Music Downloads. Don't tell anyone else I told you this. Please. You can get to hate yourself, you know.
Traditional music is not solo. Traditional music has lots of solo performers. It also has lots of duets, trios, quartets and so on. The vast majority of diddley music recordings are not solo recordings and the vast majority of sessions are not solo players. Probably none, actually. But if you just like the solo stuff that's just fine. I like it myself too as it happens. But very few people will argue that Coleman /Planxty/Bothies are not traditional. Well, one bloke perhaps. There's always one, innit.
Interesting point you raise steve; what is traditional and how long does something need to take place before it becomes traditional? Basically, the tradition as we have it handed down is a solo art form . yes the modern version of this tradition encompasses bands, sessions etc, but these are a modern 20th century innovations. You can argue all you like, but if you actually study the subject you will find that according to all known sources I am correct .
Colman was certainly not traditional in his day! a very innovative fiddler, witness the supposed almost universal admiration and adoption of aspects of his style amongst Musicians in Ireland leading to a perceived decline in regional styles.
Of course Planxty and the bothy are not traditional! They play traditional music right enough but certainly not in a traditional manner.,They were very innovative for their time. Its true there music has entered the tradition to such an extent that the average weekend trad musician might well think that they 'are' the tradition, but fortunately there are enough folk with a deeper understanding of the old ways and with enough respect for those ways to preserve those aspects of the tradition in its purer form.
It takes merely one generation for innovation to become tradition...
I can argue all I like but I'd rather just let you carry on by yerself. By your reckoning we'd all be sitting here fretting about the fact that hardly anything we listen to or play is traditional. It's a word, old chap, a mere word. I recommend you don't try to usurp it to fit your own incredibly narrow world view. It's a good job you're not in charge of anything.
You misunderstand, Im a great fan of the Bothy band they were some of the first recorded Irish music that I heard. They were the most exciting thing around at the time, and IMO still haven't been surpassed by a Long way. None of the modern crop of bands can approach them IMO. I dont know what you listen to steve, but I listen to the pure drop, such as Bobby Casey, solo, Paddy Canney, solo, Seamus Ennis ; solo, Pat Mitchel;solo, Willie Clancy; solo...etc etc . Its not because its any better, or purer or superior etc etc, but because thats what interests me, thats what I enjoy, thats what I aspire to.
Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Stravinsky, Vaughan-Williams, Ravel, Schumann, Chopin, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak. In diddey I have many a CD that never gets put on. My listening is more or less confined to listening to the blokes sitting in the pub with me round the table of a Friday night. Or the Bothies on the motorway. I don't aspire to any of it. I aspire to having fun.
Do I Like ITM ?
Do I Like ITM ?
I am still new to this genre , and new to the fiddle . In my search to find music to listen to , I have found that I am a little closed minded to the different recordings that are out there.
Mostly I listen to solo fiddle recordings of tunes , when I hear singing or drums and even some of the more popular ITM bands.
I just do not like it.
So what gives ? , Should I just listen to it until I become acclimated to it ? Do you want me to give you examples of what I like and do not like ?
Cheers
John
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by doley50
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I don't think there's a law about what kind of music you have to listen to, or am I missing something?
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by minstrel33
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I don't think you have a problem.
Many people start out listening to popular 'ITM' (ugh) bands and take years to progress to listening to solo fiddle recordings. Well done for finding a short cut.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by DaveL35
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
No
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by Gringo
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Sturgeon's Law applies. If you hear something you like, listen to it, learn it, play it. If it's part of the 90%, let it go by.
Just be willing to hear it again in a few years, you might find that you change your mind as you hear more.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
The rules are simple, just as in most aspects of life. With ITM, as with any type of music, you listen to what you enjoy. BUT, be aware of certain things:
1. Don't close your mind to other variations of your type of music. Even if you don't like them other equally devoted individuals might.
2. Enjoy your listening, but be aware that as time passes your taste may change.
3. This is the most important. Don't fall into the trap of believing that your taste is somehow superior to other people's. We all have our own views on what makes up ITM, please respect other people's right to like something different from you - and they might even like other instruments than the fiddle.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by minstrel33
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Ask yourself, "*Why* do I like this...and *why* do I dislike that?" That may give you some insights.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by nicholas
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
There's only two types of music. Good music and bad music. I've discovered a long time ago that I like good music and most everyone else is listening to crap. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by shanty
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
If you like being alone, you'll be in fine company.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by Toppish
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Life is too short to waste on listening to stuff you don't like.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by gam
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Yes, give us examples of what you like and do not like.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by ...
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
How do you find being in a session ?
( After all, that is what this site is about. )
There's a whole different feel to a session then a band.
Or would you rather just hear, and play, a solo instrument ?
Whatever your answer, you do seem to have some good taste already, as shanty suggests.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Yes, the best advise is to like whatever it is you like but don't automatically shut out everything else(there's a lot out there- the world's BIG- never stop growing). If interested in playing with others try to find like minded individuals who are at least in the same ball park as you musically (or not, if the only goal is to 'play with others' although I wouldn't compromise, much, my enjoyment of music just to 'play with others'--I've done that in the past--it can kill your spirit). On the other hand you needn't play with anyone else if you don't want to. Maybe you don't like "ITM". So what? Donnaworry about the label. Enjoy your music.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by shanty
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I like this thread...
I listen to solo fiddle, solo pipes , some duets and occasional trios, all pure drop, mostly old recordings. I have the odd modern recording, [post 1980] If by some strange chance something comes on with a song, I FF to the next track. I'm interested in the tunes, and the old players.
If a singer starts up at a session, I wait patiently till they finish, but Im there for the tunes...Do we welcome singers? yes, Bodhran players too, and spoons.... The very idea that a spoon player or Bodhran would not be welcome does not occur at all, to anyone. It is completely alien to the tradition as we know it here in this part of Clare. Mind its pretty rural round here!
Sounds like your into trad mr OP.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I think a connection is developing between this discussion and the preceding one about Sean Nos singers.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
You like pure drop (though your understanding of it, going from your post, is suspect to say the least) yet you welcome spoons. You are clearly two different people, both completely unsorted.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Your right lazyhound, the threads tonight seem to blur together... ..
Of course we welcome spoons?! The very idea that they might not be welcome is completely alien. Now if the player is awful, then fair enough, he might find himself trick riding a bike in the yard, but that applies to any instrument played badly and insistently.... Its about sensitivity to session dynamics and simple common manners.
You simply don't understand Steve. For example the spoon player, and singer at our local session, is the sister of a fine fiddler, and his 2 brothers a great fluter and a banjo player, all sired by one of Ireland's finest Singers of his Generation.... Another friend, who plays spoons is Internationally recognized as one of Ireland's Finest Whistle and flute players ..... The very idea that these folk would be unwelcome because of the instrument they chose to play is ludicrous. The local Bodhrán player is married to a top notch Fluter . Some of these folk have been playing 40 -50 yrs.... This is a rural, tightly knit community in the heart of Co Clare Steve. The session is open , welcoming, an exceedingly high standard and attitudes likesome I meet here would receive short thrift indeed.
I have every sympathy and understanding for folk stuck out on the margins, plagued by thumpers and strummers who know not the wherewithall of the music, but please, dont assume that its like that everywhere because it is not.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
"Short thrift?"
Is that like a midget who doesn't like spending money?
Possibly the phrase you were looking for was "short shrift."
This has been a message from your local Pedantic Squad. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
good man yerself, wh.
Sounds great. County Clare - love it!
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
John, Have you seen these recordings http://ceolalainn.blogspot.com/
Bobby Casey is the Master still unequaled IMO
Cheers SS, I will try and remember that! Jeez if I didn't have spell check.... shame it cant figure out what I mean to say!
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
"Another friend, who plays spoons is Internationally recognized as one of Ireland's Finest Whistle and flute players."
Why do they play the spoons with you then. Seems an odd session, internationally renowned tune players playing the spoons ... and you on your guitar as the glue holding it together? You're right, I don't understand, but at least it's an exceedingly high standard of spoon playing and strumming. And it is open and welcoming. (at least to people of your high standard - with those that aren't, being sent on their bikes)
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by ...
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Is The Wicked Hacker's session listed here? If not, can he list it, please, so that we can all check it out?
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Nearly chocked on my tea there....
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by bogman
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
LOL, your joking right?! and invite hourdes of strummers and thumpers!
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Up Rineen!
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
"LOL, your joking right?! and invite hourdes of strummers and thumpers!"
'Hourdes'? Is that somewhere near Lourdes?
But your bio states that you're a strummer too, TWH, and you've just come on all dewy-eyed about your local thumpers!
What's the harm in posting a link here unless the session you've described only exists in your head?
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Do ye have any links to Leitrim sessions, by the way?
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I say invite 'em all--strummers, thwackers, goat thumpers, hackers, hedge trimmers, spooners, and egg thingy shakers.
Just make sure they all bring their metronomes along with soze they can all play the same speed together.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
"Do ye have any links to Leitrim sessions, by the way?"
Do you mean additional to the one's I've already posted?
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Aargh, 'ones' not 'one's'! I'm turning into a greengrocer!
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
OP john, you could no better than listen to Uilleann pipers for inspiration, check out Pat Mitchel, Johnny Doran, Tommy Kearney. I like up and coming piper Barry Kerr, hes on you tube.
Yeah flosser, these sessions that ban all thumpers! Do they put it up on a poster?; ''' no dogs ,thumpers or spoon 'benders .. No travelers too probably....
Im only havin a laugh, IMO you take yourself too seriously flosser.
No Im certainly not putting the session up here! Jeez we might get folk like you there!
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
So it's not an open session then?
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by ...
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Spoons, stummers, goat humpers and metro-gnomes - here we go again.
Why must you folks engage the hickeyed whacker / tradpiper / Iownananus / jig etc?
Gluttons for punishment?
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Oh, no, Will Evans,
I certainly don't take myself too seriously, but also I don't live in your suburb of Narnia.
I'll be down in East Clare over the next couple of weeks checking out session pubs. Where should I look for you? Pepper's? Lena's? The Village Inn?
By the way, if you think Barry Kerr is an 'up and coming piper' where have you been for the last ten years?
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Don't expect to find him in the session he describes unless you happen to be visiting East Cloud Cuckoo Land.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by bogman
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Sigh....just when you think it's safe to get back in the water....that infamous character shows up again with a new moniker.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Careful, he's a martial arts expert too (has that got anything to do with making people do "trick riding a bike in the back yard"?). But give the guy a break, he can't can't be all that bad if he's focused on the music pretty much all day every day since 1984. He is someone so dedicated as to even describe his children as mere diversions.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by ...
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
"No Im certainly not putting the session up here! Jeez we might get folk like you there! "
I'll have to remember this the next time we hear you blithering on about how the trad session is a completely open and inclusive institution.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Jig, if you like, you can hide behind your: "So as to avoid tedious suspensions Im not engaging with certain members here in subjects that are not directly related to the music and in fact may well not respond to their provocation or comments at all."
However, As a direct question, is your session an open session?
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by ...
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
The point is, from all anyone's seen of him up there online, he can't' play. One fine day this pontificator-in-chief will put something up there that demonstrates that his preachifying here has actually got some substance. He is, as yet, seriously lacking in this department is this guru of ours. p*ss or get off the pot, hickedwackernnejiginaneanustraddoodah. Prove you can play. Some of us don't believe yer, mate. I hold not my breath.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
He has already proved emphatically that he can't Steve, on that SoundLantern site that was going for a while and with the mysteriously now not working links on his profile here. That's part of the reason the multi personalities, thread crossing, name-dropping, bragging and general bull- pooing gets on so many t!ts here, and brings about suspensions for folk who don't want naive or innocent visitors to this site to be fed with crap, much of it damaging crap.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by bogman
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I really get frustrated when the threads get more personal. We ALL love ITM, and that answers the original question. 'Am I a better player than you?' and 'are you good enough to express an opinion?' seem more like questions for the playground than on a 'serious' forum like this. If I can draw on a football analogy to demonstrate my point, I love watching Barcelona, Manchester United, etc play but I also enjoy the enthusiasm of the pub-team players on a Sunday morning, Surely, if ITM is to flourish, then every encouragement must be given to ALL players. How else will they improve if they are not allowed to play at sessions and mix with better players? It all seems so obvious to me, or am I missing something?
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by minstrel33
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I agree. And you can shout all the advice you want at the players on the telly and scream that the ref needs specs etc, but you are serieosly deluded if you think they should take any notice of you.
The problem comes where you shout stupid advice from the sidelines on the sunday morning at the top of your voice. Sooner or later, someone's gonna loose their temper with you.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by ...
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I spot the problem now Llig. You obviously know the meaning of the word 'delusion' but you seem to use it, either in a situation when you should use 'mistaken', or importantly, when what you are saying is 'you disagree with my strongly held beliefs, therefore you must be wrong'. I have the greatest respect for your views and I am under no illusion that you are a very fine musician and a great exponent and ambassador of this great musical tradition. However, please accept that sometimes equally talented and enthusiastic people might have a different perspective on life from yours. Worrying as it might be, sometimes they may be right, or at the very least that their argument is so well constructed that you respect their right to hold such an opinion. My main worry is that the sessions we all love become so elitist that less-than-brilliant players are afraid to turn up. Please let's not allow this to happen. If it does then I'm afraid WE will have been the authors of our own demise.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by minstrel33
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
minstrel33, with all due respect you haven't been around here for long so are most likely unaware of tradpiper/jig/ionannas/wicked hackers past. I think you'll find that he is the one who constantly uses his imaginary credentials to try and make his opinions look credible. He is a troll. It is fair enough not being able to hold a tune together but professing to be an expert and using multiple threads to get the same old delusional points across wears you down - 3000 odd points later.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by bogman
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Minstrell, I'm agreeing with. And if I come across as saying you are wrong when I merely disagree with you, then I appologise. If I can quote myself from the opening post of the discussion I linked to earlier (it was two and a half years ago, but this business has been going on a lot longer than that):
"One of the things I always liked about coming here was that the advice stood on its own. Take it or leave it. It's never been personal, just abstract opinion. When the advice is bad, it's obvious. We argue about it and anyone watching from the sides can make up their own minds."
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/18142/
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# Posted on April 5th 2010 by ...
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Thanks for the tip bogman. I agree I've only been around for a few months and obviously still have a lot to learn about the personalities.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by minstrel33
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Thanks, Llig, spoken like a true gentleman
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by minstrel33
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Ah Steve, Im glad you've entered the building. Being true to my word I tried to buy your CD from your website but it just shows a blank screen. Tell me please, where can I get it without have to order it from my local music shop? Of course I can exert the goat-whackers revenge of accompanying you to my hearts content. Only kidding I really want it.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by minstrel33
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Bronstein - Christy Barry.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by Kenny
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/524
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by Kenny
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
... and there's no doubting his ability on flute and whistle.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by Kenny
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I mostly listen to solo pipers, fiddlers or duets (pipes/fiddle, pipes/concertina) and sean nos singers. I don't really go in for most of the bands. I'll occasionally listen to some Planxty or whatever, but for me it's all about the pipes.
I'm the same way with blues, I really only like the solo guitar/voice combination. I don't think there is anything wrong with it and not liking groups doesn't mean you don't like traditional music.
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by misterpatrick
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Actually misterpatrick, traditional music is solo, duets etc the band stuff is modern, so its the other way round surely!
# Posted on April 5th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Minstrel, my website has been dead for around two years though I'm planning to resurrect it shortly. I need three weeks of bad weather. If you PM me your address I'll see what I can do about the CD. I have been found to be very safe by everyone who's ever done that. Some of my playing is up on the National Harmonica League website http://harmonica.co.uk under Music Downloads. Don't tell anyone else I told you this. Please. You can get to hate yourself, you know.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Traditional music is not solo. Traditional music has lots of solo performers. It also has lots of duets, trios, quartets and so on. The vast majority of diddley music recordings are not solo recordings and the vast majority of sessions are not solo players. Probably none, actually. But if you just like the solo stuff that's just fine. I like it myself too as it happens. But very few people will argue that Coleman /Planxty/Bothies are not traditional. Well, one bloke perhaps. There's always one, innit.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Mind you, I could have misread that post, looking at it again. The punctuation was not exactly of the standard ilk.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Interesting point you raise steve; what is traditional and how long does something need to take place before it becomes traditional? Basically, the tradition as we have it handed down is a solo art form . yes the modern version of this tradition encompasses bands, sessions etc, but these are a modern 20th century innovations. You can argue all you like, but if you actually study the subject you will find that according to all known sources I am correct .
Colman was certainly not traditional in his day! a very innovative fiddler, witness the supposed almost universal admiration and adoption of aspects of his style amongst Musicians in Ireland leading to a perceived decline in regional styles.
Of course Planxty and the bothy are not traditional! They play traditional music right enough but certainly not in a traditional manner.,They were very innovative for their time. Its true there music has entered the tradition to such an extent that the average weekend trad musician might well think that they 'are' the tradition, but fortunately there are enough folk with a deeper understanding of the old ways and with enough respect for those ways to preserve those aspects of the tradition in its purer form.
It takes merely one generation for innovation to become tradition...
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
I can argue all I like but I'd rather just let you carry on by yerself. By your reckoning we'd all be sitting here fretting about the fact that hardly anything we listen to or play is traditional. It's a word, old chap, a mere word. I recommend you don't try to usurp it to fit your own incredibly narrow world view. It's a good job you're not in charge of anything.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
You misunderstand, Im a great fan of the Bothy band they were some of the first recorded Irish music that I heard. They were the most exciting thing around at the time, and IMO still haven't been surpassed by a Long way. None of the modern crop of bands can approach them IMO. I dont know what you listen to steve, but I listen to the pure drop, such as Bobby Casey, solo, Paddy Canney, solo, Seamus Ennis ; solo, Pat Mitchel;solo, Willie Clancy; solo...etc etc . Its not because its any better, or purer or superior etc etc, but because thats what interests me, thats what I enjoy, thats what I aspire to.
jeez man its just music, enjoy what you enjoy !
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Stravinsky, Vaughan-Williams, Ravel, Schumann, Chopin, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak. In diddey I have many a CD that never gets put on. My listening is more or less confined to listening to the blokes sitting in the pub with me round the table of a Friday night. Or the Bothies on the motorway. I don't aspire to any of it. I aspire to having fun.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Do I Like ITM ?
Not diddey David Hamilton. Diddley.
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Steve Shaw